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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:48 pm 
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I don't have the answer as to why Hubbard named the upper TRs, 6-9 inclusive, "upper indoctrination." Could it be he was trying to tell you something?
-Jurybox


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:05 pm 
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Your assumption is that the Scientology Indoctrination is a removable attachment from the rest of Scientology, as if the "indoctrination" came as an afterthought, or mistake, that Hubbard made, over and over, for 48 years. I suppose that you assume that once the indoctrination is removed, we will have a perfectly good technology and philosophy that we all can use to do what? Go OT? You have shown in your essay that the indoctrination techniques Hubbard employed in KSW should be removed from that essay. But I am not aware of you going on to identify other areas of indoctrination that should be removed. The character Hubbard created of "Ron", a super OT Being with medals from having served in "all five theaters of war", and who was the "youngest Eagle
Scout", who was a barn-storming pilot, who studied with holy men in the Western Hills of China, and who was one of the first nuclear physicists, is
also part of the indoctrination. Do we delete the character of "Ron" from Scientology? Do we re-write Hubbard's own biographies with the truth: the pleas for psychiatric help, the lying about his war record, his ulcers, his drug taking, his run from the law and his last days of dementia and death? Do we we delete the PR line that he went on to further OT research without the encumbrance of the body? That's indoctrination, too, right? Do we delete all the claims that Hubbard made that Dianetics and Scientology underwent rigorous scientific proofs and testing? Do we re-write Scientology to show that the basis of the tech came from smatterings of ideas from other religions and other psychological therapies?
Then, do we re-write all the claims for Clear and OT, and say that these states have yet to be attained by anyone in Scientology? The fake character of "Ron", the claims of rigorous scientific testing, and the states of Clear and OT - aren't these all part of the indoctrination,
too? If so, what do we have left, after we delete the indoctrination from Scientology?
-Poopsy


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 Post subject: Quote
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:08 pm 
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"In blunt language 'auditing' is a process of conditioning, brainwashing, indoctrination."
-Justice Latey, 1984 Child Custody Case, England


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:21 pm 
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Anyone who has ever been a Scientologist has been indoctrinated. Anyone who is a Scientologist but is unaware of the Scientology indoctrination still is indoctrinated. Making Scientologists aware of their indoctrination should be the main purpose and activity of a critic. When enough Scientologists have begun to see past their indoctrination, the indoctrination will become the most pressing topic among them. The CoS will become a pressure cooker.
-SW


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:41 pm 
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Have fun in your UFO nut-cult, clamheads!
-Roland


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:45 pm 
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They DID intend to KILL. Scientologists go by the
motto "Better Dead Than UNABLE." Scientologist's did NOT allow her proper medical care (MURDER). They starved and dehydrated her (MURDER). They covered it up (criminals). They abused people exposing their MURDER. It WILL come out. IT ALWAYS does. They can run but they can't hide.
-The Notifier


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:51 pm 
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Scientology Inc. believes in one thing.
Money. Nothing more. Nothing less.
-Curt West


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 Post subject: Quote
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:59 pm 
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I consider scientology, not to mention a number of similar harmful-to-
people-memes as akin to some loathsome parasitic disease like
tuberculosis. Do I hate diseases or the people who carry them? Of
course not! You need to understand both physical and mental parasites
to avoid being damaged, but hate is not appropriate. As far as the
people are concerned, pity is what you should feel for someone who is
unfortunate enough to be infested with scientology or SARS.
-Keith Henson


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:07 pm 
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Hubbubs crap breeds insanity imho... they believe what ever some other dingbat tells them read on the meter or floated thier needle.
-Phil Scott


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:12 pm 
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Keeping what works is never a mistake as I see it, but you also change your definition of 'works' after getting away from the brainwash... 'gleeful' while not being able to function in the rational world effectively is no longer considered 'working'. I see much of hubbards stuff as completely damaging, regardless how it makes some idiot or myself 'feel' for a short time.
-Phil Scott


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:16 pm 
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The indoctrination starts when people think "Well,he was right about this n' that so he must be right about it all"...n' they just stop thinking for themselves n'put a nice big set of Hubbard Doctrine where their brain should live.
-Caffy T.


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 Post subject: Quote
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:19 pm 
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I believe most Scientologists carry around serious doubts about how
wonderful OT is. I mean all a person has to do is observe the OTs in their
own field to realise "there aint no OTs". But an indoctrinated Scientologist
find reasons why this OT7 acts like this...or that OT8 is sick again....or
this PTS R/D Graduate just got hit by a car. They rationalise and invent
reasons and assign it all to out tech or PTSness - that's if they are being
a "good Scientologist". But in the back of their mind the nagging doubts
grow. -Emma


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:27 pm 
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I found the hardest thing about becoming unindoc'd is the void. When you are a trained Scientologist you have all the answers(even if in the back of
your mind you kinda think some of it is horse shit). But when you get OUT you find you have no stable data (or at least I didn't). That's hard....and
it's something I'm working very hard on to fill right now. I am asking myself: "Do I need Jesus in my life?","Is all religion a crock?" ."Am I just meat?","Do I reincarnate?" etc.. etc.I guess I'm just back to asking the same old questions man has always asked him/her self.. At least now I'm free to ask them. I'm very glad about that.
-Emma


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 Post subject: Quote
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:33 pm 
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If being a Scientologist makes me more able to confront and cope with life, how come I'm avoiding even looking at any entheta because it might corrupt me? -Hartley Patterson


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 Post subject: Quote
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:35 pm 
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Scientology changes people's wordview in many ways, to the extent that they often don't realise even after they have 'blown' that they aren't thinking the same way that non-scientologists do. They are still using nonsensical bits of Hubbardtech: garbage in, garbage out.
-Hartley Patterson


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