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moontaco
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Post by moontaco » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:33 am

BTs2Free wrote:I'm bumping this topic. My personal feeling is that it should always remain on the front page.
Perhaps Andreas would make it sticky. If you haven't tried asking him yet, you might want to give it a shot.

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WhiteTrashMessiah
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Post by WhiteTrashMessiah » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:43 pm

SchwimmelPuckel wrote:If she snuck out in the night unseen, what may have caused her to die? - Electric fences? - Very high fences, so she fell and broke something? - Or guard dogs!? Do they have dobermanns running around there?
I'd say your scenarios would be unlikely. She was found half a mile from the compound. Electric fences would have done their job at FAR less distance. It's not like you cross the fence and have the electricity stalk you, you know? Same with a fall; unless it was something other than her neck you're referring to. Guard dogs are usually pretty swift on the hunt, so I doubt whe would have even gotten more than half the distance she was found at had they been used.

However, what has to be considered, is that with conditions as they are in RPF and such, she could have well been dehydrated, in poor physical health and perhaps starving. These physical conditions can lead to exhaustion and heart arrhythmia. All her heart would have to do is skip a beat a t the wrong moment and it'd essentially "lock up" on her, putting her into cardiac arrest. Especially given the added stress of having to literally run for her life, which naturally raises the heart rate, plus the adrenaline flowing to make the heart pump even harder.

Muscle needs protein to stay fit and trim. What is the Scientology diet, especially that of the RPF lacking in? Protein. All muscles suffer, and since the heart is a muscle...

Time will tell I suppose. I''m more interested in how the cult tries to make this PR flap "go away".

I'd lay my money on a "heart attack" angle.
MAYHEM. MUTINY. ENTURBULATION.

"GMs aren't allowed to tell you but the bridge quest is bugged. Even after you complete all the objectives, it stays on your quest list and you keep losing money. Only way to stop it is to log out and uninstall."

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Braveheart's Girlfriend
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Post by Braveheart's Girlfriend » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:09 pm

I might have missed something on this thread.. but what happens to bodies that are found and not identified by family or friends? What does the State of California do with them after autopsy? Is there a FOI route someone could take to see where they're up to with this? As WTM said, it could be a case of releasing someone who was close to death (as in not wanting another Lisa McPherson scenario) who simply collapsed and died of dehydration/starvation/heart attack/etc. Hypothetically. I don't understand why more information hasn't been released by the police.
http://alley.ethercat.com/door/

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Whitedove
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Post by Whitedove » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:11 pm

One theory I have. Its just a theory. She died while on the base and it was decided to put her out of the complex as not to have to explain the reason she died. Abuses. Lack of proper nutrition, etc...

And how can it be proved she was on the base? Maybe its someone who has no family left and they knew about it.

I dont know exactly what it is but I am pretty sure she was on the RPF.

Nothing surprises me anymore of what $cientology is capable of.
I can just imagine the terror in which the RPFers are in with what they see around every day and what they endure.
:x :(
We are still masters of our fate. We are still captains of our souls. - Winston Churchill

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WhiteTrashMessiah
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Post by WhiteTrashMessiah » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:15 pm

Braveheart's Girlfriend wrote:I might have missed something on this thread.. but what happens to bodies that are found and not identified by family or friends? What does the State of California do with them after autopsy?
BG: I'm not sure how it is in the US, but usually people who remain in state and unclaimed or have no surviving family to foot the bill get a "state's funeral". This is a process where the body is prepared and entombed in (usually) the cheapest manner possible. They're assigned a number, given a plot location in what's called a "pauper's grave", buried in a cheap clapboard coffin....

And forgotten.

The state picks up the funeral costs for the process, and the next one is processed. And so the wheel turns.
MAYHEM. MUTINY. ENTURBULATION.

"GMs aren't allowed to tell you but the bridge quest is bugged. Even after you complete all the objectives, it stays on your quest list and you keep losing money. Only way to stop it is to log out and uninstall."

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Braveheart's Girlfriend
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Post by Braveheart's Girlfriend » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:26 pm

If this had been a normal rural neighborhood, wouldn't every house within cooee have been scouted thoroughly for evidence and every occupant in the whole community interviewed extensively? Apologies if this has already been covered in the thread, haven't had time to keep up with all of it. Fingerprints? Approx. age? DNA? WTF?

Ah - just saw Whitedove's and WTM's replies.

That WTM. I wonder how long the relevant authorities would hold onto the body before sending them to their pauper's grave.. autopsy automatic in these kinds of cases in California? If an autopsy, is this public information? Lisa's was.

