Child sexual abuse and coverup in the Sea Org

caroline · **Posted:** Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:16 am

operatingwog wrote:

I have also wondered why Karen posts here. I think it may be with a view to trying to get scientology critics "on side" vis-a-vis Marty vs. Micavige.

However that may be I'm very conscious (now more than previously) what a terrible, destructive role the church of scientology has played in Karen's life and that of her son and ex-husband. Like many on this board, I don't distinguish -- as Karen does -- between Hubbard's scientology and Micavige's cult of scientology. But I don't think it's right to tell Karen where she should place the blame for her son's sexual abuse or the terrible things that have happened to Heber Jentzsch. I also don't think it's right to raise questions about the complicity of victims in this context. And I don't think Karen's courage should be overlooked simply because she continues to be a scientologist.

I was very heartened when Karen said on this board that she no longer adheres to scientology's view of psychiatry. That seems to me a bit step because there's no way to deny that that view of psychiatry was Hubbard's own. I'd hope that Karen would continue further down that path. But I can also see that she has to recover as best she can from a lifetime of cult abuse, and that that must be a painful process in many ways.

Karen's promotes herself as a "Specialist in fixing bogged cases and Reviews" which is the type of auditing that would address abuses by DM, etc. Karen's solution for herself and other victims of Scientology abuse is more Scientology. That is wrong. Whatever pain and suffering Karen is enduring, and I do accept that she must still be suffering, because Scientology DOES NOT WORK, the larger picture is that her solution for herself and for MANY OTHERS does not resolve these matters but further victimizes people. That is what I care about.

tamasin-sp · **Posted:** Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:34 am

Seriously, none of you here have any idea what it was like on the the Apollo.The children were neglected, big time.You fended for yourself. The parents were so busy saving the fucking planet from unknown sources, the CIA, the FBI, the Psychs, the Bankers, Governments, they were all aliens and we were supposedly some kind of elite force.

What a load of bollachs! Seriously.

The children got up to all kinds of shit, because they knew no better, there were NO parents looking after the children. The parents were too god damned busy saving the planet.From what? I'm still here!

It does not surprise me all these years later to find stuff like this, it upsets me, but it is not surprising.

[url]http:/www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/childabuse/[/url]

tamasin-sp · **Posted:** Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:48 am

Caroline wrote:

Quote:

Karen's promotes herself as a "Specialist in fixing bogged cases and Reviews" which is the type of auditing that would address abuses by DM, etc. Karen's solution for herself and other victims of Scientology abuse is more Scientology. That is wrong. Whatever pain and suffering Karen is enduring, and I do accept that she must still be suffering, because Scientology DOES NOT WORK, the larger picture is that her solution for herself and for MANY OTHERS does not resolve these matters but further victimizes people. That is what I care about.

More Scientology will not help what Scientology has done to destroy people, ruin childrens lives, deprive them of parents, because they were too intent on getting auditing and saving the planet from all the supposed enemies, that did not even exist initially. L. Ron Hubbard was not stupid, he was cold, calculating, manipulative and did not want people to be happy, because he wasn't.

You cannot fix a bogged down case, when you are the one that has bogged it down.

operatingwog · **Joined:** Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:32 pm **Posts:** 500

caroline wrote:

Karen's promotes herself as a "Specialist in fixing bogged cases and Reviews" which is the type of auditing that would address abuses by DM, etc. Karen's solution for herself and other victims of Scientology abuse is more Scientology. That is wrong. Whatever pain and suffering Karen is enduring, and I do accept that she must still be suffering, because Scientology DOES NOT WORK, the larger picture is that her solution for herself and for MANY OTHERS does not resolve these matters but further victimizes people. That is what I care about.

I care about that too. I hope one day Karen will be able to make sense of her experiences in scientology without using scientology to do so.

Wieber · **Joined:** Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm **Posts:** 8449

People who have left scientology but hold onto Hubbard as infallible leader and man's best friend go through an agony. At least I did, and I think I'm not alone with it. In scientology they have been hurt, betrayed, and treated unjustly, among other things. Yeah, yeah, speak for yourself. Some of what Karen has written on the board suggests she has experienced that kind of thing. I'm pretty sure many others have as well.

