How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatees"?

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
User avatar
bparker230
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby bparker230 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:51 pm

I don't know of Hubbard ever saying that the soul itself can be frozen. The thetan can be trapped electronically or "stuck in an incident".
From what I understand LRH saying in OT3, if a body is frozen very quickly or instantly, the thetan is trapped in the body and unable to exteriorize.

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10003
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby Wieber » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:54 pm

bparker230 wrote:I don't know of Hubbard ever saying that the soul itself can be frozen. The thetan can be trapped electronically or "stuck in an incident".
From what I understand LRH saying in OT3, if a body is frozen very quickly or instantly, the thetan is trapped in the body and unable to exteriorize.


He also said that when people were being burned at the stake during the time of the inquisition or for being witches that the executioners would pack ice on the neck under the chin and on the chest so the "thetan" could not get out of the body and would fully experience the pain of the execution. (That may be in the PTS/SP course materials or it may have been a transcription from one of the lectures that was in one of Scientology's magazines. The only other thing I was exposed to around the time of getting that one was 'The Spirit of Man' congress lectures.)
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
Mark Twain

Image

User avatar
Smurf
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:10 am

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby Smurf » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:01 am

I'mglib wrote:Where did you get the idea that the souls were transported?
Another critic (who shall remain nameless) said so:

"You guys make some great points.

o If billions of souls were transported to Teegeak, it would have taken millions of DC-8s to get them here, and tens of thousands of Xenu workers to process them (simple math)."

User avatar
bparker230
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby bparker230 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:11 am

If "another critic" said that the souls, and not the bodies, of Xenu's victims were transported, then that's "fair use" for debate. Of course we are talking about LRH BS, but we are trying to be as "accurate" as we can about that, myself included of course.

curiosity
Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:56 am

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby curiosity » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:31 am

Here is a web page that has Hubbard's actual voice telling the Xenu story:

http://gawker.com/5037013/the-history-of-xenu-as-explained-by-l-ron-hubbard-himself-in-8-minutes

A Scientologist told me years ago that there is a Hubbard lecture about the between-lives area. The Scientologist told me that souls from Earth instinctively go to the between-lives processing areas after the bodies die where the souls are zapped electronically and placed into ice cubes. The ice cubes are put aboard UFOs which take them back to Earth where the cubes are dumped into the oceans. The ice cubes thaw which allows the souls to escape and seek out new bodies. The Scientologist claims to have witnessed a UFO once over the Pacific Ocean dumping ice cubes. I can't say that I'm highly familiar with all of the UFO literature, but from the bit that I've read I don't recall any other witnesses claiming to have seen a UFO dumping ice cubes (although I could be wrong).

One thing that caught my attention in Hubbard's Xenu lecture is that his first priority is to get Scientologists to "own" the planet, not save it. Somehow the planet will be saved when Scientologists "own" it. I really think he had the crazy goal of becoming Earth's ruler by getting Scientologists to "own" the Earth. He didn't just write 1950's space opera, I think he was living it in his own mind.

User avatar
bparker230
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby bparker230 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:47 am

Wieber wrote:
bparker230 wrote:I don't know of Hubbard ever saying that the soul itself can be frozen. The thetan can be trapped electronically or "stuck in an incident".
From what I understand LRH saying in OT3, if a body is frozen very quickly or instantly, the thetan is trapped in the body and unable to exteriorize.


He also said that when people were being burned at the stake during the time of the inquisition or for being witches that the executioners would pack ice on the neck under the chin and on the chest so the "thetan" could not get out of the body and would fully experience the pain of the execution. (That may be in the PTS/SP course materials or it may have been a transcription from one of the lectures that was in one of Scientology's magazines. The only other thing I was exposed to around the time of getting that one was 'The Spirit of Man' congress lectures.)


It is historically accurate that witches were burned, hanged, or drowned. What gets me is how Blubbard came up with the idea of ice packs. Oh, I forgot, LRH just pulled everything out of his arse. I don't know of any historic account of anyone being executed with the use of ice. I'll admit that as a $cientologist, I assumed that LRH got all of his info from his whole track and the whole tracks of many others. So I would have accepted LRH's statement that during the inquisition, the executioners would ice pack the witches, etc. for the purpose of maximizing the pain of the victim(thetan) while delaying the soul's exit from the body.

User avatar
bparker230
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby bparker230 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:13 am

curiosity wrote:Here is a web page that has Hubbard's actual voice telling the Xenu story:

http://gawker.com/5037013/the-history-of-xenu-as-explained-by-l-ron-hubbard-himself-in-8-minutes

A Scientologist told me years ago that there is a Hubbard lecture about the between-lives area. The Scientologist told me that souls from Earth instinctively go to the between-lives processing areas after the bodies die where the souls are zapped electronically and placed into ice cubes. The ice cubes are put aboard UFOs which take them back to Earth where the cubes are dumped into the oceans. The ice cubes thaw which allows the souls to escape and seek out new bodies. The Scientologist claims to have witnessed a UFO once over the Pacific Ocean dumping ice cubes. I can't say that I'm highly familiar with all of the UFO literature, but from the bit that I've read I don't recall any other witnesses claiming to have seen a UFO dumping ice cubes (although I could be wrong).

