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 Post subject: De-programming, de-programmers
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:49 pm 
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What are the opinions about de-programming ( DP ) on the board ?

Imo there is a real need for DP, let me explain.

While researching CoS I found the Freezone. All I knew about them was what I have seen in the 'Beginners Guide to LRH' on TV. I thought the freezoners had erased all madness and insanity out of scn and transformed it into something valuable, sane and working. Well, the facts are quite different. Their Bridge goes right to OT-40. They promise that it can be done for 90% with Solo Auditing, and if you want there is a fast-track to OT8, excalibur in two years ( which in that case, requirs full-time auditing ).

Hypnotized Souls until they die, LRH is no longer here to end the hypnosis.

I would have expected to see professionals offering de-programming services but I haven't seen any yet. A business-opportunity?

Leaving the CoS or being offloaded by the CoS it is exactly the same, the human is left with a tremendous void in his or her life. It touches the identity itself. Some hide their insanity in the freezone others here. Leaving is not enough. All coursework and auditing has to be undone by a very, very serious track of DP.

Agree? Disagree?

scino

P.S.
Perhaps one Xanax ( or Ritalin, or OxyContin, or whatever medicins there are ) shuts off the hypnosis instantly, there must be an explanation for the hate against the pharmaceutical industry.


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 Post subject: Re: De-programming, de-programmers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:41 am 
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scino wrote:
I thought the freezoners had erased all madness and insanity out of scn and transformed it into something valuable, sane and working. Well, the facts are quite different. Their Bridge goes right to OT-40.

Wrong. That's Rons Org, the group featured in the TV programme. 'Freezone' refers to any group outside the CoS that is claiming to be practising Scientology.
The stuff they claim to have dropped is the totalitarian, out-ethic behaviour that caused most of them to leave the cult. You take the courses offered, if you don't find them true for you then fine.

Quote:
Leaving the CoS or being offloaded by the CoS it is exactly the same, the human is left with a tremendous void in his or her life. It touches the identity itself. Some hide their insanity in the freezone others here.

There is no single way out, since these are personal paths to sanity and reason. It is the highways to self-delusion that are well traveled, with plenty of tour guides and signposts.

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 Post subject: Re: De-programming, de-programmers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:17 am 
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scino wrote:
What are the opinions about de-programming ( DP ) on the board ?

This one worked for me: http://www.lermanet.com/8steps.html
along with LOTS of reading on the Internet.

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 Post subject: Re: De-programming, de-programmers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:25 am 
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http://www.lermanet.com/8steps.html wrote:
1) There is something wrong here, if this is so great, then
why is (______) going on?
2) The guys at the top must be crazy
3) Miscavige and crew are evil demons from another dimension
4) Hubbard went crazy at the end .....
5) Hubbard went crazy in 1966
6) Hubbard was mad from the start.
7) This whole thing is a complete fraud
8) my god, its a criminal organization... with criminal convictions
all over the world... and it was only about money
9) realization that THERE ARE NO OT's THERE!


Excellent ! The Bridge OUT. From insanity to sanity.

On a micro level this is sort of what I am going through myself. I had real wins from GTD, Anthony Robbins, so why not Scientology ( that was a year ago ). I started to investigate and soon I had the idea I was part of a movie, that I was dreaming. IS THIS REAL? How can they be so stupid? No one was really stupid, I answered that one. Anyway. I guess I am somewhere between 5 and 6 on the Bridge at the moment, to be hounest.

Maybe it is naive to think that there is an easy way out. If there was a program then one of the ex-Scientologists would have come up with one LONG ago.

Yesterday there was an interview on the radio with an ex-PM of my country. In the past he had a lot of trouble with the press. They simply told great lies about him. We know the truth now, but at the time he suffered. Sort of Clinton Lewinsky stuff with the difference that in his case nothing happened. Anyway..., he said something very, very intelligent imo. He said something like this...

From some interview with a PM wrote:
I can take all the injustice now. If something like that would happen today I would handle it different. Why? Because everywhere in the world there is great, great injustice going on, almost like madness. Why would that not happen to me?"

A lot of people ( outside ) know that Scientology is a scam, a criminal organisation. And they are allowed to go on. ... Same for the war in Iraq. ... And 9/11 was a scam too. The list seems endless.

