Hubbard's Soft-Core Gay Pron

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curiosity
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Hubbard's Soft-Core Gay Pron

Post by curiosity » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:46 pm

This is a continuation of the thread started by J. Swift titled “Was Hubbard Sexually Molested as a Child?� Swift’s hypothesis is fascinating because it has long been clear to some of us that Hubbard was a self-repressing gay or bisexual with serious sexual issues that he never resolved, and this strongly affected some of his social engineering theories and policies that he created for Scientology. Signs of Hubbard’s strongly-repressed homosexuality/bisexuality include his outrageous generalities about gay people in the books Dianetics and Science of Survival (which are common to closeted gays/bisexuals who feel that they need to prove to themselves and to others that they are straight), and his life-long preoccupation with adult-adolescent gay sex that he sporadically mentioned in his Scientology writings, and then made abundantly clear in his 10-volume Mission Earth story written near the end of his life. When I posted these observations on J. Swift’s thread, I was asked for quotes, so here they are, pulled at random as I skimmed along. I know that I have missed some episodes. Mission Earth contains both homosexual and heterosexual soft-core porn, but even many of the heterosexual events focus on the sexual qualities of the men, especially their physical desirability and penis size. Hubbard was especially preoccupied with “pretty� men and boys, and males who were well-endowed. Let me say that I have no problem with Hubbard having been gay or bisexual, and I have nothing against soft-core gay porn. In fact, I enjoyed Mission Earth as a Saturday afternoon-matinee type of story. It is basically a swashbuckling space opera story in the style of 1950’s pulp fiction with satire about corruption, politics, and sex. (I also seem to be one of the few people in the world who actually enjoyed Travolta’s movie Battlefield Earth on the same basis. I went to see it on a Saturday afternoon when it came out.) What I do not like, and the only reason I am posting here, is that Hubbard was such destructive hypocrite about it by not changing his anti-gay statements in Dianetics and Science of Survival before he died in 1986. As a result, he left behind what is essentially hate literature with its advocacy of social quarantines and eradication of civil rights for gay people. The irony is not only Hubbard’s own obvious homosexuality, but that he also claims to have been Cecil Rhodes in a past life, and Rhodes is regarded by a number of historians to have been a gay man, as well as the overseer of the soldiers who created the world’s first modern-style concentration camps during the Boer Wars. Anyway, here are the quotes. Items in [brackets] are my own comments and insertions. All quotes are taken from the first hardcover edition of the Mission Earth 10-volume series:
To start out with, the main character is a scheming psychologically-conflicted male spy named Soltan Gris who tells the story from a first-person perspective. The actual hero of the story is Jettero Heller who has qualities Hubbard liked to envision in himself: Heller belonged to a group of “combat engineers� who were known as “the daredevils of the [space] Fleet.� (v. 1, p. 10). Hubbard lets us know that Heller was “a tall, very good-looking fellow, extremely well built.� (v. 1, p. 23). Jettero’s living quarters had been decorated by other people in an “exquisite� (v. 1, p. 77) manner with rugs that were collectors’ items, and “the whole place harmonized together with beautiful taste.� (v. 1, p. 77). Jettero is described this way by Soltan Gris: “He was very good-looking, even in sleep, which is unusual. He was a very masculine fellow but he was pretty, too.� Later Gris says of Heller, “Yes, he was quite a figure. He looked like some big woods God…Come to think of it, he resembles that statue in the Voltar….Hey! I thought, what the Devils is the matter with me, I’m no man-lover…� (p. 154-155). Later a young doctor says to a naked Jettero who is lying on an examination table, “’…you are certainly extremely well built. And equipped [meaning penis size].’� Adds Gris, “And it was true, unfortunately, what he said of Heller. He was a very muscular, well-proportioned athlete and he was very well equipped.� (v. 1, p. 492). Although Heller is portrayed as 100% hetero and has a female love interest (the Countess Krak), at one point he is brought into an expensive New York whorehouse, and the following conversation takes place:
“Now, this place is full of good-looking women,� said Vantagio, “and a good-looking kid with muscles like yours will have them swarming at you….�
“Do you have boys here?� said Heller.
“Cripes no!� exploded Vantagio.
(v. 2, p. 245).
The story never explains why Heller asks about the whorehouse having boys, unless I missed a reference earlier. During this same episode, the story reveals that Heller may have only been a teenager, or was “underage,� at least according to the perception of the people in the whorehouse, so the prostitutes are told not to touch Heller:
