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machwon
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 863
Location: Wichita, KS
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 Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject:
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Here's the thing about conspiracy theories about anything. If there is a huge evil and powerful kabbal of people murdering and killing innocent people and have absolutely no problem murdering people who stand in their way of money or power then why are all the whistle blowers still alive? Bo Gritz, Alex Jones, Michael Badnarik, David Icke, Jimmy Walter, Eric Hufschmid, David Ray Griffin, Texe Marrs, you name them; all allowed to live and spout "the truth" about these evil masters of ours. Of course you can point to William Cooper, but Cooper for years has been on shortwave radio threatening government officials and the IRS that he will kill them if they step foot on his property. Then when they came to investigate, he pulled a gun on them and got shot. Occam's razor, again, would say ol' Bill was a bit too paranoid and gun happy as he himself demonstrated regularly.
What I find funny is if a believer in a particular conspiracy meets with another believer that has a slightly different rendition of the conspiracy; THEY'RE IN ON IT TO MAKE THE REST OF US LOOK CRAZY! 
So how far does this Jonestown rabbit hole go? How far does any conspiracy theory go? New World Order types? The evil Illuminati? Freemasons? Zionist Jews? Lizard people from outer-space?
There's no way to convince a conspiracy theorist. They have a laundry list of excuses and logical fallacies to give them comfort of mind. I've even heard people claim that Hubbard was involved in the Illuminati and Scientology was a mind control experiment. I've read Freezoners claim that David Miscarriage is part of the CIA and took over the church which the evil government people have been trying to steal Scientology tech since he wrote Dianetics (as if they gave a shit about Scientology's fail tech.)
_________________
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http://jimjesus.com
(∃x∈S:φ(x))→ (∀x∈S:φ(x)) = Scientology logic |
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Sea Horse
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 1965
Location: Clearwater Florida USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Later on, former green beret Lt. Col. Bo Gritz spoke out on Jonestown, claiming that there was not only CIA involvement but also army Special Forces involvement. Gritz claimed that Jonestown was a CIA experiment, the Green Berets were there as standby to guarantee no escapees. According to Gritz, half of the culties were done by the special Coolaide, the other half were done by the Green Berets. |
If this story were true, then how is it that 30 some people escaped death on that day? You think a bunch of scared-to-death, half starved, sleep deprived people with NO special ops or military training could outsmart a bunch of well-armed and trained Green Berets and Special Forces intent on capturing and killing them?
Pshaw! What poppycock. Give the storyteller another drink, pat him on the back, nod your head Yes in agreement, then ignore the drunken boob.
_________________
We are the architects of our own lives. Design and build the life you want. |
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RedPill
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:21 am Post subject:
Re: The reason
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| machwon wrote: | | RedPill wrote: | Tom,
I was stationed in good old Rotten Grotten, on a submarine that was home ported at the submarine base there. There was, at that time, one of two (previously three, there was one in New Haven) missions in Connecticut run by F. Brown McKee. The other mission was in Berlin then relocated to New Brittian, CT. The mission was in New Brittian when Jonestown happened. Brown McKee's missions were with the old Mission Office World Wide (MOWW). Brown refused to go over to SMI and was eventually declared, that was in January of 82. Anyways, when Jonestown happened, Brown was convinced it was a govt. setup to lay the groundwork for an attack on Scientology.
Later on, former green beret Lt. Col. Bo Gritz spoke out on Jonestown, claiming that there was not only CIA involvement but also army Special Forces involvement. Gritz claimed that Jonestown was a CIA experiment, the Green Berets were there as standby to guarantee no escapees. According to Gritz, half of the culties were done by the special Coolaide, the other half were done by the Green Berets.
Pete |
^^ is not evidence. Is speculation. Also; after doing a Google search on this Bo guy... doesn't seem very credible.
Occam's Razor is still dictating Jim Jones was a carismatic sociopath. Given the arciac and primitive methods of mind control compared to that of Scientology or The Moonies; I cannot see why government would bother with a lame experiment. Also it's worth noting that not that many people "drank the Kool-aid" so-to-speak, most of them were murdered.
