The link in the thread you say that under is mine, ToryMagoo44. Are you suggesting in
any way that I am "stalking..Inciting a subject.." I wouldn't even care, except those
are the exact type of quotes OSA loves. Please clarify.

You promoting you're a "professional" is in itself a bit odd.
A true professional doesn't ever have to TELL people he/she is one.
Their work stands alone, proving it either is, or isn't.

Tory/Magoo

I'm pretty sure he's talking about AGP. Your video talking to handlers at Big Blue is a good example of using friendliness and logical communication.

Thanks, I'm Glib----I thought the same, except my video is in the post about
that. I'd like GB to clarify. Remember, *I* was already in court once
with C of $/OSA and their creepy print outs of part of my post, from ARS at the time.

They *thought* they were going to make me look bad with it, counting
on me forgetting it. In truth, I remembered it all, and I told the Judge
IF they were going to bring
in part of a post, *I* get to tell what it was about. In the end, they looked
like the morons they are. However, it taught me they will use anything to
try to screw someone.

Thus, I like to keep things VERY clear, especially when someone is using
terms such as he did in that post. ("Stalking" "Inciting" ). So GB: As I said before:
Please clarify.

My best,

T

My twopence:
Do I agree with everything AGP does? Not in the slightest. Do I think he does it all wrong? Nope. Would I do the things he does for what he believes is right? Negatory. Is he creating an effect? Yep.

Really, AGP has an inflammatory tact, historically. I see that it rubs people in the wrong way. I can't blame the people who are upset by it - I would be too in many situations.

But the rally against the person is equally misplaced, in my opinion. Is that the best way to rectify or discuss the situation, to crap on his film-making? "Well, to properly contrast the conflict, I'd recommend the Rule of Thirds. Also, hold the damn camera still." Bah. And since when would a documentarian be prohibited from pushing buttons?

I'd love to see more discussion, on each side, rather than "screw you" and "no, screw you." If one side cannot do so, those of us that normally just read can make up our own minds as to which side should be taken with the larger grain of salt. If both sides of a conflict are equally shut out to opposing viewpoints, how can I take either side seriously?

Again, that's just my two pesos.

Tory. Anything I have said within this thread is directed at AGP,BF, I'mglib and no one else. None of my comments were directed at you or anything you have said or posted. PERIOD.

AGP is an ass. That is my take on the man and his actions. This is my opinion and mine alone. Your results may vary! Then again I may be the ass.

They may not be mutually exclusive categories Gumby. That being said, I don't think you are an ass, and I'd be happy to have you visit my kitchen anytime. AGP I'm not so sure about, but I want to give him the benefit of the doubt... well... at least when he's not ranting in front of little children and costing them their recess time...

First of all AGP, the security guard came out to talk to you because you pulled the canvas barrier down, you just didn't stick your camera up over it and film, you pulled it down, so he was obligated to come and investigate you. That's his job.

Secondly, he is not a caged Scientologist. He went back to work, went through a gate to get away from you. You pursued him right up to the gate and I'm sure he was relieved to get behind it and get it closed. He did the right thing: you provoked him to anger and he walked away.

Then, in the first video (at least) he did not throw coffee on you. I froze the frame in the last second of the video (:52) and I can clearly see his empty left hand on your camera lens. He was carrying the coffee in his right hand and it has a lid on it. So I don't know if you're lying or the coffee boiling/throwing is actually in the other video. I suspect you're just lying. In any case whether he just smacked you with his open (empty) hand or later tossed some (probably lukewarm) coffee on you, I'd say you probably got what was coming to you.


...now that I've watched your second video I can see that your camera stops when he smacks your camera with his empty left hand. I suppose he could have thrown coffee on you when the camera was off. Did he take the lid off?

When the camera comes back on we see through (what seems to me) a clear lens your face and shirt; and I don't see any coffee on either. It's only when you start rubbing the lens with your (no doubt) greasy, sweaty shirt that the camera lens becomes dirty. I suspect you need to "protest" less, take more frequent showers and launder your clothes more. Or buy camera lens wipes.

