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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:56 am 
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Mog

Welcome to OCMB.

Looking forward to read your story (only when you are ready to post it).

Opter


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:18 am 
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Dear Mog,

I wish to encourage you to speak from your heart and disregard anything which seems negative or dismissive. If you still have Scientology in your blood, we should all respect that even if we do not like what we see happening in Scientology. The fact is, Scientology would not be here today if there weren't enough GOOD in it to manipulate decent people into going deeper into the BAD. If you took something good out of it, then keep it, use it. But if you got manipulated into things and ideas which were bad, NUKE EM. We will help you nuke em. We may not be able to help you keep the good, because some of us are very very angry at Scientology. But we all have to respect you. Because, what you have done by posting here is brave and respectable.

When one speaks truly from one's undivided heart, it is like the most brilliant and unblemished diamond. Other people will see it, and see it is unassailable and strong, and those who need it will use it. There will be people who snipe at you. The Japanese have a saying:

The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.


Well, that may be true. So don't get discouraged if people don't agree with you or are not on the same page. STAY YOUR COURSE. YOUR COURSE.

Everybody will respect that, even though some may not like it.

And remember, you are being BRAVE and STRONG to post here. Some people envy those attributes and would want you to come down to their level to feel comfortable in their personal misery. Don't let ANYBODY bring you down ever.

If anybody tries, let me know.


Love,

Os

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:51 am 
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Anyone that knows people that just got out of Scientology or people that have been out for a while you need to encourage them to tell their story. Scientology is a very evil cult that got started by a Schitzophrenic drug user and wife beater. People need to know Scientology for what it really is which is EVIL!

Scientology ruins families lives everyday with disconnection. They love to make slaves and the real thing they love is MONEY. Keep speaking the TRUE HARMS OF SCIENTOLOGY!

IMHO Tommy Gorman

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This is my own opinion. I'd rather die speaking the truth about the harms of the cult of scientology than hide and be afraid.
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 Post subject: Thanks again
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:41 pm 
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Thanks again for the welcome.

Well I intend to keep my own integrity.

Obviously, there are many highly intelligent gifted and really great people who have been in Scientology for years. I had some very good experiences. They were a group that once helped me a great deal at a time when I really needed help. Not drugs or addition just a really bad knock in life. I gained many things (including my huusband) so it would not be possible for me to just say its all bad.

It is however a group that I would now feel embarrassed to belong to. I could not reccomend it to anybody. If I referred someone to a book I would have to say be careful of the group.

Why? It is not the same group that I once felt so safe in.

I think the main motivation now is just to take money from people.

Yes I have a story. Maybe one day I will tell it.

Has anybody noticed that once you pay them your cash its no longer yours its theirs and whether or not they deliver what they promised is quite irrelevant to them. In fact they have no responsibily towards you.

If you ask for the money back you are an SP. Repayment of your money was originally permitted and carried no ethics penalty at all. Taking money with lies and then telling the person lied to that he or she is the SP and has overts or something. That is so insane.

DM should be declared. Maybe we could Comm Ev him on Operation Clambake.


Don't worry I am also angry.

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Mog


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 Post subject: Re: Thanks again
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:04 am 
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Mog wrote:
DM should be declared. Maybe we could Comm Ev him on Operation Clambake.


Dear Mog,

THAT is one of the BEST IDEAS I have seen posted!!!

I really think all y'all Scientologists, FZers, Indies and ex's should do it. Scientology makes rules, then it enforces them CONVENIENTLY and CAPRICIOUSLY. This is against SOURCE DICTA (as I understand it). Hell, they have even REWRITTEN SOURCE DATA (as I understand it).

If DM is gonna act like Captain Bligh, he should be treated like him.


Love,

Os

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:09 am 
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Mog,

So glad you are posting here! I'm looking forward to reading your stories.

As time goes on, and I get more and more of the "big picture", my opinion of my experiences in $cientology have come full circle for me. So, keep on reading others' posts, and other websites as well.

Being mad is a good thing. We all should be mad. Being conned is evil.

Life will always have its ups and downs. But it is wonderful not to be under the control of davey the dwarf!!

_________________
"There's a place up ahead and I'm goin'
just as fast as my feet can fly
Come away, come away if you're goin',
leave the sinkin' ship behind." -John C. Fogerty, Creedence Clearwater Revival


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 Post subject: The way I see it
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:54 pm 
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Yes being conned is evil.

I do not have a problem with the fact that a person has to pay for auditing or training. You know I have always liked odd and unusual subjects. Before Scientology I was interested in the occult. I have always been arragant enough to consider myselt a spirit and yes I understand that compared to the universe I am smaller than a speck of dust perhaps. So looking for answers to life and reasons for our exsistence is not such a foolish thing.

