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SME

Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 188
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject:
Cruise says only scientologists can handle emergencies
Subject description: An old story of death because of this view
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Recently I saw that Tom Cruise video again where re ranted on about scientology and said that only scientologists could help at accidents and things like that. I also just read a thread on clambake about “ethics” in organized scientology and how that developed and was applied.
In September 1973 I started on staff at AOLA (Advanced Organization of Los Angeles) as a lowly “HGC Admin” (Hubbard Guidance Center Administrator) which meant I was the guy who did the low level work to ensure paying scientology public got into and out of session in the HGC by ensuring they arrived on time, the auditors had supplies, the rooms were clean, etc. When someone arrived for their scheduled session I would have them take a seat and would go get his or her auditor to come out and take that person into session.
At that time I was just above “raw meat”, had no authority in scientology, no auditing and had only done an introductory course. I had just quit college to join staff at AOLA.
I got a call that a public named Hans Benekee (I do not know how to spell his last name but as I recall it sounds like “Ben a key”) was coming to the HGC and when he arrived make sure he got into session ASAP.
Hans arrived at the HGC, I greeted him and had him take a seat and immediately went off to get his auditor in the back. I came out with the auditor only to find Hans having convulsions on the couch and frothing at the mouth. It was shocking as only a minute or so before he calmly walked up to the HGC window and told me he was there for his session.
Here’s the part of this story that tells what Tom Cruise meant when he said only scientologists could handle it. Immediately that auditor, another auditor and the boss of the auditors known as the Director of Processing stood in front of the couch around the convulsing Hans and were postulating that he get better (yes that is what they said later). One of them, his auditor, was giving verbal commands to Hans and to this day I will never forget it. She ordered him sternly “you get back into that body”.
Meanwhile Hans was dying, froth over almost all of the lower half of his face and he had stopped convulsing showing almost zero signs of life if any. All this happened maybe over a period of two minutes as I as the new guy watched the highly respected auditors “handle” the situation. Finally I could not stand it and I pushed myself through the auditors, got down on my knees, quickly wiped the froth from his face, looked for anything in his mouth and frantically gave him artificial respiration trying to save his life. I was not successful and quickly realized I was giving it to a dead man but still tried. I did everything I knew to try to save him but was too late. Maybe 10 minutes later (am not sure on the time) an ambulance arrived, took over and could not revive him.
Hans Benekee was dead.
Hans had died right there in the HGC with top scientology auditors all around him doing what Tom Cruise ranted about only scientologists could do to help. To this day I believe that if any decent medical practitioner were there Hans would have lived. I also believe that if I had not stood there as the newbee letting the auditors try to handle him with their version of “scientology”, if I realized they were full of it and I just jumped in and tried to revive him in the first few seconds that I may have saved his life.
I’ll never know but I guess I just wanted to give an informed opinion of just how crazy Cruise really was when he said only scientologists could help in such an emergency.
BTW, ten of us on AOLA staff were Comm Eved for his death and it was brutal. It included me, the auditors, the main technical staff and qual staff over Hans at AOLA including the head of the Tech Division “Kay Boland/Mamanakas (spelling?). We were about to be creamed when Hubbard sent a telex ordering the comm eve stopped as we “were upstat”. That also shows you just how much money can have to do with justice in organized scientology. All was cancelled and Hubbard even wrote a little process for us “AOLA 10” to do to help handle the “wrong indications” as we never should have had harsh justice applied to us when our stats were so up, even though someone died.
The Comm Eve never would have resulted in the real causes being found or anything else good coming from this in the future. I know this as it was “finding” that Hans died because he had not completed OT II and saw the OT III Materials. He was already showing signs of a medical problem but it was attributed to the above. OMG! Yet another person with an obvious medical condition is left untreated and dies trying to handle everything with the OT levels.
So there is another story, if old, of death in the hands of unqualified people trying to practice medicine and/or psychology.
I know I tried my best to save Hans but it was not enough. I do regret that I was unwittingly a believer in and part of a group that could let something like this happen.
Tom Cruise if somehow you ever read this please know how completely wrong your statement is that only scientologists can help in such a situation. Many have died just because of that belief as unqualified people in organized scientology try to practice medicine/psychology. You have been promoting a dangerous cult and its highly dangerous practices. Yet there is still time for you to join others out here trying to do something about it now.
