What is their status really.........2/21/06.....dead or alive and where a few investigators (govt) would really like know....i had a brief local search awhile back,rumor had marty in the lumber mill on rpf....?now word is he died...cancer?

Tory, I think every Sea Org member is in a constant state of "restimulation" and worried about getting RPFed or declared. I think DM thinks that is the way to control people, and their thoughts. If you dare to even THINK a critical thought about DM you WILL be found out, as long as you believe the crude lie detector they call the e-meter can read your thoughts. (It can't.)

How many people can disappear after years of faithful service without the rest of the people in the cage noticing and wondering if they are next?

It has gotten so embarrasing for the cult that they make the 200+ man RPF at PAC run a round about route through unused stairwells and run over the roof and back down so the other staff don't see them and get "enturbulated."

The last "SP" list that was published in 1990s had thousands of names on it. I am sure many more have been declared since then, OSA just realized that is was out PR to admit to having so many enemys.

I wish every SP declared enemy of scientology would all raise their hands and tell their story.

If anyone who is thinking of leaving could get the latest SP list and post it, that would be one of the final nails in the cults coffin.

Here is the last SP "Enemy List" scientology made public:

http://www.xenu.net/archive/enemy_names/enemy_list.html

AFAIK Vanella is at CLO WUS and hasn't left the SO. Jens Uhrskov, I heard, is still at Int, not sure what he is doing nowadays.

No Rathbun did not die of cancer - the Rathbun that was being referred to was a different person.

there seems to be an obsession going around about Rathbun and McShane - why? Did you know them both? Are they friends who would be happy to hear from you?

My apologies, this post is sounding a little like a flame but it really is not intended to be. The point I am trying to make is that a lot of fuss gets made about two people when there is absolutely no evidence or reason for any fuss.

If they left the SO then it is up to them to decide if they want to talk to people. If they are still in the SO then the rules they agreed to would forbid them from talking to anyone - especially someone posting on OCMB.

Jut because someone hops up and down and demands information does not mean that they should, or will, get the information they are demanding.

Mick, I love your xso board and have the highest regards for you and Nancy. That said, I am surprised and dismayed that stories from ex-sea org who happen to find their way here to ocmb are not welcomed with open arms on XSO.

I think it is a bit much to expect that a newly escaped INT staffer who has not ever had free access to the Internet or any other media should be expected to know the nuances of the boards. I have rarely posted on XSO in part because I don't know a lot of the old timers who were on the ship with LRH, (though I love their stories and could fill them in from my own 29 years of experience) and also because it seems many people are soooo... over the whole experience ... and prefer to reminisce about the "good old days," which were few and far between even then, and are nearly non-existent now.

I have recommended your board to many XSO. It is great. but I do think OCMB is more secure and anonymous, and is a better place for newbies to come for support and understanding.

I hope you will suggest that the stories XSO tell are important to the history of the cult, and to the new people coming out of the cult.

I really wish more XSO would post here on OCMB.

Our very best wishes and highest regards, Ladybird

BTW, I would never demand any information about anyone, and completely agree with you that it is no ones right or business to know any more private information than anyone wants to tell. I am and will remain anonymous as long as possible.

"Just because someone hops up and down and demands information does not mean that they should, or will, get the information they are demanding."

Goes without saying, but such hopping and demanding gives DM ticks... maybe the Feds will notice... Maybe CIA and NSA has those pinpoint cameras described in Battlefield Earth. Only safe place to communicate is with secret handsigns at the bottom of a public swimmingpool!

I just hope that the CIA and FBI can shoot their picturs not at an angle.

Forgive me for saying this Ladybird but I think you have reached an erroneous conclusion. The essence of the XSO list is XSO members talking to each other. It is not XSO members posting material from other places to each other.

Whether the data is an Ex SO member's posting on OCMB or quotes from Scientology's website or extracts from the Encyclopedia Britannica - the rule on the list is post a link to it, do not post the material itself.

If the link is provided why is it important that the text be copied and pasted?





There is no assumption about whether newly out people should post or understand the nuances of anything to do with the internet. The XSO list is simply a list for XSO to talk to each other.



Don't disagree with you there.



I am not sure how to answer this.



There are many on XSO who do not feel comfortable doing that for many reasons,



and the very same to you and yours!!



I understand completely.

Dear Ladybird and Mick,


A posting of mine was rejected this morning to the XSO board
as unsuitable. Perhaps Mick could post it as I do not have it to post.


I will paraphrase some of what I recall,

Title: I am a recovering Scientologist

A paragraph about being at FBO Pubs US and getting sent to the DPF ( before there was an RPF ) for placing an advertisement in TV Guide for Dianetics....