Whitedove, that's a totally believable theory. God I despise that cult.
http://alley.ethercat.com/door/

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Whitedove
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Post by Whitedove » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:57 pm

God I despise that cult.
Likewise BG, likewise.
We are still masters of our fate. We are still captains of our souls. - Winston Churchill

CJK
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Post by CJK » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:22 pm

BTs2Free wrote:When I was there and being watched at OGH (Old Gilman House) Danny Dunagin one of the Security Gaurds would always have his Belgian Shepherd with him. Uwe Stuckenbrock would have his side-arm.

BTs2Free
From: http://www.lermanet.com/rpf-insider/
.......You see what happens when you start the program, you have to turn in
all your IDs; drivers' licence, passport, VISAs, credit cards, cash etc. My
credit cards are probably expired anyway and I can get new ones. I can
always figure out how to get some new valid ID. All RPFers' valuable
documents are kept in a file cabinet locked up so that you cannot take off
with your own documents. You are also not allowed to have more than $20 in
cash in your pocket, and if you manage to save up more, instead of spending
it in the canteen, you are supposed to turn it in for safe keeping. I guess
another freak-control-mechanism, making it really hard to blow. If the RPFer
is not from the US, a passport is obviously needed to get home, and it would
take some time and money to report it stolen and get a new one. I guess the
idea is that security will be able to find you "off guard," without any ID,
job, money, credit cards etc. I can imagine that it takes some guts to blow
not because you're fed up with the scene here but for the main reason that
you are hitting the streets with no money, no ID and no place to stay...


What I wanted to say with this letter is something that I have had a
lot of attention on for quite some time. Specifically there are two RPFers
that are REALLY SICK AND NEED OF PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL CARE. I will take one
at the time. The first RPFer is named Uwe Stuckenbrock. He arrived in the
RPF here in PAC around 2001, but I believe he was on the RPF in Happy Valley
before he came here. He is diagnosed with MS, Multiple Sclerosis, a disease
that from what I understand (from having looked it up in the encyclopedia)
there is no known cure for. Over the last 3 years, I have watched him
getting worse and worse, though it seems that he is getting some of
attention and care. When he arrived he had a hard time walking by himself,
and this has deteriorated to the point of needing full time around the clock
assistance. He always has one or two other RPFers caring for him, as at this
point he cannot even make it to the bathroom by himself. He cannot walk at
all now and he has to be taken around in a wheel chair. What I don't
understand is that although he is being treated with a lot of natural foods
and juices and vitamins and assists he's getting worse and worse. He does go
to the local hospital sometimes with two people escorting him. He's getting
checkups at LA County Hospital or somewhere, where the church is getting
free service on Medicare, because we RPFers simply don't have any money for
any medical bills. Not long ago, we had to prepare a separate room for him
on the 2nd floor in the West wing, next to the stairwell towards Catalina
Street. He had been in the hospital and in critical condition. When he came
back he needed a cleaner, more private environment to recover. We spent
several days gutting out a little closed off room (where the other guy was
living that I'm going to tell you about, Mike Eves). The space was filthy
and outrageously dusty, like it hadn't been cleaned for months. We repainted
the entire room, put up new curtains, put in a new carpet, new cabinets,
etc. Uwe was living in a little curtained off space in a room with about 50
other guys.(the room I told you about earlier, with the bunks crammed in and
up to the ceiling.) It was decided that Uwe's condition was more critical
than Mike's, so we were ordered to switch their places!! Mike was recovering
from a very critical operation for cancer, and HAD ONE LUNG REMOVED! Having
watched this scene going on for years, it is obvious to me that THESE TWO
GUYS WILL NEVER MAKE IT OUT OF THE RPF ALIVE! It's technically impossible,
as you have to "make someone else better" i.e. your twin, in order to
graduate. These guys don't even have twins and are just fighting to stay
alive. Come on! Uwe cannot even get up to go to the bathroom. What in hell
is he doing in the RPF?? He cannot be getting enough professional care and
attention and it's INHUMAN to watch what is going on. All the other RPFers
are probably also outraged, but are suppressing their own feelings, in the
hope of not missing their own chance to get out of here. I'm actually
wondering how long these guys will survive and why they are not granted some
forgiveness for whatever they were assigned to the RPF for. Human decency
would be to sign them in to a proper nursing home to recover or at least die
in peace. The one theory that I have is this: Uwe Stuckenbrock was the
International Security Chief at Hemet.
O'boy! What would happen if he had
the opportunity to let the world know what is going on up there or the
security issues that exist all over the planet. I'm sure that he's kept in
the RPF so won't be able to leak any data out. When he arrived on the RPF he
was at the caselevel of OT III and from what I heard, don't know if this is
true, but his MS turned on while he was auditing on this level. So what has
been done over the last 3 years to "handle" this? He completed OT III, was
audited through OT IV and has been getting sessions on OT V for at least one
year - I guess in the hope that he'd be getting better, but he's NOT
IMPROVING! He is getting worse!