It is so good to see that you are exposing them. Please keep fighting against Scientology. Never give up. Fight harder. Fight intelligent. Be organized. Their stats are yours, reversed.

========
Happy 2008
========


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 Post subject: Re: De-programming, de-programmers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:45 am 
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scino wrote:
I would have expected to see professionals offering de-programming services but I haven't seen any yet.


Here are some of many places where professionels helps people who have been in cults:

In U.S.A.:
The Wellspring retreat and ressource center
http://wellspringretreat.org/

In Germany:
Wohnhof e.V.
http://www.wohnhof.de/

In U.K.
Hope Valley Counselling
http://www.hopevalleycounselling.com/

Also each year ICSA has a workshop for ex-cult members
http://cultinfobooks.com/detail.asp?pro ... CONF-EXMCO

Another place to find groups for ex cult members are reFOCUS
http://www.refocus.org/


Dorthe


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 Post subject: Re: De-programming, de-programmers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:56 pm 
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scino wrote:
I guess I am somewhere between 5 and 6 on the Bridge at the moment, to be hounest.

What do you mean?


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 Post subject: Re: De-programming, de-programmers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:36 pm 
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moontaco wrote:
scino wrote:
I guess I am somewhere between 5 and 6 on the Bridge at the moment, to be hounest.

What do you mean?


I should not have used the word Bridge when speaking with ex-Scientologists, I guess. And it should be Bridge Out instead of Bridge.

I mean that imo Hubbard collapsed under the huge success of Scientology and the literally millions of money he could and wanted to spend. From a beggar to the owner of several villas in the UK, wow! He knew what poverty and failure was so he must have appreciated it. The dark side was probably all these people looking at him as if he was a near-God. It takes a lot of character to stay normal in such a situation.

His techniques work. Of course they work! If you are young and you get into Scientology it takes you 10-30 years to figure out it is a scam. You see people literally change when they enter the cult. I think that part of the Tech could be utilized in a positive way, and I think it is already done but elsewhere by others.

I do not think ( yet??? ) that Hubbard was a Mafia-leader type-of-person only after money. There are simpler ways to get money. Yes, I heard of fair-game practice and the stealing of documents and the convictions but that is after he got insane and paranoid.

I have seen the documentary 'Secret Lives Of...'. Ex-followers speak highly of Hubbard upto the point he wants to take over Rhodesia. After that it went wrong, the tiranny and insanity started.

That's my opinion -today-. A year ago I thought nothing was wrong with Hubbard, I never had any interest in Scientology and what I learned is not something you can imagine easily. Maybe in a while I see him primarily as a criminal, I don't know. Don't think so.

I do think people need a sort of Tech, although very different than the Scientology Tech, to manage their lives. Just look at the good a simple tool like GTD can do if you are a bit un-organized in your life. But that is off-topic here. Zillions of GTD forums out there.


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 Post subject: Re: De-programming, de-programmers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:26 pm 
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How to move beyond steps 5&6 on the Bridge Out

For me what did it was discovering and reading ANYTHING from L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. (aka Ron DeWolf).

First I read a few essays (you can find two on www.researchthetruth.com; it's a short website). I was so intrigued that I bought a second-hand copy of "L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman" from Amazon.com. LRH JR's name was on the cover so I wanted to read more of what he said.

I inhaled the book in about 3-4 days and that was THE END for me of Scientology. I knew the secret from the beginning (thanks to LRH JR and the other interviewees) and had moved from lermanet's Bridge Out stage 5/6 to the end of the Bridge Out. That was it for me. I'm tellin' ya, I didn't "have to" do any more research about Scientology or the Church of Scientology after that.

Wow!

So then I bought a copy of the book for a friend of mine (gal, mid 40s, was dragged into the Sea Org at 9 yrs old, left, went back in herself around 14 yrs old, left, left Scn with her mother harassing her for years to get back in, still thought that Scientology worked but she just didn't like the organization). She read the book in TWO days.

That was the end for her. (Then she bought a copy for another friend of hers! Notice, no one is parting with their own copies?)

I'm telling you, that book tells the behind the scenes "intention" of L. Ron Hubbard from the start. Once you know that information, you CANNOT be a freezoner. (That's my opinion.) You will no longer be sitting on the fence about whether Scientology works or not, should you do it or not, etc. etc. etc.

Get thee a copy!


