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no_8c_now
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 1183
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 Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject:
Water4gas Scam?
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Ran across this site water4gas.com making some incredible MPG improvement claims just by hooking up what amounts to a mason jar with tubes and some leftover e-meter parts. You gotta read this thing for yourself to get the full WTF impact.
The guy behind this is Ozzie Freedom (hmmm). Well Ozzie believes in full disclosure so he has posted his resume on on one of his many websites here,
http://www.sanecomputers.com/articles/resume/eyal.htm
Just looking at the names of the companies he has been associated with should throw enough red flags up, but he also has scanned his IAS Sponser award and his real name is Eyal Siman-Tov, which comes up as a past service completion on
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/e/eyal-siman-tov.html
In light of today's backlash against Scientology, I wonder if he really wants this association so broadly out there. In any case it should be, because if this guy is ripping people off with his "miracle" technology, it should be known where the roots of his ethics is grounded in.
Really entertaining reading here. It follows the "make it seem really important by putting it all on one long web page" school of free web page designs. This one even has the 'critical/scam' websites that turn out to be more advertising for his product. (who is Garko?)
The old adage if it sounds too good to be true... should have added, "Look for the Scientologist behind the curtain." |
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Sea Horse
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 1965
Location: Clearwater Florida USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Water4gas Scam?
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GARKO = Gary Konigsberg
| no_8c_now wrote: | | Who is Garko? |
I don't see where GARKO is mentioned on the website, but GARKO has been used as an alias for Scientologist Gary Konigsberg for years.
gary@failsafemarketing.com, sales@prestigesalesleads.com, ceo@prestigesalesleads.com, gary@hollywoodhouseparty.com, garko@myfastmail.com
1514 N Hoover Street, LA CA 90027 213-408-0143
2004 he wrote: Self Employed with my own corporation selling sales leads, have my own rock and roll band and a new CD, am very active in field activities.. attend CEC weekly representing the TWTH Middle East group for which I hold several posts as a volunteer, have toured 30 people through Hubbard College and ABLE in the last month by holding biz networking meetings for entrepreneurs in these locations and am forming a softball team for the TWTH Outdoors Club amongst other things.
http://responsive-mlm-leads.com/
"Responsive MLM Leads is owned and operated by Gary Konigsberg of Los Angeles, known to his friends as GARKO"
4821 Lankershim Blvd F164 North Hollywood CA 91601 1-800-790-4529
garko@usafastway.com
His political blog: http://itsmynet.info/GARKO.blog
_________________
We are the architects of our own lives. Design and build the life you want. |
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J. Swift
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 8893
Location: 100 Swift Street
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject:
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Scientologist Ozzie Freedom offers a big pitch for this miraculous "Suppressed Tech of Water Cars" but then is careful to declaim it all so that he does not wind up in a jail cell:
| Quote: | IMPORTANT NOTE: We don't have the funds to prove the validity of each plan. We have NOT written them. Yet we feel that it is important to keep suppressed technologies alive, so even if you don't find the time, space or skills to build one of these water cars yourself, please get them free with your order and give/sell them to everybody who may be interested. Thanks!
~Ozzie Freedom |
This nonsense looks like another whacky, scheming Scientologist "Blue Laundry Ball" type of fraud in the making. Read about ATG's special "IE Water" fraud:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/ATG/#ie
The Blue Laundry Ball was a Scientologist-orchestrated fraud. There were several Scientologists in on this 1990's scam. They claimed that the miracle "Blue Laundry Ball" contained special "IE Water" that reduced, or completely eliminated, the need for laundry detergent. After many criminal actions by Attorneys' General here in the States, Scientologist Erwin Annau was declared an SP and thrown out of the Cult for causing a PR Flap over this fraud. The various Scientology companies paid fines and plead to various charges.
Scientology would like the "Blue Laundry Ball" story to disappear along with the Reed Slatkin Gigantic Fraud Case, and so this is why these stories and others need to be periodically revisited to remind the public of what some Scientologists will do to pay for their Bridge and their IAS social status in the Lunatic Hubbardian Cult.
