Offical Policy, and please note that "the environment" in 4. above means, just outside the Org's doors.

Only to degrade, confuse and contort, of course.

I recall a time when an Ethics Officer was doing a "KR Handling" with me (yeah, I know... no policy on that VERBAL application... where's KSW!?) and wanted to know what I was going to do in present time about a small theft I'd committed as a child in another country over 20 years prior.

Uh... like what the hell could be done. Nothing, Sir Idiot!

Did the Scio-robot really have to ask that question?

Lucy,

I think that was well said indeed. I loved the way you put it: "mechanical".

Mechanical also describes the Promotional Graphics, as well. There has always been something about those graphics which looked so contrived and so unnatural. Plastic, is how I would have described it back in the '60's. Anyway, they have always been the same! Very cold.

Wow, what a good thread!

I was on staff too, once, but never in SO. That was before DM. Same story back then, too. Endless hours, and not enough days in the week. I must say, though, that there was a Mission in the 'burbs which seemed much less "worked". Highland Park, Il. Not like the local Class IV Org, where I was. Missions had a lot more leeway back then... I remember that. The Mission holder was making good money, actually. Just a few staff.

Then the crackdown, and the massive Declares. He lost the Mission, and moved to LA. I lost contact because I was leaving the CoS then (early '80's).

He was a pretty close friend of mine on and off before and after scientology. Young, very much in fit, handsome guy. Sometime during the '80's, still in LA, he died. Aneurysm. He left a wife, and 2 kids. I know for sure he was Old OT IV, but was also either on or completed NOTS. They called it "NOTS" back then. I don't know what OT level would be equivalent today. He was also a Class VI auditor.

I can't say that his life would have fit the "Karoshi" definition, but IMO, he did suffer a huge blow in loosing his Mission. He really was a dedicated scientologist, as evidenced by the fact that he stayed in and remained true to the cause till the day he died. But he wasn't over-worked like SO or Org staff.

I mention this because there has been an argument over "application".

That was back then, and the Missions were using the same essential Bulletins as were the Org's, yet the Missions and Orgs were very much night and day. Everything about them, really, was different. People in Missions did better, not just financially. Yet they were applying the same policies for the most part. There was more slack.

Mog, the way Missions were back then (here in the US) might explain more about how you feel about the tech, only that's how you feel about it now. The Missions, for the most part, were wiped out. All the while the Org's would more represent the LRH part of scientology, because they were closer to him back then. Then, there was the SO, which was insane, compared to an Org. Closer yet, to LRH.

I've said this before, Mog, that you are unique in that you have some selectivity. This is not normal!, and I know you know it. Personally, I hope you will continue to re-evaluate, and express your opinions, because in writing them and reading responses... because of your selectivity... in time more of this will unravel. I forget if it was SeaHorse or Lucy, who she she FELL through the steps. One thing is for sure, IMO, and that is that all of the good (all of it) has come from you. You can tell me all night long how it was LRH, but I can counter that it was you in combination with your natural abilities and instincts... that despite LRH or tech, it is you who is doing it.

That's not a bad situation to be in, if you think about it. You can have your way, or, you can be told that you yourself are better than your way. Either way, you come off good. So I'd play with it a little bit.

Anyway, I just finished reading to this point in the thread. Can't comment on what may be after me.

Great thread, good people... thumbs-up people. The best.

So MY best to you all.

Re Responsibility and Application:

Newclear wrote:


This is true mostly, Neclear, but it's not exactly the tech. It's more like what you would have it be. I always looked at it like you do. At first I felt blessed to have a way in which I could see the errors of my ways, and then change them for the better. That's what the above quote is trying to say, and I think that's what you mean by it.

At this point, I'd challenge someone to come up with where in the tech it says to use Responsibility, to re-direct one's life by making directional changes (going up the Bridge, definitely NOT included). Even in Newclear's example, he talks about HAVING better control, but I don't see where he carried that further to where it requires one to correct current behavior with future actions and direction in mind.

Conceptually, yes it's a nice idea to "be more at cause" by using "Resonsibility". When you read the Responsibility definitions, it nudges you toward that idea. My contention is, that's YOUR idea (and it is a good one). That's your idea because that's your instinct pulling you toward that.

How did they used to say? Look at it in a new light.