“Now listen,� said Vantagio, raising his voice to be heard, “he’s underage as you can plainly see. He’s jail bait!� (v. 2, p. 246).
Heller is also referred to on the same page by some characters as a “young boy� and “far too young for their [i.e., the prostitutes’] general taste.� (v.2, p. 246). We therefore have Hubbard ascribing admirable sexual qualities to a probable 16 or 17 year-old, or at least someone who looked to be that age to others.
[As an aside, let me point out that David Miscavage was cute as a teenager if you look at the picture of him by Hubbard during a filming. If I recall correctly, Miscavage once said that he had been picked by surprise to be part of Hubbard’s crew at Gold when he was that age. (His parents were Scientologists and would no doubt have been thrilled at the honor of their son being chosen to be so close to their Commodore). Miscavage’s “pretty� looks and smaller-than-normal stature would have made him look even younger than he was, and the kind of youth that would be attractive to a man with that kind of interest. This is not to say that anything sexual necessarily happened between Hubbard and Miscavage, but it might indicate that Hubbard enjoyed having a “pretty� youth like that around. Also, as I recall, Hubbard wrote or said somewhere that he had developed memory-burying techniques better than any possessed by psychiatrists or those who did pain-drug-hypnosis. What I am about to say is sheer speculation and there is no proof that I know of, but is it possible that Hubbard might have sexually abused young male Sea Org members and used techniques to bury their memories of it? After reading Mission Earth, I have to wonder.]
Anyway, back to Mission Earth…
One frequently recurring character is “Too-Too� who is introduced this way: “Endow [a male character] had a weakness: pretty boys!…These two boys were nicknamed ‘Too-Too’ and ‘Oh Dear.’ Their real names are Twolah and Odur….They fell in love, one with an elderly male professor of cellology, the other with the dean of males….They were eminently fitted for my purpose: they were very pretty. I would shortly wipe the amusement from their girlish faces.� (v.1, p. 274)
The two boys are given a mission by the conniving Gris:“…you will pretty yourselves up and display yourselves so that each one of you, by turns, becomes his beloved.� V. 1, p. 275. Gris blackmails them into their roles, which is what Gris says Earth psychology is all about—blackmail and extortion. He then goes on, “…there are exact states and phases in all boys and males. It says so right in the Earth textbooks. First they are oral passive, then they are oral erotic, then they are anal passive after which they become anal erotic. This is followed by what is called ‘latency’ and finally genitalia is arrived at. So these two boys were fixated in the development stage of anal erotic.� V.1, p. 276.
The boys are not happy about their mission, QUOTE:
“Blubbering. More blowing. Finally Too-Too said, ‘But I hear he [Endow] is too big! [meaning penis size]�
‘Yes, I know, you poor thing. Here is some grease.� v. 1, p. 332.
When the two boys return from one of their missions, one of them makes it clear that Lord Endow probably had sex with him: “’The minute he saw me, he said, ‘Oh, how darling!’ Then he said, “your trousers seem a little tight. Come into my bathroom so I can…’� (v.3, p. 177) Later Gris says of the boy, “He looked smug, the way homos will. I hate homos. You can’t trust them.� (v. 3, p. 178) The joke is that Gris is unknowingly in love with a male transvestite as will be discussed below.
Another minor character is introduced who is also used as an unwitting tool of Gris. He is a big hulking man who was disciplined for molesting “small Turkish boys� at least a half a dozen times. (v. 3. P. 185). Gris wants to film him sodomizing Too-Too for blackmail purposes:
“There was a sudden screech from Too-Too!
“A curse came from the big bird, an order to lie still.
“I curled my lip in disgust as Too-Too began to moan.
…
“Then there was an explosive curse from the big bird.
“Too-Too screeched in ecstasy.�
“Then I hard a scramble and a loud kiss!
…
“I opened the door.
“Too-Too was standing there with his arms around the big brute.�
(v. 3, p. 186-187)
After it is over, Gris remarks how the brute kept pawing Too-Too, “who wasn’t complaining.� (v. 3, p. 187) Too-Too continued to drool even after the man left. (v. 3, p. 187).
Volume 3 introduces a transvestite character, Utanc. “She� is a Turkish dancing girl that Soltan Gris has purchased as a sort of slave girl/singer/dancer/companion. The running joke in the story is that Soltan thinks that this really is a woman, but the reader figures out that it is a man whose true sexual interest is in two little boys that are her servants and with whom she likes to share baths. Hubbard devotes 35 consecutive pages to Gris and Utanc (v. 3, pp. 34-69). Gris is wildly smitten with her and her beauty: “the nakedness in between [her jacket and pantaloons] was alive!� (v. 3, p. 41). “Her stomach muscles bunched and writhed and her hips began to grind! O, my Gods! It was enough to drive a man MAD!� (v.3, p. 41). Utanc performs a sensuous dance, and Gris declares, “I had never before in my life been so aroused.� (v. 3, p. 42). Finally, after Utanc convinces Gris to buy her some expensive gifts, she services him sexually. Understand that this is a gay sex scene between two men, one of whom is a transvestite:
