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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:33 am 
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Arnie returns, and in fine fettle. :)

Quote:
There is a huge effort to trap those leaving who suffer from "Wants Auditing" BEFORE they speak out in a court of law or the media.
It has seemed so to me as well.

Quote:
Gerry Armstrong needs the assistance of leaving members, to help deconstruct scientology now... not after they get a few freezone intensives.. and thus can be discredited upon the stand as the real kooks...
We have reached a tipping point. BFG, Victor, BTs2Free, or others are going to start talking and keep talking... to US Attorney's office, the FBI, etc., etc. Within the past few months there has been a shift; something is taking shape.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:21 pm 
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Wow!

I listened to this last night. It was a great description of the insidiousness of Organized Scientology (love that saying!)

This is great to give to anyone as a primer to how the cult runs like a corrupt corporation and habitually lies. I would love to sit a celebrity scientologist down and make them listen to this, but they would probably just cover their ears and run screaming from the room.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:54 pm 
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songbird wrote:
Arnie returns, and in fine fettle. :)

Quote:
There is a huge effort to trap those leaving who suffer from "Wants Auditing" BEFORE they speak out in a court of law or the media.
It has seemed so to me as well.

Quote:
Gerry Armstrong needs the assistance of leaving members, to help deconstruct scientology now... not after they get a few freezone intensives.. and thus can be discredited upon the stand as the real kooks...
We have reached a tipping point. BFG, Victor, BTs2Free, or others are going to start talking and keep talking... to US Attorney's office, the FBI, etc., etc. Within the past few months there has been a shift; something is taking shape.


Scientology is an addictive, mind altering product (hypnosis) hyped by a "legitimized" Organized Crime Syndicate.

Espousing the virtues of Scientology whilst pointing an incriminating finger at one of it's "legitimatized" dealers (the CoS) is the equivalent of a dope peddlar saying that his rival's Pot contains Paraquat therefore one should buy only from him. All the while the dope peddlar is meticulously grooming you to try Crack which is much more addictive and lucrative.

I hope FZers continue posting here so that people can see how insidious Scientology is, and hopefully reject the idea of becoming a footsoldier for the Godfather of SciFi / Fantasy-

L. Ron Hubbard dba David Miscavige, the Free Zone, Indy Scientology et al.


Love,

Os

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:45 am 
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This ONE PAGE
needs to be seen
by every scientologist
and every recovering scientologist

http://www.lermanet.com/reference/diane ... volney.jpg

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:55 am 
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I agree.................we've reaching

THE TIPPING POINT! :wink: :alien: :cheers:

Excellent job to ALL critics of the insidious organization, Scientology.

ROCK ON!

Tory/Magoo~~


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:23 am 
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lermanet_com wrote:
This ONE PAGE needs to be seen by every scientologist and every recovering scientologist
http://www.lermanet.com/reference/diane ... volney.jpg


Thanks, Arnie, for all the great work you're doing. And I love your 8-step program to getting out of scientology. When I was mid-way thru it, I couldn't believe I would "fall for the trash" that might lead me thru the rest of the steps... but those ARE a natural progression of steps. I have completed all the steps. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

:yes!:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:26 pm 
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songbird wrote:
We have reached a tipping point. BFG, Victor, BTs2Free, or others are going to start talking and keep talking... to US Attorney's office, the FBI, etc., etc. Within the past few months there has been a shift; something is taking shape.


Dear sb,

If scientology were a bird, it would be a vulture

I hope you are right. however, perhaps this is a jaundiced view, from counting the broken promises as members leave scientology and say nice words instead of acts.

"going to start talking and keep talking." in the real world, promises are not the thing.

Paraphrased from email with a journalist.."I spoke with xxxx but they still wont stand behind their story"

Message to the men who need to speak:

I cannot describe the blood, sweat and tears that have been paid by those who went before you to bring the media to this level of willingness.

Will all that effort be wasted because you don't have the courage to seize the moment? Are you are worried about your "SELF?" or have you set your eye upon the cash laced retirement home of the silenced? Ask any of those guys how it felt to sell their souls to scientology. It is not pleasant to lose your soul, even for attaining a happy, up-stat, well fed 'self'. (spit)

Back to Songbird..