I always said the goodness in scientology was in the people themselves. When you read this stuff, you tend to look at the glass as being half full, so you lean to the light side. DM and people like that, see the REAL tech in its REAL context,. IMO. They are the ruthless bastards, who are simply carrying on.

Oh, I also said there are/were some real bitches and bastards in there too. I don't recognize any of those folks here.

Good luck to every one! I'd like to tag along here. Good thread.

Entheta wrote:

Entheta & Mog,

IMO, Study Tech is dangerous…

Even though most of us recognize that the ST is more of a compilation of things already known (looking up words one doesn’t understand, get one thing conceptualized before moving on to another thing, etc.), the tech itself erases judgment in a matter of minutes and eventually, seconds.

It is said that <symptoms> of going past a word, or not having a balance of theory w/ application, is to FEEL LIKE SHIT. Scientologists are trained to monitor how they FEEL, while studying. At the exact moment one feels like shit, one immediately looks inward and asks oneself, what is my problem? What have I done? Well, here’s the real problem: reading endlessly droning, pure drivel, can make one feel like shit! Instead of recognizing it as shit, though, and not worthy of wasting time on, one, feeling like shit instead inherently questions one self’s ability to comprehend. It can take as few as one grueling page in one book to seal the deal.

Read this, every word, and see how you feel: (Taken from one of the many valuable ‘Hubbard’s Mushroom’ Scripture posts)



LRon says that there is something wrong with you for not getting that. Now, imagine for a second that all of the “miracle” of ST were to come down on you… and by God you’d understand it!

If you get up and say, “I just read a bunch of crap”, every resource in the Org will focus on YOU, and what YOUR problem is.

ST applied in the real world, on real-world subjects, however, becomes more of an application of the commons sense things we were taught in school or by our parents. Also, in the real world, we actually come across much less droning drivel. And of course we look up words in the dictionary!

Well I have to agree that I have never had a good ethics handling inside scientology.

The truth is that once you find yourself in ethics within scientology you are already in a justice situation. You are going to be made wrong. You are going to be made wrong even when you are right.

I read up on ethics really to defend myself against ethics. We were going to be comm eved so we star rated eachother on all the stuff. We had the volumes. We became pretty sharp on ethics. They found us guilty on only one minor point which we had foolishly admitted to. It was nattering to eachother about the ED. Once you are going to be comm eved its pretty much certain that you will be found guilty. Otherwise the COS would be wrong to have comm eved you and it is never wrong.

However, if you read the ethics stuff and understand the true meaning of conditions then it is really very sane. However, finding the correct condition of something is not so easy and it takes skill and observation. If you find the right condition and follow the steps for that condition then things improve. I have done this many times.

SRF

I am sure that I am very unusual. Then I think that everybody is special in their own way.

What do I think of scientologists today? I think they are all a few cents short of the Euro. They expelled all the sane people years ago and those that are left are living some made up reality that has nothing to do with normality.

I dont know what the freezone is like but hopefully some of them have genuine smiles and dont talk as though they have a broom stuck up their ass.

It was just a game that you outgrew only Ron made the rules so you were not allowed to stop playing. I stopped playing when the game did not live up to my romantic ideals. However, certain things remain true for me.

However, thank you for reminding me that it was always me who made the gains because scientology is only a game and when a person becomes the victim or loser in that game it is the most distructive thing for as long as the person remains in agreement with the rules. That SRF is why I break the rules.

+++++++++++++Sacred Cult Scripture++++++++++

We're not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn't
cute or something to do for lack of something better.

The whole agonized future of this planet, every man, woman
and child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless
trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with
and in Scientology.

This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting out
of the trap now, we may never again have another chance.

Remember, this is our first chance to do so in all the
endless trillions of years of the past.

— L. Ron Hubbard
Keeping Scientology Working
© 1991 L. Ron Hubbard Library

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yeah... it's the first time in L. Con Hubbtard's long line of lifetimes that he has been oh so very close to enslaving an entire population.

Xenu? I think L. Con was talking about himself!

Mostly, Ron enslaved himself. Everything he claimed to be a trap, he threw himself into wholeheartedly. If we want to do a justice action here for own enlightenment, let's examine Ron's ethics conditions on each dynamic, especially in his later years. On every single dynamic, he was in Treason at best.

Now, just because Ron built a huge mansion (OK, mostly stole it from others, but he still possessed it) and then slept outside in the pouring rain, doesn't mean that we cannot use some of these ideas that are sold under the brand name of "Scientology" to some benefit.