It's also worth noting that Jim Jimed didn't poison Kool-Aid, he poisoned Flavore-Aid (a cheap knock off) |
Speculation, yes. I never claimed to have personal knowledge or know for a certainty. What I did to is paraphrase what Bo Gritz said to his audience at Freedom Call 90 out in Las Vegas.
A lot of what was discussed out there were some of the WELL DOCUMENTED cases of government abuse, such as the Tuskeegee syphilis experiment (a movie was made about that) other documented and admitted to government experiments on unwitting and nonconsensual subjects for various chemical agents and/or biological agents. With everything else that was discussed, there was some speculation regarding Jonestown as well as what Bo Gritz brought forth.
I can't prove weather the govt. was involved or not in Jonestown, all I know is what Bo Gritz stated, and peripheral evidence not directly related to Jonestown, fully documented and admitted to, that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the govt. or certain govt. agencies are at least fully capable of conducting an operation such as Jonestown as an experiment and not loosing any sleep over it. Occam's Razor simply doesn't work 100% of the time.
Pete |
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RedPill
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:36 am Post subject:
Occam Schmoccam
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| machwon wrote: | Here's the thing about conspiracy theories about anything. If there is a huge evil and powerful kabbal of people murdering and killing innocent people and have absolutely no problem murdering people who stand in their way of money or power then why are all the whistle blowers still alive? Bo Gritz, Alex Jones, Michael Badnarik, David Icke, Jimmy Walter, Eric Hufschmid, David Ray Griffin, Texe Marrs, you name them; all allowed to live and spout "the truth" about these evil masters of ours. Of course you can point to William Cooper, but Cooper for years has been on shortwave radio threatening government officials and the IRS that he will kill them if they step foot on his property. Then when they came to investigate, he pulled a gun on them and got shot. Occam's razor, again, would say ol' Bill was a bit too paranoid and gun happy as he himself demonstrated regularly.
What I find funny is if a believer in a particular conspiracy meets with another believer that has a slightly different rendition of the conspiracy; THEY'RE IN ON IT TO MAKE THE REST OF US LOOK CRAZY!
So how far does this Jonestown rabbit hole go? How far does any conspiracy theory go? New World Order types? The evil Illuminati? Freemasons? Zionist Jews? Lizard people from outer-space?
There's no way to convince a conspiracy theorist. They have a laundry list of excuses and logical fallacies to give them comfort of mind. I've even heard people claim that Hubbard was involved in the Illuminati and Scientology was a mind control experiment. I've read Freezoners claim that David Miscarriage is part of the CIA and took over the church which the evil government people have been trying to steal Scientology tech since he wrote Dianetics (as if they gave a shit about Scientology's fail tech.) |
Regarding Alex Jones et al: these people are protected precisely because they ARE in the limelight, and to have them whacked would only add to their credibility. The question is not are these people right or are they wrong, the question is to what extent are they right and what percent of the time are they right. Meanwhile, there have been lots and lots of people who committed "arkancide" because they DID have damaging information that they DID NOT go public with. Alex Jones has had various guests on who claimed to have had damaging information that he has personally begged, on the air, to go public. One of these people was the DC Madam who DID NOT go public and was, in fact, Arkancided.
Regarding Arkancide, and the Clinton body count ... there were dozens of bodies that turned up that were associated with Bill Clinton, going back to his days as Governor of Arkansas, hence the term Arkancide, as in obvious homicide deemed to be a suicide. One such case is a coincidence. Once you get to a dozen such cases surrounding one person, i.e., Bill Clinton, an actuary can determine the odds, which comes up into the trillions to one against pure chance. Once two dozen bodies turn up tied to one particular individual, the odds go to astronomical to one against it all being coincidence. The Clinton body count was well over two dozen. But of course, there is no such thing as a conspiracy, only kooks believe in such things, right?
Pete |
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newclear
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 702
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:07 am Post subject:
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I haven't personally witnessed David Miscavage beating up staff. At the big PR events, he presents himself as the savior of "standard tech" Scientology. If he were actually breaking the law (assault and battery etc.) so many times, obviously someone would have pressed charges.