*****
The following is an excerpt of the minutes of a 1997 meeting in which dueling Scientologists decide to throw Erwin Annau under the bus in the Blue Laundry Ball scandal. This was a fraudulent product that made a few Scientologists a lot of money before they were prosecuted for fraud by the authorities. They decided to sacrifice Erwin and his wife for the greatest good across all dynamics. The minutes are humorous on many levels, but
particularly in the way they show Scientologists use language in a business setting, in this case to "handle" Erwin Annau. In the minutes, we see how Erwin became quite distressed as he realized that he was being made the fall guy for the entire group:
ref:http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/ATG/tradenet-board-meeting.txt
| Quote: | ...(Lynn) Yeah, here's what on the table. We have a situation here that you
know - you guys know something about. There's been a considerable amount of noise in the field related to TradeNet but specifically related to you, Erwin, that has resulted in ATG giving us an ultimatum that in order for them to continue the relationship with us, I assume that would be barring any violation of any legal agreements, that you need to go off the Lines. You've heard about this.
(Erwin) Why is the noise? Give me any reason for it.
(Lynn) Well, I, I can tell you the sources. Let me just lay the whole
thing on the table and then we can dive into it. I don't know. Well, you'd
have to talk to John Collins about that specifically. I also have some
other reports. First of all, it started with a lot of complaints to
them - Top Marketing, from Top Marketing, complaints of gouging,
complaints on printing materials that were - created legal liabilities and
possibilities for prosecution. OK?
(Erwin) That was not - nothing that I signed that was like that. And
already found this one thing that John Collins held under my nose that was
OK'd by David Can, so...
(Lynn) Well, whatever the reason...
(Erwin) ...there was no substantiation - mediation - I don't want to take
it further with no substantiation on that. I would request that after this
meeting, Ill get the specifics.
(Lynn) Well, what would be real enlightening for you is to call John
Collins and ask him why he wants you out of here and off the lines and
hell probably tell you very directly. I don't want to beat around the bush
on this, I just want to lay the issues out. This, isn't a legal hearing,
I think we have some major things to confront here. Number One is
ATG wants you out and off the lines, for their reasons, and from
what I'm told it's the amount of heat, noise and distraction,
accusations, upset, turmoil, complaints that they've gotten
on their lines because of Top Marketing and I think
in some cases on you specifically. OK, that's one
issue we have on the table.
It's a similar viewpoint held by the Executive Distributor Council and
talks that I've had with them and things that they've told me, they feel
that there's a total lack of credibility in you and they basically, uh,
want you off the lines.
(Erwrin) OK, may I tell you, since we're on tape here, my opinion on this,
is the EDC wants TradeNet to go on and basically to do is to shoot the one
guy who built it up. Xxx. OK. That was the whole strategy there and John
Collins just picked it up. Also you must know that I had put my
credibility on the line in February in order to save the ship, and since
the company did not perform, as it was promised many, many times, uh, as
you know Simon Bolivar policy - that the troops turn against the leader
because the leader did not perform, which like I was suddenly snapped
terminals with the organization. I'm the one who put the organization
there, nobody else did, as witnessed two weeks after I went on the road
the stats went down, and not recovered, and I however put my credibility
on the line, Yes, you're gonna get the computer done" and Yes, we're going
to get the organization done" and "Yes, we're going to get shipping done",
and none of that has transpired in six months, and that's why the group is
turning against me.
(Lynn) OK. So the third area here as an example is the weekend that I
spent in Arkansas with a major leader there Julia Thier and her, and her,
and her key guys. They would vote along with the EDC and ATG to have you
off the lines for various reasons and reports, they don't want you to be
there. So what we have here is a major, major PR sit. And we have a
major threat to our survival because of your out-PR with ATG. Now we can
say a lot of things the reasons for it and we can argue about it until the
cows come home, early in the morning, but I don't think - I think the
major point wete got to look at is there is a major out-PR situation with
you regarding these entities, which creates a liability for this company,
so that's - that's one major area. That exists. For whatever reasons, we
can argue about it, should it be, shouldn't it be, whatever, but it is
real and it does exist and this company and the Board here has to deal
with it. That's one area. Now the other area which I think is of key
importance as well is - and I think it affects you guys very much
personally as well - and that is the situation with your being here on a
Visa and having these attacks by Attorneys Generals' Office and so on, I
think that it's a dang-- quite a dangerous situation for you guys
personally. You know we're going through this scrutiny phase when
Attorneys Generals investigate this company very thoroughly....
