Discussion of Abuses and Punishments in Radical Scientology

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Karen#1
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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:06 am

Thanks for the info for Amy, I'll write her when I'm done.


Barbie Doll,
I talked with Amy.
She will be happy to talk to you
to answer your questions ~~



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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by barbiedoll » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:11 am

Karen#1 wrote:
Thanks for the info for Amy, I'll write her when I'm done.


Barbie Doll,
I talked with Amy.
She will be happy to talk to you
to answer your questions ~~



:::::I am working on next post to get back to the thread main subject:::::::
Wow, thank you. And please tell her I'm enjoying her book, and her honesty. She's an amazing lady.

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by barbiedoll » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:18 am

chantal wrote:barbiedoll
I love your pet theory, and maybe it would take someone like that standing up to that little corn on the COB to make others who are witnessing bravery rather than the fear he's instilled in everyone to stand up together and say "It's enough, we're not going to be afraid anymore and we won't be abused". I believe it would take a major coup from the 'insiders' to really get the authorities attention and to put and end to it. I know when Karen's son passed away, they weren't even going to give him a service of any kind. But through strength and persistence from Karen's email and pressure from the media, they changed their minds. I applaud and admire Karen's strength and courage in standing up to them for Alex. Marc & Claire Headly are great. They now have what was so wrongfully denied them--a beautiful family and freedom. And speaking out, helping others--just like everyone here and on other sites. The best way to know the real truth, is from people who experienced it all fist hand.
Chantal, I enjoyed making my little joke, but one thing I hate is when people look back at certain points in history and say, "I could have handled those Nazi's" or "I would have told that slave owner to kiss my ass.." etc. It's easy to sit behind my computer and say what I would have done to D.M. if he hit me. Clearly Marc Headley was just about to hit him back when he got hit, but he backed off when the guards got involved. Still, DM saw he was going to fight back, and if I remember correctly, never hit him again, whereas he seemed to bully Mark Yager until he got tired. I have dealt with bullies before, and usually they don't respect you unless you stand up to them, so I don't know what would happen. I am curious though, if people have inside stories. I have never heard anyone say that DM has hit women (he has other women do that for him) and maybe he doesn't hit black people because it is complicated for different reasons. But I have no way to prove this.

I also applaud the courage of Karen, and others.

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by chantal » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:20 am

Barbiedoll, I know what you mean. I don't know either what I would've done either if I was in any of their shoes and I would never in any way pass judgement on anyone else's decision. I've also dealt with bullies in my life and with abuse. As a child, my brother severely abused me for years,so, as an adult I've put up with abusive men, always believing it was my fault which is a little like being brainwashed. No matter how often people would tell me to leave, I wouldn't. Instead I'd avoid them so they couldn't judge. I guess I treated them like SP's in a way. It makes me understand a bit more why people do what they do and I do my very best not to judge others. No matter who you are in this world, you're always searching for something more and beautiful promises of a better life--like $cientology offers--sounds real good. What needs to happen now is that the one responsibe--David Misgarbage--needs to be stopped.
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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Tenor » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:39 am

Karen#1 wrote:
Yes, It is a "hi-jacked religion. It is preposterous mockery of everything a religion
should be.
Image

Alexander just before he joined the "Sea Organization". He was lied to. "Much more time with his father Heber" he was told. In the Sea Organization for 16 years. Supposedly dead of a drug overdose at 27, after being manipulated by the "Church" to disconnect from me.
Karen #1,

From your very extensive experience, personally trained by L. Ron Hubbard to the highest standards and levels of auditing and case supervision (and also having suffered certainly as much pain and degredation as any), are my assumptions (in the paragraph below accurate)? That is, how much has the technology changed, how much has the organization changed, since LRH left active management and oversight in the late 1970's?

The Co$ perverts and abuses the right to free exercise. By changing the technology (even the Grade Chart, the funadamental template of theory), the management of the Co$ has destroyed the functionality of religious technology. By changing the organizational structure and function, it has destroyed the delivery. Changing the substance of the Grade Chart and changing the organizational function, has brought about a destruction of the communication necessary. It has ripped the guts out of scientology and polluted the waters around it. The church has changed from what used to be a social atmosphere where free exercise was possible, into an atmosphere of deception and overt hostility. These degradations of scientology in practice, and in form, in effect destroy the right to free exercise.