“’No, no, she whispered. “There is no need for me to udnress. I am too shy. This is your night and your pleasure’
“She kissed me on the mouth!
“I felt like I would faint with pleasure!�
“Her tongue pried my lips apart and sought the inmost raches of my mouth.
“She sucked my willing tongue out and her lips drew upon it and her teeth lightly held it.
“I was going into a daze of pleasure.�
(v.3, p. 57)
Utanc kisses other parts of Gris’ body, and finally reaches his genitals:
“’Darling, darling,� she was whsipering. And then, ‘The mouth is everything.’
“…She kissed down my thighs.
“Suddenly all the blackness around me was a vortex, pulling me in as though I were being swirled right down, helpless with sensuous pleasure.
“I floated suspended in joy amongst the stars.
“While lightning seemed to flash across the whole universe.�
(v. 3, p. 58
That was not the end of it. She got Gris to climax a second time:
“And her mouth once more began its journey down my body to culmination in sublime ecstasy. It seemed to me that never before in my life had I ever had sex….Nothing, absolutely nothing in Heavens or on Earth had felt that good before!� (v. 3, p. 59)
Despite this, Utanc continues to enjoy her privacy with the boys, and Gris listens in through a bug in her room. Utanc sings to the boys about them washing her, kissing and hugging her, and “Then we will go in the bedroom, And I’ll teach you more lovely games.� (v. 3, p. 253). Once in the bedroom she sings another song of their little feet on her stomach, and then words that apparently describe what Utanc would do to the boys, which sounds like deep sexual penetration followed by climax…?:
“Get it in, get it in, deep, deep, deep.
Up you go, up you go, bloom, bloom, bloom.
Now you come, now you come, boom, boom, BOOM!�
(v.3, p. 254)
Gris then wonders, “What in blazes was going on in there? …I could hear some little squeals. Laughter? Delight? They surely weren’t squeals of pain! Too cheerful. More like ecstasy? Delight. It was delight.� (v. 3, p. 254).
In a later episode, she sings to the boys, “You may be small, But oh, you’re good. I would eat you, If I could. Why should hunger, Be in fashion, When you’re there, To slake my passion?� (v. 4, p. 282-283). This is followed by rustling of bed sheets and squeals of delight.
The interesting aspect to all of this man-boy sex in Hubbard’s book is that all of the boys and teenagers who are sexually involved with the men are portrayed as strongly desiring such. This is made evident when Utanc’s true identity as a man is finally revealed to Gris, who vomits at the discovery. Utanc is really Colonel Boris Gaylov of the KGB. (v.8, p. 103) Gris finally undersands, “It seemed that Gaylov had made the two little boys into catamites [boys used for sexual purposes], and each night and sometimes in the day had practiced many sexual perversions with them to satisfy his lust…..it seemed that what the little boys were upset about was that they weren’t getting it anymore, now that Utanc had disappeared….The two small boys said that unless their mothers let them go find Utanc they were going to run away and find other men to sleep with, and if they were prevented from doing that they were going to kill themselves the very first chance they got!� (v. 8, p. 137). The Too-Too character was also promiscuous with men.
Lesbian sex scene/orgy v. 6, p. 26-36. It seems that Gris often winds up having sex with gays, male and female.
Another interesting character in the story is Teenie: a promiscuous teenage girl who is taught sex by lesbians, and who eventually starts her own escort service with teenage males. Teenie is also promiscuous and wants sex with adults. (See v. 6, 285-287). She keeps trying to seduce Gris, including by spreading her knees apart with no underwear underneath. She had “too-big lips.� (v. 6, p. 317). She told Gris about a school psychologist who “had a lot of very mentally sick boys in the school. They were classified as oversexed. And he used to line them up in his office and go down on them [i.e., perform oral intercourse] to cool them off. And every day or two he’d get an overload of cases and he’d send and get me excused from class so I could come in and help. He’d stand and watch. There were so many of those boys sometimes that I could hardly get my breath from one before another had to be done. It was a fast clinical line, let me tell you. And some of those boys were fifteen and sixteen and pretty foamy. You just couldn’t help swallowing!� (v. 6, p. 321)
Teenie is a significant character throughout volume 7, and she befriends a young man named Madison who only desires sex with this mother. Although Gris rebuffs Teenie’s sexual advances, she manages to get him in positions in which he appears to be sexually attacking her. These are secretly photographed, and the photos are used to blackmail him into participating in a campaign aimed at “de-homosexualizing homos.� (v. 7, p. 56-57). One blackmailer tells him, “And you will do your part or go to a Federal pen and be raped daily by the male inmates.� (v. 7, p. 57).