HM.

Well if you thought that you could turn distruction to construction then you would not consider the game to be negative or minor.

Some people back in the good old days thought they could clear the planet. It seemed to be a good although an impossible goal.

Thats why people joined the SO and spent the better part of their lives working towards the impossible. Misguided perhaps, idealistic for sure, oddball and crazy sometimes.

It would appear now that the goal has changed to how to own the planet. Thats another game and one not worth five minutes. The fact that people are still willing to play is surprising.

Newclear,

As we are not aware of all the information regarding Ron after he handed over control of the organisation to the Board of Directors we are not in a positon to judge his ethics conditions.

He handed over control shortly after snow white and Mary Sue went to prison. This was 74 or 75.

Have you thought that maybe he just wanted out of the game himself. He had had about ten years of being hounded and maybe he was pissed off with it all. Maybe he just wanted to write his books.

There is much we do not know.

His death and the report thereafter is very fishy.

I watched the video with a young DM announcing the death.

I put my auditor training into action and watched it with good TRS and Obnosis.

DM looked very shifty. His body language tells you he is not telling the truth. He was young and he lied and he has been stuck with that ever since.

The one who should have been pissed was Mary Sue Hubbard. She was the one who took the rap and did the time. I will never believe that she acted on her own during Operation Snow White, rather that she was carrying out the wishes of her husband. After she was indicted, LRH distanced himself from her. It was a form of disconnection. Then, Miscavige got in her face while she was sick with cancer and forced her to sign away most of LRH's fortune after he died. She got a settlement but nothing near what she was entitled to.

You see, Mog, there's another type of spouse abuse that many people don't know about. In the case of MSH it wasn't physical or sexual abuse, like with his first two wives, but a form of exploitation. It is not uncommon for abused women to bear the brunt of being of being the main or ONLY provider, sometimes holding more than one job while their shiftless husbands continue to whale the daylight out of them. In MSH's case she was given the responsibility of OSW, a huge and risky undertaking. She carried through for him due to his infirmities, and continued to make excuses for him, as exploited women will, only to be abandoned at the end.

"Some people back in the good old days thought they
could clear the planet. It seemed to be a good although
an impossible goal."
"It would appear now that the goal has changed to how
to own the planet. Thats another game and one not worth
five minutes." - Mog

Sorry Mog,

Hubbard's game has always been the same...
To clear people's bank accounts and turn them into slaves.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"All men shall be my slaves!
All women shall succumb to my charms!
All mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"

- L. Ron Hubbard, The Affirmations, 1946
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sorry HM

Some people made very good gains and would state that money spent had more than come back to them.

However, I am not so out of date as you might think and I know that clearing out peoples bank accounts has been going on for a long time. I though can date the change from the declaration of the people at the mission holders conference, the price rises and heavy ethics applied to all. This also incidently occurred with the change to the grade chart and the new policy on people going clear.

I do know that Hubbard had already handed over control prior to the above changes. I was an intern at the time when I read the HCOB handing over control to the board.

Why Hubbard handed over control I do not know.

How involved he was with the new policy and price rises I do not know.

I do know that prior to the price rises auditing and training was within the reach of the majority and scientologists did not incur debt to get it. Training was fairly inexpensive and you could if you made it go right co audit at least half of the grade chart.

Judith,

What is interesting is that neither Mary Sue nor any of the immediate children of Mary Sue and Ron Hubbard have ever made one world of complaint.

Snow White was a mission undertaken by the GO. The GO was supposed to protect the group. It did in fact put the group in danger. Mary Sue had control over the GO.

Frankly you would find fault with whatever Hubbard did.

If he had left all his fortune to his wife and children you would have accused him of creating scientology only for personal gain.

As he left most of the assets to the COS you now accuse him of not providing for his wife and family.

I agree with you though Mary Sue and the children should have got more after all St Hill Mannor which he owned in the very early days of scientology must be worth an absolute fortune. Do you not think it strange that Mary Sue who you describe as an abused wife would not have after his death refused to hand over the assets? I mean most estranged wives would even put up a fight for the worn out funiture. Mary Sue who you claim had served a prison sentence for her husband never said a word.

Could it be do you think that she too believed in the goal of clearing the planet? She was after all a pretty active member of the group.