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 Post subject: New Members
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:24 am
Posts: 7
Location: Colorado
Hi All, sorry for creating yet another topic, just wasn't sure the best place to start. So I figured I would start a topic for new members to come and introduce themselves.

I have been reading xenu for years now and really feel a connection to the rest of the folks on here. After a few attempts I finally got my account established and here I am today. My first post.

So here goes...

I'm not declared, yet. I'm just a guy who saw the light and routed out. I'm not in good standing with the church, not until I get my freeloader bill paid. I'm probably going to get busted by someone from OSA for posting here so I probably get my golden rod soon, I wonder if I can request it to be framed, they can add it to my tab.

I am one of those who was "born" into Scientology and really didn't know better. All I knew was this organization was out to save the world and make it a better place. Living in a country that was very hostile and still is today, though I live in the US now, I can appreciate what Scientology says they want to do. Why wouldn't I support an organization that is going to make the world a better place. Well as the old saying goes, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't.

I did a few courses at my local org, learning how to learn, etc. Nothing too fancy. Anyway time went on and I was getting close to graduating school, my home country was coming up with elections and my dad said to me, I'm not sure your future is very bright in this country and I think you should take this oppurtunity, this turned out to be me joining the Sea Org. I had no clue what the SO was then, my brother was in it and was telling me all the good things about it so I figured hell why not, any chance of surviving I will take. So here I am 16 leaving my home country and heading off to Florida. Woohoo this is going to be exciting.

Since no one at Flag could get my flight ticket approved I had to do my EPF at the local SO group until they could afford to fly me to Flag. Yeah I know, they couldn't afford $2000 for a round trip ticket which they had to do since I was being brought into the country under a tourist visa and not a religious or H1B1, more about this later.

After months at the local SO unit I finally was on my way, thanks to my dad paying for the ticket, he kinda got fed up waiting and wanted me out of the country. I arrived in Florida, 16, and totally amazing, here I am in awe of being in America, being in Florida, man this was my dreams come true.

My first job was in Dissem, shipping promo out to various orgs. It was ok but not what I really wanted to do but as you learn soon enough, what you want to do and what they want you to do is two different things. I remember the recruiter going, you can do anything you want, yeah right.

Another interesting fact I found out was, because I was on a tourist visa working in Florida, legally the church couldn't pay me my $50, when they could pay the staff because then it would have to be reported to the IRS. So I'm going, wait, you having me working illegally but you won't pay me because it's illegal. Huh good one. So for 2 years I wasn't paid a dime. But I had a best friend back then who bailed me out, he said that he would split his pay check with me 50/50 so that I could do my laundry, buy tooth paste, soap, uniform etc. Yes you have to pay for all this yourself, it's not provided at all. It's a joke really. He was truly a friend they I have lost now that I'm out.

Anyway from Flag I got shipped off to the Freewinds and from the Freewinds I got shipped off to Gold, via FLO, etc.

I have many stories some good some bad but instead of boring you all to death with one looooong post I will add these overtime.

My reasons for leaving were pretty basic, this is how I felt:

1. Do as I say not as policy says.
2. You are worthless.
3. We are not trying to make the planet better.
4. You will work until you drop dead.
5. Family is meaningless, I wasn't allowed to go see my grandmother on hear death bed and when dead, was denied to go to the funeral because this might make me want to blow.
6. You will work for 16 hours a day for 7 days a week 365 days a year, I think I might have had a total of 4 weeks vacation and 20 days off in 9 years.
7. The yelling and screeming.
8. If you love the military you will love the SO, SO would make Castro proud.

I'm still emotional, I have lost good friends. I have lost someone I love deeply to this day and it painful.

I get angry just thinking about the hypocrites running the place. When I got routed out I wasn't allowed to go to events, be part of the public side of things, not until my debt was paid, which is about $250k right now, mostly due to sec checks and other stupid auditing for postings. Not even bridge related, how sad. But when it came time to sell books courses, they would call me and say, you need to stay on source, I go well I tried by going to the events but you said no, so now I'm saying no to your books.

I have tried to reach out to my friends but as usual letters get "lost" and they can't be found when I call. Even the good roads good weather letters get trashed before it makes it to them.

Now that the Basics are released I'm getting 3 calls a night from various orgs and I go so how it bob I haven't heard from him and he won't answer my letters, knowing damn well why not, and they go, oh he is doing well let me get him for you, then I get the hard sell from them instead and I'm like screw this.