So here's how this agony played out for me. A memory of an instance of mistreatment within the scientology milieu would come to mind along with the damaging consequences of that instance. (For me, there are many such instances.) Of course the individuals who dispensed injustice and abuse were never L. Ron Hubbard. He was somewhere else living in luxury and eating the best food while being mankind's greatest friend. He was source. He was the ultimate ethical being in the universe.

So along with the memory of the injustice and abuse would come the questions as to why that happened and how it could have happened. Following that would be all kinds of reasons stemming from L. Ron Hubbard's writings. This would include data series analysis, PTS/SP materials, misunderstood words, tech or policy not applied or misapplied, and on and on searching for a "why" and a "who." Going through all that was emotionally painful.

Well alright, let's put some of what Stephen Hawking has written to work on this.

in The Grand Design Stephen Hawking wrote:

To deal with such paradoxes we shall adopt an approach that we call model-dependent realism. It is based on the idea that our brains interpret the input from our sensory organs by making a model of the world. When such a model is successful at explaining events, we tend to attribute to it, and to the elements and concepts that constitute it, the quality or reality of absolute truth. But there may be different ways in which one could model the same physical situation, with each employing different fundamental elements and concepts. If two such physical theories or models accurately predict the same events, one cannot be said to be more real than the other; rather, we are free to use whichever model is most convenient.

Further on in The Grand Design Stephen Hawking wrote:

A model is a good model if it:
1. Is elegant.
2. Contains few arbitrary or adjustable elements.
3. Agrees with and explains all existing observations.
4. Makes detailed predictions about future observations that can disprove of falsify the model if they are not borne out.

I suggest that the model upheld by those still involved with scientology, whether in or out of Miscavige's sphere of influence is that Hubbard was and is god, or at least god like and from that the elements and concepts of his writings and lectures are therefore immutable and infallible. But that model does not explain the abuses and injustices within scientology. Furthermore if that model were true then no abuses and injustices could happen within scientology's milieu. Still further to that David Miscavige, who was personally selected by Hubbard as his replacement, would then be the perfect man for the world, not just for scientology.

Here's my model. L. Ron Hubbard was a psychopath and the elements and concepts of his writings and lectures were designed to enslave, control and abuse, while bringing wealth and luxury to L. Ron Hubbard.

If a person who has been involved in scientology considers that model and applies it to the injustices and abuses they have suffered I think they will find a resolution to many of their conflicting perceptions of what happened while they were involved with scientology.

peter · **Posted:** Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:06 am

Operatingwog wrote;

Quote:

I don't think it's right to tell Karen where she should place the blame for her son's sexual abuse or the terrible things that have happened to Heber Jentzsch. I also don't think it's right to raise questions about the complicity of victims in this context.

Soderqvist1: No!
It is posted in the Opinion and Debate!
The case is in public domain and too many ex-scientologists are reading here who could be influenced by her to believe that it is Miscavige ’s “out-scientology”, and all will be fine when we go back and be more on source. That is an insult to all who has been victimized under Hubbard. Its good to have the tamasin-sp here, or Sharone Stainforth, and others eyewitness about it. We don’t use Doctor Joseph Mengele’ scientific findings on Jews in Auschwitz, scientology is build upon "bloods money", it is unethical to have anything to do with it. Karen why do you ignore what did going on under Hubbard? Why do you use a technology which is build upon "bloods money"?
http://www.scnforum.org/index.php?t=msg ... #msg_11027

caroline · **Posted:** Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:30 pm

Please consider how The Code of A Scientologist directs Scientologists to behave in ways that would make them complicit in Carmen Rainer's victimization, for example.

L. Ron Hubbard wrote:

THE CODE OF A SCIENTOLOGIST
JULY 1954
Creation of Human Ability

As a Scientologist, I pledge myself to the Code of Scientology for the good of all.

1. To hear or speak no word of disparagement to the press, public or preclears concerning any of my fellow Scientologists, our professional organization or those whose names are closely connected to this science.

Hubbard, L. (2007 ed.) Scientology 0-8 The Book of Basics. Los Angeles: Bridge Publications, Inc.