One thing that caught my attention in Hubbard's Xenu lecture is that his first priority is to get Scientologists to "own" the planet, not save it. Somehow the planet will be saved when Scientologists "own" it. I really think he had the crazy goal of becoming Earth's ruler by getting Scientologists to "own" the Earth. He didn't just write 1950's space opera, I think he was living it in his own mind.


Yes, the goal of $cientology is to clear (own) the planet.
This reminds me of an "event" after I had shortly joined the CO$. The speaker, I'm thinking he was 16, was claiming to be the youngest OT8 at the time. He went OT8 on the Freewinds. Anyway, he asked for a show of hands of how many aged 40+ remembered 30 years ago. Some hands raised. Then he asked of those under 30 (which I was at the time) to raise our hands if we remembered 30 years ago. No hands were raised. The OT8 speaker said that it was "between lives areas". He said that something really bad would have to happen to make a Thetan forget an entire lifetime.

User avatar
El Jefe'
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:53 am
Location: Earth

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby El Jefe' » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:21 am

Wieber wrote:He also said that when people were being burned at the stake during the time of the inquisition or for being witches that the executioners would pack ice on the neck under the chin and on the chest so the "thetan" could not get out of the body and would fully experience the pain of the execution. (That may be in the PTS/SP course materials or it may have been a transcription from one of the lectures that was in one of Scientology's magazines. The only other thing I was exposed to around the time of getting that one was 'The Spirit of Man' congress lectures.)


Wait a second here!

Wouldn't the fire melt the ice?

User avatar
Smurf
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:10 am

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby Smurf » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:30 am

bparker230 wrote:If "another critic" said that the souls, and not the bodies, of Xenu's victims were transported, then that's "fair use" for debate. Of course we are talking about LRH BS, but we are trying to be as "accurate" as we can about that, myself included of course.
Who made you the prophet?

User avatar
El Jefe'
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:53 am
Location: Earth

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby El Jefe' » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:52 am

Imagine how many frequent flyer miles those thetans got!

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10003
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby Wieber » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:08 am

El Jefe' wrote:
Wieber wrote:He also said that when people were being burned at the stake during the time of the inquisition or for being witches that the executioners would pack ice on the neck under the chin and on the chest so the "thetan" could not get out of the body and would fully experience the pain of the execution. (That may be in the PTS/SP course materials or it may have been a transcription from one of the lectures that was in one of Scientology's magazines. The only other thing I was exposed to around the time of getting that one was 'The Spirit of Man' congress lectures.)


Wait a second here!

Wouldn't the fire melt the ice?


Hey, it's L. Ron Hubbard's story, not mine.
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
Mark Twain

Image

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10003
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby Wieber » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Shortly before the musical album 'Power of Source' came out there was some kind of directive from ole blubber lips his self. In it were the statements, "This planet is ours," and "Move in." His argument was that "we," $cientologists, were the only ones taking responsibility for planet earth, therefore it belonged to "us," the $cientologists.

Then soon after that someone bought a copy of 'Power of Source.' I only ever saw one. It wasn't exactly a big hit within the $cientology community. One of the tracks on that album has some vocals on it. On the first listen, we were all saying, "What's that?" Then we listened again and we decided it was voices. "They're saying something. What are they saying?" We listened several times and finally made it out.

"This planet is ours this planet is ours this planet. This planet is ours this planet is ours this planet. We are moving in we are moving in we are moving in."

The following is a bit of an aside but I think it's interesting. The vocal was repeated quite a bit. In one of the 'art series' Hubbard Communications Office Bulletins (HCOBs) that came out just a bit earlier, ole blubber lips said that repetition in music built up 'ARC' and alteration from repetition was an ARC break and an impingement. If you can find the album, which I think is on line, and can stand listening to it, you'll find it is full of repetition, to the point of tediousness. Another aside about this. We were told Hubbard had someone go out and purchase all the records listed in the top 100 songs on the hit parade at the time. He listened to them and figured out the emotional tone, per the tone scale for the music of the day. It was supposed to be around grief or apathy. 'Power of Source' was supposed to be 1/2 to 1 tone above the popular music of the time and serve to raise the tone of the music being produced. The problem with all of that is the album sucked, and even hard core $cientologists were disappointed with it.
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
Mark Twain

Image

User avatar
bparker230
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby bparker230 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:06 pm

Smurf wrote:
bparker230 wrote:If "another critic" said that the souls, and not the bodies, of Xenu's victims were transported, then that's "fair use" for debate. Of course we are talking about LRH BS, but we are trying to be as "accurate" as we can about that, myself included of course.
Who made you the prophet?


Stupid question. And your ad hominem is not welcome.

User avatar
Smurf
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:10 am

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby Smurf » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:17 pm

.
Last edited by Smurf on Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Smurf
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:10 am

Re: How does COS deal with a lack of returning "reincarnatee

Postby Smurf » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:18 pm

Stupid reply. And your policing people's discussions is not welcome. Critics are free to discuss & debate issues based on their individual observations and understanding of the issues, and are not bound by what YOU consider to be accurate or not.

This is not Operation BParker.


Return to “Opinions & Debate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests