After LRH died in 1986, there was an event held at the Shrine Auditorium where this fact was announced by David Miscavige. However, the way that this was presented was as follows. Here are Miscavige’s own words about Hubbard’s death, video links included:

“He has now moved on to his next OT, level of OT research. This level is beyond anything any one of us ever imagined. This level is in fact done in an exterior state, meaning that it is done completely exterior from the body. At this level of OT, the body is nothing more than an impediment and encumbrance to any further gain as an OT. Thus at 2000 hours, Friday the 24th of January, AD 36, L. Ron Hubbard discarded the body he had used in this lifetime for 74 years, 10 months and 11 days. The body he had used to facilitate his existence, in this MEST universe had ceased to be useful and in fact had become an impediment to the work he now must do outside of its confines. He felt it was important as Scientologists that you were the first to become aware of this fact. I can understand that many of you are probably feeling the effects of a Secondary, however it is important that you can put this in the proper perspective. LRH defines a body in the Tech dictionary as, ‘An identifying form or a non identifying form, to facilitate the control of, the communication of and width, and the havingness of the thetan in his existence in the MEST universe. The body is a physical object. It is not the being himself.’ The being we knew as L. Ron Hubbard still exists, however the body he had could no longer serve his purposes. His decision was one made at complete cause by L. Ron Hubbard.” (In other words, suicide?)

David Miscavige (at the announcement of L. Ron Hubbard’s death)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPeTvghhd_M


Later in the evening Loyal Officer Pat Broeker took to the stage to announce some other things to the Scientologist public including the following:

“We also by the way have the OT Level that is going to be done immediately after every thetan discards his or her body. He (LRH) wrote that up before he went.” (Audience claps). “Now don’t take that as an invitation (laughs) because you don’t get it until you’re through with the OT level before it. (audience laughs) But know that when it’s time the Tech is there so you’re not left with what do I do now or even having to figure it out for yourself, it’s there. That will be written up right away. We have that umm, word for word, and it’ll be archived and made safe, and it will be eventually available at Flag and other AOs and people will be allowed to come into AOLA before they discard it (members of audience laugh) read the materials, check out on them, be word cleared, demo (laughs) so ya know it.”

Pat Broeker (at the announcement of L. Ron Hubbard’s death)
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?do ... 7&hl=en-AU

In other words, there is or will be an OT level that will require a person to “discard” their body in order for them to do the level.

Amirite? In the real world we call this committing suicide folks.

The body will be an impediment and thus you will have to “drop the body” and do the level exterior.

Pat Broeker even said we would be able to go into Flag or an AO to do this.

In my opinion, this completely looks like the road to OT leads to suicide.

This is another reason why the upper OT levels will never be released. How bad would it look for a “religion” or “Church” to have levels that require you to discard your body before you can move further on your path to enlightenment?

BTs2Free

It didn't work out too well for Bo and Peep or the shoe company as I recall.

Back in the 1950's LRH gave a lecture on "Geriatric Dianetics" where Dianetics would supposedly extend body life. Longer body life is commonly used as a "button" to sell Scientology services. When my reg or FSM has brought it up, I always mentioned how Ron didn't really live that long. That always got an interesting reaction.

So the Church is going to evolve into Logans Run and Carousel? I think it is more likely that they just made all this stuff up to cover up Ron's murder.

Thank you for posting this BTs2Free!!


Funny, and SM was arguing with Ladybird in another thread about the meaning of EOC!

Interesting thoughts, here!

I am of the mind that all the grandstanding during the announcement of Hubbard's death was merely to control the adherents. Anything would be said to mollify and manipulate them. To keep them.

Regarding the statement by Pat that “We also by the way have the OT Level that is going to be done immediately after every thetan discards his or her body. He (LRH) wrote that up before he went." -- Well, the fact that most of the adherents of scientology who saw this presentation appear have forgotten all about those promises is fascinating.

Slightly off topic -- I've been looking for (but have not been able to find) any studies of the percentage of suicides in scientologists and ex-scientologists compared to the general population.

If anyone has a link to something like that, please post it.

I'm thinking it may be at least slightly higher than the general population's suicide rate. But I could be wrong...