More doctrinal codes here that support Scientologists' complicity in covering up Scientology-generated crimes:

L. Ron Hubbard wrote:

CREDO OF A TRUE GROUP MEMBER

A group member must exert and insist upon his rights and prerogatives as a group member and insist upon the rights and prerogatives of the group as a group and let not these rights be diminished in any way or degree for any excuse or claimed expeditiousness.

Hubbard, L. (2007 ed.) Scientology 0-8 The Book of Basics. Los Angeles: Bridge Publications, Inc.

L. Ron Hubbard wrote:

THE CREDO OF A GOOD AND SKILLED MANAGER

3 He must embrace the organization and act solely for the entire organization and never form or favor cliques. His judgment of individuals of the group should be solely in the light of their worth to the entire group.

4 He must never falter in sacrificing individuals to the good of the group, both in planning and execution and in his justice.

Hubbard, L. (2007 ed.) Scientology 0-8 The Book of Basics. Los Angeles: Bridge Publications, Inc.

L. Ron Hubbard wrote:

THE CODE OF HONOR
Never fear to hurt another in a just cause.

Hubbard, L. (2007 ed.) Scientology 0-8 The Book of Basics. Los Angeles: Bridge Publications, Inc.

Additionally, the crime against Carmen, and the "handling" of that crime would be a Matter of RTC Concern. Reports of this matter must have been made and gone up lines to RTC by standard channels.

rtc.org wrote:

MATTERS OF RTC CONCERN
Such reports also are invaluable to Religious Technology Center and its Inspector General Network. As the owner of the Scientology trademarks, RTC is the protector of the Scientology religion. The Inspector General Network of RTC is an independent investigatory and policing body whose function is to keep Scientology working by ensuring the pure and ethical use of Dianetics and Scientology technology.

There are certain matters of particular importance and concern to RTC as provided here on a detailed list. [1]Whenever these occur, copies of your reports should also be sent to RTC. RTC’s Inspector General Network uses such reports to help locate hidden suppression, infiltration, subversion or corruption within and external to Scientology Churches, Missions and other Church organizations — to protect The Bridge for all.

In some cases, had alert and caring Scientologists not reported a situation to the Inspector General Network, it could have taken longer to detect a suppressive. But thanks to reports received, suppression often has been more rapidly detected and rooted out, and standard tech and policy restored.

rtc.org. (1996-2008). Retrieved on 16 June 2011 from http://www.rtc.org/matters/index.html

[1] http://www.rtc.org/matters/ethics.html

By Scientology scripture (HCOPL Knowledge Reports) anyone who knew of the crime and didn't report it is deemed an accessory to the crime, and is also a Matter of RTC Concern, so Scientology will be able to produce an excellent record of the whole matter, and all the steps they took that made mere wog law unnecessary.

Scientology “justice” codes act to prevent unflattering or otherwise negative information coming out into the public and to punish those who dare to speak out against its abuses. The following High Crimes or “Suppressive Acts” list some of the behaviors that trigger Scientology’s severe penalties and fair game practices:

L. Ron Hubbard wrote:

SUPPRESSIVE ACTS

Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce or impede Scientology or Scientologists.

Such suppressive acts include:

[…]

Public disavowal of Scientology or Scientologists in good standing with Scientology organizations.

Public statements against Scientology or Scientologists but not to Committees of Evidence duly convened.

Proposing, advising or voting for legislation or ordinances, rules or laws directed toward the suppression of Scientology.

Pronouncing Scientologists guilty of the practice of standard Scientology.

Testifying hostilely before state or public inquiries into Scientology to suppress it.

Reporting or threatening to report Scientology or Scientologists to civil authorities in an effort to suppress Scientology or Scientologists from practicing or receiving standard Scientology.

Bringing civil suit against any Scientology organization or Scientologist, including the nonpayment of bills or failure to refund, without first calling the matter to the attention of the International Justice Chief and receiving a reply.

Hubbard, L. R. (1965, 23 December). Suppressive Acts Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists. (Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter). The Organization Executive Course (1991 ed., Vol. 1, pp. 873-889). Los Angeles: Bridge Publications, Inc.

The Scientology personnel charged with interacting with public officials, governments, tax matters and courts come under the Office of Special Affairs (Department 20). (Ref. Hubbard, L. R. (1960, 15 August). Department of Government Affairs.) These personnel’s assigned “valuable final product” is “Handled situations which result in the total acceptance of Scientology and its Founder throughout the area.” (Ref. Executive Division Seven Organizing Board.)