Sea Horse

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 Post subject: Re: De-programming, de-programmers
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:21 pm 
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Sea Horse wrote:
I'm telling you, that book tells the behind the scenes "intention" of L. Ron Hubbard from the start. Once you know that information, you CANNOT be a freezoner. (That's my opinion.) You will no longer be sitting on the fence about whether Scientology works or not, should you do it or not, etc. etc. etc.

Get thee a copy!


Sea Horse


I am reading, but I am not making progress. Ron de Wolf says
Ron de Wolf wrote:
One of the things that really drove Dad bananas and truly freaked him out was actual demonstration in his presence of Clear and OT ability.

In the transcript of the tape de Wolf several times testifies that he has seen people with actual Clear and OT ability. This contradicts 9. There is no such thing as OT. He says that he left scn at the end of the fifties. He still speaks a lot of Scientologese in 1984. Bank, clear, OT, n-th Dynamic, TR, MEST, and so on. Speaking the language of a cult is a sign of still being under the influence of a cult. How can you take someone seriously who testifies that OT's exist? Unless you believe in OT and are thus hypnotized. Think about it.

I located the book, I am awaiting its download. Thanks for the tip.


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 Post subject: Re: De-programming, de-programmers
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:02 am 
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scino wrote:
Ron de Wolf says
Ron de Wolf wrote:
One of the things that really drove Dad bananas and truly freaked him out was actual demonstration in his presence of Clear and OT ability.

In the transcript of the tape de Wolf several times testifies that he has seen people with actual Clear and OT ability. This contradicts 9. There is no such thing as OT.


Ah, I see the contradiction. Well I got into Scientology from another "religion" prior to it. In that religion, there was a state to achieve which in Scientology would be called "OT" (or Clear). When I was introduced to Scientology and saw "The Bridge to Total Freedom" and had OT explained to me... I said "So, anyone can start here (pointing at the bottom), and do all these steps (waving finger upwards), and you WILL achieve here (pointing at OT)?" The answer from the reg was "yes".

"Where do I sign up!!!!!!!!!!" was my excited answer.

Keep in mind that in my prior religion, the state of OT was described, desired, and wasn't achieved by anyone there... regardless of how many years they were practicing the techniques that would allegedly get you there. But, gee, Scientology has steps (gradients) and promises anyone/everyone can achieve it? Yes, I signed up. (Gullible me!)

I tell you this story to show that the "state of OT" is a state described in many religions, philosophies, practices, etc. They just call it other things.

Scientology purported to achieve that state through it's processes. It was a lie. Those processes do NOT achieve OT. Hence, step 9 "There are not OTs!"

However, there are people on Earth (in or out of Scientology, heard of or never heard of Scientology) who are in a condition which indicates achievement of, or displays abilities that we think of as... "OT".

The use of the words "Clear" and "OT" by LRH JR are concepts.

In other words, he was saying that anyone who appeared to be more competent, not dramatizing, in command of one's own feelings, having altitude in attitude and behavior, not prone to being cowered, has lots of abilities and few disabilities... in other words they were inherently POWERFUL... these were the people who L. Ron Hubbard feared.

Most bullies cower in the face of confidence.

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 Post subject: Re: De-programming, de-programmers
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:34 am 
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scino wrote:
moontaco wrote:
scino wrote:
I guess I am somewhere between 5 and 6 on the Bridge at the moment, to be hounest.

What do you mean?


I should not have used the word Bridge when speaking with ex-Scientologists, I guess. And it should be Bridge Out instead of Bridge.

Oh, I see--you were referring to the 8 steps. I didn't get that--but "Bridge Out" makes it clear.

(I'm not an ex-Scientologist, but I think you can use the word Bridge more easily with ex-Scientologists than with those who've never been in. It's just a matter of making it clear when you don't mean the Scn Bridge!)


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 Post subject: The book has arrived
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:24 am 
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Sea Horse wrote:
How to move beyond steps 5&6 on the Bridge Out
Get thee a copy!