TIA,
Tenor.
Last edited by Tenor on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Tenor » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:16 am

barbiedoll wrote: Chantal, I enjoyed making my little joke, but one thing I hate is when people look back at certain points in history and say, "I could have handled those Nazi's" or "I would have told that slave owner to kiss my ass.." etc. It's easy to sit behind my computer and say what I would have done to D.M. if he hit me. Clearly Marc Headley was just about to hit him back when he got hit, but he backed off when the guards got involved. Still, DM saw he was going to fight back, and if I remember correctly, never hit him again, whereas he seemed to bully Mark Yager until he got tired. I have dealt with bullies before, and usually they don't respect you unless you stand up to them, so I don't know what would happen. I am curious though, if people have inside stories. I have never heard anyone say that DM has hit women (he has other women do that for him) and maybe he doesn't hit black people because it is complicated for different reasons. But I have no way to prove this.

I also applaud the courage of Karen, and others.
Barbiedoll,

Your posts and all this thread are very interesting. Your observations express some of my (ahem) "sentiments on some matters". I do wish to point something out: you never allowed yourself to be put in a position subordinate to such lunacy as the Co$ has become. (Me, too.) (Stormin' Norman agrees with us in this, and he's one of those names you don't need to preface or suffix or document all that much, and Anonymous is averse to walking into crosshairs, too. Sensible people.) There are those who apparently wanted to get the training and whatever else was left of scientology, and stuck it out, because in their minds, the Co$ was the only place to get that. That was incorrect, but it may have appeared that way to them. I wonder still, how to regard people who wanted training, or believed (as some still do) that the Co$ could be rescued, somehow. I know many just walked away. I'm wondering if I should feel guilty, actually, but I just didn't see any way to overcome the idiocies. I'm very grateful to people like Karen #1 and the guy who set up this website.

Tenor.

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Dorothy » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:27 pm

Tenor wrote:I'm wondering if I should feel guilty, actually, but I just didn't see any way to overcome the idiocies.
IMO you should not feel guilty. The fact that you think you might need to feel guilty means you have some work to do, somewhere. I'm sure it will come to you, just keep doing what you're doing if it seems to be working.*

* my unprofessional and un-asked for advice :lol: .
“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
― Hannah Arendt

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by barbiedoll » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:06 pm

Tenor wrote:
barbiedoll wrote: Chantal, I enjoyed making my little joke, but one thing I hate is when people look back at certain points in history and say, "I could have handled those Nazi's" or "I would have told that slave owner to kiss my ass.." etc. It's easy to sit behind my computer and say what I would have done to D.M. if he hit me. Clearly Marc Headley was just about to hit him back when he got hit, but he backed off when the guards got involved. Still, DM saw he was going to fight back, and if I remember correctly, never hit him again, whereas he seemed to bully Mark Yager until he got tired. I have dealt with bullies before, and usually they don't respect you unless you stand up to them, so I don't know what would happen. I am curious though, if people have inside stories. I have never heard anyone say that DM has hit women (he has other women do that for him) and maybe he doesn't hit black people because it is complicated for different reasons. But I have no way to prove this.

I also applaud the courage of Karen, and others.
Barbiedoll,

Your posts and all this thread are very interesting. Your observations express some of my (ahem) "sentiments on some matters". I do wish to point something out: you never allowed yourself to be put in a position subordinate to such lunacy as the Co$ has become. (Me, too.) (Stormin' Norman agrees with us in this, and he's one of those names you don't need to preface or suffix or document all that much, and Anonymous is averse to walking into crosshairs, too. Sensible people.) There are those who apparently wanted to get the training and whatever else was left of scientology, and stuck it out, because in their minds, the Co$ was the only place to get that. That was incorrect, but it may have appeared that way to them. I wonder still, how to regard people who wanted training, or believed (as some still do) that the Co$ could be rescued, somehow. I know many just walked away. I'm wondering if I should feel guilty, actually, but I just didn't see any way to overcome the idiocies. I'm very grateful to people like Karen #1 and the guy who set up this website.