In scientology there is NOTHING THERE but words. No substance at all. No act to follow. I have noted some leaving members can write good words but there is no substance to them. Just like Ron.

I hope you are right.

But This is what I see.

I see a flock of new escapees. Who try to talk the talk but won't actually stand behind their words. As if they were lined up on the fence, preening their feathers, saying look at me, I'm the grandest bird of all. A certain crowd gives them what they desire, attention and praise.

But I see a flock of scared, selfish, birds, who won't put their name behind their words.

See, they think the words are the things.

Perhaps these words sound harsh, but I'm deprogramming now... trying to bait them.. trying to trick them by textual confrontation (after they declined to chat by telephone) into being a little more honest with themselves, because you can't be honest with another until you are honest with yourself.

Hoping they will get off that fence, performing for that small crowd, and start flying with the hawks and eagles like Brennan, Armstrong and Wollershiem..

Time keeps on slippin.. into the future.



Sea Horse wrote:
lermanet_com wrote:
This ONE PAGE needs to be seen by every scientologist and every recovering scientologist
http://www.lermanet.com/reference/diane ... volney.jpg


Thanks, Arnie, for all the great work you're doing. And I love your 8-step program to getting out of scientology. When I was mid-way thru it, I couldn't believe I would "fall for the trash" that might lead me thru the rest of the steps... but those ARE a natural progression of steps. I have completed all the steps. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

:yes!:


The 8 steps are here LINK to 8 steps out of scientology

What is the fall for the trash phrase referring to?

I was in the cult and on staff for 10 years... here are the stages I have seen... as one exits the 'Hubbardian' mind control program....

1) There is something wrong here, if this is so great,then
why is (______) going on?

[ insert whatever atrocity you have recently witnessed ]

2) The guys at the top must be crazy

3) Miscavige and crew are evil demons from another dimension
[ or something similar ]

4) Hubbard went crazy at the end .....

5) Hubbard went crazy in 1966 Link

6) Hubbard was mad from the start. LINK

7) This whole thing is a complete fraud LINK

8) my god, its a criminal organization... with criminal convictions
all over the world... and it was only about money LINK

9) realization that THERE ARE NO OT's THERE!- just a dwarf!

10) realizing, after leaving Scientology, this makes one an ex-nazi and wanting to do something about it

-- because they again realize they are HUMAN beings and not ubermen.

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Last edited by lermanet_com on Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Clarifying "Fall for the trash"
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:46 pm 
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lermanet_com wrote:
Sea Horse wrote:
lermanet_com wrote:
This ONE PAGE needs to be seen by every scientologist and every recovering scientologist
http://www.lermanet.com/reference/diane ... volney.jpg

Thanks, Arnie, for all the great work you're doing. And I love your 8-step program to getting out of scientology. When I was mid-way thru it, I couldn't believe I would "fall for the trash" that might lead me thru the rest of the steps... but those ARE a natural progression of steps. I have completed all the steps. Thank you, thank you, thank you!


(snip)

What is the fall for the trash phrase referring to?


Hi Arnie,

What I meant was that when I was half-way thru the steps, I couldn't believe that the final steps would occur. I knew there were people who had left the Church of Scientology and went into the freezone, still believing that the tech worked. I also knew there were people who had left who decided that Scientology was all a bunch of bunk.

When I first left and started my research on the Internet, I could tell from reading an author where they stood on the scale. I didn't want to believe that the tech was a bunch of poop. I couldn't imagine that.

My phrase "fall for the trash" was speaking from my viewpoint of "half-way" thru the steps. The viewpoint of church=bad, tech=good. I didn't want to "fall for" the anti-tech viewpoints.

But I came to realize that it is true. It wasn't just lermanet.net, it was all the stories I read everywhere on the Internet. I spent a LOT of time reading and researching.

I found a lot of first-hand experiential stories and I decided that they couldn't all be false (the CofS viewpoint that anyone who leaves does so because of overts and they're just nattering now). These stories all dovetailed perfectly with each other. In all the stories I read, I found only one which sounded like it was written by someone "over the edge".

My viewpoints changed bit by bit as I read.

Eventually I came to know what I now know. And that, my dearest Arnie, puts me at the end of your 8 (or 10) steps.

Thank you.

