Snake Thompson

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caroline
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Clara Thompson and Snake Thompson

Post by caroline » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:24 am

As Peter noted, the Silas Warner article mentions Clara Thompson (1893-1958) in connection with Joseph Cheesman Thompson. This line of research revealed some more details about Snake Thompson.

Snake Thompson first met Clara Thompson at St. Elizabeths Hospital in 1918. Clara took a summer job there between semesters at Johns Hopkins. Snake was then stationed at St. Elizabeths. It was rumored that the two were romantically involved, but this was denied by Clara.

Clara did her psychiatric residency at Phipps Clinic under Adolf Meyer. During her last year, she began psychoanalysis with Snake Thompson, an arrangement that led to her dismissal from the clinic.
Adolf Meyer to Dr. Warfield T. Long-cope (Johns Hopkins Hospital), May 19, 1926 (AMP, Series I.) wrote: Dr. Clara Thompson resigned from the Clinic last October or November, and I allowed the resignation to pass because at the time I did not actually know that, in addition to matters which would have made continuation of service impossible, she had since June treated one of several patients of the Clinic for a fee of $100 a month at the offices of a clever but unsavory psychoanalyst, a Navy recruiting officer who was a U.S. spy in the Orient during the War. If any other facts were needed to settle the question of further connections with the Johns Hopkins Hospital, I should let you have them. She is bright, but unduly free of some traits we would like to consider obligatory. (Grob, p. 276-7) —Grob, G. N. (1985). The inner world of American psychiatry, 1890-1940 : selected correspondence. New Brunswick, N.J., Rutgers University Press.
(Emphasis mine.)

The following passage from Clara Thompson's papers undoubtedly refers to her own analysis by Snake Thompson.
Interpersonal psychoanalysis : the selected papers of Clara M. Thompson, Thompson, Clara, Green, Maurice R. (Ed.) wrote:Notes on the Psychoanalytic Significance of the Choice of Analyst
[...]
The second case is that of a woman with a male analyst. The first meeting was at a social gathering. In the course of the evening they had a conversation together which led to his suggesting that she come to see him professionally and discuss her being analyzed. Her reaction was fear but she realized that she needed analysis, that he would probably accept her for a fee which she could pay, and finally she felt irresistibly attracted to the situation. Analysis was begun, fear continued, sleeplessness developed, difficulty in working appeared, and the patient finally lost her job. The analyst repeatedly urged the patient to seek the sources of her fear of him in her fear of her father-to no avail. The difficulty lay in the analyst. There was in him some tendency to get women away from other men and make them entirely dependent on him. The patient in question had a neurotic attachment to her employer which was reciprocated by the employer, who also had a neurotic need for power. When this situation began to be analyzed, the analyst's jealousy reinforced the patient's own tendency to make indirect aggressions of a serious nature against her employer with disastrous consequences. Although the patient continued in analysis for some months after the loss of her position, she made no further progress, having lost confidence in the analyst on a reality basis. Later her analysis was successfully completed by another. p. 1351
Clara Thompson and Frieda-Fromm Reichmann were both staff at Chestnut Lodge, a private mental hospital to which St. Elizabeths apparently referred some of their schizophrenic patients. Another site about Chestnut Lodge...

Hubbard spoke about Chestnut Lodge in a Philadelphia Doctorate Course lecture, although he called it Walnut Lodge.
Lecture 04 December 1952: The Logics Methods of Thinking by L. Ron Hubbard wrote:This is the most gorgeous, by the way, piece of classification that has ever been done. And it hasn’t any use. Its level of use is demonstrated by the fact that there’s a place by the name of Walnut Lodge. I… I… They don’t see anything humorous in that, by the way; it’s Walnut Lodge. And that’s a spinbin down the line here. And uh… Walnut Lodge has… has… treats only… only uh… psychiat… oh uh… pardon me I… I said that accidentally, not as a gag, uh… uh… not as a gag.

They… they… they sent three people to see, to… to see me and every one of them was under treatment. And this was their staff. But anyway, very good people there, I’m sure, didn’t happen to meet any. Have some fine patients though. Anyway, they… they treat only schizophrenia. And so they take only schizophrenics. Now how do they get only schizophrenics?

Well, anybody sent to Walnut Lodge is a classified schizophrenic. And they take somebody who is a dementia praecox unclassified or a more modern definition, a mania-depressive and they take him from Saint Elizabeth’s and they take him over to Walnut Lodge and he goes onto the books as a schizophrenic. Why? Because Walnut Lodge takes only schizophrenics.

Now you can look at them and you say, "Now wait a minute, let’s go over this awfully slow," you say, "What’s a schizophrenic?"

"A schizophrenic? We take schizophrenics here."

You say, "No, no, no, what is a schizophrenic?"

"You know what a schizophrenic is," they say, "a schizophrenic is a general type of insanity and so when we take schizophrenics here that ends the whole thing."

Actually, the modern definition of schizophrenia… actually the American psychiatrist does not define schizophrenia from its root word of shizoid or schizoid, meaning scissors-like, and it means a split personality. And you think that a schizophrenic today is a split personality person? That’s not true. It hasn’t anything to do with… it’s… I don’t know, I don’t know what it is. I go around and I get these guys and I hold them against the wall and I say, "Now look, what… what is this?"