I invoke Occam's razor. It is far more likely that the people who are saying these things are simply jealous and disgruntled. I have known several women who pressed charges when their husbands hit them, so this is a normal thing to do in such a situation. This is a much simpler explanation for these reports, so Occam's razor says I shouldn't believe that David Miscavage beats people up.
Frankly, I find the use of the term "Occam's razor" usually used as a substitute for investigation.
_________________
You're so screwed, so screwed, the Way to Slappiness is the way to flappiness. |
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JohnS
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 288
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:56 am Post subject:
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Any hypothetical reasons for CIA involvement in Jonestown
may not be so obvious to the average person. Then again,
early CIA experiments spiking unknowing victim's drinks
with LSD (at least one decided he could fly and leapt to his
death from a NYC skyscraper in the early 50's) merely to
see "what would happen" kind of speaks to their idea of
"worthy experiments". Like the mountaineer who climbs a
mountain "because its there"...getting 900 people to commit
voluntary simultaneous suicide just might fit CIA's
conception of a worthy project...if nothing else, just to
see if it could be done!
As far a scientology's usefullness to these black budget
operators...the little dictatorship of scientology, with pseudo religious
trappings and fanatical followers, literally cries out for
exploitation. Think of the interesting tidbits of information
which might be gleaned from a "confidental" PC folder
if the right PC from some target organization is the
subject of interest.
Wouldn't the world's intelligence agencies love to have a
Catholic Priest on the payroll? Think of the little gems they
are privvy to in the confessional booth. The Priest is
bound by solemn vows of confidentiality. Unlike the
scientology "auditor", the RC Priest does not keep detailed
dossiers on his confessees. So much more useful would
be a scientology auditor and his library of "confessions".
The Soviet KGB ran the Russian Orthodox Church for 70 years.
They didn't hesitate to exploit the Russian Church's confession
sacrement. Because of it's usefulness to the State, the Russian
Church was allowed to exist during the communist era.
We can only speculate about the various ways scientology
can be of use to the "Powers that Be". May very well
be something...else the "church" would be squashed like
a bug. If the "church" ever posed a real threat...it would
be rubbed out regardless of any perceived usefullness. |
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machwon
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 863
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:28 am Post subject:
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| RedPill wrote: | | Regarding Alex Jones et al: these people are protected precisely because they ARE in the limelight, and to have them whacked would only add to their credibility. |
Alex Jones wasn't born with a radio show you know. He got famous by doing conspiracy stuff. They could of whacked him off years ago before anyone knew about him. They did knock off William Cooper and his credibility has gone nowhere. Almost no-one knows who Texe Marrs or Erik "I secretly hate jews" Hufschmid is. Now would be a great time to knock them off.
And once you actually do some investigation of Jim Jones and The People's Temple, the more you realize that anyone who honestly thinks it was a government conspiracy got a hold of some bad grass in Vietnam. REAL bad. Like why would Jim Jones bust in people's houses for information on them to use it as proof for his divinity when he could just use his CIA buddies to pull out some info from the DMV or other government records. Also why would Government have a drug addict preform this test instead of a trained sober CIA operative who could better manage his flock who were constantly trying to escape. The square block Bo is trying to fit in the round hole just ain't gonna happen.
| newclear wrote: | I haven't personally witnessed David Miscavage beating up staff. At the big PR events, he presents himself as the savior of "standard tech" Scientology. If he were actually breaking the law (assault and battery etc.) so many times, obviously someone would have pressed charges.
I invoke Occam's razor. It is far more likely that the people who are saying these things are simply jealous and disgruntled. I have known several women who pressed charges when their husbands hit them, so this is a normal thing to do in such a situation. This is a much simpler explanation for these reports, so Occam's razor says I shouldn't believe that David Miscavage beats people up.
Frankly, I find the use of the term "Occam's razor" usually used as a substitute for investigation. |
If your definition of Occam's razor is the simplest answer is most likely the right one instead of the real Occam's razor that states "The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory." You would have to assume anyone who speaks out against DM for assaulting them are liars, and breaking Occam's Razor.
The case is such that the argument for Jonestown requires a laundry list of assumptions to be made before we can even venture into the "proof."
The record of Jim Jones speaks as clear as day; once you start venturing into conspiracy theory land is when you leave mountains of emperical evidence that discredit them.