Tenor.
Hey Tenor,

Thanks for this, and thanks to Chantal for that beautiful post. I think the abuse in Scientology for many of us is a metaphor or example of something that we all experience in one way or another taken to the extreme. I think you should be kind to yourself, I don't know how far you went in the religion, but it my sense, as an outsider that there are different levels of participation. Some people feel like they have just wasted a lot of time and money, others are involved to extent that constitutes serious crimes against humanity and should be put before a tribunal.

I think some of those earlier exercises (the staring for hours, talking to ashtrays, etc) create a euphoria that feels like spiritual enlightenment and, like cocaine, you keep chasing the high, trying to recreate that experience. I think LRH was brilliant (and evil) in the sense that he really did understand and pursue profound ways to manipulate people. The work he did with Aleister Crowley's group, I feel, was the connection point between the kinds of personal growth movement/Science of Mind teaching that was going on in the 50's (Think and Grow Rich), with esoteric spirituality and mysticism. Carolyn Myss talks about the fact that we are starved for a sense of mysticism in this culture, and I think this drives us to find it anywhere we can, and Hubbard was aware of this. Many of us attracted to Scientology are genuine spiritual seekers who really would like to know the mysteries of life - and if there wasn't all this stuff on the internet and in the media, and I walked by a Scientology office and saw something that said, "Know Yourself, Know Life" I'd be in there signing up in a heartbeat.

In the early nineties, I took a weekend course that was est-like (The Forum), and I enjoyed it, I like the intensity of an experience like that, the way people bond in a shared experience - you come out feeling like you've survived something together. But I took an advanced course, and it started to become problematic as we were pressured to bring in other recruits and at the advanced levels there seemed to be more focus on humiliating individual people in order to encourage "breakthroughs". I was putting pressure on friends of mine to "fix their lives" and the only way they could was by taking the workshop I'd taken. I finally realized that the leader was a narcissistic and destructive jerk and I choose to leave. Once I did, I had that sinking feeling of "how did I get here, what was I thinking?" when actually it had all started out with a desire to know myself better and work on some pain in my life.

What's going on in CoS right now, from the books I'm reading, is something else entirely. The idea of people being separated from spouses (even within the organization) for years on end, not to mention family, just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm reading Amy Scobee's book right now, where DM, on a whim, asks a woman to go get a pair of clipper during a meeting. When she returns, he instructs her to shave off all of Marc Yager's hair. He doesn't give a reason. Then he begins laughing at Mike's humiliation in front of everyone.

The shock for me is not that there are people like DM. (I actually am very curious about psychopathology in boys and how men like DM are made. Is it biological, spiritual, mental crisis, or all three?) But the fact is, DM will be DM. The question is why do so many of us give our power over to men like that? How does he get away with it over and over?

I'm rambling a bit here, but my overall point is, I think there is some major brainwashing happening here, maybe some of the most profound on the planet, so don't underestimate what you were up again when you do your self-forgiveness work. And the way Sea Org recruiters go after children, knowing they are the most vulnerable of all because their minds are still forming, makes me sick - grooming children for abuse, I think there should be a federal law that no one can join the Sea Org until they are 18. (With Tommy Davis saying in interviews when asked about recruiting kids: "We don't discriminate based on age". Either do molesters, Tommy, you sick mother $*%&)$r.)

Add to that the constant sleep deprivation, the fear of punishment, the living in a state of emergency, the separation from loved ones, the extreme cruelty followed by periods of "relief" are all part of what keeps someone mesmerized and in a state of mystification, like governments that control their population through a state of terror.

Anyway, just some thoughts. In the end, I think we are all very fragile, and need to be treated with care, no matter how strong we think we are.

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by barbiedoll » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:59 pm

It's really horrifying to read the abuse of Marc Yager in Amy Scobee's book and the way he lies to cover it up, like an abused partner. At one point, she writes that DM told a woman to run Marc off the road while they were in the car, and she tried but he jumped out of the way and into some bushes which harmed him! I have no way to prove this, but I feel DM abuse of Marc is not just cruel, but Anti-Semitic as well. There is something really disturbing about the way he is singled out for humiliation over and over again that makes me think of Nazi brutality. She writes that Marc was on 24/7 surveillance during the 90's. Is Marc still with the church, has he told his story?