My conclusion is that he did not throw any coffee on you. He would have had to take the lid off and dump ALOT of coffee on you, which I did not see on your face or shirt. Maybe by closing the gate hard with his right hand that was holding the cup of coffee, a tiny bit did splash on your lens. But that would be incidental or accidental. He DID smack your cameral lens, I'll grant you that. But like I said: you had it coming.

I think mostly that you're (for the sake of theatrics) just making crap up (lying) about this coffee thing.

Lastly, he's an old guy, probably been in the Sea Org for decades. He doesn't know much else, has nowhere to go if he did leave (especially in today's real economic depression) and is just doing what he's told. What do you hope to gain by ridiculing guys like that? You've been around long enough to recognize when someone might be a helpless old-timer like this. Try to find an ounce of compassion in yourself when you come across people like this. Scientology's WinterWonderland exhibit and this guy just doing his job have nothing to do with any real abuses of Scientology. Organizations use un-paid labor all the time to create Christmas displays and floats. There's a place for you AGP (not sure where), you just need to find more worthy targets rather than old men and children.

.

Shame on you for not getting the ABLE guard's name. He was pretty damn cute. Grrrrrr.....

Last year in this very same spot the police nearly arrested me for balking at being 'swept from the sidewalk' during a peaceful protest designed to alert the public to the reality of this sham of a "Christmas Wonderland."

Gumby, I will never forget that you stared down the heavily armed national guard in Atlanta when this whole thing first started, and I admire you for that, but please don't underestimate the baby steps we've had to take here in Scientology-corrupted Southern California over the years. You have no idea. So, how 'bout you back your shit down a notch or two and have a little respect for the work that's being done here?

BF, I need your help. I've been out of the loop for awhile lately... or maybe I'm getting old and soft... I don't know. But could you please remind me: what exactly is the "sham" of Scientology's Christmas Wonderland? I forget.

I know all about DM mistreating his staff, slave labor and R6 implants and blah, blah, blah... and I know they play that horribly banal Way To Happiness voiceover when it opens, but so what?!? I mean many churches and religions "hypocritically" participate in Christmas season festivities. Many use un-paid labor to build their displays.
I think some people are just a bit put off by in-your-face protesting in the context of the holiday spirit. For the Scientology workers working on this display (RPF or not) it's probably some of the more enjoyable work they do all year.
They're outdoors, they have good tools, a Genie lift, they get to pet Rudolph.

I often do and supervise roughly the same kind of work I see them doing and I don't see any unsafe conditions or broken labor laws. I see guys building a Christmas display. Brainwashed or not, can you not put yourself in their place and just imagine how loopy and just downright scary a guy like AGP might come across as: ..out there protesting Santa?!?


Again, same question what is "the work" being done here? What is so important that we would want to cause fear, shame and sadness in these poor hapless employees around these holy days? Please articulate it for me. I can't seem to. Provoking broken down old Sea Org men to anger? Lying about coffee being dumped on him? Leering at and taunting elementary and pre-school tots?

I seem to have lost my way. Please help.

.

Thanks, Gumby, for clarifying that. Trust me, whether it seems important to you or anyone
else, having lived through C of $/OSA's CRAP in my face, *I* wanted it absolutely
clarified, so thanks.

Re AGP: I told him the day he arrived on the scene that whether he meant to or not,
by yelling in the faces of the security guards, he was getting products for OSA, as well
as making Anonymous look bad. Sorry, AGP--I've said it many times: I do not believe
yelling or being creepy to Sea Org members helps *anyone*. In fact, I Know it does not.

Re the Xmas Parade, here's my two cents:

Xmas is just that: It's Christmas time, and whether you like it or not, it's mostly
for KIDS. I believe, both having delightful, happy memories as a kid at Christmas,
and having worked with kids for years---I believe we should help them have MORE
happiness, not less. Now I know some critics will say: "But Scientology is roping in
Kids, and they don't believe in Christ".

