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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:21 pm 
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I disagree with Wikipedia that Stan Lee/Jack Kirby, Xemnu authors, might have gotten the "Xemnu" from a 1952 Hubbard tape "Electropsychometric Scouting: Battle of the Universes".in the 1950's, (see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19567926/ ). My understanding is that Hubbard didn't mention Xenu/Xemu until 1967 (ignoring one mention of Mt. Zenu). Furthermore, Stan Lee/Jack Kirby's story has nothing to do with sci-fi beings transporting other sci-fi beings to earth and dumping them here.

Quote:
It has been speculated that when creating Xemnu the Titan, Stan Lee was influenced by Xenu and the Thetans, the ancient extraterrestrial dictator mentioned in some Scientology teachings. Supposedly, in the late fifties either Jack Kirby or Stan Lee heard a radio broadcast of an obscure taped demonstration of Scientology auditing recorded in April 1952 and released as "Electropsychometric Scouting: Battle of the Universes". This recording was by Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard and described parts of his early Dianetics process, including the Xenu story. When asked about this rumor Stan Lee would not comment.
from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xemnu

I found some of that lecture at
http://www.skeptictank.org/essaycos.htm
with no mention of Xenu, Xemu/Xemnu. While it does have the bare bones of Hubbard's later Xenu story: outer-space beings dumping many other beings onto earth, the characters are all different.

Hubbard's Battle of the Universes from 1952 has
theta (presumably good guys)
getting tired of lowlife trouble-making entheta beings (Targs)
brings Targs to earth in flying saucers AND STILL DOING SO in 1952
dumping Targs onto earth
where they are part of a religious experiment (The word "implant" wasn't used by Hubbard in 1952)
Prison planet is mentioned
and have a union with something (humans?) and become the trouble-making majority walking around on earth.
No Xenu/Xemu/Xemnu

Hubbard's Xenu story from 1967 has
bad guy Xenu getting rid of overpopulation
bringing people to earth in DC-8's 75 million years ago
dumping them into volcanos, H-Bombing them into fragments called body thetans which watch movies to get religion implants and to this day inflict themselves onto humans as tiny invisible beings. There is no "union" anymore and the body thetans are not people walking around.
There is no phrase "prison planet."

Stan Lee/Jack Kirby's Xemnu story has a completely different plot.

Alien invasions, even if with intentional armies rather than dumped bad guys, were not original.
Quote:
The biggest wave of alien invasion movies occurred between the rise of Joe McCarthy in 1950 and the launching of Sputnik in 1957.
from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19567926/
I remember
The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951)
The Thing (1951)

The difference between these and Hubbard, is that
(1) Hubbard thought in 1952 the majority of present-day humanity are bad enthetans (because they didn't recognize his genius?) and
(2) Hubbard has authoritarian fantasies of dumping and punishing multitudes of people. Both of these impulses are not religious but, frankly, hateful and genocidal.

My conclusion is that Kirby might have heard the 1952 story on the radio, but it didn't have any visible influence on his Xemnu story. Rather, his comic book, which was reprinted shortly before Hubbard's 1967 Xenu story, influenced Hubbard with the name, and may explain why Hubbard sometimes called the bad guy Xenu and sometimes Xemu. The OT story appears to be a mix of this 1952 "Battle of the Universes" schlock, plus 1967 current events like exploding volcanos, overpopulation, implants, and H-bombs.

This comment was cross-posted from
J. Swift's Illustrated Guide to Incidents I & II of OT III http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=340030


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:39 pm 
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My timeline:
1942-1947 "Prison Planet" short stories by Wilson Tucker Note 1

1952 Hubbard mentions prison planet in 1952 "Battle of the Universes" Note 2

1958 Wall of Fire Science sci-fi by Charles Eric Maine in Satellite June 1958 Note 3

1960: Xemnu story appears, with term "prison planet." Note 4

1960's: DC-8 planes cross the Atlantic, almost certainly carrying Hubbard.

1960's Timothy Leary promotes drug use for spiritual insight.

1965: 1st mind control thru implants
Quote:
the May 17, 1965 issue of the NEW YORK TIMES, Dr. Delgado
had reportedly successfully connected electronic implants to the motor
nervous system of a bull and could stop the charging bull in its
http://www.sftoday.com/enn2/summer6.htmtracks by radio control.
Note 5

1966: Fantasy Masterpieces reprinted Golden Age stories. It was the first
series of that name. It became Marvel Super-Heroes (1967)....and included "Journey into Mystery # 62. Note 6

1967 "Summer of Love" encouraged drug use for spiritual insight

July 1967 China explodes its first H-bomb.