IMHO
Larry Brennan _________________ My blog: http://larrybren.blogspot.com/
”Lay gentle
Magic baby
Everything’s alright
The pain is gone
There’s naught to fear
Let my arms be your world tonight”.
- from the poem "Birth of a Faery"
Last edited by SME on Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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An0nand0n

Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 176
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject:
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Thanks for sharing that. Illustrates perfectly the cults casual disregard for anything but its own money and image. I hope you've got it on public record somewhere.
| Quote: | | I also believe that if I had not stood there as the newbee letting the auditors try to handle him with their version of “scientology”, if I realized they were full of it and I just jumped in and tried to revive him in the first few seconds that I may have saved his life. |
Er, so you were meant to turn against people who outranked you in a system where rank is everything and administer tech that you were utterly convinced was inferior to what they were using? I think you did damn well intervening at all. Real life 1st aid=! what you see on casualty/ER. Once the heart stops there's at best a 50/50 chance of starting it again. CPR can keep the blood oxygenated so the paramedics have a better chance when they arrive, that's all. You showed real strength and real compassion, did the best you could, and it's certainly not your fault he died. _________________ Epic Nose Guy stands up for his rights: http://youtube.com/watch?v=d4lGYogQHIg
Ex Sea Org member (London) speaks out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaoHISt7sNc
Ceiling Scilon is watching you enturbulate: http://youtube.com/watch?v=61d6iAY6Dzs |
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Hubbard's Mushroom
Joined: 25 Mar 2004 Posts: 8290
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject:
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++++++++++Sacred Cult scripture+++++++++++++++
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 8 APRIL 1988
Remimeo Tech/Qual
THE "BRING BACK TO LIFE" ASSIST
Refs:
Tape: 5212C03 PDC-9 "Anatomy of Processsing-Energy Phenomena/Sensation"
Tape: 7204C07 "Illness Breakthrough"
LRH Technical Training Film number TR 10, "Assists"
(The data contained in this HCOB is not to be construed
as a recommendation of medical treatment or medication.
This issue does not supplant, nor is it intended to dissuade,
anyone from seeking competent medical attention for any
physical condition. The method given in this issue is
delivered by anyone on his own responsibility.)
DOING A BUNK
"Doing a bunk" is an English slang term meaning "running
away or deserting."
In our terminology it means that a person shoots out of his
head. He actually abandons the body, i.e., the being is really
gone.
There is a difference between a thetan leaving the body
and a thetan going unconscious. When a person is
unconscious, he will still be breathing and will have a pulse.
But when a person has left, pulse and breath may stop.
Someone who has done a bunk must be handled within
three to four minutes. A maximum amount of time would
be eight minutes, but by this time physical damage will
probably have occurred.
An assist can be done to bring the person back to life.
Anyone attempting such a handling must act fast.
COMMUNICATION LINE
When someone has done a bunk, there is still a
communication line to the body. There is always a
communication line to the body because the thetan is tuned
up to the wavelength of the ridges of that body. Therefore,
even if the thetan is six universes away, he can still
communicate through the body.
ASSIST
If a person has done a bunk, you can simply order him to
come back and bring the body to life. The commands are
addressed to the person and should be given in a tone
of authority.
It would be as simple as commanding, "Come back and
bring this body to life!" Or ordering the person, "Come
back here and pick up your body! At once! Pick it up! I
order you! Right now!"
You just keep commanding him with Tone 40. He is still
around and can be gotten to come back again.
There is another means of bringing a person back to life.
You can coax the person back. In one case, an auditor
pleaded along the lines that the person should remember
her husband, should think of her children, and so on, all
with no response. He couldn't get her to pick up the body
at all. Finally, the auditor said, "Think of your poor
auditor!" at which point she came back and brought the
body to life.
Once you have brought the person back to life, that is the
end of this assist action. Of course, if it is needed, the
person should be fully handled with medical treatment
and further assist actions to make him completely well.
L. RON HUBBARD
Founder
Compilation assisted by LRH Technical Research and
Compilations
Hubbard, L. Ron. The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and
Scientology. 1991 ed. Vol. XIII. 18 vols. Los Angeles:
Bridge Publications, Inc., 1988.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ |
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Hubbard's Mushroom
Joined: 25 Mar 2004 Posts: 8290
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject:
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++++++++++++++Sacred Cult Scripture+++++++++++
Process sensation when you’re trying to break those internal
lines, desire for sensation, and remember to process desire
for sensation when you’re… when you have your thetan
snapping into heads. That’s desire and thirst for sensation -
must have is what’s got him there - so he’s riding on that
postulate, which is the only reason he’d snap into a head.