And they say, "Well, uh… we had to go to school for twelve…" "Well, wai… wai… wait a minute now. All I want is a common English definition or a Latin definition or even put it in Sanskrit. I can find a translator, but I want you to tell me what so and so is or why." And you get the most… it’s… it’s just A=A=A=A explanations.

Well, he rowed a horse because he rode a horse and that’s on down the line – no sense. You get that way by treating psychotics. Don’t ever treat psychotics.
Hubbard recommended one of Dr. Clara Thompson's books, Psychoanalysis: Evolution and Development, in Operational Bulletin 17 No. 2 14 Feb 1956 Processing Results. (Technical Bulletins Volume III p. 323 (c) 1991 L. Ron Hubbard Library)
INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST TRAINING ROUTINE – TR L
Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively.
Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.

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Hubbard and Snake Thompson: Spooks

Post by SuzanneMarie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:13 am

Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, USAF, has written about LRH, with whom he served contemporaneously during WWII:

"For example: Almost all of Hubbard's military record is replete with markings that signify deep intelligence service at the highest levels. Many of his records, copies of official records, revealed that even the originals had been fabricated in the manner peculiar to the intelligence community in a process that we call "Sheep Dip." I myself have supervised a lot of that function in the offices I managed during 1955-1964.

"Sheep Dip" is a process that provides, customarily, three files. One is the true civilian record of the agent. One is his agency or military record. The third is his 'cover' personality and all that it takes to support it."

The really good stuff is here:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n17175927

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CST

Post by Marcab21 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:31 am

Commander Snake Thompson = C.S.T.

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Mentions of Snake Thompson as intel

Post by caroline » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:19 am

Adolf Meyer to Dr. Warfield T. Long-cope (Johns Hopkins Hospital), May 19, 1926 (AMP, Series I.) wrote:Dr. Clara Thompson resigned from the Clinic last October or November, and I allowed the resignation to pass because at the time I did not actually know that, in addition to matters which would have made continuation of service impossible, she had since June treated one of several patients of the Clinic for a fee of $100 a month at the offices of a clever but unsavory psychoanalyst, a Navy recruiting officer who was a U.S. spy in the Orient during the War. If any other facts were needed to settle the question of further connections with the Johns Hopkins Hospital, I should let you have them. She is bright, but unduly free of some traits we would like to consider obligatory. (Grob, p. 276-7) —Grob, G. N. (1985). The inner world of American psychiatry, 1890-1940 : selected correspondence. New Brunswick, N.J., Rutgers University Press.
Barefaced Messiah sidebar wrote:William Sims Bainbridge, the eminent sociologist and author of several papers on Scientology, reports this vignette of the man:
Snake Thompson was the best friend of my great uncle, Con (Consuelo Seoane). Together, around 1911, they spent nearly two years as American spies inside the Japanese Empire, charting possible invasion routes and counting all the Japanese fortifications and naval guns.It was an official but top secret joint Army-Navy spy expedition, with Con representing the Army, and Snake, the Navy. They pretended to be South African naturalists studying Japanese reptiles and amphibians, and Con was constantly worried that Snake had a camera hidden in his creel, which would get them shot if the Japanese checked too closely. Thompson habitually wore a green scarf fastened with a gold pin in the shape of a snake.
(private email, quoted by Rob Clark, in article <336000c9.122495268@news.mindspring.com> posted to alt.religion.scientology on 25 Apr 1997) -- Dean Benjamin http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfm01.htm#24
Lecture 23 September 1950 Further Introduction to Dianetics by L. Ron Hubbard wrote:Man has been thinking for a very long time about man. I was in the Orient when I was young. Of course, I was a harum-scarum kid; I wasn’t thinking about deep philosophic problems; but I had a lot of friends. One such friend was Commander “Snake” Thompson. He was a very interesting man. He signed his name Thompson by drawing a snake over the top of the T. He was quite unique. He is still very well known by repute in the navy today, but he has been dead, I regret to say, these many years.

He had studied under Sigmund Freud, and he found me a very wide-eyed and wide-eared boy. He had just come from Vienna, and his mouth and mind were full of associative words, libido theories, conversion, and all the rest of it. He had been out into the Polynesian group, and had dug up ancient skeletons of a race nobody had ever suspected existed before. He had served as an intelligence officer in Japan during the First World War. This man had a tremendous influence upon me.
---
Edit: I personally contacted Mr. William Bainbridge in 2006 and obtained written confirmation from him that the information in the above quote is correct.
Last edited by caroline on Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST TRAINING ROUTINE – TR L
Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively.
Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.

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Post by peter » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:44 am

caroline wrote:Good additions, Peter.
peter wrote:Soderqvist1:
Korzybski
The statements by LRH in the early 1950's about the initial research round 1945 on Dianetics (trademark owned by Religious Technology Center) are unequivocal. The jump was from Spencer to Breuer to Korzybski to Dianetics.
Can you post a cite where Hubbard says this?