Teenie makes another reference to “going down on boys.� (v. 7, p. 60).
Gris interviews the evil psychologist/psychiatrist who participated in these acts. He tells Gris, “Why would I want a little girl to go down on me when I have my hands absolutely full of young boys that have to be converted to homos? Why would you use girls to do that when you’ve go so many boys to do it?� (v. 7, p. 67)
A musical group is called the “Hoochi-Hoochi Boys,� which is a sexualized term. (v.7, p. 279)
Even though Hubbard revels in gay and kinky sex in the book, he has his positive characters say how disgusting it all is. “This perverted planet!� cried the Countess Krak. “It’s just as if they never heard of normal sex!� (v. 8, p. 138). This makes me as a reader wonder what kind of sex Hubbard had been exposed to and had engaged in during his lifetime, since the types of sexual escapades he enjoys detailing in his book are not within the experience of most people. Hubbard had a history of being part the occult OTO with its homosexual rituals, and J. Swift has presented an interest hypothesis about Hubbard’s youth in the company of “Snake� Thompson, etc. There may have been good reason why Hubbard would so vigorously cover up his homosexuality/bisexuality even after societal attitudes had liberalized—he had perhaps engaged in many homosexual acts that would be highly disreputable, even in the minds of many gay people. Also, victims of sexual abuse are often very ashamed of the experiences even if they were not at fault. In Mission Earth, Gris is confronted with the dilemma of proving that his is not gay when the Countess Krak threatens him with prosecution for homosexuality under the laws of the galactic Confederacy: “How the Hells did you prove that you were not a homo? It was almost impossible to prove that you were not anything. The only evidence you could collect was that you were things.� (v. 8, p. 138). This may have been the formula that Hubbard used to cover his homosexual interests, i.e., he engaged in a hyper-heterosexuality, and maybe also some Scientology celebrities rumored to be gay…? Hubbard’s formula is, “prove� that you are heterosexual—don’t try to disprove that you are gay.
Volume 9 has more of Too-Too. This time Teenie and other characters are on a galactic ship. Teenie is making money by selling Too-Too’s sexual services to the crew. The Madison character sees:
“There, face-down on the bed, was a pretty-looking boy. He had makeup on his face. A beatific smile was on his lips. A crew member was standing there, getting back into his clothes. The man leered at Captain Bolz and, buckling his belt, swaggered out. …
“‘[To Teenie] But what are you doing with that boy?’
“’Oh, him?…He’s just about the most nympho catamite you ever did see. And when he’s hopped up on marijuana he can take it all day and all night, too! He’s a sponge! Kind of cute, too. You want a piece?’� (v.9, p. 42)
Teenie also explains how she taught Too-Too “a few little tricks he could do and when he got back here he pleased Lord Endow no end. The goofy old (bleepard) went absolutely delirious over Too-Too.� (v. 9, p. 67).
Teenie becomes elevated to the title Queen Teenie, and there is a long ceremonial scene involving a youth gay orgy starting v. 9, p.74 and going to page 91. “…small groups of boys had been coming in the vast front door….In the main they were handsome or pretty, and a few wore powder and paint….They appeared to range in age from eight to fifteen, but one couldn’t really tell with these long-lived people. There must be two hundred of them here by now…� (v.9, p75-76). There was marijuana smoking. Teenie tells these young male students of hers that she has a graphic illustration of the naked male body, and once again, there is a reference to oversized genitals: “Now, I must admit that the artist has made the (bleep) too large for my taste.’ She turned to them and smiled a too-big smile. There was pleased laughter at her joke.’ ‘But somehow getting around that point’—more laughter…� (v. 9, p. 79). Teenie then calls for a volunteer to engage in a demonstration. “Instantly fifty hands went flailing toward her.� [Again, Hubbard’s continuing theme, common to boy-lovers, that the boys are eager for sex.] Teenie made her choice: “A boy who appeared to be ab out fifteen slide eagerly under the red ropes. He was quite pretty, with a clear white skin.� (v.9, p. 80) Two boys then stripped him naked. Teenie touched the boy near his spin and got an “instant response� which is clearly an erection because when she then touches a spot on the lower outside right thigh, “THE RESPONSE DEFLATED!� (v.9, p. 80, capitalization in the original). She touched the boy a couple of more times, getting another “response� which “GREW BIGGER AND STAYED!� (v. 9, p. 80, capitalization in the original). She then “touched a spot at the lower center of the boy’s pubic hair. His eyes rolled up, his chin thrust forward, he gave an ecstatic groan. HE (BLEEPULATED!)� (v. 9, p. 81, capitalization in the original). The audience gasped and groaned, then wildly applauded. She touched him again, got another “response� and another “(bleepulation.)� The boy has a third erection, but this time he simply drops to his knees and vows grateful allegiance to Teenie. All of the boys then smoke marijuana. Some performers perform a song that Hubbard provides the lyrics to, among them, “Oh, a soldier’s life is the life for me…For it is the men that I enjoy….The best there is, I find, is boy!…The enemy I do not mind…Can go on in my behind…All passionate and hard as rocks…Eager to slide in my buttocks…And let me (bleep) and (bleep) in thee…� (v.9, p. 84).
