Xemnu of the Magic Planet

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
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umike
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Post by umike » Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:13 pm

Athiest you may want to contact "Church of the Subgenius" to do a parody. The internet's original bad boys. Are their any sub-genii listening out there?
EXSCIENTOLOGIST MESSAGE BOARD:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/index.php

don_carlo
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Post by don_carlo » Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:36 am

ARS is discussing this Xemnu thread (ars discussion is here), but they need a direct link, and I don't post on ARS. Could someone supply this link to the discussion on ARS?

viewtopic.php?t=5576

Thanks.

~atheist
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Post by ~atheist » Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:56 pm

Thanks for letting me know about this Don.
I will have to check this out when I get a chance.

pippi
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Post by pippi » Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:12 pm

Well, this must be good news to the hordes of Scientology staffers who circulate through bookstores every week 'buying' copies of "Dianetics" to inflate stats!

Now they will be sent out into comic book markets to search out and destroy every copy of:
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #62 ("I Was a Slave of the Living Hulk" ) (1960)
MONSTERS ON THE PROWL #11 (1971)
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #66 (1961)
MONSTERS ON THE PROWL #14 (1971)
MARVEL FEATURE #3
DEFENDERS (Vol. 1) #12
INCREDIBLE HULK ANNUAL #5
MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE #78
SENSATIONAL SHE-HULK #6-7, 4-43
... that they can get their needy little hands on. I predict that this will be very good for the comic trading economy as the OSA recapitulates "Operation Bunny Phone" and swoops in on the internet trading of these comics!

I suggest that someone get their own enthetic hands on some more pages of XEMU / XEMNU and create a "XEMU" worship site to counter the plageristic squirreling of Ron and his DMinions at Scientology.

songbird
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Post by songbird » Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:29 pm

Don Carlo,
I have posted this link on the a.r.s. thread.

~atheist
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Post by ~atheist » Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:48 pm

Thanks Songbird

Pippi, someone who has been through OT 1,2,3 and such needs to compile a list of the declarations that are made. Then compare them to comic book stories from that time. It would allow us to comprare the amount of plagiarism that was used in LRH writings.

don_carlo
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Post by don_carlo » Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:16 pm

Thanks, Songbird. This could be some college kid's term paper in a "Fantasy and Myth" course.

pippi
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Post by pippi » Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:22 pm

"It revealed that it was called Xemnu, and had escaped a prison planet" - from XEMNU's homepage

What more poof could one ask for? This is one of the funniest days of my life! (The day I discovered this thread)

Ron did have one hell of a sense of humor! After he became a cult guru with his Dianetics -- written in 3 days on a roll of brown fish wrapping paper (he admits) -- Ron kept pushing and testing the boundaries of what his Gulliverable followers would swallow. He must have gotten lazy and hazy before a deadline and dipped into the comic books for even more material.

Oh God -- Ron even "stole" his entire life (and death) from the character of Kurtz in Joseph Conrad's novel, "A heart of Darkness".

What a wonderful world!

Love much,

Pips

Ball of Fluff
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Post by Ball of Fluff » Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:54 am

I've often felt the Xenu story could be an allegory of some sort.

Doesn't matter much to me, however. It's just not something to worry about.

Growing up in a Christian household where the Bible was respected and read but not taken literally, considered, as it was, subject to interpretation, I know 'nuff not to worry 'bout stuff like this.

pippi
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Post by pippi » Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:20 am

Well Fluffy,

If body thetans and implantations of humans followed Xenu, which, who, was an allegory, then it follows that that auditing and the OT levels and what NOT are also merely symbolic rituals based around these allegories.

"It's just not something to worry about" -- Lisa McPherson doesn't have anything worry about anymore, but the people virtually (?) imprisoned in RPF and the Sea Org, as well as the thousands of psychologically vulnerable people who have been and are preyed upon by Scientology have a lot to worry about!

If it weren't for the ugly reality of Scientology, it would be a lot easier to laugh at Ron Hubbard and his Operating Thetoons.

pippi
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Post by pippi » Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:34 am

Don Carlo,

As you wrote above, Ron ascribed the GPMs "ELECTRICAL", "TOCKY", "BIG-BEING", "HOUSE", and "PSYCHO" to Xenu while Xemnu "constructed replicas of Groot, Goom, Diablo, Taboo, and The Blip"

"Scientology - a role playing fantasy game ..." - The Register

Dingdång
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Post by Dingdång » Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:18 pm

Very funny and interesting about the Marvel comics similarity with OTIII. Ver good job!
I would also like to say that there was an science fiction book coming out in 50`s named "The Wall of Fire"....does the name sound familiar???..The authors name is: Charles Eric Maine.

Take Care!
:)

Ball of Fluff
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Post by Ball of Fluff » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:00 pm

The OTIII stuff had nothing to do with Lisa McPherson.

Boy, are you reaching.

ltricha
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Post by ltricha » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:20 pm

Actually it does Fluffy, as in the context, that some of those tenders of McPherson were OT's. OT III is a belief in that religion you continue believe in, in order to hide from reality.

The only one reaching here is you Fluffy. Reaching to maintain belief in your Idol, (Hubbard) and reaching to maintain the scientific validity of something that has been disproven.
Tech is the carrot.
Admin is the cart.
and ethics is the whip.
Guess who the horses are...

don_carlo
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Post by don_carlo » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:42 pm

Fluffygirl, I have a relative trapped in Scientology sweatshop labor. If my relative is throwing life and money away for a comic-book rip-off, it's something for ME to worry about. After the Xenu-comic-book link goes public, who is going to hire an ex-CoS employee when CoS goes bankrupt? Lisa McPherson said she was an OT. Could forcing herself to believe comic-book fantasy have helped to unhinge her sense of reality?