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:06 am

I have been avoiding doing an abuse posting on Heber Jentzsch, the father on my son Alexander Jentzsch, but I think it is important that his story is told on this thread.

David Miscavige hates Heber. He hated him for being popular, he hated him for having better communication skills, he hated him for being "old" and communicating the "wrong" image of the Church. Heber is "stupid". Heber knows too much. Heber has been beaten, punched, humilated often by punk Miscavige who was too busy "owning" Heber, locking him in SP Hole, having him steam clean buses on his feet 12 hours a day than letting him be a FATHER.

When Alexander took to prescription drugs, he did not have a father because Miscavige made damned sure Alexander had no father, because Heber has been in prison in SP hole for going on 8 years.
I have the following information from veteran RTC members Miscavige's inner circle. Heber bore the brunt of Miscavige's wrath and temper tantrums through the years. NOTE: some 32 RTC Sea org members have fled the insanity and joined Marty and Mike, (leaving less than 12 RTC behind).

Mike Rinder reported that Miscavige had physically punched and assaulted Heber on at least 10 occasions. That was only in full view of Rinder, not how many times Miscavige beat and assaulted Heber when Rinder was not present.

Heber came from a polygamous family ~~ the ex-communicated off-shoots of the Church of LDS. His father had 8 wives. 52 kids. These kids were used as a work-force for the family, manual labor in the fields and so on and beatings occurred regularly. His father used an "electric shock" technique by prodding Heber and his brothers with spark plugs (i.e. cattle prod). Heber told these stories of early polygamy life socially at a dinner here and there, so was not something Heber kept under wraps. That was life back then. A horrendous BULLY male figure who punched on pain and suffering was something Heber was conditioned to since childhood.

Here's a picture of Miscavige showing affection and kindness to Heber (the usual love bombing before the Reptilian Predator with full venom strikes into the blood veins)...
Image

David Miscavige and Heber Jentzsch back in the day.

Miscavige had dolls made in the likeness of Heber These were very elaborate reproductions that looked like ventriloquists dolls. Miscavige would make Heber sit with the doll on his lap and Miscavige would address himself to the doll instead of talking to Heber directly. This was to demonstrate the “fact” that Miscavige thought Heber “wooden” and “unresponsive.” (Anyone who knows Heber can attest to how ridiculous this is). It is all part of Miscavige’s Joking & Degrading and constant denigration of people around him, especially those he considered were some form of threat (and Heber’s popularity with staff and public was a very real threat in Miscavige’s eyes).

The dolls were even flown to the UK for the IAS event where Heber endured endless cruel bull baiting at the hands of Miscavige. I only saw Heber snap once, when after hours of Miscavige brand taunting and belittling ™, Miscavige squirted Heber’s face and glasses with contact lens fluid and then blew powdered coffee creamer into his face. This is the level of behavior of the so called “leader” of Scientology
.

In all the glamor and smoke and mirrors of the "IAS events", cruelty and ABUSE occurred behind the scenes. Heber, Mike Rinder and Guillame Lesevre were assigned to Mest work. That means heavy hard manual labor for long hours. They dressed in tuxedos for the event, spoke on stage and then returned immediately to boiler suits to obey the iron fist of psycho Miscavige. These executives were humiliated by having to do this work in full view of St. Hill Sea org members at the eating/berthing facility down the road from the Manor. It is called "The Stables." Even though the month was NOVEMBER (freezing cold in Great Britain) Heber and was thrown in the lake there every day as punishment along with Mike Rinder and Guillame Lesevre. One day Heber slipped on a log and injured himself quite badly. Immediately Miscavige BLAMED this on Heber's out ethics.

After years of persecution, Miscavige is now touting Heber's loyalty to his Religion, once again love bombing him since the death of his son Alexander Jentzsch that Heber was never permitted to be a father to.
Heber was treated like some piece of furniture, a punching bag, a piece of cattle that Miscagive ruled over entirely, his schedule, his ability to see his son, his ability to parent, his ability to walk outside of SP hole, his ability to communicate or not communicate. Heber's cell phone was confiscated and before Alexander jentzsch was forced to disconnect from me, my son reported that when he called INT Base, he was rarely able to talk to Heber. He was put on hold for extensive periods of time by the Receptionist and then told "Heber was not available."