This is the book, right ??
Madman, Messiah wrote:
PART I

(1967-1984)
THE ADVENTURES OF THE
COMMODORE

1. A Sea~dring Messiah with a "Mission to Save
the Planet" 19
2. Searching for Treasure Stashed in Previous Lives 38
3. L. Ron and the Beast 45
4. "Mankind's Only Hope" 57
5. The Liability Cruise and Other Adventures 66
6. Wogs Versus Operating Thetans 74
7. Fear in the Master's Eye 87
8. Crucifying the Evil Out! 95
9. The Brainwashing Manual 101
10. The Sea Org Goes Ashore 112
11. "I Let Him Undress Me Without Resisting" 123
12. Souls Turned Inside Out 132
13. Snow White and the Scientology 11 147
14. Freaking Out Paulette 164
15. "I Resigned in 1966~'--Hubbard, from Secret
Desert Command Post 171
5

Corydon\Messiah or Madman\Page.00004
6 (:<,NTENTS
16. The Saviour Lives Just Down the Road! ltl0
17. Hubbard Derails a Reform Movement 191
18. Hubbard's "Billion Dollar Caper" 1Y8
19. The Saviour's Revenge 203
20. Thousands Break from Hubbard~s Church 211
21. Hubbard's PR Biographies Exposed 219
22. "Operation Juggernaut": Hubbard Targets
Boston Lawyer 230
23. The Boss's "Withholds" Are Revealed
in a Wog Court 238

PAHT II

"UNSCRUPULOUS
WOMANIZER" TO "ASCENDED
MESSIAH"

1. Sex Magic in Pasadena 255
2. The Origins of Dianetics 262
3. Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health 274
4. The "Kidnapping" 281
5. Sara Speaks 287
6. Dianetics Abandoned 296
7. "The Blood of Their Bodies, the Blood
of Their Souls" 304
8. Scientology in the Fifties 309
9. Lord of the Manor 315
10. Clay in the Masteis Hands 319
11. Heads in Toilets 337
12. Are You Haunted? 349
13. Through the Wall of Fire! 360
14. The Sea Org Revisited 367
15. Typewriter in the Sky 375
16. Reflections
384
The Aftermath
Glossary 390
394


It's out there. For those who can't find it and are nevertheless interested let me know. The book is in .txt format and is +/- 900Kb, zipped approx. 380Kb.


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 Post subject: Re: The book has arrived
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:07 pm 
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scino wrote:
This is the book, right ??
Madman, Messiah wrote:
PART I

(1967-1984)
THE ADVENTURES OF THE
COMMODORE
(snip)

It's out there. For those who can't find it and are nevertheless interested let me know. The book is in .txt format and is +/- 900Kb, zipped approx. 380Kb.


Yes, that's the book. Yes, it's available for free online, but only in plain text form (as best I can find). The book itself is easier to read and has italics and indentations where they ought to be. I bought my copy for about $4 plus $4 shipping.

Here's the 1992 paperback version on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0942637577/factnet-20

Here's the 1987 version on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/L-Ron-Hubbard-Messiah-Madman/dp/0818404442
You can get these for $3 plus $4 shipping!

Amazon Canada, UK and Germany also have copies for sale.

I have both versions and they are so similar that buying the 1987 book would be sufficient.

An ebook (in plain text only) is available for free here: http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:54 am 
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Now read this one:

Bare-Faced Messiah, the True Story of L. Ron Hubbard
by Russell Miller
http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfmconte.htm

As an aside, in the new year I will be out looking for an exit counselor. I have a few leads to follow. If anything positive comes from this I'll let you know about it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:10 pm 
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Location: Hop-Skip Away from Scientology TODAY!
summer of 2005, Myself and Steve Hassan did a cold intervention -
on the hot shot, young, handsome, haughty, and proud, Director of personnel for San Fransico Org. My Job was to plan and start the intervention and bring him to a state of being willing to talk to a psychologist - a counselor.. Steve Hassan and then he went to Well Spring...

It took me 3 days and he cracked.. just like Flo Conway describes in Snapping... and somewhat like the last scene of the Excorcist.. only I shook off that evil as it his face totally changed,and it came over and looked into my soul saying how dare you.. but.. instead of jumping out the window to my death on the excorcist stairs..( Which, incidentally are in the neighborhood I grew up in, Georgetown.) I shook it off, and kept going..



Tory OT7, Mr Pattinson OT8 and a few others, even members of my own family, helped via telephone as he doubted my words.. you see, everything I told him had to make as much sense to him as it did to me. All I did was tell him my route I took out of scientology.

On a windwashed moonlit night, on a rolling, open golf course in wide open nebraska outside of omaha, I walked up to this young man and introduced myself.. and handed him my yellowed with age old OTIII Certificate.. as my means of introduction...