He never knew that before. He wants to get something out
of this body so the second something goes wrong with
energy, he’ll snap in. Before he can undo anything he’s
doing and remember that the thetan who shifts around
inside his head is trying to keep from having a sensation.
He gets flows go… start going past him, and the flows go
past him. He’s trying to keep from being afraid. He’s trying
to hold on. He’s gone to the point now, and oddly enough
this person seldom gets any pleasant sensations in the
body anymore.
He’s trying to hold on, he slips, he’s skidding around. And
he hasn’t got any time to work those communication lines
to areas of sensation. He’s just trying to stay there, that’s
all. That’s idiotic as the devil because the one thing you
want him to do is get someplace else. And really the one
thing he basically wants to do is go someplace else, and
yet every action he takes is an action to hold on to where
he is.
Sometimes you start to bust this up, and it happens very
fast, that thetan will do a bunk, to use a British
colloquialism, he will do a bunk. You say, "All right," to this
pleasant girl and she’s sitting there and everything’s fine.
And, "Yeah, all right, now you be a foot back of your head,
just be two feet back of your head."
"Nuooong!" and the body goes collapse.
You say, "Hey." No answer, the heart’s still beating, the
lungs are still breathing ‘cause the GE runs those, but the
thetan he’s done a bunk.
She is just passing Arcturus. You say, "Hey." One of them
… one very good gag that went on and on and the auditor
coaxing her - "Think of your family. Why don’t you come
back?" - Trying to get to reassume responsibility for the
body, you see. "Think of your family, uh… think of this,
think of that, think of something else," and so on.
And nothing happened and that body was just sitting there
like a lump of clay, you see, completely flopped. No
controls on it, nothing on it at all but sure there’s a
communication line. There always is a communication line
to the body because it’s tuned up on wave lengths.
Don’t look for an actual cable between the body and the
thetan - he’s all tuned up to the wave length of the ridges
of this body. Of course, he could talk through it if he were
six universes away. That’s… that’s he’s just tuned up to
that wave length. There’s no such thing as space. All right.
Now… uh… you’ve got… you’ve got a thetan there who is
on her way. Finally this guy says, "Well, think of your poor
auditor." And she came back. And so there… there is the
preclear doing the bunk.
What happened there is it just had never occurred to this
preclear before that you could do it all the way. This
preclear had fooled around with astral walking and a lot of
other things which are not similar to this. And you could do
it all the way and there was all of you there and you were
gone and on your way and it was so nice to get off of the
surface of Earth and get on your way and she didn’t have
any idea where she was going. It was just she was on her
way. She was doing a bunk.
So if somebody does a bunk on you, coax them back. They
seldom leave dead bodies on your hands.
Well, what happened is… is this preclear is suddenly
shedding all his responsibilities. Once in a while you get that
case. Don’t let it stop your own heart - they’re… they’re
quite startling. Uh… sometimes they get out and they don’t
know how to make the body handle anymore.
Well, get them to pick up a finger and drop the finger. Pick
up a hand and drop the hand and move the hands around.
And move the head around. They say, "Aw, I can run that
thing, to hell with it."
Okay, let’s take a break.
(TAPE ENDS)
— L. Ron Hubbard
Lecture 3 Dec 1952: PDC 09 Anatomy of Processing –
Energy Phenomena/Sensation
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ |
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Hubbard's Mushroom
Joined: 25 Mar 2004 Posts: 8290
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject:
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+++++++++++++Sacred Cult Scripture+++++++++++
The funniest tale of all of that is, we’ve never had a
catastrophe with it. But the funniest tale of all of that is the
auditor who all of a sudden had a pc—the English slang
term was “do a bunk”, which meant run away or desert—
and they started calling this “do a bunk”. Actually, this
auditor had a pc and the pc did a bunk. Well, when they
really do a bunk, boy they do a bunk.
They’re going past Arcturus, as I’ve said before, at 90
miles an hour, or two light years a second, and really did
a bunk. When they do that the whole body collapses and
their arms will hang down and they look like an old rag
doll that somebody has just grabbed half the stuffing’s
out of.