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WhiteTrashMessiah
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Post by WhiteTrashMessiah » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:25 pm

Braveheart's Girlfriend wrote:That WTM. I wonder how long the relevant authorities would hold onto the body before sending them to their pauper's grave.. autopsy automatic in these kinds of cases in California? If an autopsy, is this public information? Lisa's was.
I can only go by what the parameters are locally, BG, but remains are usually held perhaps a week in a hospital morgue crypt as law enforcement officials do a search based on forensic evidence (dental impressions and fingerprints taken from the body) for any N.O.K. (next of kin).

If this fails, the remains are processed as either a "Jane Doe" with the coroner's case number being used for any and all processes in the steps thereafter, or if the actual identity is divined, as the person's identity, but having no N.O.K. and then processed for the pauper's service.

For the autopsy results to become open knowledge or fall under FIOA, the coroner has to do what's known as "release interest in the case", meaning that the coroner's conclusions have been reached and the case closed on their end.

Again, some of this will depend on any statutes on the state or county level in the jurisdiction that it occurred, so mileage may vary.
MAYHEM. MUTINY. ENTURBULATION.

"GMs aren't allowed to tell you but the bridge quest is bugged. Even after you complete all the objectives, it stays on your quest list and you keep losing money. Only way to stop it is to log out and uninstall."

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magoo1
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Post by magoo1 » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:32 pm

Thanks, BTs2Free----good job.

And Merrrrrrrrrry Christmas to you, and ALL here on OCMB!!

:wink:

I hope it's a happy one for all :cheers:

Tory/Magoo~~~

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chuckbeatty
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Graham Berry message to Mike Rinder and OSA and execs

Post by chuckbeatty » Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:36 pm

IMPORTANT: RINDER and other senior Scientology executive strata


German, French and Belgium government officials are aware of the many
reports that [former] high ranking Scientology executive Michael
Rinder has left his post in the Church of Scientology. They are also
aware that several other Church of Scientology senior executives may
have left the organization in the recent past, and that many others
are being held captive in the Rehabilitation Project Force. The lives
of some may even be in potential danger. Their sworn testimony would
destroy the Church, as presently operated and protected by the Office
of Special Affairs. Indeed, the late Robert Vaughn Young frequently
said to me, "The first one to go to the F.B.I. and provide sworn
testimony will get immunity from prosecution and the rest will get
federal prison!"


Furthermore, these European government officials are aware of the
dangers and pressures, in the United States, faced by Mike Rinder and
other former high level scientology executives. To date, the United
States political and law enforcement agencies have not lifted a finger
to protect anyone from Church of Scientology harassment and crime.
Indeed, the U.S. State Department is actively pressuring various
European and other governments on behalf of the Church of Scientology,
and the U.S. Departments of Justice and Treasury are actively
concealing and protecting the Church's psycho-terrorism and other
illegal and subversive activities. Consequently, I have been requested
to post the following information:


In order to be flown to Germany [France or Belgium] and to be provided
with State assistance and personal protection there, Mike Rinder and
any other recent top level former Scientology executives need only
present themselves to a German [French or Belgium] government embassy
or consulate and request political asylum be granted. In addition,
they should request that Ursula Caberta, the head of the State of
Hamburg Scientology Working Group, be immediately advised of the
request. She can be emailed at fhh...@t-online.de or telephoned
(011-49-40) 428-86-6444. A current passport is not necessarily
required.


I am also able to assist with the foregoing and I am willing to
provide pro bono legal representation and communication to and on
behalf of any such persons, if only to insulate them from OSA recovery
efforts. He/she/they need only telephone or email me. I am currently
out of the country but will promptly return if required for such
purposes.


In that regard, some of the senior O.S.A. officers may recall me
telling Kendrick Moxon, Esq., that if he were ever to leave
Scientology then I would be willing to provide him with the same
aggressive representation and shield that I have provided to a
significant number of persons and entities such as Joseph A. Yanny,
Esq., Dr. Uwe Geertz, Steven Fishman, Robert Vaughn Young and Stacy
Young, and F.A.C.T. Net. Rick Moxon responded then he "would never
leave Scientology;" but circumstances can change!


Sincerely and with seasons greetings to all,
Graham E. Berry, Esq.
(310) 745-3771 (messages are being relayed)
grahambe...@ca.rr.com or graha...@aol.com
Chuck Beatty 412-260-1170
Pittsburgh, USA,
"Our bombastic lapidary style is good only for inflating dwarfs." Jean-Jacques Rousseau (from "Emile, or On Education")

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Patty Pieniadz
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Re: Graham Berry message to Mike Rinder and OSA and execs

Post by Patty Pieniadz » Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:55 pm

chuckbeatty wrote:IMPORTANT: RINDER and other senior Scientology executive strata


German, French and Belgium government officials are aware of the many
reports that [former] high ranking Scientology executive Michael
Rinder has left his post in the Church of Scientology. They are also
aware that several other Church of Scientology senior executives may
have left the organization in the recent past, and that many others
are being held captive in the Rehabilitation Project Force. The lives
of some may even be in potential danger. Their sworn testimony would
destroy the Church, as presently operated and protected by the Office
of Special Affairs. Indeed, the late Robert Vaughn Young frequently
said to me, "The first one to go to the F.B.I. and provide sworn
testimony will get immunity from prosecution and the rest will get
federal prison!"


