Letter to Karin Pouw from BFG

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blownforgood
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Letter to Karin Pouw from BFG

Post by blownforgood » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:27 am

Dear Karin,

I saw your response to the new Tom Cruise book.

I could not help but to wonder if maybe you had forgotten to think of a few families when you made the below statement.


7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to
their family if they don't support the religion?


'This allegation is not only false; it is the opposite of what the
Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw



Well now, Karin, let’s pretend that you have been in a bubble for the last twenty years and have no idea about any of the hundreds of families that OSA itself is actively keeping apart with SP Declares and forcing members to disconnect from due to legal threats. Let’s say you are only aware of people that you yourself might have contact with. That would be fair, wouldn’t you agree?


Let’s start with a family that I am 100% positive that you yourself would have the facts on. The Pouw family. Your last name is “Pouw” isn’t it? Okay. Glad we got that straight.


Your husband is Anthony Pouw who is also part of the Sea Org in Los Angeles.

Anthony is the brother of Marion Pouw who currently works with Dave Miscavige at RTC and has worked there for the last 20 years.

I hope you are tracking with all of this because there will be a quiz at the end.

Marion and Anthony are allowed to speak to each other and you are allowed to speak each of them respectively.

Obviously, while your husband Anthony was on the RPF for 10 years, you were not speaking to him, but that was your and his decision. Of course that makes perfect sense and that has nothing to do with Scientology breaking up your family. He was doing a Scientology program that requires as part of it that he not live or communicate with you until he completed the program. No need for you to comment on this. I just want to make sure that we are straight on all of the family relationships here.


The part that does not make sense with your statement above is the rest of the Pouw family and YOUR current disconnection from them.


Anthony and Marion Pouw have a father (Tony Pouw) and a mother (Wilma Pouw) who love them very much, as well as a sister (Jennifer Pouw.) They at one time were also in the Sea Org many years ago.


My specific question for you is if Scientology does not break up families, then why is it that you, your husband and his sister Marion have not spoken to his parents or his sister in years and refuse to accept communications from them?

You realize that would appear to be disconnection of sorts and no longer speaking to them for decades at a time could be interpreted as no longer "supporting them."


Let’s not forget that Marion Pouw was also married years ago and when her husband chose to leave the Sea Org, she was no longer allowed to speak with him for any reason and has not spoken to him since the day he left.


So, what is the story there? It would be very hard to believe that you yourself are not aware that you have a set of parents and a sister in-law that for some reason you not spoken to in years.


I would be very interested to know what policy this IS part of, if not the disconnection policy. I am sure that the entire Pouw family would be very interested in your response.

We could arrange an interview with them, and have them tell their side of the story if you like. Maybe the disconnection letters from Anthony Pouw and Marion Pouw would shed some light on this subject.

You realize of course, that this appears suspect that you, as the person making the above statement, has herself disconnected from family members. This does not bode well for you Karin.


I am seriously thinking of devoting a letter to you on each of your “statements” that you make in your letter regarding the Cruise book.

You never know Karin, maybe you be the one getting disconnection letters from your husband and Marion after this.


Until next time…
BFG

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Post by no_8c_now » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:54 am

Hell, this "church" is incapable of telling anything but "accceptable" truths, which is just their way of telling lies. They are so tangled in the web of lies they have spouted over and over that anything they say just comes back to bite them right in the ass.

Thanks BfG for exposing another example of this. My god, how long do they think they can keep up this charade? And when will they learn, (rhetorical question, I know)? 50 years of Hubbard PR tech in action and they are worse off than ever and I don't see the bottom of this free fall anytime soon.

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Post by James » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:53 pm

What a strike - deeply appreciated !!

James
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Post by Sea Horse » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:10 pm

It seems to be a new PR tactic for the CofS to deny any disconnection policies. However, there are far too many people with printed "SP Declares" showing they were kicked out of the CofS for failing to disconnect from someone. I personally know of two printed SP Declares published within the last 60 days which stated this "crime" (non-disconnection when ordered).