They really Bzuhhhh, that’s it. They don’t roll up on the
floor in a prenatal or something like that. They just go.
That’s it, you know, boom.
And this auditor talked and talked because they’re still
in dim communication, you see. And he talked and talked
to her—”Think of your husband, think of your children,
think of . . .” and so on and he talked and talked to her.
He couldn’t get her to come back and pick up the body at
all. Till all of a sudden he happened to think, “Think of your
poor auditor,” and she came back and picked up the body.
I was just a couple of minutes late. State cops were in my
way, but a Negro had been drowned and I was just . . .
They were in my road to a point where I couldn’t get to the
guy and tell him to pick up the body again, where he would
have, don’t you see. And they were busy resuscitating him
and that was the end of that. It was too late. He really had
done a bunk. He finished.
We’ve actually brought little kids back to life and that sort
of thing—just tell them “pick up the body,” you know.
Now, you just tell them with tone 40, just say it around
the vicinity.
They’re still around. And back they come again.
As a matter of fact, Washington, DC. got very mad at a
Scientologist one time. He decided he was going to do a
bunk and he was, going to drop the body and he did. He
just had an unpleasant afternoon with IRS, and he came
back and he just kicked the bucket. That was it, colder
than ice and he just wouldn’t pick up the body again. And
they told him and they told him and they told him and he
wouldn’t. That was it. He, by the way, has shown up again
calling for his favorite cigars at two years old.
But anyhow, the upshot of all of this is, is this opens
door to a fabulous amount of action on your part which will
sometimes look very magical, because remedy of
havingness in various ways.
— L. Ron Hubbard
Lecture 7 April 1972: Illness Breakthrough
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ |
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Gumbythetruth

Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 1940 Location: Look over your shoulder!
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:09 pm Post subject:
Re: Cruise says only scientologists can handle emergencies
Subject description: An old story of death because of this view
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| SME wrote: | Recently I saw that Tom Cruise video again where re ranted on about scientology and said that only scientologists could help at accidents and things like that. I also just read a thread on clambake about “ethics” in organized scientology and how that developed and was applied.
In September 1973 I started on staff at AOLA (Advanced Organization of Los Angeles) as a lowly “HGC Admin” (Hubbard Guidance Center Administrator) which meant I was the guy who did the low level work to ensure paying scientology public got into and out of session in the HGC by ensuring they arrived on time, the auditors had supplies, the rooms were clean, etc. When someone arrived for their scheduled session I would have them take a seat and would go get his or her auditor to come out and take that person into session.
At that time I was just above “raw meat”, had no authority in scientology, no auditing and had only done an introductory course. I had just quit college to join staff at AOLA.
I got a call that a public named Hans Benekee (I do not know how to spell his last name but as I recall it sounds like “Ben a key”) was coming to the HGC and when he arrived make sure he got into session ASAP.
Hans arrived at the HGC, I greeted him and had him take a seat and immediately went off to get his auditor in the back. I came out with the auditor only to find Hans having convulsions on the couch and frothing at the mouth. It was shocking as only a minute or so before he calmly walked up to the HGC window and told me he was there for his session.
Here’s the part of this story that tells what Tom Cruise meant when he said only scientologists could handle it. Immediately that auditor, another auditor and the boss of the auditors known as the Director of Processing stood in front of the couch around the convulsing Hans and were postulating that he get better (yes that is what they said later). One of them, his auditor, was giving verbal commands to Hans and to this day I will never forget it. She ordered him sternly “you get back into that body”.
Meanwhile Hans was dying, froth over almost all of the lower half of his face and he had stopped convulsing showing almost zero signs of life if any. All this happened maybe over a period of two minutes as I as the new guy watched the highly respected auditors “handle” the situation. Finally I could not stand it and I pushed myself through the auditors, got down on my knees, quickly wiped the froth from his face, looked for anything in his mouth and frantically gave him artificial respiration trying to say his life. I was not successful and quickly realized I was giving it to a dead man but still tried. I did everything I knew to try to save him but was too late. Maybe 10 minutes later (am not sure on the time) an ambulance arrived, took over and could not revive him.
Hans Benekee was dead.
Hans had died right there in the HGC with top scientology auditors all around him doing what Tom Cruise ranted about only scientologists could do to help. To this day I believe that if any decent medical practitioner were there Hans would have lived. I also believe that if I had not stood there as the newbee letting the auditors try to handle him with their version of “scientology”, if I realized they were full of it and I just jumped in and tried to revive him in the first few seconds that I may have saved his life.
