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Roadrunner
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 735
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject:
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| Navy wrote: | I really have no idea. I can't find the original documents. What I COULD find is what was used as evidence in the court case. I found another document, but it is unreadable to me.
Peter Schilte |
Just a few posts back on this thread some person provided a link to scannings of the original Guardian Order.
There is also an easy findable article on Wikipedia linking to the scannings.
RR |
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Sponge
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 8442
Location: U.K.
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Peter Schilte
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 1729
Location: Vierlingsbeek (Netherlands)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:40 am Post subject:
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| Roadrunner wrote: | | Navy wrote: | I really have no idea. I can't find the original documents. What I COULD find is what was used as evidence in the court case. I found another document, but it is unreadable to me.
Peter Schilte |
Just a few posts back on this thread some person provided a link to scannings of the original Guardian Order.
There is also an easy findable article on Wikipedia linking to the scannings.
RR |
It is very hard to read because of the quality of the scan. As far as I can read, Operation (Program?) Snow White was a global operation with one goal: to remove all documents that were negative about OTC, LRH and the Apollo. In some countries through litigations, in other countries it isn't specified. The evidence presented in the court case leaves no doubt about which methods were used to reach their goals. Operation Snow White led to illegal operations, no matter what this document says.
In the Fair Game thread and this thread you you try to focus not on what happened, or still happens, but on the written word. Making it seem more important than what was done and still is done. But Operation Snow White led to breaking the law. Fair Game is still in practice. THAT is what is important.
Peter Schilte
_________________
"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM."
- L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.scamofscientology.nl |
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Roadrunner
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 735
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:48 am Post subject:
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| Navy wrote: | | Roadrunner wrote: | | Navy wrote: | I really have no idea. I can't find the original documents. What I COULD find is what was used as evidence in the court case. I found another document, but it is unreadable to me.
Peter Schilte |
Just a few posts back on this thread some person provided a link to scannings of the original Guardian Order.
There is also an easy findable article on Wikipedia linking to the scannings.
RR |
It is very hard to read because of the quality of the scan. As far as I can read, Operation (Program?) Snow White was a global operation with one goal: to remove all documents that were negative about OTC, LRH and the Apollo. In some countries through litigations, in other countries it isn't specified. The evidence presented in the court case leaves no doubt about which methods were used to reach their goals. Operation Snow White led to illegal operations, no matter what this document says.
In the Fair Game thread and this thread you you try to focus not on what happened, or still happens, but on the written word. Making it seem more important than what was done and still is done. But Operation Snow White led to breaking the law. Fair Game is still in practice. THAT is what is important.
Peter Schilte |
The situation remains that you let other people tell you what is true for you. You will never admit being in error about any of these matters, especially not towards me.
You also have not a clue how things are dealt with within the organization or how such 'Guardian Orders' work. They are like Mission Orders. Very specific rules exists for these of which you know nothing. You are just someone that surfs on the Internet and thinks he knows it all without having any personal experience of any kind with the organizational affairs. I call that arrogance.
| Quote: |
GUARDIAN ORDER
SECRET
GO 732 WW
Legal 20 April 1973
SNOW WHITE PROGRAM
Policy: Attack is neccessary to an effective defence.
Situation:
Countries are being denied to OTC, the “Apollo” and LRH.
Statistics:
A gradual reduction of available countries accurring since 1967. Trend DANGER.
Data:
General operating record since 1967, studied with many uncovered incidents without foundation in fact. Each of these has had in common false reports.
Recent exposure of official records have brought about the possession of data showing that England and the US have in the past spread false reports in several other countries which have caused trouble.
Why:
By spreading false reports a cumulative file can be built in their own and other countries which then tend to act on the file without the presence of the real scene data which is factually good but which is then ignored.
Secondary Why:
The tendency or habit of police and immigration agencies to act secretly on record data without further advice, thus making a hidden third party situation.
Ideal Scene:
All false and secret files of the nations of operating areas brought to view and legally expunged and OTC, “Apollo” and LRH free to frequent all western ports and nations without threat and all required ports open and free.
Handling:
Plan:
To engage in various litigation in all countries affected so as to expose to view all such derogatory and false reports, to engage in further litigation in the countries originating such reports, to exhaust resources in those countries and then finally to take the nation to the United Nations (that now being possible for an individual and a group) and to the European Commission on Human Rights, meanwhile uprooting and cancelling all such files and reports wherever found.
Caution:
The UN and the European Commission throw out the vast majority of petitions as inadministrable on exact and tiny legal and technical points so that to be successful the most careful handling must be done with regard to these points.