They're such dweebs if they think they can lie themselves out of this hole they'd dug.
:roll:
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Post by Gumbythetruth » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:23 pm

BFG, Good rebuttal. Now how do we get this out to the general public as a line for line rebuttal?

Peace,Gumby

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Post by Sea Horse » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:48 pm

Gumbythetruth wrote:BFG, Good rebuttal. Now how do we get this out to the general public as a line for line rebuttal?
I would do a separate piece on each rebuttal item.

Take advice from public speakers and others who suggest you don't cover too much in a single "seminar" or speech.
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Post by Kilia » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:51 pm

Excellent post, BFG. :)

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Post by Bea Kiddo » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:35 pm

Well, since they seem to be claiming this, I decided to give it a whack. Why not?

I got declared SP in 04. My mother is in the Sea Org.

So I called her up.

Of course, she was not available. They took a message and I left my phone number and my name. The person who took the information seems to know who I am and seemed shocked that I would call.

Lets see what happens...

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Post by Sea Horse » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:22 pm

foolsgold wrote:Well, since they seem to be claiming this, I decided to give it a whack. Why not?
I got declared SP in 04. My mother is in the Sea Org.
So I called her up.
Of course, she was not available. They took a message and I left my phone number and my name. The person who took the information seems to know who I am and seemed shocked that I would call.
Lets see what happens...
What a brilliant idea. Have every "Declared SP" call their relatives in the Sea Org and see who (if any) calls back. Even try sending letters.

Then let the info to the media.

That would be a fabulous rebuttal to Karin Pouw's clap-trap (lies).
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Post by Ladybird » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:20 am

Great idea Sea Horse and Foolsgold!!!

I know every letter I ever sent to people who are now out was never received by them, nor were they returned to me. I had even asked for and received permission from IJC to send simple gifts, birthday and Christmas cards.

The addresses should all be listed in the back of any scientology book, along with phone #s, except for some of the secret Sea Org bases.

Here are a few addresses I remember:

Each separate ORG has it's own HCO, and all staff mail has to go through the main address for that ORG so HCO can open and inspect all the mail of all the staff.

Scientology "Big Blue" Residence Halls:
1404 N. Catalina Street, Hollywood CA 90027


Some of the other LA addresses are:
CLO WUS - 1308 L.Ron Hubbard Way, Hollywood, CA 90027.
AOLA - 1306 L. Ron Hubbard Way
ASHO - 13?? - L. Ron Hubbard Way

RPF members get their mail thorugh the CLO WUS as the RPF is hosted in Senior Qual on the Org board of the CLO WUS.

LA Org is further up, closest to Sunset in Big Blue on L. Ron Hubbard Way. These are not Sea Org staff but Class V Org staff, but they are located in the same "Big Blue" compound. You see the Div 6 entrance from the "LA Parking lot" (the huge parking lot out front of big Blue on Sunset) . The "Dianetics Foundation" has another street address on Sunset.

Additionally there is a "secret org", on Fountain Avenue. INCOMM is located on the bottom floor of big blue, across from the parking structure. It has a glass reception area with blacked out windows, and I'm not sure if there's even a street number posted. Per the street map it should be about 4835 Fountain Avenue, but I'm not sure of the exact number, I don't remember now what it is.

This is the headquarters where all the big computer data banks are kept that all Int Management and Flag Bureaux are dependent on; stats, personnel records, knowledge reports, evaluations - all their secret records. The INCOMM staff are considered Int staff and they have the highest security clearance and are considered at RTC level. There are probably only about 20 people in that org, per my estimate.

Does anybody else have addresses or phone #s for the other orgs?

Actually, they should all be listed in the back of any scientology book, along with phone #s, except for some of the secret Sea Org bases.

The official address of CSI was 6331 Hollywood Boulevard, Los Angeles. CSI also has offices at 19625 Highway 79, Gilman Hot Springs, California 92383

The official address of RTC was 1710 Ivar Avenue, Suite
1100, Los Angeles, California 90028

I suggest sending "nice" letters, so the cult has no reason to stop them or to cry "foul" or use them against the critics.