I’ll never know but I guess I just wanted to give an informed opinion of just how crazy Cruise really was when he said only scientologists could help in such an emergency.
BTW, ten of us on AOLA staff were Comm Eved for his death and it was brutal. It included me, the auditors, the main technical staff and qual staff over Hans at AOLA including the head of the Tech Division “Kay Boland/Mamanakas (spelling?). We were about to be creamed when Hubbard sent a telex ordering the comm eve stopped as we “were upstat”. That also shows you just how much money can have to do with justice in organized scientology. All was cancelled and Hubbard even wrote a little process for us “AOLA 10” to do to help handle the “wrong indications” as we never should have had harsh justice applied to us when our stats were so up, even though someone died.
The Comm Eve never would have resulted in the real causes being found or anything else good coming from this in the future. I know this as it was “finding” that Hans died because he had not completed OT II and saw the OT III Materials. He was already showing signs of a medical problem but it was attributed to the above. OMG! Yet another person with an obvious medical condition is left untreated and dies trying to handle everything with the OT levels.
So there is another story, if old, of death in the hands of unqualified people trying to practice medicine and/or psychology.
I know I tried my best to save Hans but it was not enough. I do regret that I was unwittingly a believer in and part of a group that could let something like this happen.
Tom Cruise if somehow you ever read this please know how completely wrong your statement is that only scientologists can help in such a situation. Many have died just because of that belief as unqualified people in organized scientology try to practice medicine/psychology. You have been promoting a dangerous cult and its highly dangerous practices. Yet there is still time for you to join others out here trying to do something about it now.
IMHO
Larry Brennan | This is another example of WHY i do not want scientology in my community or country. Thank you so much Larry for sharing this historical slice of scientology. Now i have a question for you. After this experience how could you continue to be a part of or support scientology? For the life of me ,i can't understand this. As i equate scientology with mans most evil acts, how did you justify your continued KSW mind set at the time? _________________ Gumby the POLY WOG, a MULTI TASKING critic with Amphibian capabilities.
Member, Wogs against this sort of thing!
WWP is ?
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php |
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Peter Schilte

Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 1729 Location: Vierlingsbeek (Netherlands)
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Cruise says only scientologists can handle emergencies
Subject description: An old story of death because of this view
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| SME wrote: | Recently I saw that Tom Cruise video again where re ranted on about scientology and said that only scientologists could help at accidents and things like that. I also just read a thread on clambake about “ethics” in organized scientology and how that developed and was applied.
In September 1973 I started on staff at AOLA (Advanced Organization of Los Angeles) as a lowly “HGC Admin” (Hubbard Guidance Center Administrator) which meant I was the guy who did the low level work to ensure paying scientology public got into and out of session in the HGC by ensuring they arrived on time, the auditors had supplies, the rooms were clean, etc. When someone arrived for their scheduled session I would have them take a seat and would go get his or her auditor to come out and take that person into session.
At that time I was just above “raw meat”, had no authority in scientology, no auditing and had only done an introductory course. I had just quit college to join staff at AOLA.
I got a call that a public named Hans Benekee (I do not know how to spell his last name but as I recall it sounds like “Ben a key”) was coming to the HGC and when he arrived make sure he got into session ASAP.
Hans arrived at the HGC, I greeted him and had him take a seat and immediately went off to get his auditor in the back. I came out with the auditor only to find Hans having convulsions on the couch and frothing at the mouth. It was shocking as only a minute or so before he calmly walked up to the HGC window and told me he was there for his session.
Here’s the part of this story that tells what Tom Cruise meant when he said only scientologists could handle it. Immediately that auditor, another auditor and the boss of the auditors known as the Director of Processing stood in front of the couch around the convulsing Hans and were postulating that he get better (yes that is what they said later). One of them, his auditor, was giving verbal commands to Hans and to this day I will never forget it. She ordered him sternly “you get back into that body”.
Meanwhile Hans was dying, froth over almost all of the lower half of his face and he had stopped convulsing showing almost zero signs of life if any. All this happened maybe over a period of two minutes as I as the new guy watched the highly respected auditors “handle” the situation. Finally I could not stand it and I pushed myself through the auditors, got down on my knees, quickly wiped the froth from his face, looked for anything in his mouth and frantically gave him artificial respiration trying to say his life. I was not successful and quickly realized I was giving it to a dead man but still tried. I did everything I knew to try to save him but was too late. Maybe 10 minutes later (am not sure on the time) an ambulance arrived, took over and could not revive him.