_________________
Ewwwah!
http://jimjesus.com
(∃x∈S:φ(x))→ (∀x∈S:φ(x)) = Scientology logic |
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Sea Horse
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 1965
Location: Clearwater Florida USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:52 am Post subject:
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| newclear wrote: | | I haven't personally witnessed David Miscavage beating up staff. At the big PR events, he presents himself as the savior of "standard tech" Scientology. If he were actually breaking the law (assault and battery etc.) so many times, obviously someone would have pressed charges. ... It is far more likely that the people who are saying these things are simply jealous and disgruntled. I have known several women who pressed charges when their husbands hit them, so this is a normal thing to do in such a situation. |
Many people, including myself, tried to just "fade away" from Scientology, rather than go out with a bang. By the time someone had left Scientology and wakes up that it's a cult and one was abused, the statute of limitations has run out. Most people who were hit by David Miscavige didn't wake up until it was too late to press charges -- such is the tight hold the mind control has on one.
And bullshit! about what you try to say about the women who press charges on their husbands for hitting them. For every woman who presses charges, there are many more who remain in their abusive situation and DENY abuse when asked. Some others even get killed before they "report" the situation.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Spousal+abuse
| Quote: | | domestic violence n. the continuing crime and problem of the physical beating of a wife, girlfriend or children, usually by the woman's male partner (although may be female violence against a male). It is now recognized as an anti-social mental illness. Sometimes a woman's dependence, low self-esteem, and fear of leaving cause her to endure this conduct or fail to protect a child. Prosecutors and police often face the problem that a battered woman will not press charges due to fear, intimidation and misplaced "love." Increasingly domestic violence is attracting the sympathetic attention of law enforcement, the courts, and community services, including shelters and protection for those in danger. |
http://www.mukto-mona.com/women/statistics_on_violence.htm
| Quote: | | MURDER. Every day four women die in this country as a result of domestic violence, the euphemism for murders and assaults by husbands and boyfriends. That's approximately 1,400 women a year, according to the FBI. The number of women who have been murdered by their intimate partners is greater than the number of soldiers killed in the Vietnam War. |
| Quote: | | BATTERING. Although only 572,000 reports of assault by intimates are officially reported to federal officials each year, the most conservative estimates indicate two to four million women of all races and classes are battered each year. At least 170,000 of those violent incidents are serious enough to require hospitalization, emergency room care or a doctor's attention. |
| Quote: | | SEXUAL ASSAULT. Every year approximately 132,000 women report that they have been victims of rape or attempted rape, and more than half of them knew their attackers. It's estimated that two to six times that many women are raped, but do not report it. Every year 1.2 million women are forcibly raped by their current or former male partners, some more than once. |
_________________
We are the architects of our own lives. Design and build the life you want. |
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SuzanneMarie
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 2949
Location: Pacific Northwest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:35 am Post subject:
Details about Survivors of Jonestown
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| Sea Horse wrote: | | Quote: | | Later on, former green beret Lt. Col. Bo Gritz spoke out on Jonestown, claiming that there was not only CIA involvement but also army Special Forces involvement. Gritz claimed that Jonestown was a CIA experiment, the Green Berets were there as standby to guarantee no escapees. According to Gritz, half of the culties were done by the special Coolaide, the other half were done by the Green Berets. |
If this story were true, then how is it that 30 some people escaped death on that day? You think a bunch of scared-to-death, half starved, sleep deprived people with NO special ops or military training could outsmart a bunch of well-armed and trained Green Berets and Special Forces intent on capturing and killing them?