Thanks also for the new link to the Silas Warner article.
Soderqvist1: that statement is not by Hubbard!
It is the Cos Scientologist Paul W Tabakas’s Inference as earlier linked by me!
You can read his link here and tell me what you think about it!
This is another development proposed by him labelled the Psychiatric problem;
Thomas Stephen Szasz (b. 1920).
The historic development seems to have been more or less so :
Whitehead —> Korzybski (1922-4) —> Whitehead (1927) — (S. Chase) —> S. Langer —> T. S. Szasz.
http://www.geocities.com/paultabaka/korzybski/etc.html
Soderqvist1: this is also a link by him you should investigate!
The link is huge but it can be found somewhere in the middle!
On The Thelemic Thetans' Theophanies
( by me WPT, May 07 )

Note "As early as 1945 some of [A.] Crowley's American disciples, gathered together in the Agape Lodge of California, had attempted a revival of sexo-magical ritual work. The most prominent figure in this group was Jack Parsons, a brilliant physical chemist ... Parsons had recently lost his mistress, who had transferred her affections to a new member of the Agape Lodge. He had earlier lost his wife to yet another magician so, feeling disillusioned with human beings, decided that his next sexual partner would be an ELEMENTAL, who would naturally be incarnated in an ordinary woman's body.

Comment I have spotted a few details slightly off in the above account, which still looks exceptionally accurate (by comparison with many other sources). WPT

Note "In August 1945 Parsons met L. Ron Hubbard, the future founder of Scientology, who at that time was known as little more than a writer of pulp stories and something of an eccentric. At the time he met Parsons he was a naval officer on leave, and Parsons invited him to stay at his house for the remainder of his leave. They had quite a lot in common. Parsons was very interested in science-fiction, as was Hubbard. Hubbard, for his part, was interested in psychism and magic. As anyone will know who has read the critical biography . . " etc.
(From the papers of Phylis Seckler ; found in the Internet).

Comment The 'cricial biography' in question was a book of disinformation. It would be pointless presently to blame the author of the above for having relied on it ; this bit I found informative in a way — how easily people could be deceived, who from all appearances were neither illiterate nor feeble-minded, Professor. — (WPT).
http://us.share.geocities.com/paultabak ... ional.html
Paul W Tabaka Homesite!
http://www.geocities.com/paultabaka/

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Post by caroline » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:42 pm

peter wrote:
caroline wrote:Good additions, Peter.
peter wrote:Soderqvist1:
Korzybski
The statements by LRH in the early 1950's about the initial research round 1945 on Dianetics (trademark owned by Religious Technology Center) are unequivocal. The jump was from Spencer to Breuer to Korzybski to Dianetics.
Can you post a cite where Hubbard says this?

Thanks also for the new link to the Silas Warner article.
Soderqvist1: that statement is not by Hubbard!
It is the Cos Scientologist Paul W Tabakas’s Inference as earlier linked by me!
You can read his link here and tell me what you think about it!
This is another development proposed by him labelled the Psychiatric problem;
Thomas Stephen Szasz (b. 1920).
The historic development seems to have been more or less so :
Whitehead —> Korzybski (1922-4) —> Whitehead (1927) — (S. Chase) —> S. Langer —> T. S. Szasz.
http://www.geocities.com/paultabaka/korzybski/etc.html
Soderqvist1: this is also a link by him you should investigate!
The link is huge but it can be found somewhere in the middle!
On The Thelemic Thetans' Theophanies
( by me WPT, May 07 )

Note "As early as 1945 some of [A.] Crowley's American disciples, gathered together in the Agape Lodge of California, had attempted a revival of sexo-magical ritual work. The most prominent figure in this group was Jack Parsons, a brilliant physical chemist ... Parsons had recently lost his mistress, who had transferred her affections to a new member of the Agape Lodge. He had earlier lost his wife to yet another magician so, feeling disillusioned with human beings, decided that his next sexual partner would be an ELEMENTAL, who would naturally be incarnated in an ordinary woman's body.

Comment I have spotted a few details slightly off in the above account, which still looks exceptionally accurate (by comparison with many other sources). WPT

Note "In August 1945 Parsons met L. Ron Hubbard, the future founder of Scientology, who at that time was known as little more than a writer of pulp stories and something of an eccentric. At the time he met Parsons he was a naval officer on leave, and Parsons invited him to stay at his house for the remainder of his leave. They had quite a lot in common. Parsons was very interested in science-fiction, as was Hubbard. Hubbard, for his part, was interested in psychism and magic. As anyone will know who has read the critical biography . . " etc.
(From the papers of Phylis Seckler ; found in the Internet).

Comment The 'cricial biography' in question was a book of disinformation. It would be pointless presently to blame the author of the above for having relied on it ; this bit I found informative in a way — how easily people could be deceived, who from all appearances were neither illiterate nor feeble-minded, Professor. — (WPT).
http://us.share.geocities.com/paultabak ... ional.html
Paul W Tabaka Homesite!
http://www.geocities.com/paultabaka/
Imo, it was dishonest of Tabaka to say Hubbard's statements about the initial research of Dianetics are "unequivocal." If Tabaka is a "Scientologist in good standing," Scientology's leadership would not permit his site to stand as it is unless it serves the cult's purposes.