Hans Benekee was dead.
Hans had died right there in the HGC with top scientology auditors all around him doing what Tom Cruise ranted about only scientologists could do to help. To this day I believe that if any decent medical practitioner were there Hans would have lived. I also believe that if I had not stood there as the newbee letting the auditors try to handle him with their version of “scientology”, if I realized they were full of it and I just jumped in and tried to revive him in the first few seconds that I may have saved his life.
I’ll never know but I guess I just wanted to give an informed opinion of just how crazy Cruise really was when he said only scientologists could help in such an emergency.
BTW, ten of us on AOLA staff were Comm Eved for his death and it was brutal. It included me, the auditors, the main technical staff and qual staff over Hans at AOLA including the head of the Tech Division “Kay Boland/Mamanakas (spelling?). We were about to be creamed when Hubbard sent a telex ordering the comm eve stopped as we “were upstat”. That also shows you just how much money can have to do with justice in organized scientology. All was cancelled and Hubbard even wrote a little process for us “AOLA 10” to do to help handle the “wrong indications” as we never should have had harsh justice applied to us when our stats were so up, even though someone died.
The Comm Eve never would have resulted in the real causes being found or anything else good coming from this in the future. I know this as it was “finding” that Hans died because he had not completed OT II and saw the OT III Materials. He was already showing signs of a medical problem but it was attributed to the above. OMG! Yet another person with an obvious medical condition is left untreated and dies trying to handle everything with the OT levels.
So there is another story, if old, of death in the hands of unqualified people trying to practice medicine and/or psychology.
I know I tried my best to save Hans but it was not enough. I do regret that I was unwittingly a believer in and part of a group that could let something like this happen.
Tom Cruise if somehow you ever read this please know how completely wrong your statement is that only scientologists can help in such a situation. Many have died just because of that belief as unqualified people in organized scientology try to practice medicine/psychology. You have been promoting a dangerous cult and its highly dangerous practices. Yet there is still time for you to join others out here trying to do something about it now.
IMHO
Larry Brennan |
AINAL, not even American citizen.
But isn't this a criminal act? Watching someone die and just standing there, watching it and doing nothing to try to save him?
You did what you could, Larry, in the given circumstances, so this is not directed at you, but at the others, those who outranked you.
Peter _________________ "THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM."
- L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.scamofscientology.nl |
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Hubbard's Mushroom
Joined: 25 Mar 2004 Posts: 8290
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject:
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| "we’ve never had a catastrophe with it." L. Ron Hubbard |
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escapee
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 67
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject:
medical malpracticioners
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Larry - thanks a lot for that story. You did your best. It took courage to step in when others of higher rank were standing there 'postulating'.
When I did the Purif at ASHO, one guy got cancer. He was told that the Purif had keyed it in and since he would have gotten it sooner or later the best thing to do was to continue on with the process, which he did. He died, of course.
An ex-StL staff member was auditing in LA and her PC was killed in a mo-ped accident on one of the LA freeway on-ramps. The finding was that the PC had been left unflat on a process and the auditor went through some Qual clean-up. But a person had died.
I got up to 2800 mgs of niacin during the two months of Purif - an amount that could have seriously damaged my liver. Fortunately, it didn't. What ever made LRH think he knew more than medical people - to create the Purif and subjecting trusting people to taking huge amounts of vitamins? He had no medical training. Yes, there were good outcomes, but it would be interesting to take a survey of everyone who did that program to find out the results, short-term and long-term.
Another St Louis guy, having recently finished OT VII, I believe, was in an auto accident and lost both of his legs. How does that fit in with the EP - something close to 'cause over life' or some other nonsense?