The scene does not end there. Teenie chose another volunteer. This time it is a very handsome boy who looked to be about sixteen who came in “striding with a lordly, springing gait. His clothing shimmered in all colors of the rainbow.� (v.9, p.87). Too-Too is also chosen to participate, and Teenie starts lecturing them about the important role of the sphincter muscle and how the boys can learn to make it go “round and round.� (v. 9, p. 89). She then has Too-Too demonstrate this skill by having the 16-year-old held firm by other boys so that could not move at all, his erection inside Too-Too, and Too-Too performing the technique on him. The 16-year-old’s face was “wreathed in ecstasy.� (v. 9, p. 90). The teenager finally let out a scream of ecstasy. (v. 9, p. 90). The other boys have become so aroused by all of this, that they “fell upon one another like wolves in heat. The music and marijuana and the tableaux, the pulsing colored lights, had driven them made with lust that no longer could be restrained.� (v. 9, p. 91).
The theme of large penis size is also brought out in a story thread in which Gris gets his genitals enlarged, and there are one or two scenes with women in which the women “ooh and ahh� over it, again putting the attention on the man. In v. 9, p 256, a female character says, “I was a bodyguard for the richest whorehouse madam on all Mistin. I’m telling you, there was five hundred guys, half-naked, handsome as Gods, standing there in front of that palace just begging to (bleep). And they were the heaviest hung birds I ever seen.�
Hubbard makes it sound as though gay pederasty is a foundation of Freudian theory, and this might make us wonder what “Snake� Thompson or someone else had taught Hubbard as a youth about Freud, perhaps to get into the young Hubbard’s pants as hypothesized by J. Swift? In v.10, p 292-3, a demented doctor says to a male character, “You will NEVER find any remission of symptoms unless you ride roughshod over your repression and find yourself a nice young man and practice, unremittingly, fellatio.� I stared at him. “…I am giving you pure Freud. Your insanity can be cured only by a life of dedication to making love only to young boys and men—orally, of course.�
At the end of Mission Earth, Hubbard seems to become a moral preacher about all of this by speaking through his characters. Not only do all of the gay characters and catamites get killed off, but one character repeats similar thoughts to those of Countess Krak: “Oh, sex and sex and sex…The place to get the REAL information is EARTH! It is a paradise of wallowing, rampant sex perversion! Wonderful!� (v.10, p. 312). Again, as a reader, I have to wonder: Is this all just satire? (Yes, maybe.) Is Hubbard unusually prudish since most people do not engage in the kind of sexual scenarios? Or did Hubbard have a very rough sexual history, perhaps not all of his choosing when he was a youth, and this resulted in his attitudes that he could never change? Whatever the answer may be, his moralism is repeated in v.10, p. 314 in a poem composed by Hubbard “ODE TO EARTH�:
And who, pray tell, would show aversion
To lovely butt and mouth perversion?
Sex that converts girls to (bleepches).
Did I say sex? Oh, you excel!
Sex is the thing you do so well!
Never has such concentration
Been leveled at self-gratification!
Anyway, those are the requested quotes that I found during a quick skim-through. To see how they are integrated into the story, people should, of course, read the books themselves. And again, it is not that I object to this literature or that Hubbard wrote it. I am only objecting to that fact that he appears to never face up to his own feelings and possible history in a mature way. As a result, he created an organization that is dangerous because if it achieves the political power it was programmed by Hubbard to achieve, it would take away the civil rights of a large number of people only because of their personalities, put them into “permanent� quarantine, including the group of people that he clearly belonged to, namely, gays and bisexuals. Comparisons to Hitler are admittedly tiresome, but it is so apt in this situation, because Hitler was also a closet gay who advocated “quarantine� of “social undesirables�including other gays. Hitler copied what “Hubbard� had done in Hubbard’s alleged past life as Cecil Rhodes: they both built concentration camp systems. Scientologists need to grow up. We can still have compassionate understanding for Hubbard and for the events in his life that may have caused him to manifest the attitudes that he did, but that is not the same as going along with his agenda.

