Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
User avatar
Stan Shmenge
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:13 pm
Location: Burbank, California

Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by Stan Shmenge » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:34 am

Can't they "run it out" with the purif?

ordinarycitizen
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:19 pm

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by ordinarycitizen » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:10 pm

Stan Shmenge wrote:Can't they "run it out" with the purif?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ur ... egal_drugs
Retention of LSD in spinal fluid

A legend which falsely instills a fear of a non-existent effect of LSD is that the body stores crystallized LSD in spinal fluid or in fat cells, which at some point dislodges and causes horrific flashbacks, perhaps years later.[14] Although the body does store some toxins in fat tissue, and residues of some drugs and toxins can be found in spinal fluid, LSD is not among these. LSD is metabolized by the liver, and has an elimination half-life of around 3–5 hours, and is insoluble in fats, being an alkaloid. This legend may have its foundation in the fact that chronic use can result in persistent psychosis and hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD).[15] However, all of these conditions are now understood to be psychological phenomena and not due to drug residues.

A likely origin of this myth is L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology, whose own unverified research was alleged to show that LSD storage in body fat occurred. However, no peer-reviewed, independent scientific studies have ever replicated his findings. Due to LSD's known water solubility and short half-life, and thus biological implausibility, such findings are considered spurious by essentially all medical professionals today.[16]

User avatar
Dorothy
Posts: 1957
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:03 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by Dorothy » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:10 pm

Thanks ordinarycitizen. Good reference.

Our programming said basically this: LSD rearranges a person's "time track" (memory-including all your past life memory) and basically does irreversible damage to one's mind. So in a sense, our indoctrination was correct, in that even though we (wrongly) believed we could "run it out" on the Purif, it was the psychological damage that could not be undone. LRon did not want "psychologically damaged" people in his perfect Sea Organization of "advanced beings". Their myth about LSD is part of what makes them feel "elite".

My personal opinion is that LSD opens one's mind and does cause a person to "think differently". It definitely alters one's perceptions:
This legend may have its foundation in the fact that chronic use can result in persistent psychosis and hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD).[15] However, all of these conditions are now understood to be psychological phenomena and not due to drug residues.
Although I do not agree that it is a "disorder", drug-induced flashbacks are very real and many people who take hallucinogenic drugs have profound spiritual cognitions, hence the other side of the coin: the cult of Carlos Castaneda.
“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
― Hannah Arendt

User avatar
Panda Termint
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by Panda Termint » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:29 pm

It has always amused me that Hubbard's authoritarian pronouncements about the long-term effects of LSD (HCOB 31 May, 1977 "LSD, Years After They Have Come Off") are, according to the text IIRC, based on "extensive research of two (2) cases".
Two? Yes, two!
Now that's what I call "extensive research"!!! :lol:
Dave Gibbons, Sydney AUSTRALIA.
Practicing scientologist 1974 - 2008
No longer a scientologist.

User avatar
Lron's socks
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:26 am

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by Lron's socks » Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:04 pm

Panda Termint wrote:It has always amused me that Hubbard's authoritarian pronouncements about the long-term effects of LSD (HCOB 31 May, 1977 "LSD, Years After They Have Come Off") are, according to the text IIRC, based on "extensive research of two (2) cases".
Two? Yes, two!
Now that's what I call "extensive research"!!! :lol:
=D>

What L Ron Hubbard called "extensive research", the rest of us would call "Pulling it out of our a$$es."

User avatar
BenFranklinGirl
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:46 pm
Location: Alexandria, VA

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by BenFranklinGirl » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:15 pm

Jeff Hawkins states that he used acid before getting into Scientology and joining the Sea Org - so much for staying on policy or source or whatever they call it! I bet he's not the only one, either.
“In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.” - James Madison

User avatar
sekh
Posts: 821
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:02 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by sekh » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:39 pm

Didn't LRH Hisself dabble with psychotropic drugs during his Golden Dawn period? Most of those guys did to some extend, to get in touch with their "magickal" powers....
"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."
Sir Karl Popper (1902 - 1994)

RedPill
Posts: 1362
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:33 am

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by RedPill » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:04 pm

According to (?) Margery Wakefield ... there was some episode back when the HubTurd was still around and the Sea Org was just getting started, and there were three ships, and one of the smaller ones that the Hubturd was not on (his flag was on the Apollo) hit some exceedingly rough seas. The crew was pretty green ... both turning green from sea sickness and green as in inexperienced. But, they had this creed of "make it go right" and were actually able to get into a port regardless. The HubTurd, it turns out, couldn't be wrong, ever. Therefore, he couldn't have given orders to send one of these vessils out into these storm conditions. That meant that the captain of the vessil must have misduplicated the HubTurd's orders. A "why" had to be found, which, of course, turned out to be a history of LSD use in the captain's past.