:)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:44 am 
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dear SH,

got it, thanks, glad I could help, and thanks for taking the time to tell me

There are a lot of web pages about scientology acting badly, but not as much about how the conspiracy works.. Those tests they used to give us in school said I was pretty bright, so I wanted to figure out, exactly how that charming sociopathic monster did it... And anything I came across that helped me understand that, I saved it on that website. Outside of the media archive, it may not be organized well, but its most everything that I read that taught me something that I did not know or could not find elsewhere.

Hubbard said everybody had the same reactive mind..

Hubbard, a purveyor of fine rubbish


Hypnosis makes people think they are changed for the better. It is not real. The shortcoming of hypnosis is that it does not last. It requires constant re-enforcement. That is why all the events and meetings etc etc and even why so many mailings!... hypnosis demands repeated reenforcement.. of the suggestions...!!

Hubbard wrote a bulletin about it, called "SAG effect" to try and explain away the FACT of auditing not being permanent.

If scientology were a real, good thing, there would be OTs there and you would not be reading this line of text. Its simple... And

why are they dead? Asks Mike Gormez's website which Im glad has been mirrored

Because hypnosis hides symptoms of disease. Anything that hides symptoms of disease MUST be regulated by medical professonals - that is why strong pain killers require a doctor. Hypnosis, for a short time, can work as a pain killer. If you mask or hide the symptoms, you will be CURED! -- no, you will just not feel the pain as the cancer eats your lungs...get it??

Recovering scientologists need to watch out for the television... I dunno about you, but too many people are living life in soundbytes on CNN, and folks who have spent a long time in a trance of someone else's control... are VERY easy to hypnotise again... and TV does it.. you'll end up wanting all that glittery rubbish and thinking those people are like real people. They arn't... Real people dont watch TV, they live life,. and you'll be sitting there all day long.

It is such a joy to be out of that rat wheel. Every person is completely different.. utterly different. Humans are like snowflakes no two are the same. The challenge is to find your gift.. what you are good at doing and then find your mission, why are you here? What is your life purpose? Meditate on these things. You might be surprised how much you know. Also, by practicing meditation you will return control of your trance state to you, where it belongs.. not with some charlatan who used your ignorance to pick your pocket.

If you want to change the world all you have to do is to really favorably change just one person and that starts a chain of good results.. that travel forward through time, multiplying...

Life is a joy to behold, and death is nothing to be feared. Those who fear death have never lived. You get out of life what you put into it. I like the truth, warts and all, honor, love, family, the stars, children, pets, dreams and whispers in the dark.

Have nice dreams,

gnite

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:01 pm 
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Brennan Radio Show Downloads are now at


794


http://www.lermanet.com/audio/bren.wma 446
PASS THESE LINKS ON
http://www.lermanet.com/audio/bren.mp3 348


WOW




Title: Coping with Post Cult Trauma
Transcript is HERE
Do not blame the Victim, Essential listening for any ex-cult member, and for therapists, counselors and clergy who seek better results counseling ex-cult members.

Tape Recording in Real Media Format
Part 1 Part 2

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 Post subject: Scientology Sea Org Commander Larry Brennan
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:59 pm 
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Use this image for your link pages to Larry Brennan's Radio show

Scientology Sea Org Commander Larry Brennan Speaks Out

Image

LINK is http://www.lermanet.com/audio/

His show is the first entry, image will be added momentarily

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:55 pm 
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here is another image of Larry Brennan in civilian clothes, when he was at Hubbard's St Hill Manor (visible in the background) in UK


Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:48 pm 
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Complete transcript is webbed here: http://www.lermanet.com/audio/larry-brennan.htm

thank you to Feisty, banchukita and barbz for the amazing amount of work done to transcribe this and clean up the text.

meta content="feisty, xenubarb, banchukita" name="transcriber"

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:49 am 
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I think that Larry Brennan's interview deserves this thread just to bring this up front to be loud and clear.
(Thank you, Mark Bunker.)

http://xenutv.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/the-edge/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:37 am 
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This teaser might get it more widely read:


TS = Tom Smith

LB = Larry Brennan

TS: Welcome to the Edge. I'm you're host Tom Smith. Many of us are not informed of the inner workings of the Church of Scientology, founded by the American writer, L Ron Hubbard. The facade maintained by organized Scientology uses celebrity poster boys and religious pretense. Today on our program we are going to strip that image aside, and look at a few things that really go on.

