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 Post subject: A polite request for action
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:29 am 
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OCMB has reached one of its periodic low points. It requires action to correct this.

I have suggested that the rules be followed on complaints, so far as I know no one has done so. If you want something done, do it yourself I guess. :(

On ARS (my forum of choice) the rubbish can be filtered out by a combination of killfiling and Ignore Threading. I don't have to read stuff by OSAbots, trolls, crossposters and people who wind me up. On OCMB this is not possible. Most threads of interest are presently being hijacked by people from all sides who have no interest in discussing Scientology.

A number of people are, in my view, breaking the rules.
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=13922
I am not listing them in this post or going into details since I am, as the rules require, biting my tongue and trying not to provoke them into hijacking this thread. I am politely requesting others not to do so here either. Agree with me, disagree with me, but don't say "yes, and I blame xxxxx".

Yes, I have some ideas on what to do. There is however no point in posting them without agreement by Admin that something needs to be done and some support from other OCMB posters.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:20 pm 
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I agree. Something needs to be done...but the devil'sin the details :(

What can be done and how can it be done without full time moderators?
Would anyone *WANT* to be a modertor on *THIS* board?

Tigger


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:58 pm 
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Tigger wrote:
I agree. Something needs to be done...but the devil'sin the details :(

What can be done and how can it be done without full time moderators?
Would anyone *WANT* to be a modertor on *THIS* board?

Tigger


I suggest Hartley. I've been reading him for a long time and I think he'd be very good at it.

Patty P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:13 pm 
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Patty Pieniadz wrote:
Tigger wrote:
I agree. Something needs to be done...but the devil'sin the details :(

What can be done and how can it be done without full time moderators?
Would anyone *WANT* to be a modertor on *THIS* board?

Tigger


I suggest Hartley. I've been reading him for a long time and I think he'd be very good at it.

Patty P


What she said. 2nd that.

Umike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:58 pm 
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I heartily agree.

Its hard to post any reasonable comments without someone just jumping in with blind, drooling, insanity in their comments against Scientology.

No one is saying its a "perfect" system.

But how can anyone get to the real truth with all the spamming here?

All the endless gross images. All the attacks on those who CHOOSE to pursue an interest in Scientology in its varied forms.

We need a BALANCED, rational discussion.

Image

_________________
There's an old saying: when the going gets tough - pit bulls call a Scientologist."
-David Miscavige- 8 October, 1993
http://www.earthstation1.com/ThemeSongs/Branded.wav


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:56 pm 
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Kids who were born in the cult didn't have a choice, sis.


Last edited by bird on Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:01 pm 
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Hartley,I hope you meant well, but puhleeze!

Your supporters ulterior motives are apparent to all but the most clueless or deluded critics.

Google is your friend.

Google all the contributors to this thread, and make up your own mind.

Imagine a world ruled by scientology. It would make 1984 look like an Orwellian Disneyland, and Hitler's regime a paradise on earth.

Please READ what Hubbard wrote and what scientologists believe and practice before you protect,preserve and promote it or allow others to do so.

PLEASE!!!!

THANK YOU!

Ladybird


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:12 pm 
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I suggest a collegial moderation operated by those who support Hartley as moderator.

Hartley gets to moderate them and the rest of us get to moderate Hartley's moderation.

Fair?

Image

Suggested further reading:

Social Control in Scientology
at:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shel ... cs-00.html


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 Post subject: Re: A polite request for action
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:23 pm 
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Posts: 376
Location: Clara City, MN, USA
hartley wrote:
OCMB has reached one of its periodic low points. It requires action to correct this.

I have suggested that the rules be followed on complaints, so far as I know no one has done so. If you want something done, do it yourself I guess. :(

On ARS (my forum of choice) the rubbish can be filtered out by a combination of killfiling and Ignore Threading. I don't have to read stuff by OSAbots, trolls, crossposters and people who wind me up. On OCMB this is not possible. Most threads of interest are presently being hijacked by people from all sides who have no interest in discussing Scientology.

