Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

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duhast
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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by duhast » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:20 am

road relocations would help prevent further scrutiny of criminal activity and deprive victims of an available escape route.
I think that's a pretty good argument.

What I think is really funny is that no matter what they do, there will always be an entrance to the base, and that's where the protests will be.
I'm worth a million in prizes.

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by brownjedi » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:41 pm

Duhast, exactly there will always be a place for people to stand and protest. If that road is closed down, the protests will now be much more visible to the outside world making the reputation of the cult even worse than it already is now.

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by Sponge » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:16 am

Follow-up to the Jan 9th article....

SAN JACINTO: Decision on Gilman Springs Road study postponed
Press Enterprise Jan 11th 2011
http://www.pe.com/localnews/stories/PE_ ... f3e11.html
A decision on whether to evaluate realignment options for Gilman Springs Road north of San Jacinto was put off indefinitely Tuesday by the Riverside County Board of Supervisors.

The board voted after hearing that postponement would ensure interested parties are available to comment at a later date.

[...]

County Transportation Director Juan Perez said it was his understanding that a representative of the Soboba Band of Luiseño Indians was unable to attend Tuesday's meeting.

The applicant had requested a continuance. The applicant originally filed a request to amend the county's general plan to close the road, but subsequently backed the study idea presented at a county Planning Commission meeting last year.

...more in article link....

Video coverage of the Board of Supervisors meetings available at this post on this thread....
viewtopic.php?p=387902#p387902
(and the post underneath it). Thanks to mnql1 for the video media.

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by Smurf » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:03 pm

This is the perfect case of DM and his minions biting off more than they can chew. The cult has a long record of paying big bucks to expert attorneys to pressure & bully officials to push through a pro-cult agenda.. methinks they've dug a hole on this one. Not that the cult has ceded to realigning the road versus closing it, it means the proposed road will require sidewalks and bicycle safety lanes which would make protests more accessible. Plus, the cult has to pay every dollar & cent for the realignment.

I'm sure DM is sitting on his miniature throne thinking he's invincible and is going to get his way on this.... I doubt he's considered how many 'Basics" he's going to have to sell to pay for the endeavor. The cult's attorney Sam Aldaheff, allegedly, collects a $650/hr. fee. I doubt he's complaining. One thing County officials do not want to do is piss off the tribal officials. Else, they spend a fortune in county funds defending their actions in lawsuits.

"Originally, the applicant sought closure of the road but was open to studying realignment options. The county staff recommends initiating a general plan amendment to evaluate realignment options, with the applicant bearing study costs and any realignment cost. If realignment is considered, "We would like to be at the table," said San Jacinto City Manager Tim Hults. Last year, the San Jacinto City Council went on record against closure because of the regional significance of the road.

Karl Johnson, attorney for the Soboba Band of Luiseño Indians, presented a letter from tribal Chairman Scott Cozart saying the tribe objects to closure because Gilman is one of two routes in and out of the reservation without crossing the San Jacinto River. Johnson said that if the road is closed, the band expects "replacement of like for like" in an alternate route. Commissioner John Porras cautioned studies by applicants "tend to be skewed in the direction they want it to go." Commissioner John Snell said he has seen cases where applicants have presented "unbiased" studies."

http://www.pe.com/localnews/hemet/stori ... 89a02.html

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by Sponge » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:03 pm

Just in...
SAN JACINTO: Multi-car crash along Gilman Springs Road
By Richard Brooks. Press Enterprisen March 15, 2011
http://blogs.pe.com/news/digest/2011/03 ... sh-al.html
A head-on collision has damaged as many as five vehicles and closed the roadway at Gilman Springs Road and Sanderson Avenue north of San Jacinto, according to the California Highway Patrol website.

The wreck was reported at 10:33 a.m. near Golden Era Studios.

The roadway was still blocked at 10:54 a.m.

