I am not an authority on anything as relates to this website. I don’t feel that I am qualified to start another thread… but I am doing it anyway.

Something along the lines of, “Really Rebuilding Your Life� or “Reversing Scientologic Programming (subtitle: Keep your freezone stuff out of here we want to seriously discuss breaking the connection… no baby going out with the bathwater here!

The really serious and valuable conversation is how we got out, how we made lives, way beyond the trolls who want to drag us back in…

Breaking from the church is one thing… dissembling the programming altogether is another.

Unpacking the programming and laying it out on the table for all to see is for me, a valuable, laudable, read.

Let’s discuss how we did this, for all to see!

One thing I asked myself early on after getting out was, as an OT, “What must I have gone through to have believed what I was reading/solo auditing?� IOW, what must have happened to me to believe and solo-audit OT III, Complete, and be announced and SPEAK to the other sycophants in the room. (What I did)

After the stick was in my ass… I then started researching the trail of what I had gone through prior to Power, Clearing Course, OT 1 à OT 7. (We’re talking 70’s)

The ideal… the conceptual… of what we could be! What planet Earth could be.

Then a stick up my ass… I started looking for answers. I found them in the three critical books released back then… GOLD.

For me, researching the cult’s history, was invaluable.

My greatest confirmation was, after reading and studying, that my so-called “OT� state, was, what I wanted it to be based on my own creation of what I wanted it to be… I created it. And we all do so every day! This is my observation.

Past-lives… Smashed-lives… whatever. I believed in past lives before I was introduced to scientology. Still do, sort of.

There are many here hanging on… disgruntled with church administration… but who believe in “The Tech�. There are some off-shoot “organizations� who cling to this “tech� and post here for profit. Those who’d be sucked into the off-shoots have not come to terms that they have been scammed.

I’d really like to see posts here which will debunk the off-shooters, let alone the main scam… LRH.

Those interested in this thread… Really Rebuilding Their Lives… should post.

LRH so-called “Tech� is study for dictatorships.

The first step out is to start speaking English without the Hubbardian vocabulary. Just speak English. Reword it in English!

Off-shooters can’t do that… they rely on the established scientologic vocabulary… a demonstration of inferiority. They can’t speak English. They can’t say what they mean without using the terms. If they were truly independent, they’d speak English and make their points in English. But they can’t. No, they are relying on your programming… building upon the brainwashing of so many statistical adherents.

Let’s break this crap down for what it is… a complete scam which worked because you, like myself, wanted a better planet and The Man “proved� a “workable� way to have a better planet… but what was bullshit.

The Policies, the Tech… all playing “save the planet� tune.

Bottom line… any gain you had (I had a lot) was because of YOU! YOU are good, YOU are compassionate, YOU are feeling and want a better Earth… you (like me) just chose the wrong Guru.

There is no Guru, and there never will be… ever. Your goodness and goodwill will make the difference. No need for a movement.

Let’s break this chain. Lets look at life, embrace life, and do well!

Let us lay a blueprint here… of positive experience… for those who will WELL need it!

Let us break away from the old, and speak of the new and wonderful life outside of the box.

Life is SO wonderful outside of the box.

Love to all….

Ok,

you talk about the point that you created all your gains by yourself.

That's the same thing with the creative mind and the BT's.

Nobody not involved in Scientology has ever heard of the "Reactive Mind". Hubbard claims of having "found out" about it - so he tells you on and on that you have a reactive mind. And the reason why you have never heard about it was that nobody ever was so smart of having found out about it. You hear it until you believe it.

Then you come to the Clear Certainty rundown and you have the Clear cognition: "I mocked up my reactive mind."

So you believed in a thing which never existed - you were brought to the believe that it exists - and finally thanks to Scientology you found out that it never existed.

And the same procedure starts again with the BT's.

What a trick - what a scam !!

That would be a great story for any comedian if there wouldn't be so many victims who were mentally raped and got broke for this.

James

Hi everyone,

I was a pretty hardcore believer in Scientology for a long time. I got in when I was around 9-10 and starting auditing Dianetics on others shortly thereafter. I was a very young person, raised with the Scientology mindset. I believed that all OTs were super powerful and nothing would ever happen that was bad to them. After all, if you are OT you are supposed to be cause over matter, energy, space, and time. Well, that is just not true. One of my OT friends died of cancer and it was very shocking to me.

I got very disillusioned earlier this year when a string of events unfolded that showed me the church was really only in it for the money. Sure, there are many Scientologists (like I was) who really want to help people and think they are clearing the planet. But it became real to me that the people at the top were only in it for money.

I found Arnie Lerma's site Lermanet.com when I googled a name + Scientology and I spent a few days glued to my computer. Then I found Xenu.net

Needless to say my deprogramming was a shock to me. I never knew I was brainwashed. I was devastated.

I have started to rebuild, I am going to school and doing well. I always had a dream of pursuing a certain career that was put down by the church. It was more important to be an auditor, it was the greatest good for the dynamics, right?! My realization on my last course was that I should pursue this career as it is my life's passion. This was put down and laughed at by my auditor and the people at the org I was doing this course at. This was very damaging to me and really pushed me furthur away from Scientology.

