ACW
What is the purpose of the Sea Org?

To put ethics in on the planet.

Great purpose, anyone would subscribe to that, except it became to dominate and enslave scientologists.
BB
Ethics actions on ones own determination can be very successfull. Where the purpose is to enhance survival. " Life" as you would put it.

As the latest SS I posted may indicate.

It ended up enforcing the " Now your supposed to's" that earlier LRH was against.

Tech should be put in first. Ethics may then not be needed.
Yes became domination and enslavement.
ACW
What is the purpose of the GO and now OSA?

To make a safe enviroment and handle those outsiders who are against auditing and training taking place.

Again a worthy purpose...except it was used to Fair Game, shut up and destroy upset scio's.
BB
Was a violation of first policy." Maintain friendly relations with the environment and your public. " Its common sense that one violates this policy at ones peril. Violating this is alone enough to bring about the demise of COS. And it will.

ACW
What is the purpose of CMO?

I'm guessing on this one: To enslave everyone by control freakdoming them. To use every means possible to keep their crimes and scio crimes hidden.
BB
Seems a good guess.
ACW
The end product after some 55 years in not a pretty picture.
BB
It has done much to damn clearing tech. The baby
needs resurecting.

Flying Monkyss from Australia?

Are you referring to Eldon Braun or Otto Roos?

Hmmm, duplicious or dichotomous?

Was a violation of first policy." Maintain friendly relations with the environment and your public. " Its common sense that one violates this policy at ones peril. Violating this is alone enough to bring about the demise of COS. And it will.

"Fair Game" - "destroy them utterly" policy both written by LRH.

Or are both correct....its just a matter of who is the friend.

Hitler used the Ethics policies to further his goals.

To build a master race.

Hitler also removed any counter intention or other intention to that goal.

Enforced ethics can be very self serving.

So can "justice"

Hate to do this but here is the big question we all desperately
would like to know. We all know about the dark side to LRH-imposings Maciavellian ethics, exploration of the "dark arts",bullying, greedy, emotionally ill and such and so.

But in your personal opinion Alan, was L.Ron Hubbard:

1. An inherently good man-creating scientology for benevolent purposes who just ran astray at times.

2.Essentially a self indulgent evil guy,the smarmy demon,using us as entertainment who had occasional flourishes of humanity and grace.

3.Recognized a business opportunity and exploited it to its fullest
and slapped a "Religion" sign on the whole mess for tax purposes exclusively.

4. (insert label here)

patiently waiting for years to hear a definitive answer....

And don't let this influence your answer but...
You know first I get hit with the easter bunny thing.
And then I get devastated with the reality of the Santa Claus issue.
(even after I met the guy at a shopping mall, I might add!)

So go easy on me here. I think I've had just about enough of adults playing practical jokes on me for their personal amusement. damn...
And Alan, don't even think about telling me that Ron wasn't the saviour of mankind- reincarnated as Buddah, unless you have some documentation or hard evidence.


Mike




(Message edited by umike on July 10, 2005)

"We are all of us, more or less, the slaves of opinion." -William Hazlitt

Personally, I'll go for "smarmy demon".

I've also heard of this bizarre theory of the
"Three Rons" By Geoffrey Filbert. Where some
type of switcheroo took place.

It's all just too bizarre.

ACW
If anyones interested, maybe one day I'll tell the story of the great schism that occured in Scio in 1982 that led to 35,000 top scio's leaving scio.
BB
I'd sure like to hear this.

Umike asked:

*But in your personal opinion Alan, was L.Ron Hubbard:

*1. An inherently good man-creating scientology for benevolent purposes who just ran astray at times.

The man I worked with in 1962 - 63- Nov. 64 was a good man. He worked 18 hours a day 7 days a week sometimes going non-stop to develop the tech.

I did two original SHBC's. I was on each 12 months. I was the 2nd Class IV with honors on my 1st BC and 1st Class VI with honors on my 2nd BC.

I audited LRH....he made tremendous case gain.

His case was just like anybody elses case.

It was just an assist session.

He audited me......several times....Once formally with a meter and several time coffee shop. He was superb, I made great gains.

*2.Essentially a self indulgent evil guy,the smarmy demon,using us as entertainment who had occasional flourishes of humanity and grace.

I couldn't say that.....though I know the exact point he "flipped" and pretty much what he "flipped" into. (I was there at the moment he flipped, it was in June 1964.) It was a Power Identity....somewhat of Knight Errant type identity. A knight errant goes after bad guys. After awhile everyone becomes the bad guy.

*3.Recognized a business opportunity and exploited it to its fullest
and slapped a "Religion" sign on the whole mess for tax purposes exclusively.

Basically he was forced into this as there was an attempt to outlaw scientology worldwide in 1963. The authorities reasoning given was practicing psychology without a licence. Religion was the only way to beat that.

Hope this helps.

There is a lot more to this - but I hate to type.

"The man I worked with in 1962 - 63- Nov. 64 was a good man."

These Sacred Cult Scriptures show Hubbard's dark side before 1964.


++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++

"You want to know what happens when you clear everybody in that
neighbourhood, the only thing that [Scientology] center can become
used for is a political center. Because by the time you've done
all this, you are the government..."

-- L. Ron Hubbard, lecture 9 January 1962, "Future Org Trends"

++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++

"Once the world is Clear - a nation, a state, a city or a village -
the Scientology-organization in the area becomes its government! And
once this has taken place the only policy accepted as valid is
Scientology policy."

-- L. Ron Hubbard, taped lecture 9 January 1962,
"Future Org Trends"

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++

The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on
somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, will knowing that he is
not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional
decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.