Further, Thomas Szasz is a cult collaborator and co-founder of CCHR. He wrote two books titled "The Myth of Mental Illness," and "The Manufacture of Madness," which the cult promotes on its web site. http://www.cchr.org/index/7352/7343/11112/

A real opponent and credible witness to the Scientology brainwash was Dr. Jolyon West. He mentions Szasz here.

Tabaka's "research" on Hubbard and the OTO is very sloppy too. We have much more reliable sources for Hubbard's involvement.
INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST TRAINING ROUTINE – TR L
Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively.
Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.

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Louis Jolyon West

Post by SuzanneMarie » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:36 am

Dr. Louis Jolyon West was probably best known for being a proponent of psychosurgery, the attempt to alter behavior by cutting away parts of the brain.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... i_n9651775

http://www.english.ucla.edu/ucla1960s/7 ... agano4.htm

When I was a student at UCLA I recall seeing the flier handed out (which Max Nagano has duplicated in his link).

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Re: Louis Jolyon West

Post by PTS » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:52 am

SuzanneMarie wrote:Dr. Louis Jolyon West was probably best known for being a proponent of psychosurgery, the attempt to alter behavior by cutting away parts of the brain.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... i_n9651775

http://www.english.ucla.edu/ucla1960s/7 ... agano4.htm

When I was a student at UCLA I recall seeing the flier handed out (which Max Nagano has duplicated in his link).
What's your point?
You are the first one to cry when scientology's past crimes are brought up, yet you won't address their crimes of present.
Now you dredge up crap from the 60's
It's a new world SM, wake up, you're stuck in the past.

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Re: Louis Jolyon West

Post by Fanboy The Great And... » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:29 am

PTS wrote:
SuzanneMarie wrote:Dr. Louis Jolyon West was probably best known for being a proponent of psychosurgery, the attempt to alter behavior by cutting away parts of the brain.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... i_n9651775

http://www.english.ucla.edu/ucla1960s/7 ... agano4.htm

When I was a student at UCLA I recall seeing the flier handed out (which Max Nagano has duplicated in his link).
What's your point?
You are the first one to cry when scientology's past crimes are brought up, yet you won't address their crimes of present.
Now you dredge up crap from the 60's
It's a new world SM, wake up, you're stuck in the past.
Or to put it another way, when psychiatry found out that stirring the brain with a knife didn't work, that it didn't cure any mental conditions and only worsened them in some cases, they stopped doing it.

Scientology does not produce Clears. It does not produce Operating Thetans. It DOES produce psychotics galore and destroys the lives it promises to save.

So, what's the difference between Psychiatry and Scientology?

Psychiatry can examine its practices and change the ones that do not work, and psychiatrists can question the generally held preconceptions and work to redefine them. Scientology and Scientologists cannot.

Which is, amusingly enough, what Snake Thompson was working towards apparently - merging ancient mysticism with modern psychiatric practices.
"Of course he went by Ron; who would have
taken a guy named Lafayette seriously?"

"Scientology is only about convincing the able they're crippled,
and lying to the crippled with the promise of making them able."

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Post by peter » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:18 am

Caroline Letkeman wrote;
Imo, it was dishonest of Tabaka to say Hubbard's statements about the initial research of Dianetics are "unequivocal.
Soderqvist1: How do you know that he is not honestly mistaken?
I have read his link and his conclusion seems correct!
Show me whats wrong with it!

This is from the link General Sematics versus Scientology with a further link to Jon attack!
However, Hubbard was also to deny Freud: "As a matter of fact, to Breuer's first belief in the subject of mental catharsis and to Korzybski belong the only acknowledgments that Dianetics really would care to make. Because both General Semantics and Breuer furnished some data. Sigmund Freud is not in there ... But Breuer was pretty right. It was Breuer's theory that full recall equalled full sanity ... The jump is from Spencer to Breuer to Korzybski to Dianetics. (32). [Research and Discovery, vol.1, p.440-441]"
— Jon Atack, from Possible Origins of Dianetics and Scientology.
http://home.snafu.de/tilman/j/origins6.html
Soderqvist1: I think Jon Attack is mistaken!
You can review my evidence here!
viewtopic.php?t=27670

Soderqvist1: you can see Korzybski's sources here in connection with my link above!
http://www.geocities.com/paultabaka/kor ... euler.html

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Post by caroline » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:05 pm

peter wrote:Caroline Letkeman wrote;
Imo, it was dishonest of Tabaka to say Hubbard's statements about the initial research of Dianetics are "unequivocal.
Soderqvist1: How do you know that he is not honestly mistaken?
I have read his link and his conclusion seems correct!
Show me whats wrong with it!