.
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masonicpyramid.com
contact: scienowriter@gmail.com |
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J. Swift
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 8893
Location: 100 Swift Street
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject:
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Continued:
| Quote: | (Erwin) Right.
(Lynn) Now you may or may not know this but I was told by Edith that we
hired a local Florida attorney to meet with - a lawyer from the Tampa
Attorney General's Office regarding the subpoena TradeNet got, they sit
down at lunch and the first thing out of the State Attorney's mouth
is,'Oh, yeah, Erwin Annau, isn't he the guy that was involved in some kind
of investigation in that MLM of California, that metals company?" Boom.
Out on the table, by the Attorney General in Florida, first origination.
That's not good.
(Erwin) No.
(Lynn) It's not good for this company, and I think with your personal
situation given your Visa it's actually quite dangerous for you. That's
the second major area, they may be more. Now the third, which I have some
concern over as we're all, um - well, we're, and this could go on tape,
we're all members of the same Church and you know the laws and regulations
with our Church...
(Erwin) Umhmm.
[MD: "Umhmm" is right! Speak up, boys!]
(Lynn)...so if any strenuous or, or - any kind of activity that you're
involved with affects us directly and our eligibility to participate in
our Church's counseling activities, spiritual activities, and we're
connected with you and that we're members of the Board and co-partners.
That doesn't going to interfere actually in the business aspect but there
is - we are related in some ways. So I think these are the things that are
on my mind as pretty major areas.
(Erwin) Right. So again, they're turning against me, in my opinion, and
like taking me off the lines is not going to remedy the situation, uh,
and, uh, I would love to have this statement to be the first one that I
predicted, that was wrong. I would love to be wrong. I was right several
times in the last two months about things that I said and if I say it
right now, that the last few active leaders that are backing the
organization, you will - you have you have not seen rock bottom. The
moment that you announce that I'm off the Line, at that moment in time you
will lose even more people and that's just going to happen, I just wanted
to have it on tape so that you know that, that I said it and that you're
not surprised that that happens. And I would love to be wrong, I would
wish and pray and hope that it does not happen.
(Lynn) Alright. So that's on that table. I think that that's the subject
of this meeting and what we're got to get down to. That's my concern, from
the CEO hat.
(Erwin) Well, there's a lot of other subjects here. Credit cards. Where
are they? Are we going to accept credit cards?
(Lynn) We're working on it.... |
ref: Op Cit.
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contact: scienowriter@gmail.com
Last edited by J. Swift on Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ZenuEtrawl
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 636
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject:
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| J. Swift wrote: |
This nonsense looks like another whacky, scheming Scientologist "Blue Laundry Ball" type of fraud in the making. |
Many scientologists have been reeled in by various pseudoscientific scams, too. Cultists are the perfect public for something like that, they've already shown themselves willing to believe all sorts of ridiculous BS that they wish were true.
So, while intentional fraud may often explain such things, so may gullibility. Some of them likely believe the tall tales they're telling.
_________________
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -- Edmund Burke |
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entheta
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 859
Location: Out-Ethics
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:38 am Post subject:
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| ZenuEtrawl wrote: |
Many scientologists have been reeled in by various pseudoscientific scams, too. Cultists are the perfect public for something like that, they've already shown themselves willing to believe all sorts of ridiculous BS that they wish were true.
So, while intentional fraud may often explain such things, so may gullibility. Some of them likely believe the tall tales they're telling. |
Exactly...
My former SCN friends were into Herbal Life products... and they even were thinking about investing in "Gas Pills", a product that you put in your gas tank to improve fuel economy.