-- L. Ron Hubbard
"A Manual on the Dissemination of Material" (1955)


++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++

Incredulity of our data and validity. This is our finest asset and
gives us more protection than any other single asset. If certain
parties thought we were real we would have infinitely more trouble ...
without a public incredulity we never would have gotten as far as we
have. And now it's too late to be stopped. The protection was
accidental but it serves us very well indeed. Remember that next time
the ignorant scoff.

-- L. Ron Hubbard
HCO[B|PL] (May 15, 1963; perhaps May 11)



++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++

"If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any
organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to
cause them to sue for peace."
- L. Ron Hubbard,
1959

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ACW
The man I worked with in 1962 - 63- Nov. 64 was a good man. He worked 18 hours a day 7 days a week sometimes going non-stop to develop the tech.

I did two original SHBC's. I was on each 12 months. I was the 2nd Class IV with honors on my 1st BC and 1st Class VI with honors on my 2nd BC.

I audited LRH....he made tremendous case gain.

His case was just like anybody elses case.

It was just an assist session.

He audited me......several times....Once formally with a meter and several time coffee shop. He was superb, I made great gains.
BB
For those who don't know, Alan audited John
Mcmasters, to the first official state of clear.

UM
*2.Essentially a self indulgent evil guy,the smarmy demon,using us as entertainment who had occasional flourishes of humanity and grace.

ACW
I couldn't say that.....though I know the exact point he "flipped" and pretty much what he "flipped" into. (I was there at the moment he flipped, it was in June 1964.) It was a Power Identity....somewhat of Knight Errant type identity. A knight errant goes after bad guys. After awhile everyone becomes the bad guy.
BB
I'b be very interested in knowing more. GPM tech
gone wrong?

This what lead to ethics/justice PLs?
UM
*3.Recognized a business opportunity and exploited it to its fullest
and slapped a "Religion" sign on the whole mess for tax purposes exclusively.
ACW
Basically he was forced into this as there was an attempt to outlaw scientology worldwide in 1963. The authorities reasoning given was practicing psychology without a licence. Religion was the only way to beat that.
BB
Church formed in 1954. 1963 was approx date of anderson report. Am I missing something?

Also would you say this justifies some of the
extremes thereafter?
ACW
Hope this helps.

There is a lot more to this - but I hate to type.
BB
Can you dictate.

"It is the nature of ambition to make men liars and cheats, to hide the truth in their breasts, and show, like jugglers, another thing in their mouths, to cut all friendships and enmities to the measure of their own interest, and to make a good countenance without the help of good will."
-Sallust BC 86-34, Roman Historian

Thank you so much Alan. That meant more to me than you know. It re-affirms my belief that anyone who went to such tremendous lengths which he devoted his life to was after all
was not the Monster that critics would convienently speak.

Which creates a complex equation for the Non-SCN critics to
deal with.

You wrote:

"The man I worked with in 1962 - 63- Nov. 64 was a good man. He worked 18 hours a day 7 days a week sometimes going non-stop to develop the tech."

How comforting that is to know he was regarded this way in earlier better days.

And quite frankly that dispells etremeists view that
this whole body of work was created solely for financial
gain with no regard for anyones well being.

You made my day, to say the least.

Mike

ARCHIVE

(Message edited by umike on July 10, 2005)

"Stupidity is the friend of evil."
-Source Unknown

Alan and Umike,

Here's the perfect song for you:

(Sung to the tune of American Pie)

"The Saga Begins"

A long, long time ago
In a galaxy far away
Naboo was under an attack
And I thought me and Qui-Gon Jinn
Could talk the federation into
Maybe cutting them a little slack
But their response, it didn't thrill us
They locked the doors and tried to kill us
We escaped from that gas
Then met Jar Jar and Boss Nass
We took a bongo from the scene
And we went to Theed to see the Queen
We all wound up on Tatooine
That's where we found this boy...

Oh my my this here Anakin guy
May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry
And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye
Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"

Did you know this junkyard slave
Isn't even old enough to shave
But he can use the Force, they say
Ahh, do you see him hitting on the queen
Though he's just nine and she's fourteen
Yah, he's probably gonna marry her someday
Well, I know he built C-3PO
And I've heard how fast his pod can go
And we were broke, it's true
So we made a wager or two
He was a prepubescent flyin' ace
And the minute Jabba started off that race
Well, I knew who would win first place
Oh yes, it was our boy

We started singin' ...
My my this here Anakin guy
May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry
And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye
Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"

Now we finally got to Coruscant
The Jedi Council we knew would want
To see how good the boy could be
So we took him there and we told the tale
How his midi-chlorians were off the scale
And he might fulfill that prophecy
Oh, the Council was impressed, of course
Could he bring balance to the Force?
They interview the kid
Oh, training they forbid
Because Yoda sensed in him much fear
And Qui-Gon said "Now listen here"
"Just stick it in your pointy ear"
"I still will teach this boy"

He was singin' ...
My my this here Anakin guy
May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry
And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye
Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"

We caught a ride back to Naboo
'Cause Queen Amidala wanted to
I frankly would've liked to stay
We all fought in that epic war
And it wasn't long at all before
Little Hotshot flew his plane and saved the day
And in the end some Gunguns died
Some ships blew up and some pilots fried
A lot of folks were croakin'
The battle droids were broken
And the Jedi I admire most
Met up with Darth Maul and now he's toast
Well, I'm still here and he's a ghost
I guess I'll train this boy

And I was singin' ...
My my this here Anakin guy
May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry
And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye
Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"

We were singin' ...
My my this here Anakin guy
May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry
And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye
Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"