Our guest is Larry Brennan who has held a number of positions with organized Scientology. He's been the director of all Scientology legal operations outside a litigation area, worldwide from mid 1976 through mid 1981. As the legal Branch One Director of the Guardian's Office Worldwide, he held similar positions prior to that in the United States Guardians Office. He's worked on organized Scientology's corporate evolution in 1981 through 1983 and presented to the leader of the Scientology organization, David Miscavige the planning for that. He was in charge of the Scientology Special Unit and Watchdog Committee, which was an oversight committee designated as member X in 1982 and 1983 working directly with David Miscavige on Scientology's corporate, legal and other external affair matters.

Welcome to the Edge, Larry.

LB: Oh thanks, Tom. It's real good to be here.

TS: Shall we start? Can you kind of give us some background about your involvement with the actual Scientology corporation?

LB: Well, yeah sure. I think you summarized it very well. Bottom line, I was in the Guardians Office in the United States Guardian's Office in 85, late 84, early 86 where we were in charge of the corporate work, corporate structure, tax status, et cetera, of Scientology organizations. Got to work under Hubbard on a number of things then, which may come up on this program, including the move of Flag, the Flagship to Clearwater, Florida and how that was done undercover. We covered a little bit of that on the program we did before.

Then I went to the Guardian's Office Worldwide at Saint Hill Manor in East Grinstead Sussex, England. Was there for about five years on running the legal outside of the courts and then went and did what they call their, "corporate sort out " and worked a Special Unit. Worked directly with "DM" - David Miscavige. This was a period of time when he was supposedly in Author Services and he has said in courts and various declarations that he was not involved in running the Church then, but he was, and I worked directly under him, but.

By way of a summary I suppose, I would say that Scientology, L Ron Hubbard is the acknowledged founder of Scientology, and he always ran it when he could, despite many statements that he had retired, or what have you, as the executive director, he continued to run it. And he ran it until Miscavige ran it, underneath Hubbard in 81-82 and then finally Miscavige took over on Hubbard's demise. But, despite a religious, caring, maybe decent front, put out by the organization it was really was built and run and controlled using constant lies and deception and what I consider fraud, as well as outright brutality and abuses of countless others. And this is just a summary and we can go into details there shortly.

It was run like this at one time by Hubbard via Miscavige, that's when they did the corporate evolution in 81 - 82. But really in my opinion here, and this is just my opinion, having worked with Miscavige and seeing the Hubbard orders at that time. Miscavige was a very poorly educated, I don't think he had been through high school when he was a kid. And he worked directly under Hubbard who at that time was certainly not at his best - he was very brutal, the type of orders he was given about taking over sectors and dealing with people and spitting on people and all that.

And I think Miscavige was very impressionable and he learned how to operate under Hubbard like that and on Hubbard's demise that's all Miscavige knew was that sort of brutality. It was sort of like, you know, he saw this abuse he learned by abuse and he's now the big abuser. Anyway, he took it to an entirely new level and he controls you know, an empire, financial empire worth certainly at least, hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions. He completely controls it as a dictator and that's basically a summary of what it was, but what I can go into to whatever degree you'd like as how it got to that point, and what changed and you know, so on and so forth. But I'd like to get some background behind it, but that's sort of a summary of it.

TS: OK. Well, basically can you kind of give us some background about what you did, your roll in the whole a ?

LB: Corporate?

TS: Right

LB: OK, well, in 1981 the Commodore's Messenger Organization acting on orders from Hubbard, and as carried out by "DM" - David Miscavige, actually ended up taking over the Guardian's Office and I was in the Guardian's Office Worldwide at the time so I was asked to go out to report to California for an urgent matter. So I went to Los Angeles and found out that they needed, that the people who were working on a Corporate Sort Out mission to corporately put right the affairs of Scientology were no longer there and they needed somebody else to run it and I ended up being the person to run what's called a "Mission," as a missionaire.