I have seen a counselor who is helping me get past some of the fixed ideas that I had in Scientology. Life outside of the C of S is beautiful, and finally as an adult after 16 years of chasing spiritual freedom, I find that the freedom was in me all along. I am finally excited about the future and I no longer feel that I have to have Scientology to be happy, if that makes any sense.

Posting here and getting to know all of the ex-Scn's has helped me tremendously.

Thanks for starting this thread StevieRayFan!
Serenity Now

StevieRayFan,

From reading this board, I have come to believe regarding scientology "tech" that:

1) there is no such thing as "standard" tech because each person who uses it has THEIR OWN understanding of it, and uses it a little differently than someone else.

2) each of us who was a scientologist had a different understanding of it, and got different "gains" out of it when we thought it "worked" -- it is not the precise, predictable "technology" that Hubbard claimed

3) the REAL REASON that scientology "works" (when it does) is, imo, a combination of

-- the individual participant's intention/ determination to get better, to overcome difficulties, to improve their abilities, etc.;

-- the individual participant's BELIEF that scientology "works". BELIEF itself is a very powerful force; the details of the system in which one believes is incidental to the power of belief itself

-- the use of light-trance hypnosis in some scientology techniques (even though its use is denied); hypnosis is only partially understood, but as a technique often "works" quite well)

-- "false memory syndrome" in at least some (if not all ?) "incidents" recalled by PCs getting auditing. The auditor keeps asking for something until the PC comes up with something. As faithfull followers and believers, both are anxious to come up with something and certain that they will. Ergo, they do.

In scientology, the only criteria for measuring the veracity of the something are: 1) e-meter reactions 2) the PC got brighter. Even long-term gains are not, afaik, ever measured in any way. Personal testimony (e.g., success stories) is sufficient "proof" that scientology "works" -- and personal testimony in any field is subject to indoctrination, mood, and whim as well as outright falsification.

My personal quarrel with the FZ and other "offshoots" that practice Hubbard "tech" and its variations is that it fosters DELUSIONS in people, and so can lead to serious mental/ emotional problems ranging from mild imbalances to severe psychoses, which those "trained" in Hubbard's tech are not equipped to handle.

There have been many discussions about "debunking" the "tech" (as well as scientology "ethics" and "admin") in the three years I've been reading this board. The Tech Outside COS (#) series of threads, which goes way back, is a good place to start. Or search my nic (Olska) for other threads, because I participated in many of these discussions, so those topics would come up on such a search. Sorry I don't have time right now to search out a few of them for you.

Go back a bit, because for most of this year it seems most posters have been much more interested in other things.

Like a lot of "exes" I have given this some thought over the years. There have been many good things written about the process of getting out and I wondered, seriously, if I had anything original to add to the discussion. And maybe I do - a small thing.

One of the hardest things to do (IMHO) is to realize that you have been hurt. Denial is almost immediate - even in the case of serious or life threatening injury the initial reaction is often "I'm OK". I think when we get out of Scientology we experience relief at being out from under the stress of belonging to it, we have immediate things to face, loss of friends, family difficulties and so on that keep us concentrated on "out there" but at some point, I think, we have to come to terms with what happened to "us".

I think the first step is realizing that you are not the same person you were when you got in.

The next step is realizing that you cannot go back to being the person you were before you got in.

The next (and perhaps more controversial idea) is that there is no way of telling how much the changes that you have gone through are because of scientology or because you matured. And, ultimately, there really is not much point.

The last part is making an honest assessment of where you are at now and then looking at where you want to go.

Funnily enough I think one of the biggest barriers to getting out of the mindset is one of the things that is so very attractive about getting in. The idea that there is a fast simple "why". All one needs do is find the "right item" find the "correct why" and suddenly all will become right. I think it is one of the seductive aspects of scientology - I also think it is completely bogus - and I think we cling to that maybe a little harder than most things in the subject. I found myself on many occasions thinking I had found the one thing, the one piece of understanding that was finally going to enable me to forget about Scientology.

Alas thirteen years of trauma, upset and misery leaves a scar. And as we all know - scars may heal but the mark stays for life.

"The first step out is to start speaking English without the Hubbardian vocabulary. Just speak English. Reword it in English!"

That's what Bent said he was doing after he finally dumped SCN in the 1980s.


"They can’t speak English. They can’t say what they mean without using the terms."

I think that Fluffy has done a pretty good job with this on OCMB (I don't know about elsewhere).


"The Policies, the Tech… all playing “save the planet� tune."

We sure bought into that one. I know that I did.


"I’d really like to see posts here which will debunk the off-shooters, let alone the main scam… LRH."

That has been done many times:

1. In discussions here;

2. In some writings that one can find on the home page here. (e.g. see what Bob Penny wrote, as well as, the test that was done concerning the, so-called, "existence" of engrams.)