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Before you can adjudicate you need too be able to actually duplicate exact matters.
Regards,
RR |
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Tsar von Humbug
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 1523
Location: Hare Krishnas Moonies Heaven's Gate Scientology
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:57 am Post subject:
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RR, you are of course aware that 11 Scientology executives were imprisoned for their part in Operation Snow White, including Mary Sue Hubbard?
| Wikipedia wrote: |
Operation Snow White was the Church of Scientology's name for a project during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members; the single largest infiltration of the United States government in history with up to 5,000 covert agents. This was also the operation that exposed 'Operation Freakout', due to the fact that this was the case that brought the government into investigation on the Church.[1][2]
Under this program, Scientology operatives committed infiltration, wiretapping, and theft of documents in government offices, most notably those of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service. Eleven highly-placed Church executives, including Mary Sue Hubbard (wife of founder L. Ron Hubbard and second-in-command of the organization), pleaded guilty or were convicted in federal court of obstructing justice, burglary of government offices, and theft of documents and government property. The case was United States vs. Mary Sue Hubbard et al., 493 F. Supp. 209 (D.D.C. 1979).[3][4][5][6] |
_________________
Protest Flyer. Tax Flyer. Prof Touretzky's Site. London 3/15 |
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Peter Schilte
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 1729
Location: Vierlingsbeek (Netherlands)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:01 am Post subject:
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| Roadrunner wrote: | | Navy wrote: | | Roadrunner wrote: | | Navy wrote: | I really have no idea. I can't find the original documents. What I COULD find is what was used as evidence in the court case. I found another document, but it is unreadable to me.
Peter Schilte |
Just a few posts back on this thread some person provided a link to scannings of the original Guardian Order.
There is also an easy findable article on Wikipedia linking to the scannings.
RR |
It is very hard to read because of the quality of the scan. As far as I can read, Operation (Program?) Snow White was a global operation with one goal: to remove all documents that were negative about OTC, LRH and the Apollo. In some countries through litigations, in other countries it isn't specified. The evidence presented in the court case leaves no doubt about which methods were used to reach their goals. Operation Snow White led to illegal operations, no matter what this document says.
In the Fair Game thread and this thread you you try to focus not on what happened, or still happens, but on the written word. Making it seem more important than what was done and still is done. But Operation Snow White led to breaking the law. Fair Game is still in practice. THAT is what is important.
Peter Schilte |
| Roadrunner wrote: | The situation remains that you let other people tell you what is true for you. You will never admit being in error about any of these matters, especially not towards me.
You also have not a clue how things are dealt with within the organization or how such 'Guardian Orders' work. They are like Mission Orders. Very specific rules exists for these of which you know nothing. You are just someone that surfs on the Internet and thinks he knows it all without having any personal experience of any kind with the organizational affairs. I call that arrogance. |
Says you. You may be good with written words, but you seems to be blind to reality.
| Quote: |
GUARDIAN ORDER
SECRET
GO 732 WW
Legal 20 April 1973
SNOW WHITE PROGRAM
Policy: Attack is neccessary to an effective defence.
Situation:
Countries are being denied to OTC, the “Apollo” and LRH.
Statistics:
A gradual reduction of available countries accurring since 1967. Trend DANGER.
Data:
General operating record since 1967, studied with many uncovered incidents without foundation in fact. Each of these has had in common false reports.
Recent exposure of official records have brought about the possession of data showing that England and the US have in the past spread false reports in several other countries which have caused trouble.
Why:
By spreading false reports a cumulative file can be built in their own and other countries which then tend to act on the file without the presence of the real scene data which is factually good but which is then ignored.
Secondary Why:
The tendency or habit of police and immigration agencies to act secretly on record data without further advice, thus making a hidden third party situation.
Ideal Scene:
All false and secret files of the nations of operating areas brought to view and legally expunged and OTC, “Apollo” and LRH free to frequent all western ports and nations without threat and all required ports open and free.
Handling:
Plan:
To engage in various litigation in all countries affected so as to expose to view all such derogatory and false reports, to engage in further litigation in the countries originating such reports, to exhaust resources in those countries and then finally to take the nation to the United Nations (that now being possible for an individual and a group) and to the European Commission on Human Rights, meanwhile uprooting and cancelling all such files and reports wherever found.
Caution:
The UN and the European Commission throw out the vast majority of petitions as inadministrable on exact and tiny legal and technical points so that to be successful the most careful handling must be done with regard to these points.
|
Before you can adjudicate you need too be able to actually duplicate exact matters.
Regards,
RR |
But in the end there was this court case, leading to convictions. No matter what you quote.