This is from the link General Sematics versus Scientology with a further link to Jon attack!
However, Hubbard was also to deny Freud: "As a matter of fact, to Breuer's first belief in the subject of mental catharsis and to Korzybski belong the only acknowledgments that Dianetics really would care to make. Because both General Semantics and Breuer furnished some data. Sigmund Freud is not in there ... But Breuer was pretty right. It was Breuer's theory that full recall equalled full sanity ... The jump is from Spencer to Breuer to Korzybski to Dianetics. (32). [Research and Discovery, vol.1, p.440-441]"
— Jon Atack, from Possible Origins of Dianetics and Scientology.
http://home.snafu.de/tilman/j/origins6.html
Soderqvist1: I think Jon Attack is mistaken!
You can review my evidence here!
viewtopic.php?t=27670

Soderqvist1: you can see Korzybski's sources here in connection with my link above!
http://www.geocities.com/paultabaka/kor ... euler.html
This is what Tabaka said in the link you provided:
Tabaka wrote:The statements by LRH in the early 1950's about the initial research round 1945 on Dianetics (trademark owned by Religious Technology Center) are unequivocal. The jump was from Spencer to Breuer to Korzybski to Dianetics. http://www.geocities.com/paultabaka/korzybski/etc.html
If Tabaka means that the statements made by Hubbard are the statements made by Hubbard and Tabaka's expressing a banal banality like that, then yes, they're unequivocal. If Tabaka is saying, as is implied, that what Hubbard said in the early 1950's about the initial research round 1945 on Dianetics was unequivocal as in "true" or "lacking in ambiguity," then he is being willfully dishonest. Your choice.

Hubbard did say, "The jump is from Spencer to Breuer to Korzybski to Dianetics" in his lecture of 29 June 1950 titled Vocabulary and Cases (Research and Discovery Volume 1, p. 441). The topic of his lecture was Vocabulary and Cases; the context is "Educational Dianetics."

Hubbard's claimed 1945 research included gaining access to Oak Knoll's medical library and patient records by impersonating a medical doctor, and hypnotizing unwitting POWs and other mental patients. (Ref. Ron the Researcher.) Is Tabaka saying that Hubbard's claims made in those lectures and references are unequivocal fact?

Hubbard was judicially declared a pathological liar by Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Breckenridge in 1984, in the Scientology v. Armstrong case in which Hubbard's claims about himself were a key issue.
Judge Breckenridge wrote:The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background, and achievements. The writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egoism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile. At the same time it appears that he is charismatic and highly capable of motivating, organizing, controlling, manipulating, and inspiring his adherents. He has been referred to during the trial as a "genius," a "revered person," a man who was "viewed by his followers in awe." Obviously, he is and has been a very complex person, and that complexity is further reflected in his alter ego, the Church of Scientology. http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/l ... ision.html

The Breckenridge judgment was affirmed on appeal.

On his page, Tabaka provides one cite to a zoologist by the name of Herbert Spencer Jennings who Tabaka claims made a comment about Korzybski:
Tabaka wrote:* Herber Spencer Jennings (1868-1947). Zoologist.

'The attempt of Count Korzybski to formulate the world and its processes, keeping in view as a guiding principle the fact that no two things are identical, seems to me of the greatest interest and value. It is something that had to be done’, etc.
(H.S. Jennings, Scientific Opinions, 1933)
I believe Hubbard was referring to a Herbert Spencer (1820-1903), but I'll go on record saying that even that is equivocal. :wink:

I haven't studied the other thread titled Hubbard's Sources!. I'll try to keep my responses on this thread as close as possible to the original topic.
INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST TRAINING ROUTINE – TR L
Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively.
Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.

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Post by peter » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:15 am

Caroline Letkeman wrote partly:
On his page, Tabaka provides one cite to a zoologist by the name of Herbert Spencer Jennings who Tabaka claims made a comment about Korzybski:
Soderqvist1: if you bother to scroll down little further you will end up at;
* Lafayette Ronald Hubbard (1911-1986).

"Know your general semantics ?"
L. Ron Hubbard, The Evolution of a Science, 1948, (Los Angeles, 1979, page 68].

On Korzybski's Work and on the Data Series
The first article of the Data Series (1970) contains a critique of Korzybski's work. After some "in-depth" research one concludes, there were some things the Ron Hubbard did not know.
Thad has been corruption of the term 'semantics' going on ; and it was quite deliberate, by certain authors. (Do not take my word for any of this, the reader, but pray make sure to examing the human records the 20th century, including but not limited to the items given below).

NOTABLY :

* Carnap, Rudolf, 1891-1970. Title(s) Introduction to semantics ... Cambridge, Mass, Harvard university press, 1946. 263 p. Series Studies in semantics ; v. 1 Bibliography: p. [253]-256.
* "What Is Semantics?" by Anatol Rapoport. An article in American Scientist, January 1952. (See more notes below).

* Schaff, Adam. Introduction to semantics. N. Y., Pergamon, c1962. 395 p. 23 cm. Includes bibliography.

There may also be some more to this story. Has the term 'semantics' been corrupted ; and, if so, who exactly had done something of the sort. The above titles, and a few other articles (please check this out on your own if you de not believe this, the reader), show that there had been an organized action of tampering with the terms.
Korzybski himself had pointed this out and complained against it on numerous occasions ; this can be found in the records of his writings.
Ron Hubbard's statements on the corruption of the term in question could be indeed a classic instance of a "third party" activity, by Ron Hubbard's definitions ; albeit he himself had not spotted this one.

WPT

Note I report strenuous "third party" activities ever since ca. 1945 — which went altogether unnoticed.

