Can anyone say over-reaction?

Sorry to say it, but people need to get on with it and find something else in their lives to focus on. If this is enough for you to leave, then personally i would suggest you need some perspective on things. Leaving is probably a very very good idea for your general well being. Go take a walk outside, sunlight and vitamin D are your friends...

Try and remember what this is all about, and try and forget all the petty little e-wars that are dragging this down.

Then try and remember that CoS recently tried a new tactic against Anonymous (ignoring them)...and from all angles now, it looks like it is working. They're smarter than you think you know. (Oh look, i did all that without saying OSA once....shit).

p.s. If this thread passes the post count of the Tommy Gorman one without being locked i'm going to leave.... (/sarcasm)

believe it or not it is NOT just this Event - it has been building for quite some time .

take care

i know...believe me, i do

As i believe i said elsewhere - 'the match that lit the container of jetfuel'.

It's pretty funny all the same...i know most people see it in a different light. But the fact that everyone is taking their role/opinion so seriously is incredibly funny, if only because it's actually quite pathetic.

Operation: Put All Butthurt Energy To Good Use

Bakers vs. Nonys

Who can pull the most outrageous anti-sci op within the next 19 days.

WBM stands as judge.

Winning side gets a special non-appearing prize from J. Swift.

?

I know you do...

i hope people are understanding that the TECH of SCIENTOLOGY is SO dangerous... not only does it remove emotions from people but it damages the individual that has been programmed by it - usually FOR LIFE...

it is insidious as hell and it does not go away just because people LEAVE the (spit) church...

the TECH has been used a lot lately - on the boards- with most ppl using it not even realising it...

that is why it is called Mind control- it LITERALLY controls the mind---

i never understood why ppl would want to get rid of their EMOTIONS- good or bad i think emotions are the colour of life, really tho they hurt a lot sometimes or even often.

take care

i agree with what you say there BobDylon about lasting effects of indoctrination.

However, you seemed to imply (forgive me if i am mistaken here) that maybe i was one of those being affected by such?

For the record, i've never been involved in Scientology. i come at this as a researcher of New Religious Movements and in particular groups with coercive indoctrination techniques.

Pretty sure you weren't talking about me...but there was room for doubt so thought i'd clear it up

*edit* i will be lmao for quite a while if this thread manages to beat the original drama one it's getting there!

Yeah, but it didn't STAY in the dome did it?

The domers wrecked enturb for what?

It's ironic as hell that I can't speak my mind there now, for all the claims that this is all about "free speech".

White Rose, to put a finer edge on it, I value seniority + proven results + trustworthiness. Having said that, if a new OMCB member contacts me, and I am satisfied that they are serious and want to serve, I will mentor, support, and encourage them here at OCMB. There are several members of OCMB whom I have mentored and supported as Scientology critics. I am working now to mentor an OCMB'er who has such enormous talent that she should be teaching me. This work we do at OCMB takes mentoring and my mentors were Arnie Lerma and Ladybird. I return their kindness by mentoring new members who ask me for mentoring. Likewise, a certain Anon has kindly mentored me in the ways of Anonymous and I am deeply appreciative.

When I am satisfied that a new member who has approached me is not OSA or associated with OSA, I generally call them on the phone and/or meet them in person. These new members come to me for help. They want access, an introduction, information, or some other form of help and I provide it. When I see hostility and destructiveness in a new member, I oppose it. This is the way that I act to protect OCMB. I get hate mail, but I get far more letters that are very kind. In any case, I am only one member here. OCMB is not about me. OCMB is about helping people exit Scientology, educating people about its dangers, and cultivating and welcoming friendly new members.

Whether Anonymous realizes it or not, OCMB does have an informal culling process for new members. We test new people. We challenge them. We do not take any new member at face value. I got my ass kicked when I was a new OCMB member because I had serious conflicts about Scientology. I needed help from people here and Arnie and Ladybird gave me a huge amount of help. They saw how I was in need of help and had some potential. I try to do the same thing now with conflicted new members and look deeper at what they are saying. When they come on as hostiles, however, you can't work with that and you can't change it.