Peter Schilte
_________________
"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM."
- L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.scamofscientology.nl |
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Roadrunner
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 735
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:26 am Post subject:
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| Tsar von Humbug wrote: | RR, you are of course aware that 11 Scientology executives were imprisoned for their part in Operation Snow White, including Mary Sue Hubbard?
| Wikipedia wrote: |
Operation Snow White was the Church of Scientology's name for a project during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members; the single largest infiltration of the United States government in history with up to 5,000 covert agents. This was also the operation that exposed 'Operation Freakout', due to the fact that this was the case that brought the government into investigation on the Church.[1][2]
Under this program, Scientology operatives committed infiltration, wiretapping, and theft of documents in government offices, most notably those of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service. Eleven highly-placed Church executives, including Mary Sue Hubbard (wife of founder L. Ron Hubbard and second-in-command of the organization), pleaded guilty or were convicted in federal court of obstructing justice, burglary of government offices, and theft of documents and government property. The case was United States vs. Mary Sue Hubbard et al., 493 F. Supp. 209 (D.D.C. 1979).[3][4][5][6] |
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And this got to do with the situation during the late 60's, what exactly?
The Wikipedia article is actually misleading. Who is writing on Wikipedia? Any fool can change and write anything on there. Grand reference source! I addressed it on my site (media page).
Perspective my friend.
RR |
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Tsar von Humbug
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 1523
Location: Hare Krishnas Moonies Heaven's Gate Scientology
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:40 am Post subject:
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| Roadrunner wrote: | | Tsar von Humbug wrote: | RR, you are of course aware that 11 Scientology executives were imprisoned for their part in Operation Snow White, including Mary Sue Hubbard?
| Wikipedia wrote: |
Operation Snow White was the Church of Scientology's name for a project during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members; the single largest infiltration of the United States government in history with up to 5,000 covert agents. This was also the operation that exposed 'Operation Freakout', due to the fact that this was the case that brought the government into investigation on the Church.[1][2]
Under this program, Scientology operatives committed infiltration, wiretapping, and theft of documents in government offices, most notably those of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service. Eleven highly-placed Church executives, including Mary Sue Hubbard (wife of founder L. Ron Hubbard and second-in-command of the organization), pleaded guilty or were convicted in federal court of obstructing justice, burglary of government offices, and theft of documents and government property. The case was United States vs. Mary Sue Hubbard et al., 493 F. Supp. 209 (D.D.C. 1979).[3][4][5][6] |
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And this got to do with the situation during the late 60's, what exactly?
The Wikipedia article is actually misleading. Who is writing on Wikipedia? Any fool can change and write anything on there. Grand reference source! I addressed it on my site (media page).
Perspective my friend.
RR |
Wikipedia references [1][2][3][4][5][6] appear in the quotation above, viz:
[1] a b Ortega, Tony. "Double Crossed", Phoenix New Times, New Times Media, 1999-12-23. Retrieved on 2006-06-12.
[2] Mystery of the Vanished Ruler. TIME (1983-01-31). Retrieved on 2007-08-10.
[3] http://www.antisectes.net/usa-vs-msh-appeal-memorandum.htm
[4] http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/mary-sue-hubbard-et-al-sentencing-memorandum.htm
[5] http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/timeline.html
[6] http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/U.S._v._Hubbard_650_F.2d_293_%281981%29
If you check the references, you will find this damning judgement:
| UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA wrote: |
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA )
) v. Criminal Case No. 78-401 )
MARY SUE HUBBARD, et al. )
SENTENCING MEMORANDUM OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
The United States initiated the investigation which resulted In the instant ndictment in view of the brazen, systematic and persistent burglaries of United States Govern- ment offices in Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles, California, over an extended period of at least some two years. Additionally, the United States was confronted with the pervasive conduct of the defendants in this case in thwarting a federal Grand Jury investigation by harboring a fugitive, in effect force- fully kidnapping a witness who had decided to surrender to the federal authorities, submitting false evidence to the Grand Jury, destroying other evidence which might have been of valuable aid to its investigation, preparing a cover-up story, and encouraging and drilling a crucial witness to give false testimony under oath to that Grand Jury. Such . outrageous conduct, it was felt, struck at the very heart of our judicial system -- a system which has often been, at crucial times in our history, the savior of our institutions. We considered that in view of the widespread and long drawn out nature of these offenses, as well as their heinousness, we would have been derelict in our duty to enforce the laws if we had failed to bring the charges in the instant indict- ment. Moreover, a review of the documents seized in the two Los Angeles, California, searches, which have since been unsealed by this Court, show the incredible and sweeping nature of the criminal conduct of the defendants and of the organizaion which they led. These crimes include the infiltration and theft of documents from a number of promi-nent private national and world organizations, law firms and newspapers; the execution of smear campaigns and baseless law suits to destroy private individuals who had attempted to exercise their First Amendraent rights to freedom of expression; the framing of private citizens who had been critical of Scientology, including the forging of documents which led to the indictment of at least one innocent person; violation of the civil rights of prominent private figures and public officials. Tbese are but a few of the criminal acts not covered in the "uncontested" stipulation of evidence which the United States believes this Court must consider in imposing an appropriate sentence in the instant case. These other crimes are disucssed at length in section V of the instant memorandum. |
Proof positive that no matter what Scientology policy was in the 60s, Fair Game was very much at the heart of Scientology operations at the most senior levels in the 70s.