A close friend of the family who witnessed the opening moves and the resulting heated discussions, described it to be like a japanese samuari fighting scene with words and ideas.. this proud young man would throw up all of Ron's best lines and I sliced them and diced them...

I took time to train the young man on Fallacious Argument.. and got him to agree to refrain from using such techniques .....

On the 2nd day, the kid was beginning to doubt 'Ron' but still doubted me more, and I challenged him to a chess game, so that he might judge my intellectual powers.. he won the 1st game fairly quickly... The 2nd game, was the toughest game Id played in years as my entire credibility and this young man's future hung upon what moves I made on 64 squares of wood..

.I might add, he became over confident and lost the long 2nd game.. checkmate

and after bringing him to a point where he did not want to go back to rejoin SF Staff.. or join the sea org.. but still wanted to return to SF to "get his stuff" I called in Tommy Gorman who whose girlfrend of 14 or 15, and had been raped by a scientologist course supervisor..LINK

Tommy was the same age as this kid, me being the wise old fart.... so I told the father we HAD to fly Tommy Gorman into Omaha Nebraska...from San Francisco overnight...

Tommy took him the last step, to not wanting to even return to SF for his possessions ( scientology roomates, OSA etc plus crossing a state line...we wanted the job finished where we were - forever.

Steve Hassan crafted a statement to OSA from the kid and his family, telling them that ANY further contact by scientolopgy would be considerd criminal harrasment and we faxed it to them.

HA!


My breifing to the family of this effort, was the contents of a Denver Radio show. on KHOW, see http://www.Lermanet.com/audio/
I was lucky enough... (sometimes I have difficulty with how lucky I get when Im up against the wall, .) to be able to use that radio show, to brief the members of this kids family as they drove from denver to omaha for the big greek wedding of this kids brother.

The excitement was intense and I enjoyed playing the part of Father Flanagan

The whole story of this effort was so mind boggling, my head still reels when I think about it...and I have never done a job so difficult for me in my entire life... ever before, or ever since...

That kid went all Ten steps out in 4 days,
and then he willing agreed to spend the next week at Well Spring...which is essential to a full relapse-proof recovery

The effort almost killed me with fatigue from the mental effort.

This is Gods truth.

Arnie Lerma

This is a picture of me and steve, in the lobby of the hotel in omaha, basking in our success... after a son had been brought back to a family , and a family had been brought back together.

Image

if I look exhausted, you now know why

If tommy gorman is reading this, Id like him to do a follow up and correct any factual errors in this rendition of this life changing event.

Further reading: Ted Patrick's "Let our children go" Chapter 1

in closing, someone I love very much sent this to me this morning after reading recent threads on ARS newsgroup...with a note saying "this is you." I read it and thought it was beautiful...

The current of life - The Alchemist, page 74

"The boy was beginning to understand that intuition is really a sudden immersion of the soul into the universal current of life, where the histories of all people are connected, and we are able to know everything, because it's all written there."

"Tell your heart that the fear of suffering is worse than the suffering itself. And that no heart has ever suffered when it goes in search of its dreams, because every second of the search is a second's encounter with God and with eternity".

"every second of the search is an encounter with God," the boy told his heart. "when I have been truly searching for my treasure, every day has been luminous, because I've known that every hour was a part of the dream that I would find it. When I have been truly searching for my treasure, I've discovered things along the way that I never would have seen had I not had the courage to try things that seemed impossible for a shepherd to achieve."

So, his heart was quiet for an entire afternoon. That night, the boy slept deeply, and when he awoke, his heart began to tell him things that came from the Soul of the World. It said that all people who are happy have God within them. And that happiness could be found in a grain of sand from the desert, as the alchemist had said. Because a grain of sand is a moment of creation, and the universe has taken millions of years to create it. "Everyone on earth has a treasure that awaits him", his heart said. "We, people's hearts, seldom say much about those treasures, because people no longer want to go in search of them. We speak of them only to children. Later, we simply let life proceed, in it's own direction, toward it's own fate.

But, unfortunately, very few follow the path laid out for them - the path to their Personal Legends, and to happiness. Most people see the world as a threatening place, and, because they do, the world turns out, indeed, to be a threatening place.

"So we, their hearts, speak more and more softly. We never stop speaking out, but we begin to hope that our words won't be heard; we don't want people to suffer because they don't follow their hearts."

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