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 Post subject: Re: 1984 and CoS
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:42 pm 
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skeptic2girl wrote:
Am also just listening to 1984 and performed a search on OCMB; the similarities with Scientology are so blatant, I knew it must have been talked of before.

It goes beyond the "Doublespeak" and "Thoughtcrime," though -- I think Hubbard must have lifted phrases and concepts from Orwell's book.

For instance, O'brien (the main antagonist in the book, who tortures the protagonist, Winston Smith) using the term, "destroy utterly." He also talks about the "end of the session."

These things just came up in Chapter 12 -- but of course there are many other concepts.

I would be interested to know what people think about this -- particularly people who have read the book recently. I want to get a physical copy of the book to find the other terms that Hubbard apparently stole in order to make his policies.

The interesting - and frightening - part is that Hubbard seems to have viewed the "Big Brother"/government figure as the good guys. I don't think he saw himself as Big Brother or even O'Brien, but that he wanted to use Scientology to ideally control the planet.

There are also many references to "insanity" and how until Winston Smith comes to actually think that 2+2 = 5, he is considered insane.


Yet another topic I never tire of. KUDOS Sceptic2Girl for being interested.

Read this unaltered transcript(before DM rewrote 'source') from a hubbard lecture

PDC Lecture 20 wrote:
If you release the remedy, and if the remedy is fast enough before the forces of evil can muster their machinations and use the overt act, it can't ever be used. There is only one thing that could happen to Scientology, and that is to say that it would be buried. The remedy would be buried. If it ever went out of sight, this world's done. All you've got to do is invalidate it and put it out of sight and hide it, and it'll come up in the wrong place doing the wrong thing, and mankind will find itself a slave.

So anybody that knows the remedy of this subject, anybody that knows these techniques, is himself actually under a certain responsibility - that's to make sure that he doesn't remain a sole proprietor. That's all it takes, just don't remain a sole proprietor. Don't ever think that a monopoly of this subject is a safe thing to have. It's not safe. It's not safe for man; it's not safe for this universe.

This universe has long been looking for new ways to make slaves. Well, we've got some new ways to make slaves here. Let's see that none are made.

Now it's fortunate that we are able to make Clears as fast as we can make them. It's very, very fortunate. Because black Dianetics, as most destructive things work in this universe, could work a lot faster than the old-time techniques - work really fast. Nowadays - get this - you can use creative processing; the process of using mock-ups will flip out a PDH without ever touching it or addressing it. Isn't that fascinating. You can knock a PDH to pieces with fifteen minutes of processing. And it takes longer than that to put one in.

Another condition could exist, a PDH could be so - a pain-drug- hypnosis - they knock the fellow out, they drug him - could be laid in with great rapidity. But it could be laid in so strongly that the individual is rendered dead. Or non compos mentis from there on and thus out of communication. That individual is no menace to anybody. He's either completeravingly gone, out of communication, and look.. or he's dead, and a bullet does the same thing. So it's not a good weapon, really. Because if he's able.. if he suddenly starts acting peculiarly or doing things which completely alter any pattern he has had in the past, or if he is doing things which look like they are vaguely bad, then how easy it is. You can get ahold of him. You'll find almost any preclear can be given creative processing. And you could get ahold at him and flip the PDH out. That's interesting, isn't it? In other words, you can take 'em out as fast as they lay 'em down.

Therefore we really do have the remedy before the assault weapon is produced. Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's uh.. 1984?
Yes,yes, that's wonderful. That would be, could be, the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence. Well it's all right in this offhand age to just brush things aside and say, "Well, it's of no importance, no importance, really,and.. let's not be dramatic the way people are being about the atom bomb." Actually the atom bomb isn't as serious as this subject. It's just a MEST weapon. And, it's all right to be very offhand, and very cheerful and so on, and - like the little boy whistling in the dark says, "No ghosts or boogymen exist." - Well, this boogyman does exist.

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 and CoS
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:25 am 
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So I wonder, then, if Hubbard actually thinks the SPs are "Big Brother"? And that Scientologists are the only hope?

What's that quote? "If there is any hope, it will be with the Proles..." (Proletariats)

***

Shame on L. Ron Hubbard, saying, "poor old George Orwell"! So condescending!

***

It is interesting, isn't it? You have the orgs and the Narconon wards with their portraits of L. Ron Hubbard everywhere, just as there were portraits of Big Brother.

The "Inner Party" wants to dehumanize people because they're evil and love power (they don't even pretend to be good -- O'Brien tortures Winston Smith when Smith tries to rationalize that the Inner Party is doing what they do for the good of man).

I think getting rid of one's reactive mind is akin to dehumanizing one's self.

And from that close friend I had who is a Scientologist, I know he considered detachment from his feelings an ultimate success. I consider it a failure.