The websites explaining the "science" behind gas pills were always worded JUST LIKE Dianetics - a lot of meaningless jargon that sounded very similar to real science... I guess... I dunno, how can you be any older than 15 and not recognize a load of crap this obvious?
Anyway... what he said....
_________________
Cannot
Understand
Logical
Thinking |
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Peter Schilte
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 1746
Location: Vierlingsbeek (Netherlands)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:32 am Post subject:
Re: Water4gas Scam?
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| no_8c_now wrote: | Ran across this site water4gas.com making some incredible MPG improvement claims just by hooking up what amounts to a mason jar with tubes and some leftover e-meter parts. You gotta read this thing for yourself to get the full WTF impact.
The guy behind this is Ozzie Freedom (hmmm). Well Ozzie believes in full disclosure so he has posted his resume on on one of his many websites here,
http://www.sanecomputers.com/articles/resume/eyal.htm
Just looking at the names of the companies he has been associated with should throw enough red flags up, but he also has scanned his IAS Sponser award and his real name is Eyal Siman-Tov, which comes up as a past service completion on
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/e/eyal-siman-tov.html
In light of today's backlash against Scientology, I wonder if he really wants this association so broadly out there. In any case it should be, because if this guy is ripping people off with his "miracle" technology, it should be known where the roots of his ethics is grounded in.
Really entertaining reading here. It follows the "make it seem really important by putting it all on one long web page" school of free web page designs. This one even has the 'critical/scam' websites that turn out to be more advertising for his product. (who is Garko?)
The old adage if it sounds too good to be true... should have added, "Look for the Scientologist behind the curtain." |
The claimed "water-into-combusting-gas" is correct. We used to do that at high school. It results in a very explosive gas, a combination of hydrogen and oxygen.
Another way to produce it was to spill a little water on an anvil, and then, in one move, put a piece of red hot iron on it and hit the iron hard with a hammer: it resulted in a small explosion.
But it costs a lot of energy to make a usable amount of it. This thing has a very low capacity and uses energy that has to be produced by the car battery = the engine = car fuel. So it costs money to make money.
I wonder, having seen the "production unit", how safe it is to drive your car with a highly explosive device made of glass(!!) right in front of you.
It's just like the CULT: lots of promises and little results.
Peter
_________________
"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM."
- L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.scamofscientology.nl |
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Ladybird
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 5431
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:32 am Post subject:
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Here is another OT VIII scientology scammer:
One of the publications targetted by CCHR that caught my eye was "Lawyers and Settlements" magazine. It is very reputable, so I was surprised to think it would have anything to do with CCHR or scientology. Sure enough, there is not one mention of either in this bogus article by Evelyn Pringle, who is a leader of CCHR and a scientologist!
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/ssri-secret.html
Doyle Mills- Patient rights activist?
| Quote: | | Medical experts warn that prescribing drugs to children that have been approved only for adults, is extremely dangerous because the correct dosage has not been established for their weight and developing body organs. According to patient rights activist, Doyle Mills, psychiatry is turning into Russian Roulette. "There is no known safe dose," he says, "for any of these psychiatric drugs in young children." |
I looked at the home page to make sure it was related to the magazine I was thinking of and lo and behold, there was another scientology related company being sued! Here is the case:
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/western-culinary-institute.html
Here is a post I wrote after researching the parent company of Western Culinary Institute, CEC (Career Education Corp.):
| Quote: | There are scientology scam courses on line, that cost several thousands, and although they promise a degree, it is only a made up degree that is useless in the real world. (Much like scientology certificates).
On Sunday 30/01/04 "60 Minutes" ran a segment called "For
Profit College: A Costly Lesson" The transcript is available on
CBS.COM, and tells about what a scam many of these schools are. It
reminded me of an unpleasant experience I had while researching
schools for my daughter. (She ended up in a REAL college, thank God!)
One of the trade schools I requested info from was "SmartCertify
Direct". These people were so pushy and used so much scn lingo I felt
like I was talking to a Flag Reg! I looked them up and found out they
were located at 25400 US HWY 19 North, Clearwater, FL, and the owner
and several staff are Scientologists!