1967: "Alien implants" hit the tabloids.
Quote:
The concept of implants is an outgrowth of the modern UFO craze which began in 1947. In the 1960s came reports of alien abductions, events now understood to consist largely of waking dreams, hypnosis-induced fantasies, and hoaxes. Implants seem to have begun with the alleged 1967 abduction of a Massachusetts woman, Betty Andreasson, who described a tiny spiked ball that had supposedly been inserted up her nose.
Note 7

1967-1968 Kilauea Volcano erupts Note 8; flowing lava film impresses millions.
1967: Xemnu story reprinted.
1967: Hubbard , in Las Palmas, takes "pinks & Greys," (Note 9)
presumably amphetamines, which can cause hallucinations

December 1967... Ehrlich...predicted that somewhere between 1970 and 1985 the world will undergo vast famines. Note 10

December 1967: Hubbard writes Xenu story Note 11

It is possible that the "prison planet" concept was copied from Tucker to Hubbard to the Xemnu comic which was reprinted in 1967, and which Hubbard read in 1967. It triggered old memories which he wove along with overpopulation, DC 8's, volcanos, and H bombs, and "Wall of Fire" into the OT 3 fantasy.

Note 1: http://www.midamericon.org/tucker/biblio.htm
Note 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#cite_note-22 and
http://www.skeptictank.org/essaycos.htm
Note 3 http://www.waldeneast.fsnet.co.uk/cemaine.htm
Note 4 http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/xemnuthetitan.htm
Note 5 http://www.xontek.com/Advanced_Technolo ... lant.shtml
Note 6 [url=http://www.math.ucla.edu/~alee/fm1.txt]
Note 7 http://www.cicap.org/en_artic/at101028.htm
Note 8 Kilauea Volcano: The 1967-68 Summit Eruption, Kinoshita et al.
Science 24 October 1969: 459-468
Note 9 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/bts-or-dts.txt
Note 10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_R._Ehrlich
Note 11 http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/ot3.html

This comment was cross-posted from
J. Swift's Illustrated Guide to Incidents I & II of OT III http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=340030


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:33 am 
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Don you never cease to amaze me with the details you can dig up.

Great work

Atheist


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:47 am 
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Stormbringer, just assume that everything Hubbard wrote was either copied or false. I googled "volcanos" & "1967" to find out that there was a big eruption of Kilauea in 1967-1968. I remember being a teenager and watching on TV news, in awe, for the first time, rivers of lava from Hawaii. That might have been from the 1967 eruption. Twenty-somethings are jaded by glorious eruptions of lava but that was riveting in the 1960's. It's not surprising Hubbard folded that into his schlock-fantasy.

So, anytime you see Hubbard wrote "something," supposedly original, in, say 1967, google that "something" & "1967" and you'll likely find out it was in that year, or month's newspapers or media. If not, google that "something" & "1966" and so forth.

It's the same with CoS and Hubbard photos. Ask yourself, "What's wrong with this photo?" and the answer will come to you. Perhaps it's that CoS never shows Hubbard with his own wife & kids or with a staff member. Perhaps it's that Miscavige usually arranges the photos so tall people are far behind him, and he's behind a podium so he can stand on a riser. Perhaps it's that the camera uses a fisheye lens to make the crowd around a new "ideal org" look bigger than it is.

Anyone can poke and find nuggets of dopiness, errors, and plagiarism in CoS materials.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:48 am 
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Nuggets of plagiarism.

I like how that sounds.

Maybe that should be the theme of one of the protests.

besides all the things that can be dug up about Xemnu and OT3, what about other parts of his research. The sources of the Way to Happiness and Science of Survival.

Anything that they present to lure the raw meat in should be presented.

Atheist


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:30 am 
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Hubbard plagiarized much of the Xenu story - more evidence is at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/

He plagiarized everywhere. The Way to Happiness is old stuff from the Bible
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=19937

Many other Hubbard ideas, like the tone scale borrowed from Pavlov, I have already discussed. I believe he got his mangled Buddhism from Will Durant's Our Oriental Heritage, especially since he mentioned Will Durant, whose middlebrow history books were popular book-of-the-month club items in the mid-twentieth century. The Hubbard is Bare by Jeff Jacobsen, at http://www.xenu.net/archive/lrhbare/ , describes other pilfering.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:22 pm 
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Income tax inspections in Xenu story!

Quote:
Xenu was about to be deposed from power, so he devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. With the assistance of psychiatrists, he summoned billions[4][5] of his citizens together under the pretense of income tax inspections, then paralyzed them and froze them in a mixture of alcohol and glycol to capture their souls. The kidnapped populace was loaded into spacecraft for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth).

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu

My comment: Hubbard was obsessed with evading income taxes and was terrified of the IRS. No wonder he made Xenu the evil overlord behind "tax inspections."