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 and CoS
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:49 am 
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I love when great old threads like this one are dug up.

I think 1984 is the perfect metaphor/analogy for $cientology.

When you read the brainwashing manual it reminds you of Karl Marx's communist manifesto, and both of these books describe a philosophy about a police state, which 1984 is basically a story about people living in that police state.

Anyone who's ever spent time on the inside can tell you about how every experience makes you feel like you're playing a role in 1984.

I think anyone who wants to understand the cult should see 1984 and at least attempt to read both The Brainwashing Manual and The Communist Manifesto.

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 and CoS
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:55 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNHbObo50TI
Quote:
This video features an audio clip of L. Ron Hubbard from his Philadelphia Doctorate Course lecture, tape #20.

This short section of audio has been deleted from current versions of the course tapes, for reasons which will become obvious once you listen to the clip! David Miscavige ordered the removal of this clip, once again, showing he is not averse to "squireling" the criminally convicted cult of Scientology's so-called 'tech'.

Quote:
........ "Therefore we really do have the remedy before the assault weapon is produced. Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's uh.. 1984? Yes, yes, that's wonderful. That would be, could be, the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence. Well it's all right in this offhand age to just brush things aside and say, "Well, it's of no importance, no importance, really, and.. let's not be dramatic the way people are being about the atom bomb." Actually the atom bomb isn't as serious as this subject. It's just a MEST weapon. And, it's all right to be very offhand, and very cheerful and so on, and - like the little boy whistling in the dark says, "No ghosts or boogymen exist." - Well, this boogyman does exist. It's a very simple remedy. And that's just make sure that the remedy is passed along. That's all. Don't hoard it. Don't hold it. And if you ever do use any Black Dianetics, use it on the guy who pulled Scientology out of sight and made it so it wasn't available. Because he's the boy who would be electing himself "the new order". We don't need any more new orders - all those orders as far as I'm concerned have been filled."

L Ron Hubbard
Philadelphia Doctorate Course (6th Dec 1952) Tape #20


Someone's youtube video essay (Uploaded by LeftyBlue on 24 Jan 2010).....
Scientology and Orwell's "1984"
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpXbpMhnqNk
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzlO8SlfXd8

So, you have two angles on the topic there. Hubbard's notion that only bad use of Dianetics would lead to a world worse than Orwell's 1984. Then you have the outside observer's view that this in fact what it is already like inside scientology (or inside the mind of some indoctrinated scientologists), depending on what stage of the book/movie you're at.

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 and CoS
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:30 pm 
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Sponge wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNHbObo50TI
Quote:
This video features an audio clip of L. Ron Hubbard from his Philadelphia Doctorate Course lecture, tape #20.

This short section of audio has been deleted from current versions of the course tapes, for reasons which will become obvious once you listen to the clip! David Miscavige ordered the removal of this clip, once again, showing he is not averse to "squireling" the criminally convicted cult of Scientology's so-called 'tech'.

Quote:
........ "Therefore we really do have the remedy before the assault weapon is produced. Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's uh.. 1984? Yes, yes, that's wonderful. That would be, could be, the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence. Well it's all right in this offhand age to just brush things aside and say, "Well, it's of no importance, no importance, really, and.. let's not be dramatic the way people are being about the atom bomb." Actually the atom bomb isn't as serious as this subject. It's just a MEST weapon. And, it's all right to be very offhand, and very cheerful and so on, and - like the little boy whistling in the dark says, "No ghosts or boogymen exist." - Well, this boogyman does exist. It's a very simple remedy. And that's just make sure that the remedy is passed along. That's all. Don't hoard it. Don't hold it. And if you ever do use any Black Dianetics, use it on the guy who pulled Scientology out of sight and made it so it wasn't available. Because he's the boy who would be electing himself "the new order". We don't need any more new orders - all those orders as far as I'm concerned have been filled."

L Ron Hubbard
Philadelphia Doctorate Course (6th Dec 1952) Tape #20


Someone's youtube video essay (Uploaded by LeftyBlue on 24 Jan 2010).....
Scientology and Orwell's "1984"
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpXbpMhnqNk
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzlO8SlfXd8

So, you have two angles on the topic there. Hubbard's notion that only bad use of Dianetics would lead to a world worse than Orwell's 1984. Then you have the outside observer's view that this in fact what it is already like inside scientology (or inside the mind of some indoctrinated scientologists), depending on what stage of the book/movie you're at.


Thanks for those YT clips. Nothing beats listening to hubbard sink himself/scientology

Hip Hip!

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"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 and CoS
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:11 am 
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This video by Radio Paul, re: Narconon is of course relevant to 1984 Narconon (though no longer to Trois-Riveres being open! :)) but also to Scientology in general.

http://youtu.be/7keDiEG4s7k

Excellent work, RP!

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