Ok, true. However, I still believe we all have the entire YEAR to educate the public
about the abuses of C of $, and the KIDS have a few weeks
to enjoy their fantasy's.

It's up to each individual---but that's my two cents for whatever it's worth.

Hope that helps some. PEACE!

TLC

Thank you for the kind words,But I was just one person in a crowd of over 100+ concerned fellow citizens attending the protest. Everyone in attendance deserves accolades. Anyway, to correct something for you, It was NOT heavily armed National Guard that assembled across the street from we protesters. They where POLICE officers. Members of Dekalb counties TACTICAL response team. IF stating they were "Heavily armed" means carrying fire arms, that was not the case, with the exception of the higher ranking field commanders. These same officers are used @ spirited protest's here in Ga during say an organized PETA demonstration against animal research , etc.

They were riot police.Only armed with batons and mace,body armor and shields. Hope this clarifies who and what those police officers were. Now I do hope whatever it is you are doing in Cali has a positive impact and outcome. As to "Back my shit down a notch or two" I may be over the top comment wise here on this board, BUT what has been presented to us/me by the OP of this thread is viewed by myself as disturbing and counter productive.

OP has shown repeatedly within many of his video's that his style of activism comes across Imo a negative fashion. Then to ask for money(Donations) in order to support that brand of activism Imo needs to be questioned! Protests against the cult are one thing. Looking for and singling out an individual adherent is Imho disturbing.

I appreciate Roan's critical thinking on this subject. It makes the thread so much more worthwhile.

I will add that in the above video, I hope AGP is not accusing Cutie guard of "sleepwalking". Cutie was cracking up almost the whole way at AGP's questions and comments. You could tell he was actually enjoying himself. I hope he does not get into trouble for out- TR-0: his inability to keep a straight face in scino terms. You could tell he was not "ridging" on AGP at all. I thought that was interesting. They oughta replace snotty-nosed-spoiled-child Tommy Davis with Cutie. He would totally improve the "face of scientology". If Cutie is a hired gun, that just goes to show how much more Cute, human and "real" a "wog" is compared to an Oatee prick like TD.

Look, I totally agree with you actually. And while I have attended the Christmas thing and protested in prior years, I am kind of thinking that it does make sense to leave them alone on Christmas. I think it is good that the general public now knows that it's a Scientology setup there on Hollywood Blvd, but people get that now. I too don't see the need to harrass people who are working.

I could see some benefit in continuing to inform the general public at large public events like this (the parade for instance), and also in attempts at getting some message across to the people working there. There are dozens of threads with discussion about how best to do that.

The thing about THIS thread and about AGP is he IS a controversial figure. As I understand it, he has been banned from WWP and ESMB, and frankly, when he signed up here, I was a bit worried. But I thought, hey, what is the NUMBER ONE thing Andreas wants for this board: FREE SPEECH. Andreas does not want to have the board where people are not allowed to have their say (like Marty's board).

But what is the NUMBER TWO thing? Andreas has said over and over that this board should be a FRIENDLY PLACE where people talk as they would if they were face to face.

I don't think you, for instance, would tell someone to their face that they should go put a gag ball in their mouth (ahem!). It borders on homophobia.

Also, I don't think it's a good idea to insult a person in other ways, such as their hygene or camera skills, that don't have to do with opinions about Scientology.

I have been on pretty good terms with AGP for some time. We have conferred over the AO case, and let me tell you, AGP is waaaaaay more reasonable then AO. I don't see the need for personal insults. Telling him you don't like his methods, and that you don't see what it achieves sounds good to me. Personal insults, and escalating venom, not so much.

Agreed.

We should be holding ourselves as critics to a higher standard then the tactics that CoS has employed over the years. That should include the type of TR 0 bullbaiting that Scientology has employed in the past. Discuss the abuses and outright lies sure, but we need to do it in a manner that shows that we are "facing and not flinching" to use Sci speak in manner that is more productive then hurling insults back and forth.