_________________
Protest Flyer. Tax Flyer. Prof Touretzky's Site. London 3/15 |
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Tsar von Humbug
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 1523
Location: Hare Krishnas Moonies Heaven's Gate Scientology
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | | We know that you rely on stories from people and waht others tell you. You don't get perspective that way though. |
I'm truly baffled Road Runner. It seems that you won't accept any evidence except what Scientology provides. It seems to me it's you that needs some perspective.
If you doubt this is the true text of the court report, I'd suggest you get the actual court report, and check it yourself that this text is correct. If it's not as appears above, I'll eat my hat.
_________________
Protest Flyer. Tax Flyer. Prof Touretzky's Site. London 3/15 |
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Roadrunner
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 735
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject:
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I wrote about Wikipedia (media page). Wikipedia is grand!
| Quote: | If you check the references, you will find this damning judgement:
| UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA wrote: |
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA )
) v. Criminal Case No. 78-401 )
MARY SUE HUBBARD, et al. )
SENTENCING MEMORANDUM OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
The United States initiated the investigation which resulted In the instant ndictment in view of the brazen, systematic and persistent burglaries of United States Govern- ment offices in Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles, California, over an extended period of at least some two years. Additionally, the United States was confronted with the pervasive conduct of the defendants in this case in thwarting a federal Grand Jury investigation by harboring a fugitive, in effect force- fully kidnapping a witness who had decided to surrender to the federal authorities, submitting false evidence to the Grand Jury, destroying other evidence which might have been of valuable aid to its investigation, preparing a cover-up story, and encouraging and drilling a crucial witness to give false testimony under oath to that Grand Jury. Such . outrageous conduct, it was felt, struck at the very heart of our judicial system -- a system which has often been, at crucial times in our history, the savior of our institutions. We considered that in view of the widespread and long drawn out nature of these offenses, as well as their heinousness, we would have been derelict in our duty to enforce the laws if we had failed to bring the charges in the instant indict- ment. Moreover, a review of the documents seized in the two Los Angeles, California, searches, which have since been unsealed by this Court, show the incredible and sweeping nature of the criminal conduct of the defendants and of the organizaion which they led. These crimes include the infiltration and theft of documents from a number of promi-nent private national and world organizations, law firms and newspapers; the execution of smear campaigns and baseless law suits to destroy private individuals who had attempted to exercise their First Amendraent rights to freedom of expression; the framing of private citizens who had been critical of Scientology, including the forging of documents which led to the indictment of at least one innocent person; violation of the civil rights of prominent private figures and public officials. Tbese are but a few of the criminal acts not covered in the "uncontested" stipulation of evidence which the United States believes this Court must consider in imposing an appropriate sentence in the instant case. These other crimes are disucssed at length in section V of the instant memorandum. |
Proof positive that no matter what Scientology policy was in the 60s, Fair Game was very much at the heart of Scientology operations at the most senior levels in the 70s. |
You don't perfom research. You rely on what some people tell you or say/claim and you simply adopt. Are also putting the blame of the Inquistion on Jesus? Perspective. You don't take heed!
Regards,
RR |
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Roadrunner
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 735
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject:
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| Tsar von Humbug wrote: | | Quote: | | We know that you rely on stories from people and waht others tell you. You don't get perspective that way though. |
I'm truly baffled Road Runner. It seems that you won't accept any evidence except what Scientology provides. It seems to me it's you that needs some perspective.
If you doubt this is the true text of the court report, I'd suggest you get the actual court report, and check it yourself that this text is correct. If it's not as appears above, I'll eat my hat. |
Indeed baffling, but the problem is that you continue to rely entirely on outside accounts instead of investigating the scene from the inside by yourself.