Since getting out, I have tried to learn what happenned to me, how Hubbard did it.. some of the stages I experienced are here:
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html

That I survived long enough to figure these things out was not part of Hubbard's plan as silence is his handling for those who find out about him.
My survival was because of those who went before me, who stood on the basis that truth was senior to policy... like Gerry Armstrong..

That I have survived for 12 years speaking out has made such a discussion mailing list as XSO possible...while some effectively hold miscaviges attention... you guys can get organized.


Compassion


The humane thing to do when an organism is mortally wounded, is to put it out of its misery. This would be the compassionate thing to do.

But I sure could use some help.

How many more Lisa McPhersons will now be hidden from view with the newest policies of having baby watch houses off site so that deaths are not connected to the day to day functions of the Scientology organization.

I would like to help all my ex-brothers in arms, learn what happenned to them, and then in exchange, ask that they help others learn what happenned to them.. and help end the abuses.

For gawd sakes, help me build a better bridge out, of scientology.

Arnie Lerma

Due to an oath I took, for me, silence is not an option...

Pitbull, inadvertently, outlined exactly what Scientology hopes to achieve on the XSO message board

"This has been a tactic for many years to scare and threaten scientologists.

Either to keep them from leaving the church, or, to control them after leaving. They do not want anyone getting auditing who leaves the church"

"But yes, many would like to be able to continue the auditing, but also feel that have connection with others. They have been taken advantage of in the church, but this does not mean their fundamental interests have changed. Then, once out from under the thumb of Miscavige and other goons, they can begin to develop and ARC with critics. Even some of the most vociferous ones. Then maybe a happy medium can evolve. One where on-line members can soften their views, still get what they want, but then explore alternatives. "


The Truth

The fact is, truth will set you free. Finding out what was done to you helps set you free, dreamwork helps set you free, meditation helps set you free...shock therapy.. helps set you free( skydiving ).




I'm on the left, red and black

The fact is, scientology's worst nightmare, is the tobacco litigation from hell day of reckoning, and I think that should happen, sooner rather than later... but it takes the victims of hubbard's ruse finding out how he built such a perfect trap for such very fine minds. Finding that out, is the
REAL WALL OF FIRE - and is prerequisite for further spiritual growth.

And that is why we got involved in Scientology to begin with.

Arnie, you are awesome. You ARE what I wish every ex could be. You just keep on keepin' on telling the truth about the cult no matter what oSA throws at you to try to shut you up. You have inspired me and I am sure so many others to step up to the plate and fight back against this cult that has ruined so many lives and hurt so many people.

Did you know that Kendrick Moxon was introduced to scientology through a skydiving club? Rick is a brilliant individual, and will be the succesor to Robert V. Young if he manages to escape from scientology.

There should be a place for us xso where we can reach out a helping hand to our fellows.

Hi Mike, I think I can answer your question. The obsession is because of the spectacular way they went from high level executives to non-persons.

Ordinarily outsiders wouldn't know if DM had staffers drawn and quartered, but these guys were scrubbed off scientology's public web sites without a word as to why they had been kicked out of the upper ranks.

Sloppy job too, last time I looked the search feature had not been re indexed so Marty and Warren both show up with pointers to missing pages or pages that no longer mention them.

Trying to figure out what's going on at Int is like looking at a bag full of unhappy cats. You can tell somethings going on in there but not much more.

Really appreciate your work with XSO. Could you send a note to hkhenson@rogers.com.

Keith Henson

It's "MICK" not "mike"....though I am sure Mick Wenlock could care less.

From an old Saturday Night Live skit: "You can call me Ray or you can Call me Jay...just don't call me "Johnson"

Henson has a very good point, who is to know what really happened when cult members disappear. Many of the oldtimers have long since disconnected from their families so who would even know or care that they were missing.

Did anyone ever identify the body found on the Soboba Indian reservation who was dressed in RPF garb?

Yeah right...paint the critics to look like kooks and distract the attention OFF of scientologys crimes, and on to anything else at all.

Ladybird

Hi Keith,

thanks!

I sent you an email..

Mick

Hey Mick and really everyone on this thread:

You all are AWESOME!

I'm thrilled that the XSO people are sharing their stories. I've been there a few times, but honestly find it hard these days to make it to ARS and OC and XSO.....ahh such a 'problem' to have . I'll try to get there more often, as I love hearing the facts that I never knew

I definitely want to hear about the founding of the GAT. I was there when it was being developed, but I'd like to hear more about it, from the inside.
You mentioned you started a thread re that, so I'll find it tomorrow night.

For now? I sleeeeeeeeeeeep

Best ...

Tory/Magoo~~