So if a person pays for a course for something. Lets say on course on how to speak to your pet cat for example. They do the course and then they say sorry it did not work for me. I think its fair to pay them back and say please dont come here again. Whats wrong with that. They are happy and the course provider is happy. There is no need to be nasty and say it didnt work for you because you are basicly against all cats. The cats know this and one day when everybody can talk to cats maybe we will have time for you.

However, if you pay because you want to do a course that will enable you to talk to cats and the course provider takes your money promising that and then says something like well now before you can talk to cats you must be able to talk to their fleas and therefore this will cost another xxx then I think you have a right to say sorry never had a goal to communicate to fleas so please repay my cash. How are you suppressing the course provider? They can sell their courses to people who want to do them. They are the ones who have been dishonest.

This sort of thing has happened to so many people.

The problem scientologist have is the code which prevents them from discussing the subject with the uninformed public and press. I once adhered to this code. This code was OK when they were not overtly ripping people off and justifying it by saying greatest good or something. I have heard of so many people in deep debt who have not made gains.

As someone who trained as an auditor. I would hate to audit someone who was in deep debt because of the auditing payed for. I mean deep uncontrollable debt. I am not sure but I think they would have a PTS situation. PTS to the debt. Every session you would have to handle the rudîments - you know - not enough money to pay the rent or not enough money to pay the bills etc. Then there would be some kind of hidden standard - was that session good enough to make up for the shit I am now in. You might handle something in session for the person but as soon as they got their credit card bill - bang Bad indicators. Then it becomes evident the PC is rollercoasting - good indicators then bad. Opps who is the SP. Maybe the bank manager? Maybe the wife who now can't buy clothes and food for the kids?

Scientology is supposed to improve conditions help people handle their life more easily.

Trust me what is currently being peddled is insane.

ps excuse my spelling, I do not have a spell check and I also speak other languages so sorry for any errors.

I am having a lot of fun on this board. I hope to introduce other topics for discussion as time goes on.

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Mog


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:06 pm 
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Mog Wrote:
Quote:
Yes being conned is evil.

I do not have a problem with the fact that a person has to pay for auditing or training. You know I have always liked odd and unusual subjects. Before Scientology I was interested in the occult. I have always been arragant enough to consider myselt a spirit and yes I understand that compared to the universe I am smaller than a speck of dust perhaps. So looking for answers to life and reasons for our exsistence is not such a foolish thing.


Mog ... I don't feel considering yourself to be a spirit is arrogant. I feel it is a beautiful thing to think and feel. I feel it is how one "relates" to life knowing, understanding and being this that shows arrogance or not.

We now know from experience Scientology is arrogant, self-serving and manipulative in this truth. This religion, applied philosophy or however one views Scientology (imnsho it is an insidious cult), takes this truth and hangs it as bait to keep one hooked on the ever ending false mythology to "spiritual" freedom. One can't buy "spiritual" freedom. It's not something to
be bought, though it is something to become aware of through inquiry. I think your examples of the cat courses are perfect in describing the falsities of Scientology. It is very dishonest in its promises and deeds.

Mog Wrote:
Quote:
As someone who trained as an auditor. I would hate to audit someone who was in deep debt because of the auditing payed for. I mean deep uncontrollable debt. I am not sure but I think they would have a PTS situation. PTS to the debt. Every session you would have to handle the rudîments - you know - not enough money to pay the rent or not enough money to pay the bills etc. Then there would be some kind of hidden standard - was that session good enough to make up for the shit I am now in. You might handle something in session for the person but as soon as they got their credit card bill - bang Bad indicators. Then it becomes evident the PC is rollercoasting - good indicators then bad. Opps who is the SP. Maybe the bank manager? Maybe the wife who now can't buy clothes and food for the kids?

Scientology is supposed to improve conditions help people handle their life more easily.

Trust me what is currently being peddled is insane.


You have heart and care. That is a beautiful thing. To me that is truth and beauty. It is sad and absurd that auditors push folks into auditing beyond their means. That is what happened to me. I had great trust in my auditor and deeply overstepped my financial limits. Have I ever heard from this person again, no. Is that care? That is soulfully wrong. A lesson forever learned.

Thanks for coming forth and sharing your insights.