No one is cause over life. We are not gods. We can only do the best we can in any situation IF we are clear-headed, aware of what is going on around us, and willing to take responsibility. |
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SME

Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 188
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Cruise says only scientologists can handle emergencies
Subject description: An old story of death because of this view
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This is another example of WHY i do not want scientology in my community or country. Thank you so much Larry for sharing this historical slice of scientology. Now i have a question for you. After this experience how could you continue to be a part of or support scientology? For the life of me ,i can't understand this. As i equate scientology with mans most evil acts, how did you justify your continued KSW mind set at the time?[/quote]
Hey Gumby. This is an easy question to look at now that I am 100% out of scientology. Then I was just into it. I am sure that I did not "blame" those auditors at that first moment and I thought they were trying to help. And I certainly did not blame Hubbard. I thought they knew what they were doing as I was a believer. I guess just common sense took over after a couple of minutes of the above, although too late, when I just pushed my way past them to try to save Hans.
I still believed in Hubbard and I shortly later bought into the whole line that Hans had seen OT III materials too early as the cause for his death. I know that is ridiculous now but it was not ridiculous to me at the time.
One can look back at the insanity for what it is clearly once they are really out. But when in, it is not so easy. A smarter person than I may have worked it all out then and there as you suggest perhaps I should have. But I was not that smart.
Hey Gumby I joined organized scientology because I wanted to help others and be helped in return. Despite the fact that I ended up being in very high ranks both with the GO and SO, I never abused anyone, beat anyone, spit on anyone, busted anyone, RPFed anyone, used litigation to harass, hired a PI to harass anyone, used GO/OSA intel operatives to commit crimes, etc. Despite orders from Hubbard himself I refused to spit on anyone. I also walked out on the only gang bang sec check I saw set up by Miscavige's people as I considered it wrong or abusive even though it was a very "light" one with two people compared to many others. Plus I never actually hated the many "enemies" with whom I had to deal (IRS, Omar Garrison, "squirrels", Michael Flynn's representative, etc., etc)
And I got news for you. I believe that I was more of a representative of the views of the average GO/SO member than Miscavige and his goons who carry out the above are. Most staff in my experience were decent people who just would not do such things.
However, speaking for myself and no other ex staff, I also realize how much bullshit and lies I bought from Hubbard and organized scientology. What is clear now was not clear then. I also realize now that in an attempt to support Hubbard I helped empower an even worse madman (Miscavige) by working out a cloaking and structure for him that he was incapable of working out for himself. At the time I thought we were helping the one true hope for mankind (Hubbard and through him organized scientology) and at the time I did not predict the huge human rights abuses that would come from my work.
Although unwittingly, I also realize that by just being part of organized scientology by way of being staff or as a public giving them money I have contributed to abuses and the like.
But then again that is why I fight now. And it is also why you will almost never see me pick on scientology staff unless they were really abusive of others. I know that most of them are decent people who do not try to hurt others. Yes, they as an organization must be stopped but that doesn't mean I have to hate them or ridicule them. Miscavige though is another story. And so are others out there hurting people in Miscavige's/Hubbard's name. Thus I speak out about Miscavige.
Anyway Gumby there you have it. That's my best shot at explaining it to you from my perspective. I do not wish to nor feel a need to have to try to "justify" this any more than this attempt to explain it as best I can from my current perspective.
Too many other actually important or fun things to cover:)
Wishing you the best,
Larry _________________ My blog: http://larrybren.blogspot.com/
”Lay gentle
Magic baby
Everything’s alright
The pain is gone
There’s naught to fear
Let my arms be your world tonight”.
- from the poem "Birth of a Faery" |
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SeeYaBye

Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 300
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:54 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | But isn't this a criminal act? Watching someone die and just standing there, watching it and doing nothing to try to save him?
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Legally speaking, doctors are required to intercede to save a life. Nurses are not. And lay people are not, so it is not illegal. But of course any caring responsible adult will do what they can to save a life, and try to perform CPR even if untrained. To do otherwise is just plain wrong. To believe that the Hubbard method of reviving a dying person is the way to go is just plain tragic. I wonder how many lives have been lost over the years when a bit of basic CPR could have saved the person?
And there are other well known remedies. If someone is having a heart attack or stroke, it is common knowledge that they should take aspirin ( http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4456 ). That can predictably save lives, and has done so many times. Of course a $cientologist is not allowed to take aspirin. How many lives have been lost due to ignoring basic medical science such as this.
My sister died of breast cancer. She had a very aggressive strain of cancer, so it was an ongoing battle for her. She had a very good doctor who aggressively used chemotherapy to keep the cancer at bay, switching often between those that were available. She did a lot of living, traveling with her husband frequently and enjoying life for 13 years following her diagnosis. Had she been a $cientologist, she would not have taken the chemo drugs and would have been dead within a year or so. What a needless expedited loss that would have been.
