You are right SuzzaneMarie,
Magoo does not grovel at Hubtoad's feet.

SuzzaneMarie,

Simply use your OT powers and you too will have ALL
of Hubtoad's quotes at your fingertips.

You might even get an ashtray to move if you yell at it long enough.

Ok, fair enough. So you don't think people not allowed to speak to their parents, because their parents dislike Scientology.....you don't feel that has anything to do with freedoms people have a natural right to have?

That's a start. Also, how about Scientology stopping free speech? Have you read my OSA 101 Series?
www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm

I think it might help you understand what I'm talking about.
Believe me, I WAS very much on the same, exact page as you...I really was. So all I ask is that you READ....LOOK...*think* about a few things, outside the C of S box.

Tory/Magoo~~

It's sort of weird to see some of the names you posted.
I was going to say we did not travel in the same circles, Magoo.
But I knew Pam King back when she was a waitress. I knew Shirley
Young when she was on basic courses.
Really takes me back.

The content of your posts didn't impress me. I've read it before, just skimming through. "Spiritual rape"? Feh. Drama queen.

Why do you have to guess? Can't you just google what you're looking at and see what sites it's posted on?

Piping in for no real reason
First I would side conditionally here with SM on the suicide issue, unless there is a note or some indication that COS was the reason for the sucide, you cant in good faith attribute any suicide to COS, not if you are being balanced and fair.

That said, there is certainly a sense and feeling that COS destabalizes people, bilks them of thier money and destroys families. The evidence of this is fairly overwelming and I think if one os being honest fairly persasive. There are simply far far too many personal accounts of exactly this happening for it to be considered anything but a pattern. It does not take too much streyching to see how this pattern would likely lead to increased suicide.

The deaths where cancer or disease were involved should be noted I think but done so seperatly.

If as has been alleged, and I think with ample evidence COS discourages medical treatment beliving in its own methods which are not effective, then COS membership could be seen as a contributing factor, but not a cause of death. Other evidence where COS has murdered or through negligence caused direct deaths are the ones that should be spotlighted.

SM says that she has not expreienced the tactics of COS that this board finds replusive. I would ask does she belive the stories and accounts on this board and others are fabrications or simply isolated stories?

There now! You're writing in your own original words! Now how hard was that? You're hardly spelling a thing wrong, either. Now if you can just work on making sense, someday people will read you. All fifteen of the lurkers here, maybe.

I am so sorry you are having so many problems Suzzanemarie.
But Hubbard says that's a good thing....


"In actual testing in Scientology it has been discovered
that a person begins to suffer from problems when he does
not have enough of them. There is the old saw (maxim) that
if you want a thing done, give it to a busy man to do.
Similarly if you want a happy associate, make sure that he
is a man who can have lots of problems." L. Ron Blubbardubbard
The Fundamentals of Thought

There are some horror stories I believe to be fabrications, for example, anything coming from Ron deWolfe/LRH Jr. is suspect, since he recanted his stories more than once, and I consider him to have been money-motivated and out for revenge.

Margery Wakefield's accounts of life inside Scientology are also suspect. She mentioned a deformed Sea Org baby (she calls her 'Lisa') who was allowed to perish. She described the baby as having one leg shorter than the other and cranial deformities.
When my kid was at a certain CoS school there was a Scn. teenager there who had been born with one leg shorter than the other and cranio-facial deformities. She had had reconstructive surgery and her gait was a bit awkward but you could not tell there had ever been anything seriously wrong with her. This was probably the same kid; such deformities are very rare, and tellingly, Wakefield never claimed she saw the (supposedly dead) baby. The story was, the baby was gone one day.

Tonya Burden claims a little SO boy was put in a chain locker for a month.
Other accounts say three days. BIG discrepancy. Did it ever even happen?

On the other hand, some of the people here are telling the truth. I think Roan was truthful about what happened to him. That doesn't mean he always knows what he's talking about, just that he was truthful about his own experiences.

All I can do is give my own opinion on these stories. They don't all ring true to me. Some, sure. But Scientology blood & crime stuff did not happen to me or people I know.

I suspect some stories are fabrications and some are suspect
to me however the common thread of disconnection, fair game and bullying that runs through so many stories has a ring of truth to it.
There seems to be pervasive patterns within COS and especially on SO of intimidation, censorship and abuse.
Lets assume your not here officially, meaning you were not sent here by COS directly. assuming this and assuming you are still a member, would you be allowed to openly be here? meaning can you openly let COS officialls know you debate on a critic board?

Ale,

If I tell CoS officials that I read OCMB and debate here, they will tell me to stop. If I don't comply, I will very likely get expelled. They might expel me if someone else tells them first, too.
That's why I keep leaving. It was stupid of me to get dragged back into OCMB. At least you yourself are being decent and giving me the benefit of the doubt.

SuzanneMarie, by your own admission, your own testimony: your Church has declared you PTS and denied you services in it because you won't disconnect with one or more family member. Baby, you are in the exact same book as Magoo... she's just in a later chapter!



You slay me, SM. Your state of denial is... epic!

Roan,

Magoo may think that she is PTS to church of Scientology.

I don't think that I am PTS to my church.

The person who tried to deprogram me told me that I would be locked up in a mental hospital and never allowed to leave if I tried to stay in Scientology. He also told me that my daughter would be given up for adoption if I tried to stay in Scientology, since her father did not want her.

I was once punched in the head by a mentally-ill relative who hates and fears Scientologists. He immediately called the sheriff after the attack and claimed that I had hit him. I suffered a concussion and there was blood spatter in the kitchen from the blow. The sheriff looked us both over, noted the blood spatter and tried to arrest him. His father begged me not to press charges, so I did not. The person who hit me is 6'5'' and weighs 270 pounds.

I think I'm PTS alright, and not to church members or the church.

Ok, so, step back, really step back and look at that
Why are you considered so fragile by the church that debate is a threat? and even if they do see it as a threat, why expell someone who chooses to accept the risks of getting some negative energy in a debate? what could be so threatening about text and ideas?
You are a free person, people who would attempt to deprogram you through kidnap and such, were it me, I would see them dead.

In that same thread you are a free person, a church should advise, help, inspire and support you, not control you and your family.

In the end, if you are who and what you say you are, I think you will leave it, because your are thinking, and thought is poison to that kind of control.
If you are who and what you say, there are people here who have attacked you and treated you unkindly, and for that they are fools and thier voices are diminissed greatly, because you are what this whole thing should be about, someone who is in, but beginning to question, you are who love should be fore and kindness and understanding should embrace. They see it as a war but they forget what they are fighting for, they should be fighting for you.
I wish you so much of the best and I wish you freedom, for freedom of thought and action is precious. Look to this church, see if to its core it loves you and seeks for you the best and the brightest. Be honest with yourself and listen to those answers, whatever they may be
and Bright day to ya

Great post Ale.

Well said.