Ladybird
[i]"There is nothing as wild in the books of Man as will probably happen here on Earth...it will happen and be allowed to happen simply because all this is so incredible that nobody will even think of stopping it until it is far, far too late"~LRH[/i]

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Post by Sea Horse » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:41 am

Ladybird wrote:I suggest sending "nice" letters, so the cult has no reason to stop them or to cry "foul" or use them against the critics.
And include a self-addressed stamped envelope so no one can claim the org (or the individual) didn't have money for postage. There's no excuse NOT to reply when you include all the parts. Oh... don't forget a blank sheet of paper in case they can't get one of those, either.
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Post by Dr. Donna Shannon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:22 am

And, what about Tom Cruise's OWN family? Mary Lee South, his mother, is now living with TOM, not her own husband, Jack South. Does this have nothing to do with $cientology? I seriously doubt that! Perhaps Tom or Mary Lee could tell us? C'mon, Tom, the "PTS/SP" course and "Grade Zero" give you the ability to confront SPs and communicate with anyone- SO DO IT!
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just as fast as my feet can fly
Come away, come away if you're goin',
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Post by Braveheart's Girlfriend » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:42 am

BFG, your letter to Karin Pouw was beautifully direct and perfectly timed. There's NOTHING like well-organized Truth, as Scientology's ruling "class" is finding out. They've burned WAY too many bridges - yes they have - to cover themselves with brutal and smarmy lies anymore.
http://alley.ethercat.com/door/

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LadyBird! So glad to see you here!

Post by scout77 » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:26 am

Missed you and man it is good to see you posting. We need you.
Scout
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Post by Little Bear Victor » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:30 pm

Karin,

I happen to know that matters are actually even worse for you and the rest of the Pouw family than what BFG stated above.

In addition to what he said, the following update is in order:

Your husband Anthony Pouw is again on the PAC RPF, so you can't talk to him now either. You can send a written message to him, which he can respond to -- if his response passes the scrutiny of the RPF I/C. He cannot originate a new communication to you per LRH's RPF regulations.

Not mentioned by BFG, Samantha, Anthony's younger sister, is also on the PAC RPF. This means that Marion, their older sister, cannot talk to either of them, except with the same rules as you: By sending a message in writing, not making it too personal and only then they can answer, in writing, if the RPF I/C considers the answer appropriate.

Marion herself is no longer in RTC. She was busted out of there in 2006 to (what is left of) CMO Int by DM. This is despite having taken extensive action to disavow her relation to her ex-husband, previously in charge of all Scientology Marketing worldwide, and now a declared SP. These actions included holding closed-door meetings with everyone that worked under him to "expose" some of his "SP operations" and to make very clear she didn't know about them nor support him in any way and that she had fully and completely disconnected from him.

A very twisted piece of history on this now-shattered relationship is that it was DM himself who originally introduced Marion to her ex-husband!

Meanwhile back on the RPF: Samantha and Anthony can occasionally talk to each other if they by chance work on the same RPF project. Otherwise, they can't. Since Samantha is from Gold/Int and Anthony from PAC, she cannot tell him anything about what is going on at Int, including how Marion is or what she is doing -- in fact, Samantha most likely doesn't know it herself.

All personal communication is discouraged and considered out-ethics and off-purpose, cutting across getting through the RPF program (which takes anywhere from 2 to 10 years, around 6 on the average to get through -- for those who ever make it through, which is 1-2 out of 10).

People from Int are, while not really separated from, nonetheless treated as a different set of people on the RPF, mostly for "security" reasons -- that is, the RPFers from lower management echelons do their RPF auditing program in a separate space from the ex-Int RPFers.

Other strict rules against communication are in place: you cannot tell anyone, even if ex-Int, what has occurred on the base since they left. If they ask, you don't answer but report them to ethics.

It is a "given" that Samantha cannot communicate to her ex-husband who was offloaded from the Int base years ago.

Now, Karin, are you still saying that Scientology brings families together?

The only place you are going to be together, it seems, is in on the RPF. And you won't be able to talk to each other about what happened then either.

Welcome to your life.

Victor
Last edited by Little Bear Victor on Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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