The owner is Jerry Dyas, IAS and Wise member. The VP Human Resources is Tom Godfrey, another clam. I
looked up some of the Scam Schools mentioned on TV and sure enough,
CEC (Career Education Corporation) is a parent company to Skillsoft
which owns SmartCertify Direct/SmartForce. These companies are ripping
people off for millions and shattering the dreams of hardworking
people, putting them in debt with Government backed education loans
and false promises of a job, when in reality these Certs are useless
in the real world. I plan to continue my research into this and info
"60 Minutes" as well as the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission)
about the Scientology connections and what a classic scieno scam this
is.
Google Jerry Dyas to see where HIS money goes.
As long as you
have money you are "in ethics", Scn does not care how "out ethics"
your methods of getting that money was as long as you hand it over. If
you get caught, you get declared and Scn claims they knew nothing
about it. Makes you wonder why they are so obsessed with sec checks,
surely the OT PC folders are filled with financial crimes. Maybe they
want to keep tabs on SEC investigations, etc so they can dump any
members who might be going down before it gets too close to scn?
Thanks again, and keep up the good work! |
****And then the 60 Minutes Transcript:
(I posted the entire transcript)
For-Profit College: Costly Lesson
Jan. 30, 2005
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php ... yas#162651
THEN, to go even deeper down the rabbit hole, this same JERRY DYAS wrote a letter to the editor of the ST Petersburg Times critisizing the Feb 10, 2008 Anonymous pickets!
| Quote: | Re: Protesters poke at Scientology turf, story, Feb. 11, 2008
This past Sunday I am in downtown Clearwater with my two daughters, ages 8 and 3, to visit my church, the Church of Scientology, when we are confronted by young men and women holding signs that say they "hate" our religion.
My daughter, visibly upset, asks me why they are doing it. I tell her it's what's called a hate group, that sometimes people hate other people's religion or even the color of their skin.
Not exactly the type of conversation I wanted to have on a beautiful Sunday afternoon with my kids.
Jerry Dyas,Clearwater |
This guy is a sleaze!!!! (AKA an "Upstat" scientologist") He needs to be investigated by the SEC, the IRS and put in jail for ripping people off with his sleazy for profit crap "training programs"!
Sorry for getting a little off topic, but it just amazes me how lowdown and sneaky these people are. I know more about these guys, too...another time.
_________________
"There is nothing as wild in the books of Man as will probably happen here on Earth...it will happen and be allowed to happen simply because all this is so incredible that nobody will even think of stopping it until it is far, far too late"~LRH |
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RedPill
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject:
Water enhancement tech
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There are TWO PROVEN techniques for using water to improve gas milage.
The first is use of a Brown's Gas generator. Anywhere from 35 to a few hundred watts are drawn off of your car's alternator to run a special electrolytic cell that breaks the water down into hydrogen and oxygen. Because of some specifics in the cell ... pulse width, frequency, pulse shape, current density on the plates, distance between plates, etc ... and also because the hydrogen and oxygen gasses are allowed to immediately mix ... the result is a largely MONATOMIC hydrogen/oxygen mix. Brown's gas is unstable, but WILL last long enough to travel down the gas line to your engine, where it does NOT REPLACE gasoline, but allows gasoline to combust more efficiently.
If enough BG is used, the temperature inside the cylinders go up considerably. To cool it down, a very fine mist of water is used, going into the cylinders, which flashes to steam upon ignition of the gasoline. This results in still more power and milage. THERE IS NO CONTROVERSY TO THE ABOVE INFORMATION. This tech has been around for quite some time, and is now becoming extremely popular as a result of the internet and demand due to high fuel prices.
The oversimplification is "water as fuel". In the above examples, water is both a source for hydrogen/oxygen mix as well as a propellant. To state that it is "fuel" would be akin to stating that steam is the fuel for a steam engine. In a steam engine, the steam is the propellant, the fuel could be a combustable solid, liquid, or gas, or even a nuclear heat source.