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by Sponge » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:48 am

SAN JACINTO: Most of Gilman Hot Springs in church ownership
Press-Enterprise 16th April 2011
http://www.pe.com/localnews/stories/PE_ ... c5a14.html

Also related to this previous thread:
San-Jacinto: CoS buys land, Tenants evicted from trailerpark
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=34803

Don Carlo
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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by Don Carlo » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:59 pm

It can't all be "religious." Make 'em pay property taxes on most of it.

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by Gnu » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:37 pm

Sponge wrote:SAN JACINTO: Most of Gilman Hot Springs in church ownership
Press-Enterprise 16th April 2011
http://www.pe.com/localnews/stories/PE_ ... c5a14.html

Also related to this previous thread:
San-Jacinto: CoS buys land, Tenants evicted from trailerpark
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=34803

Needs more comments.
But the cultie comments are pretty obvious...
"Wisdom comes by disillusionment."
George Santayana

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by I'mglib » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:22 am

Thanks, Sponge. They are taking over, just like in Clearwater. Beware, Hemet residents.
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by Smurf » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:25 am

I'mglib wrote:Thanks, Sponge. They are taking over, just like in Clearwater. Beware, Hemet residents.
Unfortunately, Glib, I fear that this is going to be another one of those issues where the local community is apathetic to what's going on around them, until the cult eventually gets their way, THEN the community will get upset & respond, and by then, it's too late.

I remember when Clearwater residents largely ignored former Clearwater mayor Gabe Cazares & protests when the cult was gobbling up real estate in downtown Clearwater. The complaints & lawsuits (unsuccessful) came after the fact & too late. Now, the downtown area is largely a ghost town and most retail has left the area, with exception to shops owned by Scilons.

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by anondelmundial » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:15 am

Unfortunately, Glib, I fear that this is going to be another one of those issues where the local community is apathetic to what's going on around them, until the cult eventually gets their way, THEN the community will get upset & respond, and by then, it's too late.
I think not. The cost of developing new roads to the current California and federal standards will cost millions of dollars. It might be over one-two million dollars per mile.

The best practice would be to force the cult to acknowledge their illegal usage of public property and let the road remain two lanes with a wider width with sidewalks. The cult would have to pay for the widening, since they likely have encroached the public right of way.

In this instance, the public can be ignored, since both California and federal regulations will govern any modification of the right of way. The cult will have a very hard time justifying their plan, whatever it is. If the cult's plan is an alternative route, they will have to pay for it. This will cost millions, on their dime. If the state wants the road widened, the cult will be on the hook for millions of dollars for their encroachment on the right of way.

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by Smurf » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:03 am

anondelmundial wrote: I think not. The cost of developing new roads to the current California and federal standards will cost millions of dollars. It might be over one-two million dollars per mile.

The best practice would be to force the cult to acknowledge their illegal usage of public property and let the road remain two lanes with a wider width with sidewalks. The cult would have to pay for the widening, since they likely have encroached the public right of way.
Maybe so, maybe not. If the issue turns into a full-blown legal issue involving safety concerns, a combination of court decisions and political persuasion could force a re-route at federal & Caltrans expense.

I don't put anything past Riverside County politics. There is a well-established history of pervasive corruption among officials in that county.

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by Sponge » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:47 pm

Related:

SAN JACINTO: Study partner sought for road-levee idea
by Gail Wesson, Press-Enterprise. September 7, 2011
http://www.pe.com/localnews/hemet/stori ... ea82c.html
San Jacinto City Council members want city staff to explore finding partners who might help pay for a preliminary environmental study of a four-lane road to double as a levee for the Gateway area.

But Mayor Scott Miller and others made it clear the project must benefit the city and not be looked at as a transportation fix for the area.

The council by a 4-0 vote late Tuesday approved spending up to $30,000 for a consultant to look at whether an elevated Record Road, between State Street and Sanderson Avenue, might overcome environmental hurdles that city officials fear may run up the price tag on a more traditional levee project.

Councilman Alonso Ledezma was absent.