How many lives have been wasted by people following Hubbard's science fiction "technology" that is based on no science, but rather his own fantasies over-inflated ego? And how many more will be wasted!? _________________ See Ya, Bye! |
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Gumbythetruth

Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 1940 Location: Look over your shoulder!
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:10 pm Post subject:
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Thank you Larry for your insight. It was much appreciated. We all in some form wish to aid or assist our fellow man. Funny how it takes age and maturity to see clearly huh! For some of us our youthful zeal and energies while well intentioned misdirected us.
There is something to be said about growing old. With age we acquire knowledge and experience. Then we glean the best of this knowledge and pass it on to the next generation. That gained knowledge is imho one of the cornerstones of the critic's movement.
Many of us have grown and learned from our experiences. To share the pit falls of these collective experiences is to progress! _________________ Gumby the POLY WOG, a MULTI TASKING critic with Amphibian capabilities.
Member, Wogs against this sort of thing!
WWP is ?
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php |
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Peter Schilte

Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 1729 Location: Vierlingsbeek (Netherlands)
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject:
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| SeeYaBye wrote: | | Quote: | But isn't this a criminal act? Watching someone die and just standing there, watching it and doing nothing to try to save him?
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Legally speaking, doctors are required to intercede to save a life. Nurses are not. And lay people are not, so it is not illegal. But of course any caring responsible adult will do what they can to save a life, and try to perform CPR even if untrained. To do otherwise is just plain wrong. To believe that the Hubbard method of reviving a dying person is the way to go is just plain tragic. I wonder how many lives have been lost over the years when a bit of basic CPR could have saved the person?
And there are other well known remedies. If someone is having a heart attack or stroke, it is common knowledge that they should take aspirin ( http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4456 ). That can predictably save lives, and has done so many times. Of course a $cientologist is not allowed to take aspirin. How many lives have been lost due to ignoring basic medical science such as this.
My sister died of breast cancer. She had a very aggressive strain of cancer, so it was an ongoing battle for her. She had a very good doctor who aggressively used chemotherapy to keep the cancer at bay, switching often between those that were available. She did a lot of living, traveling with her husband frequently and enjoying life for 13 years following her diagnosis. Had she been a $cientologist, she would not have taken the chemo drugs and would have been dead within a year or so. What a needless expedited loss that would have been.
How many lives have been wasted by people following Hubbard's science fiction "technology" that is based on no science, but rather his own fantasies over-inflated ego? And how many more will be wasted!? |
I asked, because in Germany it's a crime. I have to admit I am not sure about my country, Holland.
Peter _________________ "THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM."
- L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.scamofscientology.nl |
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escapee
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 67
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject:
falling for lies
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I totally agree with SME/Larry. I joined because the idea of clearing the planet was exciting. I wanted to be a part of that. Even later on, when conditions were difficult, I stayed in the fight to produce because I have GIVEN MY WORD ... and that was important to me. I did not feel I could walk away from people I liked and who were working just as hard to do their jobs.
Later on, I could not believe what I had tolerated - just having gotten out of four year in the military and served in SEA. Staying on staff and remaining involved after staff cost me my GI Bill (free education), which have gotten me training in a REAL job - something with which I could have made a decent living.
We all heard the BS stories of how Mexico was going to be the first Clear country. HA HA HA HA. That place is still insane and getting worse.
The absolute worst thing about joining the Org, for me, was losing an entire set of friends, people with whom I had worked and known for a number of years. I simply did not have the time to spend with them.
Then, when I left the Org, I lost another set of friends - many of whom are still involved and cannot talk to me for fear of becoming "PTS".
One of my ex-girlfriends, who has been at Renaissance Academy in LA for years, told me as I was leaving LA, that she would not talk to me until I "came to my senses".
I think I came to my senses when I left. Unfortunately, it took too long to happen and there are many wasting their lives in the Org who have not come to their senses.
The majority, as has been said, are good people. They are simply trusting in a technology created by a guy who convinced others to give up any idea of a normal life for "A Piece of Blue Sky".
I would rather keep my head out of the clouds and, as Red Green says, keep my "stick on the ice". |
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dito smith
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 43 Location: US
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject:
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Some enlighten conversion.
Thank you all for you words. _________________ Has anyone seen the bridge |
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