Let's look at Bernie's "defense" of OT3, from
http://bernie.cncfamily.com
Bernie quotes are in blue, Don_Carlo in green, other speakers in italics.

BERNIE QUOTE 1: this (Xenu) isn't the core belief of Scientology. While it does some good to have this secret belief out in the open, critics mostly use it to ridicule Scientology's beliefs, to taunt Scientologists, and to reduce Scientology in the eyes of outsiders to nothing more than a nut UFO... END QUOTE

QUOTE: The following comments were made by an ex-Scientology auditor and Case Supervisor named Caroline Letkeman, who was highly trained (Class IX) to administer the Scientology "technology" on the Upper Levels of Scientology's Bridge, including OT3: Begin quote.

In order for scn (Scientology) to "work" at the upper levels, the person must accept the OT 3 incident as a literal and factual matter. If the
person does not experience the fragmented condition as a "conscious and literal fact", or if he cannot accept Hubbard's interpretation of
the psychological phenomena expected at this level, the person is labeled a "bypassed case" and is sent back to redo his lower levels.
I.e., his psychological state must be such that he can see his psychological complexes as external autonomous entities, and he must
be able to literally address these entities with the exact volcano story as given by Hubbard.

There is no getting around this point technically--either the incident is real and "processible" or the person has not validly made his lower
grades. According to the technical materials of Scientology, there is no one on this earth who has escaped the incident or who is immune to
its effects. That is why Hubbard labeled it as the "4th dynamic engram."

Therefore, there is no further Bridge progress possible unless and until the person can subjectively experience the required
psychological condition and its associated Hubbardian interpretation.

The Scientologist at OT 3 is not addressed on the basis of his "beliefs" about Hubbard's materials. He is handled on the basis of Hubbard's "scientific" evaluation of his literal psychological condition. If the psychological condition of the person at OT 3 is not sufficiently fragmented and projected outward, he will not be able to accept the OT 3 incident as given by Hubbard as a valid interpretation of his condition.

That Scientology publicly protests criticism of their "religious beliefs" is itself dangerously misleading, in my opinion. Hubbard did not characterize the OT 3 incident as a "belief"--he taught it as a factual incident and as a scientifically researched psychological
explanation for the state that OT 3's find themselves in at that level.
End quote from Caroline Letkeman at
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/minton-essay.txt

"The Road to Xenu" has the handwritten pages by Ron which "start" the Xenu story, including Ron himself saying the story was data (not belief):

Ron QUOTE: In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful.
END QUOTE from
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Sh ... nu-13.html

The LA Times noted that the Scientologists thought the OT III levels were EXTREMELY important - QUOTE
Scientologists have been trying to prevent the release of the documents, which they consider secret and sacred, and about 1500 church
members crammed three floors of the Los Angeles County Courthouse on Monday, effectively blocking public access to documents.
... In arguing to keep the court documents sealed, the church has told its members that it could be physically and spiritually harmful for them to learn about the upper levels of Scientology before they have mastered the preparatory courses. Scientology attorneys have argued that disclosure of the material violates the group's religious freedom.
...For hours on Monday, Scientologists swamped workers in the clerk's office with hundreds of requests to photocopy the documents.
...Scientologists, by snaking the line through three courthouse hallways, made sure they were the only ones to buy copies of the materials.

END QUOTE from
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/latimes-1985.txt

My comments: Bernie is right that Xenu is not a "core belief." It is a core "fact." Those critics that have called it a "core belief" had better update their words!

BERNIE QUOTE # 2
In addition, the way the belief in Xenu and BTs is being used by critics against Scientologists is often precisely because they know that Scientologist consider it "restimulative" and that they believe it can seriously mess up their personal "case". It is meant to shut the communication off and then accuse the Scientologist of not wanting to communicate. It was also used in order to taunt the CoS in suing critics for copyright violation and then accuse the CoS of "attacking free speech and the net". END QUOTE.

My comment: Bernie has a point here. It's such a weakness in the whole Hubbard philosophy. But Hubbard wrote it as tech, CoS can't change it, and CoS is stuck with it. It is not the fault of critics that this has happened. Many critics think it is their DUTY to get the word out, so that newcomers see what's in the middle of the mystery sandwich, so they can make an informed choice. I'll argue about any weakness I can in CoS if it helps get my relative out. To do less would be not doing right by my family.

I doubt the earliest OT posters wanted to be sued by CoS when they posted the OT III levels. My guess is they simply wanted to get the news out. The fact that the Swedish courts RELEASED the levels, effectively making them available to all mankind, was pure gravy. Later posters may have posted the OT III levels as a trap, to get publicity for their cause. Shameless publicity-seeking is done by almost every organization on the planet. CoS should have KNOWN not to sue. The fact that it couldn't "help" itself from suing is a particularly wry commentary on its paranoia; it is not the fault of critics.


BERNIE QUOTE # 3: If the Xenu incident didn't exist, Scientology would still exist and people would still call what they do as Scientology and refer themselves as Scientologists.

My comment: According to the LA times, what comes before OT III is just preparatory courses.
Sorry. Bernie, your idea about taking out OT III and it still being "Scientology" is speculative squirreling. You mustn't change the tech, right? If you were in CoS, you'd have to report to Ethics just for SAYING that idea. If you're going to become a "Cafeteria Scientologist" who picks and chooses what is "true" Scientology, you'd better start sharpening your teeth and fluffing out your tail, because it's going to be a long winter up in the tree!

END QUOTE from "The Don Carlo and Mouth Breather Mousefight" at
link:http://discus.xenu.net/cgi-bin/discus/b ... 1040445093

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