OCMB looks at attitude:Is a new member here in need of help? Do they want to contribute? Do they want destroy? We try to find their need and direct them to the right people or resources who can best help. Due to the nature of OSA and its deceptions, we err on the side of caution initially. One cannot fault OCMB for erring on the side of caution, particularly with hostile new members about whom we know nothing.

Virtually every new member at OCMB follows a predictable path:

1. Hi I am new. I have lurked for X years.
2. Here is my background in, or relationship to, Scientology. This is why I oppose Scientology and want to help.
3. Here is what I like and don't like about OCMB.
4. Here are my thoughts on what can be done.
5. Many questions to learn more about Scientology.
6. PM's to established OG members to whom the new member respects or likes. Phone calls follow. This is an "establishing rapport" process.
7. Personal meetings if a new member asks and they are trusted.
8. Relationships and friendships form over time.

When someone blows into OCMB and intends to "reform OCMB or destroy OCMB" well you know that we will ban them. This is just self-preservation and EO does the same thing. Some people come to OCMB with the express purpose of getting banned just for the bragging rights. I suspect that Daywatch came here as an Anon anti-hero who wanted to be banned for the glory it would bring him at EO.

*****
The following are my own remarks and do not necessarily reflect the views of Mr. Heldal-Lund, the sole owner and operator of OCMB, or of any other member of OCMB:

White Rose, the reason that there are so many anti-Scientology boards on the internet is that there is no one-size fits all board. We need the diversity of many boards and many individuals to oppose Scientology. I do not think that OCMB hinders creativity. I think rather that we have found our niche and our strengths. We found our sense of OCMB through trial and error, and the crucible of endless flame wars and fights. I believe that OCMB knows its limits and that is why we support and link to ARS, EO, ESMB, ESKB, etc. OCMB cannot be all things to all people.

I think that people expect too much of OCMB. This latest controversy will at least show that OCMB has limits and that other websites, other perspectives, and other approaches are needed and wanted. Every website in the anti-Scientology world has its limits and governing philosophy. Go read the FZ-friendly ESMB, or the ever-formidable ARS, and you will see two messageboards that are extremely distinct from both EO and OCMB. There is a clear need and want for that which EO and OCMB cannot provide. EO and OCMB cannot satisfy the vast demand for diversity. In some ways, though, EO and OCMB are far more related and companionable than many of us care to admit now during our first big fight. The make up sex should be great because the fight was nasty.

*****
OCMB does not stifle creativity; we rather define creativity differently from EO and Anonymous. We were the Moral Fags before the word was coined by Anonymous. That Anon term helped many in the OG to have a way to self-identify to Anonymous. OCMB has always called for peaceful and lawful opposition to Scientology. Andreas supports free speech to an incredible extent. OCMB links broadly to other sites; we embrace the diversity of the other boards; we act as a resource. People have to stop thinking that OCMB can or should be more than what it is. We are Moral Fags here at OCMB and we get along great with the Anons who are also Moral Fags. OCMB has no Chan Blood in it.

Thus, when creativity is discussed, it does not have to be defined as, "OCMB stifles Anon creativity" or "EO stifles GO creativity." It is rather a matter of recognizing the governing philosophy of the respective boards. OCMB cannot be EO anymore than EO can be OCMB. We do not want or need duplication here. We want the biodiversity of species, a vast Rain Forest of critics.

*****
If anyone is to be praised at OCMB, it is Andreas Heldal-Lund. He is the stoic, friendly, and inscrutable Dane who built OCMB with his own blood, sweat, and tears. Andreas' strength of character and conviction are the bedrock of OCMB. I have the utmost respect for Andreas. I think that I can safely speak for OCMB when I say that this board intends to honor and protect what Andreas Heldal-Lund has created and sustained in the world as an expression of his integrity and desire for the truth to be known about Scientology.