A number of people are, in my view, breaking the rules.
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=13922
I am not listing them in this post or going into details since I am, as the rules require, biting my tongue and trying not to provoke them into hijacking this thread. I am politely requesting others not to do so here either. Agree with me, disagree with me, but don't say "yes, and I blame xxxxx".

Yes, I have some ideas on what to do. There is however no point in posting them without agreement by Admin that something needs to be done and some support from other OCMB posters.


Doesn't is seem funny to you that "OCMB has reached one of its periodic low points" at the same time that some of the posters who have taken some time off from OCMB have all of a sudden returned in full force? Actually it's kind of ironic. There was sure a period where no (or little) moderation was needed. But all of a sudden there is a call for moderation again when certain posters return to the board. I'm sorry, but there seems to be a pattern in there somewhere.

Rick (hboats)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:32 pm 
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Then again, some girls never left the place.

Oops

:shock:

I should have bitten my tongue, but it's busy with my cheek and I can't do both at the same time.

Not with one tongue anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:51 pm 
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Ladybird:

Many people seek a world of order and discipline.

China is coming on strong, due to its centralized government.

Many Russians seek the return of their "glory days".

Fundamentalists everywhere, whether christian, muslim or jew, seek
a world of ordered peace.

Scientologists just propose a new unifiying solution to those other systems that failed.

Scientologists have just as much right as anyone else to support their beliefs and don't need to be browbeated and harassed by a few apostates.

We should have a peaceable kingdom here at OCMB...

Image

_________________
There's an old saying: when the going gets tough - pit bulls call a Scientologist."
-David Miscavige- 8 October, 1993
http://www.earthstation1.com/ThemeSongs/Branded.wav


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:15 am 
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Location: Colorado, USA
Well, I'll be whizzered!

This advocation to a return to the purity of the 'Pink Fuzzie Slipper Club' comes at a time that there are accusations, rumors, and suspicions of who, what, why are behind the denigration of certain critics for inconsequential violations of the use of certain verbs, nouns, and adjectives in their postings.

I suspect (yes, I have an investigative mind) that Certain Parties are concerned that they might be exposed as jealous, vindictive, and evil - in fact.

Eventually, you can run, but you cannot hide. The internets and subsidiaries will reveal one's true intentions. It is one thing for the kult of $cientology and its operatives on OCMB, if any, are exposed. It is entirely another thing if simple jealousy, vindictiveness, and evils are the incentives of postings by non-kultists that are designed to destroy good people posting on OCMB.

Those who are most suspected of their intentions regarding OCMB are those most in support of hardened moderation. What do these supporters (most, btw, were formerly detractors of the 'Pink Fuzzie Slipper Club'!) wish to hide?

One can only refer to history, with an open-minded reading.

Q


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:22 am 
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I perform my own self-filtering. Many threads are completely ignored as are posters. I would prefer not having a kill file as sometimes it is amusing to read the occasional oddball post.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:36 am 
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pitbull wrote:
Ladybird:

Many people seek a world of order and discipline.

China is coming on strong, due to its centralized government.

Many Russians seek the return of their "glory days".

Fundamentalists everywhere, whether christian, muslim or jew, seek
a world of ordered peace.

Scientologists just propose a new unifiying solution to those other systems that failed.

Scientologists have just as much right as anyone else to support their beliefs and don't need to be browbeated and harassed by a few apostates.

We should have a peaceable kingdom here at OCMB...

Image



Dear Pitbull,

I think Roy Wallis in his great work, "The Road to Total Freedom" on page 16 comments:

"Those features advanced as central to the concept of sect which have stood the test of time, therefore, seem to centre on the right to exclusion, a self-conception as an elect or elite, totalitarianism, and hostility towrds, or separation from, the state or society."

I think Hubbard failed to see where he was ending Scientology and the faithful up, with his accumulating rules, which frankly any of the ex members of many years participation until they couldn't stand it any longer, noticed the downsides to these totalitarian extremes.