Image
Heber and Debbie Cook Back in the day.


~~ to be continued
Last edited by Karen#1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:27 am

From the Wayback Machine.
The "Church" embarrassed that Mike Rinder had fled, continue to have a website naming him as Church Spokesman for at least 1 year even more (when the entire Internet knew he had departed)


Image
Image




I will be doing a seperate post on the abuse and beatings of Mike Rinder, but in the meantime, I wanted to post this 2 minute clip released by Mark Bunker's "Knowledge Report" just up on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8loflgs ... r_embedded

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by chantal » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:12 am

Wow...and I'm sure some of that time was spent trying to get him back, right?

Karen, how old is Alexander in that picture in the last few posts? He is such a handsome young man with a beautiful smile that I'm sure lit up a room when he walked in.
I've been torn apart
Put back together
With a couple of pieces in wrong
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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by barbiedoll » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:46 pm

Karen, are you able to confirm whether or not Tommy Davis has left the church? I'm wondering if they are "Mike Rinder"ing him, waiting for him to change his mind and come back. If you can't or would prefer not to comment, I understand.

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:59 pm

Karen #1,

From your very extensive experience, personally trained by L. Ron Hubbard to the highest standards and levels of auditing and case supervision (and also having suffered certainly as much pain and degredation as any), are my assumptions (in the paragraph below accurate)? That is, how much has the technology changed, how much has the organization changed, since LRH left active management and oversight in the late 1970's?

The Co$ perverts and abuses the right to free exercise. By changing the technology (even the Grade Chart, the funadamental template of theory), the management of the Co$ has destroyed the functionality of religious technology. By changing the organizational structure and function, it has destroyed the delivery. Changing the substance of the Grade Chart and changing the organizational function, has brought about a destruction of the communication necessary. It has ripped the guts out of scientology and polluted the waters around it. The church has changed from what used to be a social atmosphere where free exercise was possible, into an atmosphere of deception and overt hostility. These degradations of scientology in practice, and in form, in effect destroy the right to free exercise.

TIA,
Tenor.


I am catching up on questions asked of me....

Tenor the current CoS is NOT a religion. It is an extortion racket shaking people down for money. It uses religion as a cover.
It uses terrorism tactics against those that speak out about its abuses.
Scientology Inc is at Warfare with one all.
Those inside are carefully indoctrinated in the THEM vs US culture.
Scientology pretends to be the safe harbor in a fortress while the gullibles are taught that it is a Mad and DANGEROUS world outside Scientology.

People KILL one another !
They electric shock each other in Institutions !
They go to War !
They have their reactive Minds vibrating and they are WOGS.
Pretending that the "Church" is a safe space, there is warfare within.....
Everyone rats on everyone with reports to "RTC" the Senior echelon
who file all these reports to use later for blackmail and attacking those who
whistle blow.
Scientologists attack other Scientologists, Sea Org members attack
other Sea org members with “Knowledge Reports.”
Writing up your beef in full detail calling it "misconduct" or violation of "POLICY".
Attacking the rest of the loyal flock with KRS.
Often these are broadcast by "ccs" or "carbon copies" to multiple terminals using Black propaganda techniques to malign a fellow Sea org Member or fellow Kool-Aid drinker.
A private
Knowledge Report on a husband/wife sexual issue is carbon copied to 15 Org personnel !
Character assassination of a fellow Scientologist by use of “Knowledge Reports” and cc every one and his dog !
And round and round it goes.
Warfare within. Warfare with all the WOGS and critics and whistle blowers.
Warfare of "Knowledge Reports" even getting children to rat on their parents siblings to snitch on siblings, Scientology business associates rat out on each other and everyone obsessively reports everything to the"CHURCH".
The Scientologists are imprisoned in the Church of Miscavology (Scientology Inc)
They are all jailhouse snitches and do not even realize it.

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Smurf » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:07 am

barbiedoll wrote:Karen, are you able to confirm whether or not Tommy Davis has left the church?
Tommy & his wife have routed out of the Sea Org.. that doesn't mean they left the church. They are now public Scientoliogists. Jessica would NEVER quit the church, because she would be disconnected from her mother and other relatives.

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