/////

Evidenced by the big bold red signature he had over there "Banned from Xenu.net due to lack of Freedom of Speech" or something to that effect.

To his credit - and another reason why this is getting beyond stupid now - he has changed the sig recently...so if he's over it, who the F*ck cares anymore?!

Swifty, I love your posts. They are well researched and written, and often very witty. When you disappeared for a while, my visits to this board trailed off considerably.

However, this whole place has become entirely too self important for me. For instance, someone recently posted a very condescending message about letters transposed in another post... someone who has posted thousands of messages to OCMB over the years with apostrophe's in the possessive form's of word's.

I just can't take it any more.



Please send me PMs that I can post to TD to get banned. Of course, don't include any personal information, or anything that you don't want posted. I would never betray a confidence.

I'm confused. Let me see if I'm understanding correctly.

1) Daywatch wants to bring about division between anons and some at OCMB. Daywatch gives that his best try at enturb, but does not make big problems here.
2) Roan does Daywatch's job by banning him, giving him more alienation ammo for TD.
3) ???
4) Profit!

The above doesn't make a lot of sense, so I'm thinking there's something missing.

1a) Roan reads Daywatch's much more strident posts on enturb, gets upset, and lets that influence his judgment as an OCMB moderator.

I'm not inside Roan's head, so I can't say that this is true. I hope that it isn't, because offsite stuff is a giant can of worms.

I'm not trying to challenge you, Roan, nor do I ask you to reply to this, or to offer any further explanation. It's very hard to be uninfluenced by things which are offsite, but if that door's opened, then all sorts of things can start going wrong.

I'm just offering this as food for thought.

Hey Roan,

I agree broadly with your stance - I felt DayWatch was getting upset about things which do not concern OCMB, although they may be very important from other points of view, particularly Channers'.

But we're not all channers and not all Anon are channers and it's a good thing too, or the appeal of the critical movement would be much too narrow and the focus would quickly wander, as has occurred during this kerfuffle..

So thanks for bringing a bit of order back,

BUT...

Surely Andreas is NORWEGIAN, not Danish .

Love to all

TomL

Who took it out of the dome? He of the half-page signature, Tommy Gorman Tommy Gorman.

Enturb works just fine as far as I can see.

And now we have this vast division between "old guard" and "omfg the one true anon!"

*spit*

Great post, J. Swift. However, Andreas is a stoic Norwegian, and they are proud to NOT be Danes.

We've had so many nasty fights here on OCMB, that it amuses me when newbie anons say we're placid old fogeys. We're more like battle-scarred old bears that can defend ourselves thoroughly, using logic and fact and non-violence, thank you very much.

There are battles I've stopped fighting. I used to try to debunk reincarnation, since past lives are such a big deal in Scientology, but I can't argue against a vivid, hypnotically induced false memory. Now I prefer provable issues like minimum wage.

I'll go to the mat to defend Andreas, though. He gave me a cyberspace voice, on OCMB, when I was afraid to speak at all, and he patiently showed us how to interact in our subversive, potty-mouth ways while holding free speech as the ultimate goal. Anonymous gives me a safe date and time, once a month, to stand up in real life and let Scientology hear my real voice, and I salute them. I hope the mainstream Anons will see that they will evolve and form tight alliances in their groups, and have that same kind of loyalty.

I was at an Anonymous picket and saw a group that had bused in from another city, and watched them between shouting and waving picket signs. The only phrase I could think of was pilgrims from Canterbury Tales. They were TIGHT. They ate lunch warmly together, picketed as a team, and I was wistfully envious, not only for their youth and idealism, but for their future together. Anonymous, as I've said before, is on a journey that outsiders can hardly imagine. I believe that deep loyalty will come for many of them. So let us have our loyalty, too.