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beyond_horizons ... rest in peace dear friend


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:06 am 
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Mog wrote:
However, if you pay because you want to do a course that will enable you to talk to cats and the course provider takes your money promising that and then says something like well now before you can talk to cats you must be able to talk to their fleas and therefore this will cost another xxx then I think you have a right to say sorry never had a goal to communicate to fleas so please repay my cash. How are you suppressing the course provider? They can sell their courses to people who want to do them. They are the ones who have been dishonest.


Yep- you got it!! That's their standard bait & switch routine. Just one of many weaselly tricks the cult uses.

_________________
"There's a place up ahead and I'm goin'
just as fast as my feet can fly
Come away, come away if you're goin',
leave the sinkin' ship behind." -John C. Fogerty, Creedence Clearwater Revival


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:37 am 
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Mog

You write that a person that goes into a heavy debt to pay for his/her auditing will be PTS=Potential Trouble Source to it. That is sooooooooooo right!

I remember a young man (around 19 years old) who took a loan of about sixty thousand dollars to go up to clear.

His auntie was a very prominent scientologist. She was OT7 and a top FSM. She FSMed him (she got him to get the auditing).

He was led to believe that when he reached the level of clear he was going to be so capable as to make him capable of making money with the greatest of ease.

I used to talk to him often and I can tell you that it was an enormouse PTP=Present Time Problem for him.Very often he used to tell me that he was worried about the debt and that the auditing didn't go as fast as he thought it would,etc.

I used to tell him not to worry and that they knew what they were doing and that we had the best C/S=Case Supervisor he could've wished for.I wanted to make him feel better.

Even though I was a very commited scientologist at the time, in my heart of hearts I thought that it was very immoral to get the young boy into such a heavy debt.I,of course.kept the thought to myself because I did not want to go to ethics for it.

I don't know what happened with him but I know that many people were told that going up to clear and above was going to make them so capable that money was not going to be a problem for them.
Assuming one then dared to say that that promise/assumption didn't materialise then the person would be accused of having hidden standards or he/she needed more auditing because each case is different.
I've seen quite few people in this predicament.


The notion of accountability is completely foriegn to SCN as an organisation, it only applies to clients and staff stats. How convnient!!! :evil:

Opter


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:04 pm 
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Opter,

Why must a person be free of debt in order to join the SO do you think? In my opinion so that they do not have a continuous present time problem and potential PTS situation.

I was told not so long ago my a Reg that in order to get rich I needed to waste my money. I referred them to the Havingness Scale. Its in 8. 80 or one of those books. In order to make money you have to create. You would be responsible and you would confront your situation. When you put somebody into debt for auditing in my opinion they are not being responsible and you put them at the bottom of the Havingness Scale into must be confronted or must be contributed to.

In my opinion the purpose of the COS is not now to do something for the person it is simply to take their money. I am waiting to see if they get their hands on Beck and Spices money.

To Lucy Skywalker,

I am sorry you were betrayed. I have also been betrayed.

Some people have no integrity. It hurts more when you really liked and trusted the person that let you down.

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Mog


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:10 pm 
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Mog,

Welcome.

I'm glad to see you continue to post. It's when you start looking at the endless double standards within $cientology that you start really seeing how evil an organization it is.

The debt issue is definitely one of my biggest issues with the cult. They were always extremely flippant about my personal debt. I was always deeply offended by this. To make matters worse, they felt no obligation to deliver good customer service. Instead of working around your schedule, you were expected to "make up time" if you were going to miss course time. Talk about crazy!!

mb

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:18 pm 
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Mog Wrote:
Quote:
To Lucy Skywalker,

I am sorry you were betrayed. I have also been betrayed.

Some people have no integrity. It hurts more when you really liked and trusted the person that let you down.


What a life lesson, ey! I am thankful every moment of everyday that I am out of this mind-set. Yes we both have been betrayed. I'm at the point now where I embrace the experience and have compassion in my heart for those in and for those that were part of the betrayal. They are really only betraying themselves. I hope everyday that one day there is no longer Scientology "betrayals" for anyone.

As always thank you for sharing your heart and speaking out. As a wise person once told me, in certain endeavors "take the pearls and run". You have done this and are now here to share! :D

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beyond_horizons ... rest in peace dear friend


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:31 pm 
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opter wrote:
Even though I was a very commited scientologist at the time, in my heart of hearts I thought that it was very immoral to get the young boy into such a heavy debt.I,of course.kept the thought to myself because I did not want to go to ethics for it.


Dear Opter,

Huh. The idea of being sent to Ethics for being Ethical. Gotta stand in awe of chutzpah like that.

Love,

Os

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:31 am 
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Os

Ethics SCN style is: everything that advances and helps the cult=ethics.
All the rest= to hell with it. Who cares!

Opter


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