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J. Swift
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Post by J. Swift » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:44 am

curiosity: Thank you for taking the time and effort to locate and post these quotes. These quotes embody such heavy and overt themes of homoeroticism that the books could be made into gay porn.

The Mission Earth series just begs for a doctoral candidate doing work in psychology to do a thesis: Homoerotic Themes in L. Ron Hubbard's Fiction versus Homosexual Repression in Scientology: A Contrast of Celebration and Denial.

If someone had just said to LRH, "Look, Nancy, you're gay: deal with it," the world of Scientology would have been so much different. However, as being gay is a crime in Scientology, then Scientology was one big closet case wjen it began in 1950. I wonder if, when Scientology collapses, we will hear the real story about things and have some of our suspicions confirmed?

There is a definite Ph.D. thesis for some savvy young researcher who wants to turn their thesis into a book and movie. If I were 22 I would do it!
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Last edited by J. Swift on Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Hubbard's Mushroom » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:55 am

Oh my God!
L. Ron Hubbard was a pervert!

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'Alert'
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Post by 'Alert' » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:57 am

The whole time I studied and 'practiced' the 'tech', I was ALWAYS fascinated why Elron had such a hate for homosexuality..after leaving CoS and doing some REAL research and reading many reports and thesis on it (haters of gayness) it became all too obvious that Elron was a closet queen and never 'dealt' with it.
Thanks for some more truly enlightening 'data' curiosity and Swift.This is another post that will have CoS trying to 'handle' questions from within.
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55

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Post by butwehave11 » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:07 am

This is still a fascinating subject, and I thank you for taking the time and energy to do this. It's extremely odd that people didn't become very uncomfortable at readng this, I really felt uncomfortable looking at it, it's wrong on every level, it doesn't sound as if it's coming from a satire point of view, mainly because of the ways things are presented, usually when that is the case you have a protagonist looking on disgusted, but here I see none of that.
I fart in your general direction!

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Post by curiosity » Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:46 am

Glad to be of service. I agree with J. Swift that if someone had had a good "you're gay, deal with it" talk with Hubbard, Scientology might be very different. I suspect that it would have been more tolerant, less paranoid, and Hubbard might have even been able to beat his addiction to amphetamines. And maybe his son Quentin would still be alive. I certainly don't hate Hubbard, and I have forgiven him in my own mind, but Scientologists need to get real. And please, if you are gay or bisexual, whether in the closet or not, do NOT participate in Scientology or support it. That's like giving bullets to the hatemonger who wants to kill you. The Scientology church can say what it likes about accepting gays, and Scientology celebrities can issue press releases saying how much they appreciate their gay fans, but as long as Scientology keeps publishing and selling Dianetics: Modern Science of Mental Health, and Science of Survival with their vicious anti-gay generalizations, Scientologists are making themselves your enemies no matter what they want to think. How can any rational person, including Hollywood celebrities, think that they are tolerant and accepting people when they support and promote a religion that publishes that kind of literature. They are simply turning themselves into the worst kind of hypocrites.

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Post by crackers » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:15 am

Anyone else notice that if you switch the "J" in Jettero with the "H" from his last name, you get "Hettero"?

And he's the main character? Hmm.....

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Post by J. Swift » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:19 am

Curiosity, this is of particular interest:
Some performers perform a song that Hubbard provides the lyrics to, among them, “Oh, a soldier’s life is the life for me…For it is the men that I enjoy….The best there is, I find, is boy!…The enemy I do not mind…Can go on in my behind…All passionate and hard as rocks…Eager to slide in my buttocks…And let me (bleep) and (bleep) in thee…� (v.9, p. 84).
I posted in my other thread about the Samurai and Greek traditions of older males, usually military men, initiating boys into sex and keeping boys as submissive sexual partners until the boys reached their teens. In return for their sexual submission, the boys would be trained in the martial arts of the Samurai or the Greek Warrior castes and thereby be prepared for the privileged life of a solider. Sexual submission to an older military man was often the only way that a boy born into a lower caste could move up within the caste system of his culture. This is why, in those cultures, a boy's family would encourage and approve of this type of arrangement because it would benefit the family in the long run.

Whatever happened between LRH and Commander Thompson, and there is anecdotal evidence to suggest sexual molestation, what is certain is that for LRH -- as it is depicted in his fiction -- homosexuality and military service were synonymous.

