How to help Heber Jentzsch ?

Don Carlo · **Joined:** Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am **Posts:** 8093

City, county and state police and social workers are overworked, so one eyewitness report is better than twenty hearsay reports.

Smurf · **Joined:** Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:10 am **Posts:** 2681

Don Carlo wrote:

City, county and state police and social workers are overworked, so one eyewitness report is better than twenty hearsay reports.

Law enforcement recognize eyewitnesses as those that are in the immediate environment of the victim recently not months or years ago. Unless there have some recent defectors from Gold Base.. that's out.

Reports coming from AO will certainly be taken with a grain of salt.

JonDoe · **Joined:** Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 480

Heber can't complain. After all, he pulled it in with his own out-ethics. Right, Heber?

Sponge · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:47 pm

Remember that part of it is that, even if law enforcement decide that there is nothing further they can do at that time, you have at least let the person on the inside know that you haven't forgotten about them and, should the victim's doubts become more valid to them at any time, then they will at least remember that a particular relative is out there who could be called on for help.

Dorothy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:39 pm

Sponge wrote:

Remember that part of it is that, even if law enforcement decide that there is nothing further they can do at that time, you have at least let the person on the inside know that you haven't forgotten about them and, should the victim's doubts become more valid to them at any time, then they will at least remember that a particular relative is out there who could be called on for help.

Yes. And it needs to penetrate, with repeated and strong effort to get through, because just like a prisoner in a Communist concentration camp, Heber's brain has been re-wired to think differently than you or I. He no longer holds the same values he might have held at one time. One family member caring deeply about the welfare of another family member carries little to no value for Heber or anyone else in that hell-hole. One family member deeply caring about another ranks down at the bottom of the ocean, with the mollusks, in terms of "scientology values". These people are dealing with whole track issues and saving mankind. What is one (one lifetime) meat body relationship in that scheme of things?

Smurf · **Joined:** Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:10 am **Posts:** 2681

Sponge wrote:

Remember that part of it is that, even if law enforcement decide that there is nothing further they can do at that time, you have at least let the person on the inside know that you haven't forgotten about them and, should the victim's doubts become more valid to them at any time, then they will at least remember that a particular relative is out there who could be called on for help.

Sorry, that is not correct. As past experience has shown, law enforcement is only required to attempt a welfare check and be able to document that he/she made it. Often, they won't even see or meet the intended individual, but will take the word of an attorney or a doctor/nurse claiming to be the person's medical provider. As long as the visit is documented, that's all law enforcement cares about.

The law enforcement would leave it to the caregiver to pass the information to the patient. Like that's going to happen at Gold Base. The only other option would be for an immediate family member of Heber to get a court order requiring a meeting between Heber & the family member with the law enforcement officer & the family member's attorney present. Unfortunately, Karen would not qualify, under the law, because she's legally divorced from Heber.

I'mglib · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:17 pm **Posts:** 4970

Quote:

As past experience has shown, law enforcement is only required to attempt a welfare check and be able to document that he/she made it.

I believe what Sponge is saying is that it's important for the families to keep up the spirits of the people inside by continuing to try to make contact. As he said, "you have at least let the person on the inside know that you haven't forgotten about them". In other words, the effort is for the family member, not for law enforcement.

Smurf · **Joined:** Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:10 am **Posts:** 2681

I'mglib wrote:

Quote:

As past experience has shown, law enforcement is only required to attempt a welfare check and be able to document that he/she made it.

I believe what Sponge is saying is that it's important for the families to keep up the spirits of the people inside by continuing to try to make contact. As he said, "you have at least let the person on the inside know that you haven't forgotten about them". In other words, the effort is for the family member, not for law enforcement.

I understood what Sponge said, Glib. The point is... if the people inside are unaware that family members are asking about them (because a "gatekeeper" intervened on thier behalf), there would be no "keeping the spirits up" of the people inside. The cult is not going to inform the member that someone was asking about them.

I'mglib · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:17 pm **Posts:** 4970

You never know what might happen. I agree with Sponge that the attempt should be made. For instance, there's this (from Illegal Alien, who got his teenage son out of the RPF in Australia):

Quote:

Kids and scientology man do those two things create such an emotional stur.

After reading the new posts on the thread about Fiona I have come to realize that there is one thing we as parents must not stop trying and that is to stay in contact.

Here is the thing even if you do not get to speak to Fiona directly don't loose that attempt. Let it be known that an attempt has been made and post it on the internet.

I put up on this board many months ago a thread about Shane being forgotten in Sydney when he was a child. I think it was called OSA ANZO child neglect something like that. Well the strange thing is Shane told me he read it. Somebody on the RPF read an internet article, how did that happen?

Well apparently it had been saved onto the desktop of a computer he used for writting reports and he read it. OSA was obvioulsy paying attention.

The last letter I sent Shane was months ago and he had torn my address off the envelope and had kept it in his wallet all this time in case he needed it.

From that point onwards it took many months and he eventually came out.