The statements by LRH in the early 1950's about the initial research round 1945 on Dianetics (trademark owned by Religious Technology Center) are unequivocal. The jump was from Spencer to Breuer to Korzybski to Dianetics. The apparent trend consisted, among other articles, in :

a) The psycho-analytic approach ; more particularly the early 'cathartic method' by Josef Breuer — see the reports on the case of Bertha Pappenheim ("Anna O.") ; cf. the "Preliminary Communication" by Breuer and Freud (1893).
Korzybski had merely pointed this out (as the way to go so to speak) : "make the 'unconscious' 'conscious'" (Science and Sanity, 1933, page 492 etc ; though K only mentions Freud) ; Hubbard (1945 etc.) had developed the techniques which he called auditing.
b) Non-identification (Korzybski had 'non-identity', primarily on the foundations of mathematics — co-terminous with the foundations of any language). It seems that 'non-identification' can be substituted for 'non-identity' in any non-mathematical usage.
c) The 'engineering attitude' (A.K.), or, the 'engineering approach' (LRH) ; this also ties with the works of many an other engineer (e.g. B. Fuller).
d) The postulational method (see also C. J. Keyser, R. D. Carmichael, etc.) ; see the Axioms of Dianetics and the Axioms of Scientology on one hand and Postulates on the Know to Mystery Scale on the other hand.
e) The non-animalistic concept of Man, pivotal with Korzybski (see Manhood of Humanity, 1921, etc.), also clearly stipulated by Hubbard within his framework.
f) Sanity a question of degree (Korzybski) — and not of 'kind'. Please note that the Tone Scale is "also a scale of sanity".
g) The multi-ordinal terms (for example, 'the book of books', 'the lord of lords', 'the history of history', etc.) ; not necessarily just quibbles, were systematically approached by Korzybski. I have never seen Hubbard mention the 'multi-ordinal' terms but confer 'the awareness of awareness unit', the 'knowing how to know', etc.
h) Non-elementalism (Korzybski) — or, no artificial verbal splitting. Confer "Mind and body." . . "Who said they were separate?" (Hubbard, The Evolution of a Science, 1948, Los Angeles, 1979, pages 37-8].

These definitions, albeit technical, can be found in the Oxford English Dictionary. The problems of elementalism (artificial verbal splitting which has no bases in the facts) have been and are present in practically every issue today. Korzybski had left a good deal of treatment to these ; Hubbard had not used the given labels ('elementalistm' and 'non-elementalism') — at least I have never seen them within his writ — but he had a fundamental understanding of the type of problem and there can be tens (if not hundreds) examples found within his writings, instances of such verbal difficulties mentioned and most often resolved in some fashion.
Comment : to propose that landing Man on the Moon is possible and actually to land one there might be widely remote stages of attainment. Such a compariston may very well apply to some of the propositions by Korzybski (the notable 'make the unconscious conscious' has been a sort of constant within many authors of the psycho-analytic bent).
As the world went forward, the one thing which has changed little during the progress from Korzybski to Hubbard has been the modus operandi. Derived from the physical sciences, the idea of a method has been known during the most of Man's recorded history, the particular developments having been the domain of each individual researcher one sees invariances between them.

On Dianetics and Scientology

The spiritual side has rather to do with Scientology — which was evolved from the earlier study called Dianetics. This earlier work by Hubbard is of more mechanistic character. On the spiritual side, Korzybski was not much of a soulist, usually (S & S) rather far from it (but a few remarks by him in Manhood of Humanity, etc., do align). A statement somewhere on the possible influence of one's "engineering friends" could perhaps elucidate these stories.

Caveat Emptor

Please safeguard very carefully (or try to obtain) any early, including the earliest, editions of the works by L. Ron Hubbard — such as would likely be authentic. Even if you should seem to disagree with the author.

Before you can either reject or accept any such work, the reader, you must make sure that you are evaluating authentic statements by its author — and not some fabrications by some third parties.

(Incidentally, this would apply to any author at all, anyway).
L. RON HUBBARD Messiah of Madman? Bent Corydon
Page 287: Sara Speaks " Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health took some eighteen months to write. The majority of it was written in Savannah, Georgia, then Bayhead and Elizabeth, New Jersey.
"He was the happiest I'd ever seen him when he wrote. In Savannah, where he wrote part of Dianetics, he was doing great. We had a wonderful time. "I thought there was some validity to Dianetics, and that Ron had something to contribute.
http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/m ... Madman.txt
Soderqvist1: then if you scroll down little further you will end up at!
Note on Aleister Crowley
* Aleister Crowley (1875-1947).

"We place no reliance on Virgin or pidgin ;
Our Method is Science, our Aim is Religion."



"Hear me, Ye People of Sighing,
The Sorrows of Pain and Regret
Are left to the Dead and the Dying,
The Folk that not know me as yet."

—A. CROWLEY (Liber Legis, 1904).

Usłyszcie mnie, wy wzdychajacy :
Wsze smutki, zale i boleście
Zostaja dla martwych i mracych —
Dla ludku co nie zna mnie jeszcze.

—(translated by me, W. Paul Tabaka, ca. 1993).