Furthermore, these European government officials are aware of the
dangers and pressures, in the United States, faced by Mike Rinder and
other former high level scientology executives. To date, the United
States political and law enforcement agencies have not lifted a finger
to protect anyone from Church of Scientology harassment and crime.
Indeed, the U.S. State Department is actively pressuring various
European and other governments on behalf of the Church of Scientology,
and the U.S. Departments of Justice and Treasury are actively
concealing and protecting the Church's psycho-terrorism and other
illegal and subversive activities. Consequently, I have been requested
to post the following information:


In order to be flown to Germany [France or Belgium] and to be provided
with State assistance and personal protection there, Mike Rinder and
any other recent top level former Scientology executives need only
present themselves to a German [French or Belgium] government embassy
or consulate and request political asylum be granted. In addition,
they should request that Ursula Caberta, the head of the State of
Hamburg Scientology Working Group, be immediately advised of the
request. She can be emailed at fhh...@t-online.de or telephoned
(011-49-40) 428-86-6444. A current passport is not necessarily
required.


I am also able to assist with the foregoing and I am willing to
provide pro bono legal representation and communication to and on
behalf of any such persons, if only to insulate them from OSA recovery
efforts. He/she/they need only telephone or email me. I am currently
out of the country but will promptly return if required for such
purposes.


In that regard, some of the senior O.S.A. officers may recall me
telling Kendrick Moxon, Esq., that if he were ever to leave
Scientology then I would be willing to provide him with the same
aggressive representation and shield that I have provided to a
significant number of persons and entities such as Joseph A. Yanny,
Esq., Dr. Uwe Geertz, Steven Fishman, Robert Vaughn Young and Stacy
Young, and F.A.C.T. Net. Rick Moxon responded then he "would never
leave Scientology;" but circumstances can change!


Sincerely and with seasons greetings to all,
Graham E. Berry, Esq.
(310) 745-3771 (messages are being relayed)
grahambe...@ca.rr.com or graha...@aol.com

YOWZER!

This is getting very interesting!.

Patty
Education is not a hate crime.
http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/pieniadz1.html

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Whitedove
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Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 8:39 pm

Post by Whitedove » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:08 pm

To date, the United
States political and law enforcement agencies have not lifted a finger
to protect anyone from Church of Scientology harassment and crime.
Indeed, the U.S. State Department is actively pressuring various
European and other governments on behalf of the Church of Scientology,
and the U.S. Departments of Justice and Treasury are actively
concealing and protecting the Church's psycho-terrorism and other
illegal and subversive activities
I said before that the 'church' was protected. I dont know if its money (probably) or by what other means but I knew it. It just make sense because $cientology is getting away with way too much crimes against people. Gosh, what I would give to know what it is exactly.
I freakin knew it!

BUT, thank god there is other ways:
In order to be flown to Germany [France or Belgium] and to be provided
with State assistance and personal protection there, Mike Rinder and
any other recent top level former Scientology executives need only
present themselves to a German [French or Belgium] government embassy
or consulate and request political asylum be granted. In addition,
they should request that Ursula Caberta, the head of the State of
Hamburg Scientology Working Group, be immediately advised of the
request. She can be emailed at fhh...@t-online.de or telephoned
(011-49-40) 428-86-6444. A current passport is not necessarily
required.
Thank you Chuck. At least they know where to turn and from who to stay away from!
We are still masters of our fate. We are still captains of our souls. - Winston Churchill

mr_bad
Posts: 2681
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:00 pm

Post by mr_bad » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:21 am

Given the likelihood of more traffic during this latest footbullet, I'm bumping this--it deserves to be locked at top of Opinions and Debate.

This thread should be mandatory reading for all new people.

Cheers,

mb
Here's Jabba the Hub as he writes crappy sci-fi while his wife sits prison...OT Priorities personified!!!
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pelagic
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Post by pelagic » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:30 pm

Another thing to remember, for non-US SO. If you can get to your embassy or consulate. Tell them where your ID and passport is. Let them help you get it back.

Rock up to PAC security with embassy staff in tow. You will be surprised at how fast things will go.

I was stuck there for years, it was after the fact that I realized what help the "authorities" would have given me.

If you are non-US or home grown US. The police will not think you are crazy if you do this. Just wonder why you put up with it for so long.

Then leave the country.

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