You probably wondering why I haven't just said f'off, basically I still have family in Scientology and I'm trying not to rock the boat if I can help it. Because when the day comes, it's the discount for me and my family and this would just kill my mom.

Some of you reading this might know me but for the most part I was a nobody in the SO, just another pawn doing the dirty work.

Some facts:
Joined SO in 91 at Flag and routed out in 2000 from FLO.

I have worked at Flag, Freewinds, FLO, in Hollywood and Gold via the Golden Age of Tech project, routed out after that.

Currently I'm residing in the beautiful state of Colorado and finally enjoying life.

I really hope to get in contact with people I once knew and who are no longer in the SO. Vivianne is one of those people. If you out there and read this. PM me!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:36 am
Posts: 2128
Location: California
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Welcome leadwrist!

Your Freeloader debt? Fagetaboutit. It's not a legal, moral or real debt.

Hope you enjoy the Image here.

.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:25 pm
Posts: 1174
It's great that you are free and have the courage to post here.It's amazing to see all these new people on the board!This can't be a good sign for CoS.The more critics we have the quicker we can bring down this nasty cult,and begin to free those who are trapped.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:52 pm
Posts: 1002
Location: Benicia, California
Welcome Leadwrist, so glad you could join us. It is great to have so many new people on board.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:38 pm
Posts: 74
Hi Leadwrist,
I just started posting here recently also.
I hope you're not paying off that "freeloaders debt". You paid it already with your blood, sweat, tears and time. That alone should feel like a relief, if you didn't already know that it's not necessary or warranted. Hey, maybe they'd have to pay you for child labor laws or something-since they didn't pay you for two years and you were under age.
It's odd, isn't it that we put up with the screaming and abuse. I think it's very sad that you couldn't visit your grandmom or go to her funeral. You're told you're the "cream of the cream", but you become curdled milk when you have no money &/or join staff. Or piss off an officer, or have a down stat, or want to visit relatives, or question anything in $cn, etc etc.
I look forward to your posts- lucky for you that you got out while you are still very young.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am
Posts: 9846
If they ask about the Freeloader debt, tell them you're not paying. IF they sqawk, tell them to go ahead and sue you, and THEY'LL go to prison for child labor violations.

You don't owe them any meetings, phone calls, speeches, signatures, routing, courses, sec checks, or explanations. You don't have to list the crimes of Scientology. Just say "It's not for me," and hang up. Don't let them into your house, your car, or go to a building where they can gang up on you. You may end up agreeing to something just to get out of the building. Don't believe them if they say you just have to do X, and you can leave in good standing. They will STILL not let you leave in good standing.

I hope you get a green card and move to a place CoS doesn't know. If you have any immigration issues CoS may make trouble for you. If CoS tells lies to your employer in order to make you pay the Freedloader debt, they are violating The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. See
http://www.spendonlife.com/asktheexpert ... _debt.aspx
Disputed debt is also covered, so even though the Freeloader Debt is uncollectible, you are protected against harassment.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm
Posts: 9326
Freeloader debt - if it wasn't so horrible it would be laughable.

Here's what to say when someone from the cult brings up your freeloader debt.

"I am not going to pay this to you unless I get an order from a judge in a court of law, and even then I may appeal such a decision. Now if you say another word about that to me I will interpret it as harassment."

They may respond by offering you some kind of scientology justice procedure. If they do tell them when you said a 'court of law' what you meant was a court of the United States of America.

Next - is there anyone posting here who has a connection with someone who knows about immigration law and who can help leadwrist get a green card or immigrant status?

I'm looking forward to reading many more posts from you, leadwrist.

_________________
"I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious cult."
Rita Rudner

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http://www.worldcat.org./profiles/Wieber/lists/563909


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:58 am
Posts: 1587
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
Leadwrist, I like your writing. I like your nic too.

I believe you just got excellent advice and tips and have found a group of people who are interested in getting you going. I'm truthfully not much help to you probably but there are some high-quality people around here.

I like the way you are telling your story leadwrist. I feel you are telling the simple truth. In my simple world that is kept in a treasure chest.

Good-luck to you Sir. I would like to hear some stories. I know one thing for sure, that was a true friend that split his pay with you. Maybe when he blows you can pay him back...you gotta try and pay him back. I don't think I've ever in my life had a friend like that.