So as in Fiona's case or anybody else who is having their contact denied or manipulated if all is failing get it on the net as you never know how or when they may stumble across it.

http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p ... post510940

Karen#1 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:07 am

Dorothy wrote:

Sponge wrote:

Remember that part of it is that, even if law enforcement decide that there is nothing further they can do at that time, you have at least let the person on the inside know that you haven't forgotten about them and, should the victim's doubts become more valid to them at any time, then they will at least remember that a particular relative is out there who could be called on for help.

Yes. And it needs to penetrate, with repeated and strong effort to get through, because just like a prisoner in a Communist concentration camp, Heber's brain has been re-wired to think differently than you or I. He no longer holds the same values he might have held at one time. One family member caring deeply about the welfare of another family member carries little to no value for Heber or anyone else in that hell-hole. One family member deeply caring about another ranks down at the bottom of the ocean, with the mollusks, in terms of "scientology values". These people are dealing with whole track issues and saving mankind. What is one (one lifetime) meat body relationship in that scheme of things?

Dorothy ~~

I was very pleased to learn that Heber snapped at DM in one incident of CRUELTY.
Because DM uses BRUTE force and STREET THUGGERY and always has a gang of supporters around him, (to overwhelm ~ a gang against one) most Sea Org Members just take the abuse (i.e the punchings and the beatings)
In this write-up Heber did finally SNAP.
I was proud of him for doing that.

Quote
Heber bore the brunt of much of Miscavige’s ire over the years. I have seen Miscavige strike Heber on at least 10 occasions. Miscavige had dolls made in the likeness of Heber (and me). These were very elaborate reproductions that looked like ventriloquists dolls. Miscavige would make Heber sit with the doll on his lap and Miscavige would address himself to the doll instead of talking to Heber directly. This was to demonstrate the “fact” that Miscavige thought Heber “wooden” and “unresponsive.” (Anyone who knows Heber can attest to how ridiculous this is). It is all part of Miscavige’s Joking & Degrading and constant denigration of people around him, especially those he considered were some form of threat (and Heber’s popularity with staff and public was a very real threat in Miscavige’s eyes).

The dolls were even flown to the UK for the IAS event where Heber endured endless cruel bullbaiting at the hands of Miscavige. I only saw Heber snap once, when after hours of Miscavige brand taunting and belittling ™, Miscavige squirted Heber’s face and glasses with contact lense fluid and then blew powdered coffee creamer into his face. This is the level of behavior of the so called “leader” of Scientology.

UNQUOTE

caroline · **Posted:** Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:28 pm

Why is it that we want to help Heber Jentzsch any more than we want to help my ex-husband, for example? Or David Miscavige? None of them seem to be asking for it.

Heber is one of the biggest liars, blowhards and bullies in Scientology. Miscaviges used and uses him because of those qualities, not because he was or is a good, honest, decent man. His CCHR madness was intended to prevent people from getting real mental health help. He obstructed justice. He attacked decent, innocent people. He defended and participated in a sociopathic system.

Where is the evidence that this guy has changed?

Smurf · **Joined:** Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:10 am **Posts:** 2681

I'mglib wrote:

You never know what might happen. I agree with Sponge that the attempt should be made. For instance, there's this (from Illegal Alien, who got his teenage son out of the RPF in Australia)

Laws in the U.S. are different than in the U.S. You could also get on your knees & pray to God to intervene. <yawn>.

I'mglib · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:17 pm **Posts:** 4970

What?

Did you read the part from Illegal Alien I quoted?

He sent his son a letter, and his son saved the return address.

He posted on the internet about his son, and his son saw it.

It has nothing to do with laws.

All of us understand that there's no magic bullet, but if we didn't believe that there was a chance that our actions could make a difference then we wouldn't be here. Including yourself.

Smurf · **Joined:** Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:10 am **Posts:** 2681

I'mglib wrote:

Did you read the part from Illegal Alien I quoted? He sent his son a letter, and his son saved the return address. He posted on the internet about his son, and his son saw it. It has nothing to do with laws.

All of us understand that there's no magic bullet, but if we didn't believe that there was a chance that our actions could make a difference then we wouldn't be here. Including yourself.

Good point, Glib. What you & others need to understand that what transpired in the Aussie case was very unique in that the son actually received the letter from his father. The son was also with an org & not posted at Gold Base & Twin Peaks where mail is intercepted, read and if found to be non-threatening to the cult, passed onto the member. (They claim that opening people's mail, though a violation of federal law, are for security purposes because critics have been known to send poisonous powders, i.e., anthrax, through the mail.)

If the cult is aware that the member's family is critical of the cult, they will take aggressively take measures to prevent communications, by telephone & mail.

Yes, you can always try, but for those of us that have travelled down that road before, it is easy to be cynical. It's like when anons on WWP created the postcard campaign.. mailing postcards to Gold Base members knowing that federal laws prohibited the cult from tampering with the mail..<yeah right> or tossing the postcards over the fence at Gold Base... I laughed my head off to the stupidity of all that... none of those post cards got into the hands of members, except security & OSA staff.

I'mglib · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:17 pm **Posts:** 4970

Quote:

Why is it that we want to help Heber Jentzsch any more than we want to help my ex-husband, for example?

Quote:

Where is the evidence that this guy has changed?

These are tough questions indeed.

How to help Heber Jentzsch ?

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