BUT ... there are OTHER claims made as well that ARE controversial. These claims are that the cell(s) producing the combustable hydrogen/oxygen mix use LESS energy than is produced by the car engine. These claims are usually accompanied by stories of dead inventors, someone who knows someone, assasins working on behalf of big oil, attempted bribes to keep the technology secret, stories of theft of documents after the great inventor was eliminated, the constant mention of Nicolai Tesla, and, a pitch for monies for plans and/or 5 to 15 thousand dollars in "earnest money".
I plan to build and install the proven enhancement devices this summer, and I will keep researching and hoping regarding the more tenuous "produces more energy than it uses" claims, up to and including a very few bux for plans, but ixnay on the "earnest money".
Pete |
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Simonymous
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 786
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject:
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| J. Swift wrote: |
This nonsense looks like another whacky, scheming Scientologist "Blue Laundry Ball" type of fraud in the making. Read about ATG's special "IE Water" fraud:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/ATG/#ie |
That was THEM!? Ahahahahahha! Figures! I remember seeing the adverts for that nonsense, but I had no idea there was Clam all over it! They sure are thorough in using every available avenue for wringing money from the general public!
PS: Ladybird, good work! 100 Internets to You! I imagine there's some office somewhere, where some high-up OSA goon is having his posterior regions handed to him by a higher-up OSA goon because stuff like this is posted on here today!
_________________
Uwe Stuckenbrock was destroyed by Scientology. These harms must never be allowed to continue. |
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J. Swift
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 8893
Location: 100 Swift Street
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject:
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RedPill: Please keep us posted on your BG device and what it does for your mileage. BTW, even if "they" released freshwater-powered cars tomorrow, it would not help as there is not enough freshwater in the world at present to satisfy our water needs. Water will become the next big crisis. Saltwater accounts for 97.5% of the world's water. The remaining 2.5% is freshwater. Of that, 68% is locked up in glaciers. We have only 32% of the world's freshwater actually available to us. That is why desalinization and solar power will be gigantic technologies in this century. We just do not have enough Water and Power. Apparent Factoid: If LRH were still alive, we could convert his verbal manure into enough energy to power Los Angeles for five years. That is how full of it LRH was.
*****
Scientologists were behind the Blue Laundry Ball. The link I posted to a Scientology business meeting is extremely funny as we watch these guys meltdown. This was quite a statcrash. These guys mention LRH by name and how bad it was for Erwin to have dragged LRH's name and tech into Top Marketing's problems:
| Quote: | (Lynn) xxx, Erwin, on this royalty thing, and I haven't even originated this to Bill, but this company is in deep shit right now with crashing statistics, we're laying off staff, we've got back bills mounting up, and the next Board meeting we have, I'm going to have something on the
table that these royalties on the front end, you guys have got to shitcan
this...
(?) Yeah, I was going to bring that up...
[MD: And now we have the pep talk from the eloquent Lynn Irons]
(Lynn) ...and fucking route off like she's in here, he's in here, he's in
here, she's in here, and we've got to go to work and make this fucking
company roll. We cannot have guys taking something on the front end and
leave it to the staff and a few managers to make the fucking company work, it's Like everybody's got to pick up - everybody's got to cognite they're in this goddamned boat and they'd better pick up an oar, because they're here on very much the same or more terms than anyone else. So I see with the financial condition this royalty thing is like it ain't gonna fly, it ain't gonna fucking work. Alberto's already originated giving up whatever royalties he had and going with what is his FP Number One? And I - I haven't mentioned it to Bill, but I think he has a willingness there...I mean, you're asking...you know, we're in a desperate situation and we need funds. I mean, I know...
(?) Desperate...
(Lynn) ...Bill took some of his funds to just make the Profit Sharing.
Some tax setasides on Some money he'd taken out. And then he handled
Profit Sharing. So we're going to the mattresses here, so to speak, I mean, it's balls - it up against the fucking wall, we're either going to bail this fucker out or it's gonna go down and it's gonna go down hard and
loud and in the media and weke all going to be doing our senrices (services) over at OSA because we made a spectacle of LRH Administrative Technology because of our fucking out-ethics. So that is the situation. So if you're lookng at what can you get out of this organization?, should you leave, forget it. What you probably should get is probably a bill for a half a million dollars in liabilities, if you look at what the current value of this company is and your, your participation in it, you're looldng at probably a bill for half a million dollars, that'd be cheap. That's the truth of it, this, is no exaggeration.