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 Post subject: Re: New Members
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:05 pm
Posts: 2119
Location: Clearwater Florida USA
leadwrist wrote:
...not until my debt was paid, which is about $250k right now, mostly due to sec checks and other stupid auditing for postings. Not even bridge related, how sad.


When I routed out of the Sea Org, I paid my freeloader debt on the way out the door. (I was planning on going back to my old org and routing straight onto training I'd had paid for previously.) I told them I would NOT pay them for sec checks because that was "not auditing" (remember the phrase "I'm not auditing you!"). No one argued with me and I never paid for sec check auditing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:24 am
Posts: 7
Location: Colorado
Thank you all for the messages. It's uplifting to have people that understand where I have come from. It's been hard to explain to my friends here and I almost want to say, seriously, you have to have been there to know what it was like. But trust me, you really don't want to know first hand.

As for the advice, it's much appreciated. After reading Don's post I hunted around and found that in Colorado, Statute of Limitations for unseattled debt is 6 years. Seems like every state has their limitations ranging from 3 years to 6 years. So really legally there is nothing they can do. Not saying their practice was very legal to begin with.

I really have no desire to pay my freeloader. My justification is pretty simple, 9 years of labor, very little pay if any. Had to buy everything myself including the uniform, that really chap's my ass. Put in 16 hour days and basically all they covered was berthing and very bad food. When on the FP "Financial Planning" commitee we basically allocated around $2 a day per person for food. I guess when being given rice and beans for breakfast, lunch and dinner one can do it for $2 a day.

If I was in the real world, I think I could have retired a millionnaire with all the work I put in.

Anyway it goes again to my whole feeling of hypocrites, this time, the policy on exchange. Right now they are out exchange with me.

Tell you what, when they pay my invoice for service, I will pay off my freeloader. Deal?

Antique, don't sell yourself short, just being here and communicating provides immense help, and it is appreciated. As for my true friend still under the spell, it's the one reason I really don't want to piss any one off. I have pretty much decided to keep the door open. Let them call, let me play nice, let them think they are in control, because the minute one of my friends decides to leave, I will be waiting with open arms and a place for them to stay and get them back on the road to recovery.

I was watching Criminal Minds lastnight on TV and something rang very true to me, for those that missed the show, it's about FBI profilers solving cases and lastnights one was about someone on a serial killing in Florida and making it look like satanic rituals. Anyway two of the agents were talking and a 3rd agent said to the second, if you believe in God you have to believe in the devil. They go hand in hand. Well when you believe Scientology is the way and the teaching will get you there, you have to believe the negative too, that you get cancer from reading OT materials, that you will forever be lost if you don't move up the bridge, it goes hand in hand, you can't believe Scientology will help without believing what they say about the opposite side of the spectrum. Anyway back to the point I was trying to make, I don't believe in the technology they offer and thus I don't believe in the consequences they teach, basically, they have lost their control over my mind.

Wieber, as for Green Card, I'm covered, one of the things holding me back from getting an account and posting was I wanted to ensure CoS couldn't screw with my immigrations. Unless they can get congress to boot me out, I'm here for good. :) Also, part of the process of getting citizenship was to disclose any immgration issues I was involved in, so yes the INS has my story, I really hope they do something too with the info.

As for anyone showing up on my door unannounced, just remember Colorado does have the, make my day law. All joking aside, I'm not too worried about it, I'm 85 miles away from the closest class IV org and a few thousand miles away from the closest SO.

As for getting the bill reduced, meh, why bother if I don't really plan on paying it. I might just go through the process just to make someone work. Hehehe.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:26 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:41 am
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Location: Thunderdome
Wieber wrote:
Here's what to say when someone from the cult brings up your freeloader debt.

"I am not going to pay this to you unless I get an order from a judge in a court of law, and even then I may appeal such a decision. Now if you say another word about that to me I will interpret it as harassment."


I prefer the way the late, great author Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. used to phrase it. In some of his books, the government had abolished welfare and other government welfare programs. In their place, it has established new artificial families, and everybody was assigned a new middle name -- for instance, Daffodil, Amoeba, Beryllium, Watermelon and Chickadee.

If you were a Daffodil, for example, and down on your luck, you could seek out other members of the Daffodil "family" and ask for help. Like your biological family, they might open you with open arms. However, like your biological family, they might also say:

"Go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut. Go take a flying fuck at the mooooooooon!"