Another Surfer

[Extract from "Information Disease: Have Cults created a New Mental
Illness?" by Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman. Science Digest January 1982
pp86-92]


"A very effective thought control technique could also be worked out from
Scientology, which could be used to make individuals into willing slaves."
-L Ron Hubbard


[description of the authors' research into the long term effects of
involvement with various cults]


Two groups in particular showed signs of inflicting the most
severe physical, mental and emotional harm on their members: the Hare
Krishna and the Church of Scientology. Among all groups, Krishna and
Scientology tied with the Unification Church in reports of physical
deprivation. Their members reported getting the least sleep per night and
having the most deficient daily diet.
...
The rituals of the Church of Scientology bear little resemblance
to those of any other cult. With its extensive program of "training
regimens" and expensive "auditing" counseling, Scientology operates
successfully as both religion and mass-marketed therapy. According to
those who responded to our survey, however, Scientology's may be the most
debilitating set of rituals of any cult in America. Onetime Scientologists
who answered our questionnaire reported that it took them, on the average,
more than two years (26 months) before they felt fully rehabilitated- more
than *twice* the time of those from other major cults [Hare Krishna: 11.1
months, Divine Light Mission: 12.3 months].


Moreover, former Scientologists surpassed all others in reported
incidents of physical punishment while in the group (35 percent) and, upon
departure, they claimed the highest rates of sexual dysfunction (22
percent), violent outbursts (28 percent) [average is 14 percent],
hallucinations and delusions (28 percent) [average is also 14 percent] and
suicidal or self-destructive tendencies (44 percent) [average is 21%]. On
average, former Scientologists surveyed reported more than *twice* the
combined negative effects of all the other cult groups.


Ironically, although claiming the most severe long-term effects,
former Scientologists surveyed reported the *lowest* total of hours
per week spent in ritual and indoctrination. This apparent discrepancy
seems to support opinions we have expressed earlier that, in combination,
Scientology's training regimens and "auditing" counseling sessions
(conducted on an E-meter, a kind of crude lie detector) may have an
intensifying and compounding effect on the nervous system that goes beyond
that of simpler cult rituals. And that, *hour for hour, Scientology's
techniques may be more than twice as damaging as those of any other major
cult in America!* In our view, this could be a vital direction for further
research by scientists working in the field of neurophysiology.


"The overall impact? Devastating!" wrote one ex-member. "I still
tend to view the world in Scientological terms: 'Truth is only an
illusion.' 'People are robots.' 'People are basically insane and dangerous.'"
Another was even more bitter: "The only thing I got out of this scam was
deep suicidal depression coinciding with the fear of death within five
years after separation. We were told that ninety percent of all 'refund
cases' eventually commit suicide."

Thanks John for posting this. I remember I wrote about this once. Cant remember at all where and when (must be the age ) but I did point out about the fact of 'dropping the body' and the upper OT levels (after OT VIII) which invite to suicide.

When I was 'in' I actually didnt see it that way at all. wow. Actually, I just didnt see. Period. Amazing.

Unless you have a terminal illness you dont know when you will 'drop your body'. So, what does that mean in plain english? Come on to Flag and lets help you commit suicide! gosh, I get goosebump.

I know this thread will probably get buried due to the deserved attention of the Jason Beghe interview, which of course I don't want to take away from.

However, I do feel that this information is very important to REMIND Scientologists of, who have probably long forgotten about it.

Remember, LRH causatively "dropped his body" per all Co$ PR statements about the circumstances surrounding his death.

He dropped his body, because the body became an "impediment" to his further OT progress.

To "causatively" drop one's body in layman's terms would be to commit suicide, unless you're a Scientologist where you would believe that the body is just mud = a body and nothing else. So of course dropping it wouldn't be harmful because you can just go off and "causatively" get another one.

All OTs will eventually get to a level where they too will have to "drop their bodies" in order to progress further into the upper bands of OT. Just like LRH did right?

The Co$ presented at the announcement of LRH's death that this level actually existed, and just needed to be compiled and presented so that you could go into your Flag or AO and prepare for OT Level "body drop" and get going with it.

Now my question is this: Is this another reason why there are so many delays on getting the REST of the Bridge released? Is this one of the main reasons why David Miscavige is stalling and putting stop signs on the Bridge because of the MAJOR PR disaster surrounding the death of Hubbard and the lies told to the public to "keep them in"? Hell, David Miscavige really has no one else to pin the blame on because he said it HIMSELF at that event!