3. In books critical of SCN.

Yes, I am sure much has been said here and elsewhere on the subject. I just feel it wouldn’t do any harm to start another discussion, with the same or different people, getting different perspectives and circumstances. Plus, I like the interactivity. So if you don’t mind…

When I saw that the OT III materials were outed yet folks weren’t freewheeling and dying of pneumonia after obviously understanding the matrials, it started a chain reaction back to my earlier days and beginning courses. Then I came forward, asking myself along the way, what would I have to believe in order to get to the point I’d be giddily ready to start auditing OTIII, which I had already completed. The belief was that the bts had to be found, and released along with their banks. Banks which I once believed existed. So finding them and making them blow, was easy. Was any of it really there? No. Was I putting them there? Yes. Did I believe I was cleaning myself up? Yes. Was I happy and proud to do these and the higher levels at the time? Yes.

As Olska has said, but explained a little differently from my perspective:

Same with dianetics processing. The pc has studied the theory… knows what to look for. Upon command, the pc starts looking. Sooner or later the similarities will match and the chain will blow… an exercise in creating ones own incidents. Underlying all of this is the belief that LRH’s techniques are true. To “prove� it, the pc runs the process, and inserts the incidents where LRH has said they will be, and BAM, more “confirmed� belief. Other than LHR saying so, is there any proof that we ever had1000s of chains with real, active engram content? No. Only that pcs can find them (create them) when driven down the track, knowing he will stay down there until an incident of similar circumstances to what bugs him in the present can be found to match.

The exact same technique would work for finding bad mommies. If the theory was that somewhere, down the track, there were some really bad mommies one needed to finally confront and blow to release present problems, one would indeed find them, and say, “bad mommy� and blow the visual just created, come up to present having kicked some bad mommy ass. If it was believed by the pc, bad mommy always held power over him, why he’d be pleased and happy to find them.

Convince the pc first (insert) belief that (inserted belief) was the “cause�, send the guy down the track after it… Bingo. Repeat for a few months or a few thousand chains.

After realizing that it was I who was creating it all along… that the entire bridge was in fact a dancing act between ethics enforcing belief, and my compliance to LRH’s vision of what was “wrong� with me… I became instantly humiliated.

As Mike has said, there is no single “why�. There is a multitude of reasons, all of which must be believed.

1) I am a worthless WOG
2) Scientology is the only way
3) Hubbard figured it out
4) Hubbard’s tech is scientific
5) Hubbard’s OT
6) OT’s have power over everyone
7) The tech works
Sp’s are the cause of the planet’s spiral
9) Sps are real
10) I’m special because I believe in the above
11) Earth is a dumping ground
12) etc., etc.,etc.

Underlying disbelief in any of the above (and the hundreds more not listed) is fear.

IMO, overcoming the experience, with lessons learned, one can become a much better person than he or she every could have become as a limited, shut down (yes selfish) individual while caught in the trap. “What’s good for the greatest number� depends on what your definition of “good� is. Scientology governments, no more elections, firing squads for declared SPs, Ron’s office in the White House, MC types stomping about… are all “good� with the above beliefs intact.

Well put, SRF. You grok!

It can be quite amazing when you realize that you've been duped. One of the things that I found very compelling about Scientology was the whole time track. People told me all sorts of fanciful stories about their past lives, and I ate it up.

The other thing that captivated me was ot powers. I remember being told all about how you can do this, or you can do that, all this coming from an ot 7-8. I remember asking him to show me something, anything, because I wanted to see it in action. I'm embarrassed to say, that he told me a story about some ot guy, who called the FBI, and wanted to teach them the tech. To prove his point, he described many personal details of this agents life. The OT then told me he was discovered dead the next day, and that's why he couldn't show me anything!!!!!!!!! What kind of a moron believe's that crap?!?!?!?!?! Well, other than me, I totally ate it up.

This is one last pathetic story. I was complaining that it took too much time to travel to the org. The staff told me to control the streetlights, I thought, that's a reasonable idea, I REALLY beleived this OT stuff. Hey, shut up you guys, my OT sences are tingling, and telling me that you're all laughing!!!!!!!!!!! ( you bastards! haha ) So I tried it and it worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In hindsight, I can recall driving at 5 mph, when I had a red light in front of me!

Congratulations, Jonny! You have discovered the real secret behind being "at cause"... From now on, every road shall rise up to meet you - so be extra careful when riding your motorcycle!

StevieRayFan,

"I just feel it wouldn’t do any harm to start another discussion, with the same or different people, getting different perspectives and circumstances."

I agree. Sorry, I guess I should have worded the last part of my post a little differently.


"Plus, I like the interactivity. So if you don’t mind… "

I don't mind at all. (Say it, brother! Say it!)


BTW, I like Stevie Ray, too (I have 2 DVDs of concert footage) AND my daughter likes his music. (If you like his music you would probably like Kenny Wayne Sheppard, too.)


Best regards

Merlin, thank you. Long time since I heard “Grok�! <smile>

Programmer, thank you also! (Yes, Stevie Ray is one of the best… KWS is good too.)

[/img]

Hey!... I don't see DMSMH or 8-8008 or Self Analysis or History of Man in that pile. Where are those? (and I don't see any course packs!) <snicker>

Why isn't your demo kit in that pile?

Are you going to use lighter-fluid or gasoline?