I think that's a pretty good reply to anybody from Co$ who tries to collect a so-called "freeloader debt."


Last edited by spacecootie on Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:32 am 
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leadwrist wrote:
As for the advice, it's much appreciated. After reading Don's post I hunted around and found that in Colorado, Statute of Limitations for unseattled debt is 6 years. Seems like every state has their limitations ranging from 3 years to 6 years. So really legally there is nothing they can do. Not saying their practice was very legal to begin with.


Forget the statute of limitations; the Sea Org contract is unenforceable per se. What judge is going to say, "Hey, you gotta pay because you didn't come back for the next ten million lifetimes?"

I have never heard of Co$ suing anybody for breach of this contract. Even if they tried, you would respond with a motion for summary judgment, basically a document saying, "Hey, judge, these people have no chance of winning this lawsuit, so please throw them out of your court before they waste any of the court's time."

No judge is going to order anybody to pay for the privilege of serving as a slave because they didn't stick around for a billion years. Co$ would get laughed out of court in a nanosecond.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:03 pm 
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Location: Denmark
No, they're not gonna sue anyone for not paying the freeloader debt. They know very well that it would be laughed out of court. It is not the 'WOG' jusitce system they hold threathingly over your head. It is Cof$'s own justice system they shake at you!

"The only justice system in this sector of the universe that actually works".. Remember?

And even when inside you can be declared an SP by whim of some executive who got the wrong head out of bed first in the morning. When 'outside' as a former staff with a freeloader debt.. Well, you'll probably suspect about the declare when your scio friends start disconnecting you. I doubt that you will even receive the goldenrod.

I did pay my freeloader debt. For similar reasons that 'leadwrist' states. I wanted to stay in good standing to keep my family. In reality one is in a blackmail situation: Tow the line or lose your family!

I knew very well that the freeloader debt was illegal according to WOG law. Hmm.. Another reason to not pay the freeloader debt is that you will become a target for the registrars emmediatly as it's payed! - They were on to me with a vengeance the very next day!

If you manage to avoid buying services, the registrars will eventually give up. They will then have you declared for being disaffected and rejecting auditing. Or some

This can happen even to public, who won't buy services.. My friend 'the big oaf' had a knack of telling registrars off, politely but firm. This was back in late 1970's. Now, he wasn't dissaffected at all. He was interested and fascinated by Dianetics. When he declined to buy services, that was just a financial decision. He didn't have the money quite simply.. Yup! - He had used the money he did have on $cientology already!

But there was talk of declaring him! Policies quoted about people who rejected auditing. - (I was not supposed to overhear that or know about it.)

:onebounce:

_________________
Ask not what Scientology can do for you, ask what the F*arck! is going on.


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 Post subject: Leadwrist
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:40 pm
Posts: 94
Location: NYC
Forget about your so called "Freeloader debt"
this is where the $$ would go anyway:

L. Ron Hubbard, the trademark" is that trademark owned by the "Church of Spiritual Technology (CST), a FOR PROFIT organization (and acknowledged as such by the IRS) who is led by three non-scientologists Special directors. (It main figure head being Meade Emory, a non-scientologist who was the IRS High Comissioner for many years and was instrumental in giving Scientology it's tax exemption status and subsequently resigned from the IRS and took over the finances of Scientology. (After dealing with a small detail, getting a drugged and insane L Ron Hubbard to change his will and sign over his estate to CST the day before his death from "natural" causes). The Church of Scientology DOES NOT CONTROL CST, but rather the opposite. The Trademaks, L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology and Dianetics are controlled by them and the Church of Scientology has agreed to not appoint or remove any of its Senior Management structure without their approval. Note that the President of CST (a Scientologist) has no true power and that only its non-scientologist board of Directors does.

Scientology is a cash generating con for the benefit of the Ex-Commissioner of the IRS and a few other hidden well placed "businessmen" who give a cut to Miscaviage in exchange for his being the front man. As for the Sea Org, it is a source of cheap labor provided via brainwashing that would make migrant workers pay look like the compenastion of hedge fund managers.

So, fuck your "Freeloader" debt


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am
Posts: 9846
Leadwrist, good for you for getting safely away. Good luck and enjoy making and keeping your own money (after taxes!)


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