Let's just say that this level does get released someday (which it won't) and people are going into Flag or AO to learn the new OT Level that one has to do without a body. How is this going to look for Scientology? Do they think that people will just go lay in their beds and not wake up because they left the building to do OT Body Drop? This is absolutely LUDACRIS and INSANE!

IMO, these videos of the LRH death announcement and "what this means to you as a Scientologist" are the most damaging to the Co$ as they PROVE right there that they are pushing a complete brainwashing, DANGEROUS scam - RIGHT IN YOUR FACE.

Whoever has the capabilities of copying these videos, please do, so that if they're ever yanked they can be reposted.

If one doubts the existence of R245 or EoC (end of cycle) just watch these clips and you can see that the idea is not foreign to Scientology. In fact, it's the highest level you can achieve!

My mom had a friend back in the early 80's named Roxanne Friend. Roxanne died of cancer and you can see some of her story here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6llhoWSGS4

Another thing you should know about Roxanne is that she had been petitioning Senior C/S Int, Ray Mithoff to be able to just "drop her body" so she could leave and go get a new one. Her petition was denied of course due to PR reasons, but she was left in a state of dying and thinking that Scientology was not helping her. For her, the idea of "dropping her body" was not strange because Scientology taught her about what the body really is.

RIP Roxanne Friend

Peace,
BTs2Free

BTs2Free,
The video of your Moms friend reminded me of my friend Katie DeCosin.
She was told that scientology could cure her breast cancer.
"Auditing" and the "Purif" didn't work.
Katie died at the age of 48.

This leaves me feeling very chilled and horrified. SO glad to be forever OUT of that sick evil cult!!

>snipped only for brevity's sake<

Thank you, Ladybird -- this is exactly what I was looking for!

Very interesting reading. And chilling. Especially the "hour to hour" comparison. I think it reflects the effectiveness of Hubbard's brainwashing techiques (holding the cans, forcing your emotions -- your natural reactions as a human, simply being -- out of your mind to make the needle "float") and the other techniques of KSW and Knowledge Reports and "Ethics" (oy) -- all the built-in doctrine that further promotes the cage in which a scientology adherent's mind is held.

I hope people take notice of this study and put it to good use. Perhaps sending it to political representatives, government groups, the media, etc. would help them understand what scientology really is. Especially at this moment, when even John Q. Public is beginning to think that scientology might be worse than he thought.

To BTS2Free: You've made an important post that deserves as much consideration as Jason's "coming out."

Hubbard seems to have preached disrespect for the physical body; I believe that is because what Hubbard wanted was total commitment from his followers. He also preached that sex was invented by psychiatrists (if what I have read is true) and that infants, toddlers, children -- that we are BORN as adults.

Oh, and so many other inhuman things...

If one became distracted by one's physical health or one's family or love or, well, anything "off purpose" of scientology, the flow of the almighty dollar, peso, ruble, pound, lira (euros now) and all the rest might slow.

But I digress. It's clear (haha) that the whole thing about another level for preparing one for "dropping" one's body (or after?) was a crock. It's been, what, twenty years since ol' man Hubbard left this cupboard and we've not seen this "tech."

Another Surfer

Juan,

That is pretty funny as I never looked at it that way but makes it a complete Waco, Kool-Aid cult scheme.

I also noticed in that video you linked to, Pat Bunker said the only tech change going to be made is one little piece, yet somehow the whole bridge has changed since.

So maybe DM has also changed that level now that his Super Power is coming out and people will be able to do it inside their body. But I guess we won't see since they can't release any new tech only redo shit to make you pay for the same thing twice.

Gracias,
Enrico

This is scary stuff. How do present day Scientologists ( the higher up ones), answer this? Do they assume David M was speaking metaphorically about LRH? Considering some of the history behind certain "suicide" cults it is horrifying to read things like this.

The audience laughed four times during Broeker's spiel.

That's an indication that he was being deadly serious, right?

SuzanneMarie:



I remember that event and what was said, and so does SuzanneMarie.

Those scientolgists are giddy with delight that they too would be able to join ron in the stars and go clear other planets after dropping their current bodies.

It's quite sad actually. When it falls there will be scientologists who will have a hard time coping with the realization that they had wasted all those years on a con.