Scientology made its way into a new religious movement, and Hubbard made the movement much like what Wallis notes is how sects historically become sects. Wallis' is a way advanced religious sociologist, and I cannot begin to do his ideas justice.

But Scientology is totalitarian, and in Keeping Scientology Working Hubbard clearly does not apologize for his undemocratic role in it all.

He clearly claims to have risen above it all.

Naturally, I agree, those that agree with Hubbard are on his side, and as a cult, sect or new religious movement, or con, or whatever label one puts on Scientology, it is inescapable that the movement is more inhibiting of its members, official Scientology that is, compared to other institutions in society.

If you are just asking for manners and politeness, I'm for it.

The ideas of Hubbard I think ended up a lot of people with unhealthy attitudes about the rest of the world, and about Scientology's "enemies".

There are just so many ideas of Hubbard turned into rules, that turn people against each other, and while historicially religious cults, sects or groups do do this, as Wallis notes, to me that does not make those groups or the ideas behind those totalitarian trends correct.

I think the ideas leading toward undemocracy are wrong.

I think the wider freer exchange of ideas between everyone is healthier.

Criticism of Hubbard is taboo in Scientology.

And today, the criticism of DM is even more of an "overt" and grounds for serious retaliation within the ranks.

Scientology has painted itself into its totalitarian image. The top ranks of Scientology today are a complete degraded subservient scene, with DM insanely thinking he is the only one doing any good, when in fact he has turned the top administrative ranks of the movement into a wasteland, with no top management allowed to even attempt their roles that LRH laid out in LRH's final years of orders for "Exec Strata" and "CMO Int" and LRH's other general policies in the early 80s for all of management.

Anyways, I think Wallis, who wrote the above in 1975-76, was spot on, and Scientology is totalitarian, and while other groups have headed that way, that doesn't make them right, not make Scientology right for going that way.

LRH's pie in the sky space opera societies that ran perfectly for millions of years (reference the "Chug" advices to Foster Tompkins who was the Mission I/C of the original INCOMM mission setting up Scientology's computerization) LRH went on about how space civilizations of old used computers to hum along for millions of years. The computer was in effect "big brother" keeping silent note of everything, and detecting the embezzling Duke of Chug, which the computer then orders the executive to replace Chug to arrive at Chug's planet, and replace Chug, who is executed.

Scientologists settle on LRH's reality, and are happy (or not, or to whatever degree happy or not) with LRH's take on all reality, and LRH has the embedded rules to keep things in line with all his views.

It is NOT being accepted world wide, the trend is NOT towards increased participation.

The trend is people leave, eventually.

The totalitarian aspects, the overly intrusive heavy ethics, the pressure to disconnect from troublesome family who are against and critical of Scientology, it is NOT healthy, and while Scientology is like other cults, sects or religious groups doing this in history, it does NOT make it right.

And currently it is NOT gaining support for Scientology, in my opinion, after looking back at my 27 years participation in the Sea Org.

_________________
Chuck Beatty 412-260-1170
Pittsburgh, USA,
"Our bombastic lapidary style is good only for inflating dwarfs." Jean-Jacques Rousseau (from "Emile, or On Education")


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:27 pm 
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Hi Chuck. That was a great post.

It is good when people can just talk openly about anything.
Something impossible to do in the church. Its just
amazing that they spend so much time breaking down
the elements of communication, while placing even
more effort on STOPPING communication.

But I also realize that it was a life experience that many
people had and I don't want to downgrade what was
years and years of someones life. Thats another
reason why it doesn't always help to just slam scientology.
It can be really invalidating for someone who spent
a lot of time there.

I would hope to find ways where we can all appreciate the lessons
we learned and make a better life from it.

That, of course, does not mean we have to sit back and
let them ruin any more lives either. Miscavige and his cronies
must be exposed and removed so they cannot hurt more
people.

_________________
There's an old saying: when the going gets tough - pit bulls call a Scientologist."
-David Miscavige- 8 October, 1993
http://www.earthstation1.com/ThemeSongs/Branded.wav


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