Note As a matter of non-elementalistic attitude one does not disregard any material that might be producive of relevant invariances. ("Leave no stone unturned", urged Count Korzybski ; which, by the way, was probably not original with him but rather a statement of an ages-old principle of science.)
So far as I could tell by my own reading, Korzybski had not known any A. Crowley's works ; had he ever seen some of them he might have dismissed them. (Parts of Crowley's early material might look inscrutable indeed and on a casual glance perhaps even unmeaning).
Had Crowley known K's work ? This seems somewhat probable. It seems certain that among the authors broadly considered some have been important, notably, A.N. Whitehead, E. Cassirer, also Lancelot Hogben. These were K's sources and were also, among others, sources to A. Crowley.
A shift in Crowley's style beginning, at the latest, circa 1940 can be easily observed. This seems connected to his statements about Mathematics for the Million (Hogben) ; although the statements I have seen were inexact ('Arithmetics for the Million', etc).

A.C.'s translation of Tao Teh King (by Lao-tsu) begins with, 'The name is not the thing named'. Not far from 'a word is not the thing' (Korzybski). Crowley's version of Lao-tsu was first done circa 1918 ; a revised form was published circa 1940. It seems possible and somewhat probable that this translation may have been influenced during the course of the linguistic revisions Crowley had at some point undertaken ; by connections with Hogben, Cassirer, and, directly or indirectly, with Korzybski.
One would claim some indirect connections with certainty : (there having been a sort of milieu in operation). Crowley also mentions the 'mixing of planes', which is quite nearly equivalent to the 'confusion of the orders of abstraction' ; either expression denoting fallacies which have been and are present in most any publications, whether 1930's or 2000's.
However, the statements by Israel Regardie, a follower and for a time a secretary of Crowley, linking the latter with general semantics, must be disregarded. The subject was not about 'clarifying the referents', or any 'referents'. There may have been some oblique connections with the works by other authors ; but, please note well, Professor, Korzybski's work had first of all do to with the natural order of evaluation. This is not about 'referents' and anybody's blunder of saying so is arch-fundamental. (WPT).
http://www.geocities.com/paultabaka/korzybski/etc.html
Reviews Written by Paul Tabaka (Glendale, CA) on Amazon.com

Manhood of Humanity
A Key Influence in the 20th Century, April 26, 2000
This work has influenced just about everyone who was anybody during the previous century.The first published work by Korzybski, emanates with enthusiasm towards humanity, hobeit somber some of the observations contained in it. It is rather simple; yet makes the reader think anew about long forgotten questions he/she might have had at one time or other. And there are some good answers in it; some of them can be seen as timeless.

The Law Is for All: The Authorized Popular Commentary of Liber Al Vel Legis Sub Figura Ccxx,
the Book of the Law by Aleister Crowley

May this surprise not: the book does contain chunks of most genuine wisdom of government. Some of the material would pertain to the present elections very well.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-rev ... centReview
Soderqvist1: there are more on Crowley, Korzybski, and Hubbard on his Homesite!
BTW, Tabaka is from Poland, just as Korzybski!!
http://www.geocities.com/paultabaka/

peter
Posts: 846
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 11:17 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Mentions of Snake Thompson as intel

Post by peter » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:18 am

caroline wrote:
Adolf Meyer to Dr. Warfield T. Long-cope (Johns Hopkins Hospital), May 19, 1926 (AMP, Series I.) wrote:Dr. Clara Thompson resigned from the Clinic last October or November, and I allowed the resignation to pass because at the time I did not actually know that, in addition to matters which would have made continuation of service impossible, she had since June treated one of several patients of the Clinic for a fee of $100 a month at the offices of a clever but unsavory psychoanalyst, a Navy recruiting officer who was a U.S. spy in the Orient during the War. If any other facts were needed to settle the question of further connections with the Johns Hopkins Hospital, I should let you have them. She is bright, but unduly free of some traits we would like to consider obligatory. (Grob, p. 276-7) —Grob, G. N. (1985). The inner world of American psychiatry, 1890-1940 : selected correspondence. New Brunswick, N.J., Rutgers University Press.
Barefaced Messiah sidebar wrote:William Sims Bainbridge, the eminent sociologist and author of several papers on Scientology, reports this vignette of the man:
Snake Thompson was the best friend of my great uncle, Con (Consuelo Seoane). Together, around 1911, they spent nearly two years as American spies inside the Japanese Empire, charting possible invasion routes and counting all the Japanese fortifications and naval guns.It was an official but top secret joint Army-Navy spy expedition, with Con representing the Army, and Snake, the Navy. They pretended to be South African naturalists studying Japanese reptiles and amphibians, and Con was constantly worried that Snake had a camera hidden in his creel, which would get them shot if the Japanese checked too closely. Thompson habitually wore a green scarf fastened with a gold pin in the shape of a snake.
(private email, quoted by Rob Clark, in article <336000c9.122495268@news.mindspring.com> posted to alt.religion.scientology on 25 Apr 1997) -- Dean Benjamin http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfm01.htm#24
Lecture 23 September 1950 Further Introduction to Dianetics by L. Ron Hubbard wrote:Man has been thinking for a very long time about man. I was in the Orient when I was young. Of course, I was a harum-scarum kid; I wasn’t thinking about deep philosophic problems; but I had a lot of friends. One such friend was Commander “Snake” Thompson. He was a very interesting man. He signed his name Thompson by drawing a snake over the top of the T. He was quite unique. He is still very well known by repute in the navy today, but he has been dead, I regret to say, these many years.