And so what we did is, well first of all, to give you a little bit of background. Just in the months - in the year prior to that, David Miscavige ran a mission called Mission Corporate Category Sort Out, it's known kind of as "MCCS" and that mission was allegedly to set the corporate affairs straight for Scientology and it had people, Gerry Armstrong was on it, he was going to get Hubbard's biography written. Laurel Sullivan was working on the corporate matters. But David Miscavige ran it. And the problem was, David was incompetent, and like I say, he didn't even have a high school education and he would not listen to the advice of the missionaires like Laurel and Gerry. Like for example, they were pointing out the things that were just fraudulent about Hubbard running the organization and yet Miscavige was trying to lie saying that he wasn't and they were trying to really get it so that Hubbard really didn't run it. So it could be run by the hierarchy of the Church and Miscavige didn't want that. Gerry Armstrong was telling them that what he needed to do, was stop all the lies about Hubbard - about his phenomenal accomplishments in life and the military and education and all that, they were totally false. And David Miscavige would not listen to that. And Hubbard was directly involved with it and I had many of Hubbard's orders at that time even in respect to that mission.

Later on, Miscavige testified in court that Hubbard was not involved, but he was. And the bottom line is that mission broke up because they wouldn't do what Miscavige and Hubbard wanted them to do and I ended up on a mission, instead of MCCS it was called Corporate Sort Out. To make along story short, we came up, the problem was, the apparent problem was, that most of the eggs of Scientology corporately were in a corporate basket of a corporation known as the Church of Scientology of California. In it was organizations like the Commodore's Messengers Organization, the Executive Director International's Organization, and major revenue-producing arms like Flag and Advanced Organization of Los Angeles, and American Saint Hill Organization, et cetera.

And what was happening was that there was alot of litigants under attorney Mike Flynn and others that were suing Scientology for various abuses and what have you. And, it was getting at that, corporate you know, big eggs in the basket organization. Really, the Corporate Sort Out was in a large part done to insulate and hide those assets from litigants. Now Miscavige specifically testified in court in the next decade, that was not the purpose, but it was really was one of the big purposes of it. The other one was to protect Hubbard and Miscavige, like the senior people in Scientology so that they could continue to run it without being legally liable for it.

So it was very complicated to say the least but that's what it was about. But what happened is, alot of us on the corporate mission thought that basically we could get it sorted out and there could be a new evolution in Scientology management. It really wouldn't be run like it shouldn't be run, it really wouldn't be money going, like millions of dollars were going to Hubbard under cover and that could stop.

What happened is, we spent millions of dollars, we spent a long time, we got a corporate planning together. I brought it to Miscavige myself and sat with him for a good five hours and answered his questions. And to summarize it all out, because alot of people here aren't going to be corporate people. There were four things that was going to be organized Scientology. the Church of Scientology International, a new corporation would actually manage Scientology. Not Hubbard, not Miscavige, it would be the Church of Scientology International. And in the Church of Scientology International would be the Commodore's Messenger Organization International, the Executive Director International's office. The real management, so that would be cool. They would have contracts with all the other Churches of Scientology, what have you and everything would be real smooth.

The second thing is, we created a body called Religious Technology Center. And it really was not supposed to be management, and it would focus on as it were, the "pureness" of Hubbard's technology covered by the trademarks. OK, that was fair enough. And then the third thing was, money could still go to Hubbard not by cover up and lies as was done before but actually by illegally defensible channels like royalties for his books and what have you. And lastly, Author Services would be created a company called Author Services International or Incorporated and it would be truly an organization that does what it says which is make money on Hubbard's fiction works, and would totally be separate out from the management of the Church of Scientology.

So really with those four things it would be a whole new evolution in Scientology's corporate status and management. It would be honest and straightforward and that's what the corporate sort out was designed to do. But the problem is - it didn't do it, it just made it look like that was the case. And, for example, and I don't want to bore anybody on this but as an example - prior to the corporate sort out, in the years prior there were several million dollars funneled to Hubbard through a phony corporation called Religious Research Foundation.

Now the Mission Corporate Category Sort Out, those guys were trying to figure out how to make that legally defensible, retroactively, like oh my God! What a mistake. What a horrible, thing, that this money, cause Hubbard was putting out issues to all scientologists that he never benefited from Scientology, he never took any money. But the fact is, he was taking several million dollars while staffs were starving.

--------------

Continues here
http://www.lermanet.com/audio/larry-brennan.htm
Audio files here
http://www.lermanet.com/audio/

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