RR |
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Tsar von Humbug
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 1523
Location: Hare Krishnas Moonies Heaven's Gate Scientology
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject:
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| Roadrunner wrote: | | Tsar von Humbug wrote: | | Quote: | | We know that you rely on stories from people and waht others tell you. You don't get perspective that way though. |
I'm truly baffled Road Runner. It seems that you won't accept any evidence except what Scientology provides. It seems to me it's you that needs some perspective.
If you doubt this is the true text of the court report, I'd suggest you get the actual court report, and check it yourself that this text is correct. If it's not as appears above, I'll eat my hat. |
Indeed baffling, but the problem is that you continue to rely entirely on outside accounts instead of investigating the scene from the inside by yourself.
RR |
You mean I don't swallow the Scientology hook, line and sinker?
Well no. Rather than the Scientology account of these events, I'd rather trust the United States Court for the District of Columbia.
_________________
Protest Flyer. Tax Flyer. Prof Touretzky's Site. London 3/15 |
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StevenSlaughter
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 470
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject:
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You have to believe hard to be the head lying, conning scumbag on the internet!
_________________
Never believe anything until it has been denied by a $cientologist. |
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Plups
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 318
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Peter Schilte
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 1729
Location: Vierlingsbeek (Netherlands)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject:
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| Roadrunner wrote: | | Navy wrote: | | Roadrunner wrote: | | Navy wrote: | I really have no idea. I can't find the original documents. What I COULD find is what was used as evidence in the court case. I found another document, but it is unreadable to me.
Peter Schilte |
Just a few posts back on this thread some person provided a link to scannings of the original Guardian Order.
There is also an easy findable article on Wikipedia linking to the scannings.
RR |
It is very hard to read because of the quality of the scan. As far as I can read, Operation (Program?) Snow White was a global operation with one goal: to remove all documents that were negative about OTC, LRH and the Apollo. In some countries through litigations, in other countries it isn't specified. The evidence presented in the court case leaves no doubt about which methods were used to reach their goals. Operation Snow White led to illegal operations, no matter what this document says.
In the Fair Game thread and this thread you you try to focus not on what happened, or still happens, but on the written word. Making it seem more important than what was done and still is done. But Operation Snow White led to breaking the law. Fair Game is still in practice. THAT is what is important.
Peter Schilte |
The situation remains that you let other people tell you what is true for you. You will never admit being in error about any of these matters, especially not towards me.
You also have not a clue how things are dealt with within the organization or how such 'Guardian Orders' work. They are like Mission Orders. Very specific rules exists for these of which you know nothing. You are just someone that surfs on the Internet and thinks he knows it all without having any personal experience of any kind with the organizational affairs. I call that arrogance.
| Quote: |
GUARDIAN ORDER
SECRET
GO 732 WW
Legal 20 April 1973
SNOW WHITE PROGRAM
Policy: Attack is neccessary to an effective defence.
Situation:
Countries are being denied to OTC, the “Apollo” and LRH.
Statistics:
A gradual reduction of available countries accurring since 1967. Trend DANGER.
Data:
General operating record since 1967, studied with many uncovered incidents without foundation in fact. Each of these has had in common false reports.
Recent exposure of official records have brought about the possession of data showing that England and the US have in the past spread false reports in several other countries which have caused trouble.
Why:
By spreading false reports a cumulative file can be built in their own and other countries which then tend to act on the file without the presence of the real scene data which is factually good but which is then ignored.
Secondary Why:
The tendency or habit of police and immigration agencies to act secretly on record data without further advice, thus making a hidden third party situation.
Ideal Scene:
All false and secret files of the nations of operating areas brought to view and legally expunged and OTC, “Apollo” and LRH free to frequent all western ports and nations without threat and all required ports open and free.
Handling:
Plan:
To engage in various litigation in all countries affected so as to expose to view all such derogatory and false reports, to engage in further litigation in the countries originating such reports, to exhaust resources in those countries and then finally to take the nation to the United Nations (that now being possible for an individual and a group) and to the European Commission on Human Rights, meanwhile uprooting and cancelling all such files and reports wherever found.
Caution:
The UN and the European Commission throw out the vast majority of petitions as inadministrable on exact and tiny legal and technical points so that to be successful the most careful handling must be done with regard to these points.
|
Before you can adjudicate you need too be able to actually duplicate exact matters.
Regards,
RR |
Nevertheless, the CULT infiltrated government organizations and broke the law, which led to convictions. You can go on and on and on and on with your obsessions: It doesn't change a thing. Or does it?
Peter Schilte
_________________
"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM."
- L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.scamofscientology.nl |
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