Another question: Scientologists were expected and even ordered to buy Mission Earth in order to get LRH onto bestseller lists. Wouldn't Hubbard's graphic descriptions of gay sex seem exceptionally strange to Scientologists who were taught that homosexuality was very disordered and aberrant conduct?

Hubbard preaches against homosexuality in Scientology scripture and yet revels in homosexuality in his fictional writing. If we interpret his writings psychoanalytically the only conclusion we can draw is that Hubbard was a homosexual or a bisexual. The matter of a person's sexual orientation is of no consequence to me so long as they are responsible and don't commit crimes. However, it is hypocritical of Hubbard and Scientology to denounce homosexuality as a major sin while celebrating it in Hubbard's fiction. This dichotomy is yet another strange aspect of the very strange cult of Scientology.

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Roan
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Re: Hubbard's Soft-Core Gay Pron

Post by Roan » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:11 am

curiosity wrote: ‘Yes, I know, you poor thing. Here is some grease.� v. 1, p. 332.

...Some performers perform a song that Hubbard provides the lyrics to, among them, “Oh, a soldier’s life is the life for me…For it is the men that I enjoy….The best there is, I find, is boy!…The enemy I do not mind…Can go on in my behind…All passionate and hard as rocks…Eager to slide in my buttocks…And let me (bleep) and (bleep) in thee…� (v.9, p. 84).
:lol: :lol:
Oh, this is just too rich! I'm constantly amazed at the wealth of material that L. Ron and the Bad Seed that he created ($cientology), continue to provide for satire and other amusements. Where is Stanley Kubrick when we need him most?

Signed,
Roan (ROTFLMAO in Orange County)

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Post by hemanoncrack » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:56 am

First off I want to say i'm not a Scn. I do however enjoy his LRH's books and find the stories contained within amusing and fun to read. That said...

I think you may be reading a little too much into the scenes. He does overexaggerate the sex in the Mission Earth series, but everything in those books is overdone(psychologists, Rockecenter, PR firms, college education, etc.). He also goes into great detail on events with converting the lesbians, his time spent with Teenie, and the rape fantasies of his college professor, which are all examples of explicit hetero love. I think it's more of his over the top style in writing satire (the series is marketed as such).

Of course, I can't claim to know his thoughts on the subject as I never met him or read very much on his personal like (besides what I have read on OC) so it could all very well be latent homosexuality. I think there would be more evidence of it in his other books, and I can't remember reading anything like that in Battlefield Earth.

Again, I don't want to come off as defending his crazy cult. I just wanted to point out the other possibility of the stories. I enjoyed the books so much that I felt it neccesary to register an account just to comment!

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Post by Thelma » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:32 am

Hi hemanoncrack. Glad you signed up :P

This conversation actually started on another thread. Curiosity was asked to find samples in the writing to support some of the theories on that thread.

Take a look at this to see where folks are coming from:

viewtopic.php?t=16702

curiosity
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Post by curiosity » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:49 am

Hemanoncrack brings up a good point. Hubbard does indeed exaggerate a great deal in Mission Earth for purposes of humor and satire, not just in the sexual realm, but also in regard to corruption, politics, and psychiatry. Keep in mind, however, that those exaggerations reflect Hubbard's actual thoughts and feelings as he expressed them in his Scientology writings, such as his distaste for psychiatry and psychology, and his ideas about banking and politics. Anyone who is familiar with Hubbard's Scientology writings will instantly recognize that he repeats those same themes and remains consistent in Mission Earth. This is also true of his preoccupation with the subject of gay sex involving boys. He mentioned it in passing at least twice in his Scientology writings that I know of, such as in 1967 (or was it 1976?) in his "Ron's Journal" audiotape. I was also struck in Mission Earth at how the homoeroticism grew stronger and became more explicit as the story progressed, until we have a full-blown 17-page gay orgy scene in the second-to-last volume involving boys between the ages of 8 and 16. I don't think that truly heterosexual writers would be interested enough in such things to write a scene like that and give it such prominence in a book.

Probably the rank-and-file Scientologists who bought Mission Earth figured that Hubbard's purpose was to show how disgusting it all is by repeatedly providing such details, but that is a classic trait of a person with a closeted sexuality: by calling it disgusting, they feel they now have license to freely think and talk about the explicit details of whatever their sexual fantasies are. (And this can also be true of heterosexuals with unusual fantasies.) Scientologists are sadly blind to Hubbard as an overall person by taking him entirely at his word and by putting him on a pedestal. He keeps reminding them how he is mankind's "best friend," how Scientologists are the most ethical people on the planet (which, by implication, makes Hubbard the most ethical of the ethical as their leader and top OT), etc., and so Scientologists cannot see many things about Hubbard that are so obvious to outsiders, especially the things that reveal Hubbard to be a human being with significant "issues" of his own.