The levee or road would protect the south side of the San Jacinto River.

The Church of Scientology's Golden Era Productions is just north of the river. The well-traveled Gilman Springs Road crosses the church's property. More than a year ago, the church's property management arm proposed closing the road and moving it south of the river, near Record Road

Riverside County officials made it clear that the church would have to pay for any study and road relocation. The county Board of Supervisors in January put the idea on hold at the request of the applicant.

San Jacinto City Manager Tim Hults said he had talked to an attorney for the group, but did not elaborate.

He also suggested talking to the Soboba Band of Luiseño Indians. The tribe opposed closing Gilman because it is an access point to its casino.

City Engineer Habib Motlagh has said the elevated road may cost $20 million to $25 million, compared to $40 million to $50 million for a traditional levee, including land acquisition.

"I think it's a viable option because, frankly, we can do all the talking about the Gateway but unless we get this flood control taken care of, it's all talk," Councilman Mark Bartel said Wednesday.


The Gateway is seen as a future commercial and residential hub.

A levee project could take about 2,000 acres out of the flood plain, thus opening it to development.

Resident Harold Spangenberg commented, "I don't think the taxpayers should have to pay to make land available to developers."

Hults said the city would have to front the cost of a levee project, but recoup the money through development impact fees, grants and other sources.

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by Sponge » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:58 pm

...and more...

San Jacinto may bulk up road
NEW EAST-WEST PASSAGE: Street would be atop levee, enabling development.
By CHARLES HAND/The Valley Chronicle
Published: Friday, September 9, 2011
http://www.thevalleychronicle.com/artic ... 389147.txt
San Jacinto has decided to explore the possibility of building a second east-west road between Sanderson Avenue and State Street.

But the road would be more than four additional lanes draining off traffic along the busy corridor.

Under a plan approved by the City Council on Tuesday, the road would be built atop a levee that could make it possible to start commercial development south of the San Jacinto River east of Sanderson Avenue in the area known as the Gateway.

City Manager Tim Hults said the plan does not mean the city will not continue participating with the Riverside County Flood Control Agency and a host of other federal, state, and local regulatory agencies, but it could move a small portion along.


Under the plan approved Tuesday, the city will pay a consultant $30,000 to study the engineering of improving Record Road between Sanderson and State, a route that is seldom used under current conditions.

Hults said the four-lane Record Road would pass over the two existing intersections, Lyon Avenue and Potter Road.

Whether the levee would be enough to convince regulatory agencies that the land south of the new road would be considered removed from the river’s floodplain remains to be seen, said Hults.

In fact, one of the questions to be answered by the study is whether that is likely.

About 1,700 acres of open land lie within the projected Gateway project, but all of it also lies within the floodplain south of the river.

Until it can be either raised above the floodplain, which no one sees as feasible, or protected by a levee, no development can be started.

Hults said Riverside County Flood Control officials have tentatively suggested that construction of a levee under Record Road could protect the area between Sanderson and State enough to make development feasible, but no firm opinions have been issued.

Though the city has money in its road construction fund, during the study phase, officials will write letters to those with some economic interest in the area asking whether they are interested in helping to pay for the road.

So far, three such organizations have been identified, said Hults, chief among them the flood control agency since it is a participant in the levee extension and raising project.

The Church of Scientology and Soboba Band of Luiseño Indians will also be contacted, he said.

Regardless of whether any of those potential partners participate the city will build the road if it proves feasible, said Hults.

The multiagency project to raise the levee would extend 2,800 feet west of Sanderson Avenue and 1,000 east of State Street.

Over the several years the agencies have pondered the project, the cost has escalated from a few million to $20 million to $50 million.

Hults said it will take about four months to conduct the feasibility study, which will also contain elements of an environmental study.

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Re: Church officially seeks closure (of Gilman Springs Rd)

Post by I'mglib » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:42 pm

The thing I don't get is whether there is a flooding problem with the current road.
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/

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