I suppose Hubbard meant that psychiatrists paralyzed and froze the billions. Let's imagine:
2 billion people, lined up obediently for their tax inspection, in 1000 cities = 2,000,000 people per city. The person would enter a sound-proof room for the "tax inspection" and a psychiatrist would freeze and paralyze them
"Renegades" would stack 700 people in a DC-8 (which can seat about 200 ordinarily) and it would take off.
Let's assume there are ten "runways" or "launch pads" and a DC-8 can take off about every 5 minutes on each, which = two take-offs per minute. At 1440 minutes a day, and 700 bodies per plane, that's about 2,000,000 bodies per city taking off that day, in 1,440 planes, from each city.

To keep up the pace, at 5 minutes to freeze and send off each of 2 million persons in a city, cities there needed to be about 2 million /1440 minutes a day times 5 minutes, or about 7,000 psychiatrists working non-stop for 24 hours, as the population patiently waited in line for hours. So in all 1,000 cities that would be 7 million psychiatrists!

Assuming you could simultaneously freeze ten people at once in a soundproof room without them fighting back, you need 3,500 rooms each staffed by 10 psychiatrists, in each jetport.

It's so stupid.

Questions: if the government was so eager to inspect taxes, how did it collect? Did the people walk in clutching their W-2 (wage) forms and if so, were they frozen still clutching them? Could the invisible thetans wandering the world today be still clutching their invisible W-2's and searching for that itemized deduction? Does their fear of tax inspection contaminate the person they are inhabiting?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:13 pm 
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Wow what a great find!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:28 pm 
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Don Carlo wrote:
Income tax inspections in Xenu story!

Quote:
Xenu was about to be deposed from power, so he devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. With the assistance of psychiatrists, he summoned billions[4][5] of his citizens together under the pretense of income tax inspections, then paralyzed them and froze them in a mixture of alcohol and glycol to capture their souls. The kidnapped populace was loaded into spacecraft for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth).

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu

My comment: Hubbard was obsessed with evading income taxes and was terrified of the IRS. No wonder he made Xenu the evil overlord behind "tax inspections."


He was also stealing from the nativity story in the Bible:

Quote:
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. (Luke 2:1-5, KJV)


Biblical scholars generally believe "taxed," as used in the King James version, is more accurately translated as "counted," as reflected in the New International version:

Quote:
In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) And everyone went to his own town to register. So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David. He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child. (Luke 2:1-5, NIV)


Just another example of Hubbard's adoption of something without completely understanding what it means.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:57 am 
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Quote:
don't know who owns the rights to this story, but did you know that the church of Scientology uses the name
“XEMU” OR “XENU” is used in some of it's religious teachings. Check out Operation Clambake on Google.

............. PTS :: 06 March 2006

http://monsterblog.oneroom.org/journey_ ... ry_66.html

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:40 am 
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Don Carlo,

You make so many great points that it makes me become the devil's advocate.

Maybe LRH did have the Xenu story right. After all, a few other people had the same/similar 'recalls.' I can imagine an OT>3's response to seeing the Xemnu comic... "Other's survived the wall of fire too!"

Whatever, I'm a little upset that many people that I run into now associate the Xenu story with why Scn is BS. (Most any comedian that I've seen bring up Scn since the Tom Cruise couch-jumping... just focuses on the Xenu thing)

There are so many other reasons, especially because most scientologist will not or have never got to OT3. I belive that the average Scientologist will never get to that point. Did the OT3 materials change since a few years ago? Do new OT3's who pay attention to media say to themselves, "I cannot believe that was really it?"

People say to me, "I would never believe that, how could you fall for that?" (xenu story) It's hard to explain to them that I never heard about it while I was in... (parts of it for sure, but never knew that it was 'the wall of fire)

I bet the percentage of ex-scn who've never gotten to OT3 is much larger than the % of exes who have.

Anyway, nice to see that you still keep on posting


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:19 pm 
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Abuse, fraud and disconnection are the problem, not odd beliefs, so I don't bring Xenu up at pickets. Still, imagine the scene if a pre-OT hears about Xenu, and asks about it to an OT III or higher member. The pre-OT will get scolded and given an angry denial. Then, when the person DOES do OT III and finds out it's Xenu rubbish, won't that person feel lied to?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:38 am 
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Don Carlo:

Wouldn't the Xenu story fall under fraud? After all, it isn't compatible with other religious viewpoints. And $cientology denies it exists to outsiders while secretly teaching it at its higher levels.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:43 am 
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Fraud is promising perfect memory and then blaming the student, for HIS overts and withhelds, when he doesn't achieve it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:56 am 
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I think that would be more of a bait-and-switch, maybe? Or a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' kind of thing.

But I do understand that. Reading all these stories about ex's experiences in the cult has helped me navigate some muddy waters where I live. The tech is perfect and if something's wrong it's YOU and never that. Anytime I run up against someone acting like this I think of all I have learned from the people here. It keeps me from getting swept away in their persuasiveness and helps me stay objective in the situation. Can't really say more right now.

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These three things are for always: faith, hope and love. And the greatest of these is love.


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