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contact: scienowriter@gmail.com
Last edited by J. Swift on Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:06 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Sea Horse
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 1965
Location: Clearwater Florida USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject:
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| J. Swift wrote: | | [MD: And now we have the pep talk from the eloquent Lynn Irons] |
Ah, the delightfully smooth Lynn Irons. Gotta love him. He was part of PES, Inc. in Clearwater, along with ex-GO staff Arte Maren and Freddie Ulan. Between the three of them, they siphoned off 45% (15% each) of every week's gross income. The staff always wondered why they didn't get anything more than a pittance. After 45% to the "founders", 15% to promotion, 10% royalties to WISE, that left 30% to pay the rent, electricity, telephones, supplies, SALARIES, expenditures, etc. And with over 10 other staff... there wasn't much left to pay them much more than org staff gets.
Oh oh oh... I almost forgot. PES charged thousands of dollars for a three day seminar covered in the Church of Scientology little booklets from The Scientology Handbook. You know, those ones that cost $5.00.
Lynn Irons then went to work on staff at Tampa Org and I think he had to come back to PES when the company floundered. Not entirely sure on that.
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entheta
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 859
Location: Out-Ethics
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:59 am Post subject:
Re: Water enhancement tech
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| RedPill wrote: | | There are TWO PROVEN techniques for using water to improve gas milage... |
Short answer:
water4gas is a scam. The idea of using Brown's Gas as a fuel supplement also appears to be debunked by several sources. One is copied below.
Long answer:
Brown's Gas and Energy by Tom Napier
So-called Brown's Gas is a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen gas prepared by electrolyzing water. Generators, which prepare Brown's Gas, are sold for welding. Brown's Gas has also been proposed as a fuel for internal combustion engines and as an input gas for fuel cells. Here I propose to examine the energetics of Brown's Gas and the practicality of these latter applications.
In electrolysis the output rate is a function of the molecular weight of the product, its valency and the total current passing through the electrolytic cell. One Faraday is that amount of current which will produce one gram.mole of a product with a valency of one. To split water, H2O, into H2 and O2 takes two Faradays per mole, that is two Faradays will convert 18 grams (about 0.635 oz) of water into Brown's Gas.
Two Faradays is equivalent to 193038 Coulombs. This equals the product of the current through the cell in amps and the time in seconds for which it passes. For example, if 5 amps pass through the cell it will take 193038/5 seconds or 10.72 hours to electrolyze 18 grams of water. Thus the output of a Brown's Gas generator operating at 5 amps would be 1.678 grams of gas per hour. At 500 amps the output would be 167.8 grams per hour and so on.
A cell running at 500 amps would produce 364 liters of Brown's Gas at atmospheric pressure every hour. (A liter of gas is about as much as a quart milk carton will hold.) My guess is that a welding torch uses some tens of liters of gas a minute. A practical Brown's Gas welder thus either has to operate at currents higher than 500 amps or must be operated in bursts.
Normally the current passing through the cell comes from a step-down transformer. At DC it takes some 1.7 volts to cause an electrolytic cell to operate. That is, our 500 amp cell is operating with a continuous power input of 850 watts. The AC input will be somewhat higher than this, depending on the details of the construction of the generator. Let's assume 1000 watts. That is, to generate 168 grams of gas requires one kilowatt.hour of electrical input or about 10 cents worth of electricity.
Suppose we wanted to run an internal combustion engine on this gas. How much energy would we get out? If we burn Brown's Gas we get pure water vapor. Burning 18 grams releases 242000 Joules of heat energy or 229.5 btu. (Allowing the vapor to condense would yield an additional 44500 joules, 42.4 btu, but in any conventional engine this output would only appear as waste heat and will be ignored.)
Thus if we drove an engine with 168 grams of gas per hour we would be putting 2.26 million joules per hour of heat energy into it. Operating at a plausible combustion temperature the thermal efficiency might be as high as 50% so we would get out 1.13 million joules per hour or 314 joules per second, that is 314 watts.