He had studied under Sigmund Freud, and he found me a very wide-eyed and wide-eared boy. He had just come from Vienna, and his mouth and mind were full of associative words, libido theories, conversion, and all the rest of it. He had been out into the Polynesian group, and had dug up ancient skeletons of a race nobody had ever suspected existed before. He had served as an intelligence officer in Japan during the First World War. This man had a tremendous influence upon me.
---
Edit: I personally contacted Mr. William Bainbridge in 2006 and obtained written confirmation from him that the information in the above quote is correct.
Uttermost East and the Longest War. By Seoane, Rhoda Low.
258 p., 3 plates (photos), diagrams, index; 20.5 cm. "Rhoda Seoane has woven through this book a most graphic account, dealing with the Boxer Uprising, Putnam Weale, her late husband, Colonel Seoane, and his friends, Commander Joseph ["Snake"] Thompson
and Brigadier-General Henry J. Reilly, active in the U.S. Naval and Military Services,
http://www.tomfolio.com/bookdetailssu.asp?b=830&m=220

ANTIQBOOK Uttermost East and the Longest War
The trials and travels of the author's husband, Colonel Conseulo Seoane, who with Joseph Thompson , sucessfully performed espionage all over Japan and Okinawa; Written by the widow of Consuelo Seoane who was one of only two officers who successfully performed espionage in Japan and China in the first decade of this century, immediately following the Boxer Rebellion and the Russian Japanese war.
http://www.antiqbook.com/boox/ind/12953.shtml

Soderqvist1: I have found something more here about Thompson's History, this is a short quote from page 30-31

INTERNATIONAL PSYCHOANALYSIS VOLUME 3. ISSUE 2 1994
In 1930 Joseph Thompson M. D. came to S. E He was an American born analyst who trained at the Washington Baltimore Institute. He had been a naval surgeon and had wide ranging interests. Associated with A. A. Brill, Franz Alexander, William Alanson White and others, he was something of a renegade in his thinking and practice and consequently was viewed as a “wild analyst”. One of his “wild” views at the time, in contrast to the ApsaA, was his fervent adherence to Freud’s advocacy of lay analysis and disapproval of any medical monopoly of psychoanalysis. Though an M. D. Thompson mistrusted medical doctors, the American Medical Association
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:nn ... d=13&gl=se
A simple explanation with few explanation grounds is to prefer, except when you need to hide your flaws! - Peter Soderqvist

Don Carlo
Posts: 11771
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:46 pm

Maybe Snake told Hubbard some spy stories, and Hubbard used those to create the lie that Hubbard himself was a dashing spy.

peter
Posts: 846
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 11:17 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by peter » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:34 pm

Soderqvist1: I have found an extensive interview with Joseph Thompson’s student Jacques Schnier!
He has personal knowledge of Thompson, which can be, somewhat correlated with Hubbard’s claims about his personal acquaintance with Thompson, this is only a small excerpt from the interview, there is much more about Thompson there!!

Hubbard’s Autobiography by Chris Owen
Commander Thompson He was a tall, rangy, eccentric individual. His friends called him "Snake" and his enemies called him "Crazy". He had lots of both. He lived a life to very much please himself in spite of being a Naval officer and would read until he fell asleep, falling sideways over onto his bunk and get up and go about his duties when it pleased him, regardless of Navy schedules. Through his friendship I attended many lectures given at Naval hospitals and generally became conversant with psychoanalysis as it had been exported from Austria by Freud. He was a very fine man and I was very fortunate to have known him.
http://www.solitarytrees.net/cowen/misc/auto2.htm


A Sculptor’s Odyssey by Jacques Schnier

Page 123 Riess: My impression from what you've said about Thompson is that he was a little eccentric.

Schnier: A little, yes. For example, he had cats and he wore woolen shirts
like a Pendleton shirt. He was very what do they say in the
jargon of the Haight Street generation? everything hung out? Is
that it?

Riess: Yes, hang loose, or laid back?

Schnier: Laid back, oh yes. Well, hang loose, yes. And it made you feel
very comfortable, but he could be very strict. Not strict, but very firm in certain situations.

Riess: What was his attachment to Eastern philosophy?
Buddhism? Why did he know

Schnier: He was a naval officer during World War I, and part of his years
in the service were spent in the Orient, and that's where he was
exposed to Buddhism. I think he had a friend who was a Buddhist
who had entered the Buddhist monastery. Be that as it may, he
had studied it thoroughly. He was a deep thinker. He was constantly
searching. He wasn't the type who sits back and is satisfied with
just reading the morning newspaper.
http://www.archive.org/stream/sculptoro ... h_djvu.txt


Sigmund Freud in the Library of Congress

Correspondence with Sigmund Freud, 1876-1974 Box 42
Sun, Joe Tom (pseudonym of a Dr. Thompson, Baltimore, M d.), 1923
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/h?f ... ner%20List
A simple explanation with few explanation grounds is to prefer, except when you need to hide your flaws! - Peter Soderqvist

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