Pshaw! What poppycock. Give the storyteller another drink, pat him on the back, nod your head Yes in agreement, then ignore the drunken boob. |
"Survivors/eyewitnesses
Three high ranking Temple member survivors claim they were given an assignment and thereby escaped death. Brothers Tim and Mike Carter, 30 years old and 20 years old respectively, and Mike Prokes, 31, were given luggage containing $550,000 US currency, $130,000 in Guyanese currency and an envelope, which they were told to deliver to Guyana’s Soviet Embassy, in Georgetown.[136] The envelope contained two passports and three instructional letters, the first of which was to Feodor Timofeyev of the Embassy of the Soviet Union in Guyana, stating:
Dear Comrade Timofeyev,
The following is a letter of instructions regarding all of our assets that we want to leave to the Communist Party of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Enclosed in this letter are letters which instruct the banks to send the cashiers checks to you. I am doing this on behalf of Peoples Temple because we, as communists, want our money to be of benefit for help to oppressed peoples all over the world, or in any way that your decision-making body sees fit.[137][136]
The letters included listed accounts with balances totaling in excess of $7.3 million to be transferred to the Communist Party of the Soviet Union [137][138][139] The Carters and Prokes soon ditched most of the money and were apprehended heading for the Temple boat (Cudjo) at Kaituma.[136] It is unknown how they were supposed to reach Georgetown, 150 miles (240 km) away, since the boat had been sent away by Temple leadership earlier that day.[136]
Just before start of the final meeting in the pavilion, lawyers Charles Garry and Mark Lane were told that the people were angry at them. The lawyers were escorted to a house used to accommodate visitors. According to the lawyers, they talked their way past armed guards and made it to the jungle, before eventually arriving in Port Kaituma.[140] While in the jungle near the settlement, they heard cheering, then gunshots. This observation concurs with the testimony of Clayton, who heard the same sounds as he was sneaking back into Jonestown to retrieve his passport.
Odell Rhodes
Four more people who were intended to be poisoned managed to survive.[136] Grover Davis, 79, who was hearing impaired, missed the announcement to assemble on the loudspeaker, lay down in a ditch and pretended to be dead.[141][142] Hyacinth Thrash, 76, slept through the suicide drills and awoke to find her sister and friends dead.[142][141] Odell Rhodes, 36, a Jonestown teacher and craftsman, volunteered to fetch a stethoscope and hid under a building.[130] Stanley Clayton, 25, a kitchenworker and cousin of Huey Newton, tricked security guards and ran into the jungle.[131]
The sheer scale of the event, as well as Jones' socialist leanings, led some to suggest CIA involvement,[143] though the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence investigated the Jonestown mass suicide and announced that there was no evidence of CIA involvement at Jonestown.[144]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
Evading killers by playing dead and sleeping in and hiding under buildings and running off into the jungle did work in a few cases.
But who are the thirty survivors you mention? Did they leave before the massacre began? |
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Benny's Friend
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 1461
Location: AKA Resistance is Fultile / AKA Patricia Curtis
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:41 am Post subject:
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| SuzanneMarie's are here. Imagine that. |
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SuzanneMarie
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 2949
Location: Pacific Northwest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:49 am Post subject:
Re: Details about Survivors of Jonestown
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| SuzanneMarie wrote: | | Sea Horse wrote: | | Quote: | | Later on, former green beret Lt. Col. Bo Gritz spoke out on Jonestown, claiming that there was not only CIA involvement but also army Special Forces involvement. Gritz claimed that Jonestown was a CIA experiment, the Green Berets were there as standby to guarantee no escapees. According to Gritz, half of the culties were done by the special Coolaide, the other half were done by the Green Berets. |
If this story were true, then how is it that 30 some people escaped death on that day? You think a bunch of scared-to-death, half starved, sleep deprived people with NO special ops or military training could outsmart a bunch of well-armed and trained Green Berets and Special Forces intent on capturing and killing them?