I agree with Hemanoncrack that Hubbard is actually a good writer in his genre, and I, too, enjoyed Mission Earth as such a story. I think Hubbard's writing skills play a big role in why Scientologists initially become so loyal--some of his Scientology writings can be very inspiring--at least until the reality of the situation eventually sinks in and causes an overwhelming majority of Scientologists to become disillusioned and quit. In this thread, and in J. Swift's thread that started it, we are playing a game of "connect the dots." Whether those dots are being connected correctly still remains to be seen, but this is how such an examination begins.

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Post by butwehave11 » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:25 am

hemanoncrack wrote:First off I want to say i'm not a Scn. I do however enjoy his LRH's books and find the stories contained within amusing and fun to read. That said...

I think you may be reading a little too much into the scenes. He does overexaggerate the sex in the Mission Earth series, but everything in those books is overdone(psychologists, Rockecenter, PR firms, college education, etc.). He also goes into great detail on events with converting the lesbians, his time spent with Teenie, and the rape fantasies of his college professor, which are all examples of explicit hetero love. I think it's more of his over the top style in writing satire (the series is marketed as such).

Of course, I can't claim to know his thoughts on the subject as I never met him or read very much on his personal like (besides what I have read on OC) so it could all very well be latent homosexuality. I think there would be more evidence of it in his other books, and I can't remember reading anything like that in Battlefield Earth.

Again, I don't want to come off as defending his crazy cult. I just wanted to point out the other possibility of the stories. I enjoyed the books so much that I felt it neccesary to register an account just to comment!
First off I would like to say you are welcome here with your insight into these situations, I have never read the series in itself, I did try listening to book 2 on audio, and I watched Battlefield Earth, which I heard wasn't like the book at all. So anyone here who has actually read these books is certainly welcome with their insight.

I would like you to look at the previous thread that J. Swift made, we came up with a lot of evidence that paints the books and these quotes in a different light. I have another point as well, the explcitness is rather extreme, and possibly many people who read the book would be disgusted and offended at the graphic scenes portrayed within.
I fart in your general direction!

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Post by hemanoncrack » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:51 pm

You know, I actually got the sort of responses I was expecting here! Nobody attacked me for my opinion and some even recognized my comments as viable. That makes me a believer that this site does welcome alternate opinions.

I'll be sure to read the other thread to get the full picture of this "debate" though.

When I first heard about Scientology I was so embarrassed that I was a fan of his books. I had always thought that Dianetics was another one of his fiction books that I never got around to reading. I actually first read ME when I was a teenager so I didn't think too critically of the text.

And to butwehave11 - if you enjoy Sci Fi books give Battlefield Earth a try. It's a hefty read but in my opinion wiorth it. Some parts drag out, but the excitement level is high at other parts.

I will report back after reading the thread :).

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When did L. Ron Hubbard write BE and ME ?

Post by Pippi_le_peu » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:38 pm

I am curious when Ron wrote BattleField Earth and Mission Earth.

Was it in the 1930's or 1940's before Ron developed Dianetics and Scientology? - that miraculous technology for total spiritual freedom.

If not, those writings must have been ejaculated from Ron's turgid quill in copius squirts by one and the same Ron the Philosopher* and Ron the Humanitarian**
Sensing as early as 1950 where this world was headed, L. Ron Hubbard began to search out a means by which, as he wrote, “man can recover to himself some of the happiness, some of the sincerity, some of the love and kindness with which he was created.�

And he went on to provide us with the solutions: ‘Yes, I know, you poor thing. Here is some grease.�

- Abstracted from Scientology website **

Seriously folks! Can you imagine the Buddha regailing his companions with stories like: "Govinda thrust his phosphorescent phallus into Mara's mouth watering mound"" or the Dalai Lama punctuating the somberness of a dharma talk with: "Tenzin rammed his radient rod into her quivering quim?"

I mean, we expect this kind of talk and behavior from the Jimmy Swaggerts, Jim Bakkers, David Khoreshs, Jim Jones, Paris Hiltons, Courtney Loves and Cal Worthingtons of the world --- but from Ron? Say it ain't so!

Scientology must be a miraculous technology if a serious Scientologist can reconcile Ron the Philosopher/Humanitarian magna cum laude with Ron the Novelist magnum cum loudly!



* http://www.scientology.org/html/en_US/l ... index.html
** http://www.scientology.org/html/en_US/l ... index.html

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