The bottom line is that we have put in about a kilowatt of electrical energy to get out under a third as much in mechanical energy.
Considering that the efficiency of an electric motor would be over 85% there is no justification at all for using a Brown's Gas generator and an internal combustion engine. An electric motor would do better at less cost and with far greater reliability.
It has also been proposed to use Brown's Gas in a fuel cell. Unless it is proposed to store the Brown's Gas, this is an inherently absurd idea. A fuel cell is fundamentally an electrolysis cell run backwards. That is, the same relationship between current passing and mass of input and output gas applies, less inevitable losses. If the oxygen and the hydrogen were generated separately, which they are not, an ideal fuel cell would generate a given current using exactly the same input gas flow as would be supplied by electrolyzing water with the same current. Unfortunately, the electrolysis cell requires an input voltage of around 1.7 volts while a practical hydrogen/oxygen fuel cell generates 1.23 volts in theory and perhaps 0.7 volts in practice. Thus the ratio of output electrical power to input electrical power would be roughly 42%. Operating such a system has no conceivable utility.
The only justification for such a double conversion would be if Brown's Gas could be stored in large quantities. Since Brown's Gas is an explosive mixture it would be hazardous to store any quantity of it at atmospheric pressure. To compress it for storage would be criminally stupid.
A standard cylinder used for storing hydrogen contains just over a cubic foot of gas under about 150 atmospheres pressure. At that pressure it would contain the equivalent of about 5380 liters of Brown's Gas. That is 2880 grams or 160 moles. At 242000 joules per mole a cylinder contains almost 39 million joules or 36700 btu.
There are two ways of looking at this. One is that the cylinder is a poor storage device since, for all its size and weight, it contains about as much energy as two pints of gasoline. The other is that each cylinder is the equivalent of 21 pounds of TNT in a steel tube. This is not something I'd want to have around!
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no_8c_now
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 1183
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:06 am Post subject:
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With the huge financial trouble GM and Ford find themsleves in, it stains the imagination that for 50 bucks in parts, they could double the mileage of their gas guzzling SUV's and truck's, generate immense goodwill, increase profits, stop needing to screw their workers and retirees yet refuse to do so as part of some big conspiracy with big oil...
But if I'm in Scientology, it all makes perfect sense. |
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RedPill
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Water enhancement tech
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| entheta wrote: | | RedPill wrote: | | There are TWO PROVEN techniques for using water to improve gas milage... |
Short answer:
water4gas is a scam. The idea of using Brown's Gas as a fuel supplement also appears to be debunked by several sources. One is copied below.
Long answer:
Brown's Gas and Energy by Tom Napier
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Regarding using BG: the point is not burning BG as fuel, it would obviously take more energy to produce than would be released via combustion, and only a fraction of that would then be useful energy. That is simply a fact of life. HOWEVER ... the point was not to use BG as a fuel but rather as an enhancement technique. The BG acts as a catalyst for burning conventional fuels. A sufficiently large quantity will allow other than gasoline to be used in a spark ignited engine, turning the engine into an omnivore, capable of burning just about any liquid fuel, limited only by the fuel system. At some point, there are diminishing returns due to inherent inefficiencies, BUT ... the average car will use about 35 watts to generate sufficient BG to enhance combustion to get a minimum of 10 percent better fuel economy to upwards of 50 percent more. Furthermore, not all websites sell this as a big money maker. You can go to http://www.eagle-research.com and for 20 bux buy the manual showing you how to make one for yourself on the cheap.
Use of BG will also cause a hotter temperature in the cylinders, allowing for a tiny water mist to cool it down. The mist flashes to live steam, giving additional useful energy.
Calling water a fuel is just marketing and over simplification. Attempting to get something for nothing energy wise? I haven't seen it happen yet, although I have spoken to those who have claimed to have made it happen or have seen it personally. I find it hard to believe. Using catalytic techniques to improve combustion? Proven and not at all new, but lots of people are discovering this because of demand for fuel economy as well as the internet.
Pete |
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