Pshaw! What poppycock. Give the storyteller another drink, pat him on the back, nod your head Yes in agreement, then ignore the drunken boob. |
"Survivors/eyewitnesses
Three high ranking Temple member survivors claim they were given an assignment and thereby escaped death. Brothers Tim and Mike Carter, 30 years old and 20 years old respectively, and Mike Prokes, 31, were given luggage containing $550,000 US currency, $130,000 in Guyanese currency and an envelope, which they were told to deliver to Guyana’s Soviet Embassy, in Georgetown.[136] The envelope contained two passports and three instructional letters, the first of which was to Feodor Timofeyev of the Embassy of the Soviet Union in Guyana, stating:
Dear Comrade Timofeyev,
The following is a letter of instructions regarding all of our assets that we want to leave to the Communist Party of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Enclosed in this letter are letters which instruct the banks to send the cashiers checks to you. I am doing this on behalf of Peoples Temple because we, as communists, want our money to be of benefit for help to oppressed peoples all over the world, or in any way that your decision-making body sees fit.[137][136]
The letters included listed accounts with balances totaling in excess of $7.3 million to be transferred to the Communist Party of the Soviet Union [137][138][139] The Carters and Prokes soon ditched most of the money and were apprehended heading for the Temple boat (Cudjo) at Kaituma.[136] It is unknown how they were supposed to reach Georgetown, 150 miles (240 km) away, since the boat had been sent away by Temple leadership earlier that day.[136]
Just before start of the final meeting in the pavilion, lawyers Charles Garry and Mark Lane were told that the people were angry at them. The lawyers were escorted to a house used to accommodate visitors. According to the lawyers, they talked their way past armed guards and made it to the jungle, before eventually arriving in Port Kaituma.[140] While in the jungle near the settlement, they heard cheering, then gunshots. This observation concurs with the testimony of Clayton, who heard the same sounds as he was sneaking back into Jonestown to retrieve his passport.
Odell Rhodes
Four more people who were intended to be poisoned managed to survive.[136] Grover Davis, 79, who was hearing impaired, missed the announcement to assemble on the loudspeaker, lay down in a ditch and pretended to be dead.[141][142] Hyacinth Thrash, 76, slept through the suicide drills and awoke to find her sister and friends dead.[142][141] Odell Rhodes, 36, a Jonestown teacher and craftsman, volunteered to fetch a stethoscope and hid under a building.[130] Stanley Clayton, 25, a kitchenworker and cousin of Huey Newton, tricked security guards and ran into the jungle.[131]
The sheer scale of the event, as well as Jones' socialist leanings, led some to suggest CIA involvement,[143] though the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence investigated the Jonestown mass suicide and announced that there was no evidence of CIA involvement at Jonestown.[144]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
Evading killers by playing dead and sleeping in and hiding under buildings and running off into the jungle did work in a few cases.
But who are the thirty survivors you mention? Did they leave before the massacre began? |
It's OK, I found a link:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/12/jonestown.survivors/index.html
Some of the survivors walked 30 miles through the jungle.
Some were at the airport waiting for a plane and survived the shootings there.
A few played dead or hid themselves. |
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spacecootie
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 1130
Location: Thunderdome
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:01 am Post subject:
Re: Occam Schmoccam
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| RedPill wrote: | | The Clinton body count was well over two dozen. |
Telling sentence is telling. The folks who talk about the supposed Clinton body count never bother to note that Dubya's body count is over four thousand and growing. |
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SuzanneMarie
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 2949
Location: Pacific Northwest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:03 am Post subject:
Re: Jonestown--An Alternate View
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| machwon wrote: |
| SuzanneMarie wrote: | | Why was Buford questioned about it in secret? |
Police usually down broadcast their questionings on the mega-tron over Time Square. derp. |
The House Foreign Affairs Committee questioned Buford and then sealed the record.
Moron. |
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SuzanneMarie
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 2949
Location: Pacific Northwest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:04 am Post subject:
Re: Occam Schmoccam
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| spacecootie wrote: | | RedPill wrote: | | The Clinton body count was well over two dozen. |
Telling sentence is telling. The folks who talk about the supposed Clinton body count never bother to note that Dubya's body count is over four thousand and growing. |
You're not even counting all the people executed in Texas when he was governor, either. |
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Benny's Friend
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 1461
Location: AKA Resistance is Fultile / AKA Patricia Curtis
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:10 am Post subject:
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Clearly this thread has touched a nerve.
Just so we remember what started this thing:
| tom_ wrote: | CNN has a special tonight recounting the tragedies in the South American jungles 30 years ago.
Jim Jones' Peoples Temple
continues to bare great significance in the history of the cult awareness community. In particular how mind control works in extreme examples.
Congressman Leo J. Ryan from California died down there, attempting to investigate the cult.
Just weeks before his murder, he noted his grave concerns of yet another disturbing cult -- Scientology.
Stay tuned on CNN tonight.
tp |
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