The captain was not an experienced ship handler, he was just a sea ogre like the rest, who was trying as best he could. The HubTurd had him comm-ev'd and then sent to the deck project force, later known as the RPF.

The story is written up in the Bent Corydon book, "LRH M or M?"

Pete

User avatar
Smurf
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:10 am

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by Smurf » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:38 am

BenFranklinGirl wrote:Jeff Hawkins states that he used acid before getting into Scientology and joining the Sea Org - so much for staying on policy or source or whatever they call it! I bet he's not the only one, either.
I was told I would never be allowed on the Freewinds or join the SO because of my experimenting with LSD in high school, though I've known of staff who were 2nd & 3rd generation Scilons that used it and still managed to be accepted into the SO.

Lisa Marie Presley & Kirstie Alley are both confirmed former drug users that have been on the Freewinds. Even in a cult, it's all about who you know and what influence you have, even if it runs counter to long-standing policy.

User avatar
sekh
Posts: 821
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:02 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by sekh » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:28 am

And of course how much you donate on a yearly basis....
"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."
Sir Karl Popper (1902 - 1994)

User avatar
RIPODB
Posts: 1484
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:04 pm

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by RIPODB » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:49 am

Interesting thread. I never read that HCOB regarding LSD until tonight.
Dorothy wrote:My personal opinion is that LSD opens one's mind and does cause a person to "think differently". It definitely alters one's perceptions:
IMO, Ron probably demonized LSD for the same reason he demonized psychiatry: Competition. Why would a scientologist spend a lot of time and money in order to externalize when he/she could get the same effect from a two dollar dose of LSD? And then there's the possibility that a scientologist could see through the scam while his/her perception is altered by LSD and then say, a la Jeff Spiccoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High, that those scientologists are fags. :lol:
"People with too many arguments should always be approached with suspicion. Dialectic and endless reasoning are usually used as resistance against disagreeable truths" A. M. Meerloo, M.D. "Delusion and Mass-Delusion" (c) 1949

User avatar
Murray Luther
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by Murray Luther » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:17 am

The COS considers LSD to be mainly a security issue. Hubbard believed that LSD was distributed and promoted by govt. intelligence and psychiatry as a means of covert mind control. Yes, I know, the irony of it all. The COS also considers LSD to be a tool of pain-drug hypnosis. So anyone who has taken LSD possesses a number of possible security related scenarios: Connections with govt., psychiatry, and exposure to PDH. There are a number of CCHR publications that have elaborated on this in various degrees. For some reason PCP got thrown into this conspiracy theory mix. Recruiters used to ask me if I had ever taken LSD or PCP. Im unclear on the PCP connection.
"Whatever ultimate fate the Church may meet, its true legacy must outlive the lie."

User avatar
Peter Schilte
Posts: 1864
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:22 pm
Location: Vierlingsbeek (Netherlands)

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by Peter Schilte » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:32 am

Panda Termint wrote:It has always amused me that Hubbard's authoritarian pronouncements about the long-term effects of LSD (HCOB 31 May, 1977 "LSD, Years After They Have Come Off") are, according to the text IIRC, based on "extensive research of two (2) cases".
Two? Yes, two!
Now that's what I call "extensive research"!!! :lol:
In that HCOB Hubbard talks about "examination", not extensive research.
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 31 MAY 1977
Remimeo
LSD
YEARS AFTER THEY HAVE
“COME OFF OF” LSD
Characteristics of persons who have been on it from examination of 2
cases:
1.) They are disassociated—meaning they are separate from anything they are doing.
2.) Whatever occurs has nothing to do with him.
3.) Not responsible for their own action or anything else and it doesn’t occur to
them that they ever should be.
4.) Their emotions are shut off to a greater or lesser extent.
5.) Consequences mean little or nothing to them.
6.) They are stupid.
7.) Normal actions that another can do easily get mucked up by them.
8.) They are unpleasant to associate with.
9.) They are de-humanized and can be vicious or irrationally cruel.
Apparently they have become a sort of a vegetable or a zombie to a greater or lesser degree.
The LSD apparently stays in the system and is liable to go into action again giving them unpredictable “trips.” Which could be quite fatal while driving and even walking around.
A Drug Rundown which has to include LSD cannot be considered complete until the person has undergone a long period of sweating and heavy liquids and exercise.
The way LSD got popular was because of Henry Luce, the head of Time Magazine, who publicized it and glorified it from mid-1950 on. He and his wife were under psychiatric care and were on LSD.
Nearly as I can trace it, it was the Nazi intelligence drug developed in Switzerland and was probably intended for use in municipal water systems to paralyze the population just prior to an invasion as the invading enemy would then find them all irrational.
It only takes a millionth of an ounce to produce a “full trip.”
When you are dealing with an LSD case or anyone who has ever taken LSD you cannot and must not consider their Drug Rundown complete until they have been sweated and given liquids and exercised for months as well as heavily audited.
They can recover with auditing and this handling, but it won’t be very fast.

L. RON HUBBARD
LRH: Founder
Copyright © 1977
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
Mind that LSD is known to have left the body in a couple of hours!

Peter
"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM."
- L. Ron Hubbard

http://www.scamofscientology.nl

User avatar
Panda Termint
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by Panda Termint » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:05 am

Re: the above HCOB.
Sorry Peter, I misspoke. Maybe the "extensive research" was mentioned elsewhere in the Drug Rundown Series, as if it matters.
1.) They are disassociated—meaning they are separate from anything they are doing.
2.) Whatever occurs has nothing to do with him.
3.) Not responsible for their own action or anything else and it doesn’t occur to
them that they ever should be.
4.) Their emotions are shut off to a greater or lesser extent.
5.) Consequences mean little or nothing to them.
6.) They are stupid.
7.) Normal actions that another can do easily get mucked up by them.
8.) They are unpleasant to associate with.
9.) They are de-humanized and can be vicious or irrationally cruel.
Attributes 1 - 9 seem eerily descriptive of Hubbard's own behaviour.
Dave Gibbons, Sydney AUSTRALIA.
Practicing scientologist 1974 - 2008
No longer a scientologist.

jax
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:31 pm

Re: Why does LSD use disqualify you for Scientology?

Post by jax » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:48 pm

Panda Termint wrote:Re: the above HCOB.
Sorry Peter, I misspoke. Maybe the "extensive research" was mentioned elsewhere in the Drug Rundown Series, as if it matters.
1.) They are disassociated—meaning they are separate from anything they are doing.
2.) Whatever occurs has nothing to do with him.
3.) Not responsible for their own action or anything else and it doesn’t occur to
them that they ever should be.
4.) Their emotions are shut off to a greater or lesser extent.
5.) Consequences mean little or nothing to them.
6.) They are stupid.
7.) Normal actions that another can do easily get mucked up by them.
8.) They are unpleasant to associate with.
9.) They are de-humanized and can be vicious or irrationally cruel.
Attributes 1 - 9 seem eerily descriptive of Hubbard's own behaviour.
HA!
Those attributes are also descriptive of “SPs” too. Hmmmm...

Anyway, what a lucky break for all humanity that LRH was such a brilliant scientist that he only had to “examine” a mere 2 LSD users before publishing his broad sweeping scientific conclusions.
I wonder how many “SPs” he “examined” before he came up with his 100% scientific determinations about them?

Thanks to LRH & his super keen powers of observation I have been able to detect a few LSD users at my place of employment.
Pretty amazing, huh? :D
I strongly suspect—oh wait—I mean I conclude with 100% scientific certainty that one particular employee has been a very heavy LSD user based strictly upon the ultra precise list of characteristics that LRH has painstakingly & humbly tendered to all mankind.

Of course they have never actually TOLD me that they have used LSD before—but they don’t have to—I have a trusty, infallible scientific checklist to go by so I KNOW.

The other fascinating aspect of this exact science is how many criminals, sociopaths & psychopaths in history there are who MUST have been LSD users—whether they admit it or not.
But who needs confessions or other documentation when LRH took ten minutes out of his busy day to compile a scientific list of unmistakable trademark behaviors exhibited by LSD users?
It seems—according to the science—that there were LSD users long before LSD was discovered.
Strange—but scientifically irrefutable.
I suppose that is the art (or science) of “knowing how to know”—right? :scratch:
Hip hip…

Post Reply

Return to “Opinions & Debate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 10 guests