According to extant Hubbard policy, all matters relating to legal, tax, city ordinances, litigation or government goes first to the Legal Officer in Department 20.

L. Ron Hubbard wrote:

The purpose of the Legal Officer is to help LRH handle every legal, government, suit, accounting and tax contact or action for the organization and by himself or employed representative, to protect the organization and its people from harm and to bring the greatest possible confusion and loss to its enemies.

Hubbard, L. R. (1966, 3 February). Legal, Tax, Accountant and Solicitor Mail and Legal Officer. The Organization Executive Course Executive Division (1991 ed., Vol. 7, pp. 1081-1082). Los Angeles: Bridge Publications, Inc.

skeptic2girl · **Joined:** Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:14 am **Posts:** 1041

caroline wrote:

Senator Xenophon wrote:

The widespread allegations of abuse and criminality are incredibly serious and warrant serious and immediate investigation," he said.

"Too many victims of Scientology have spoken out for this issue to be ignored any longer. A judicial inquiry would not simply identify any wrongdoing, it would also be able to look into whether that wrongdoing was systemic and organised," he said.

Xenophon accompanied the girl at the centre of the allegations to the police station when she made her complaint against Eastgate.

Rourke, A. (2011, 15 June). Scientologist 'coached child to lie about sexual abuse'. guardian.co.uk.Retrieved on 15 June 2011 from http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/15/scientologist-girl-lie-abuse-allegation

Senator Xenophon, in taking the extraordinary step to personally accompany Carmen to the police, demonstrated to the world one of the incredible obstacles Scientology victims must overcome in obtaining justice.

Thank you Senator, for raising the necessary question about whether the wrongdoing is systemic and organized. Now we're getting somewhere.

Anyone else surprised Senator Xenophon isn't featured front-and-center on Religious Freedom Watch? I mean, they have Anderson Cooper, and I'm sure he's scared sh**less... :roll:

caroline · **Posted:** Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:16 pm

skeptic2girl wrote:

Anyone else surprised Senator Xenophon isn't featured front-and-center on Religious Freedom Watch? I mean, they have Anderson Cooper, and I'm sure he's scared sh**less... :roll:

Hi, skeptic2girl. Religious Freedom Watch's database of "anti-religious extremists" and "false experts" doesn't represent Scientology's db of enemies or "enemies." It's just the black PR that Joel Phillips put up, apparently in service of Invest OSA Int, for purposes which wouldn't necessarily include scaring these people "sh**less," but undoubtedly do include discrediting some witnesses of Scientology abuses. Gerry wrote more about this in a 2006 letter to DM.

Dorothy · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:43 pm

I know a child who was sexually abused when they were very young. IMO it happened because the child's parents were both working in scientology 90 hours per week and were not around to see the symptoms or indications that the child was being abused. The abuser was a scientologist. When the child finally spoke up about it, the abuser was handled internally (within scientology) and no authorities were involved. From all the personal accounts, this seems to be the pattern.

Scientology seems to have as many (if not more) child sex abuse perpetrators as "wogs" (people outside scientology). The anti-family environment within scientology (I can personally vouch for that statement!!!) seems conducive to such acts of abuse against children because the families are often estranged and/or physically separated (for example Sea Org children living in "Cadet Org" berthing). All intimate relationships of scientologists are strictly monitored and controlled by the church's ethics department. This is a fact. Nothing of importance can happen within a family that a case supervisor or ethics officer does not know about. Scientology's "big brother" apparatus takes care of everything, especially instances of child molestation which are viewed as nothing more than potential PR flaps. It will be no problem proving this in a court of law. JE is going down, and hopefully DM will be next in line to walk the plank.

caroline · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:03 pm

Dorothy wrote:

Scientology's "big brother" apparatus takes care of everything, especially instances of child molestation which are viewed as nothing more than potential PR flaps.

No, instances of child molestation, and cover-up, are Matters of RTC concern.

Regarding Ethics Matters of RTC Concern, rtc.org wrote:

ETHICS

Any suppressive act against Scientology or Scientologists as listed in HCO PLs and HCOBs.

[...]

Any felony against person or property, threatened or accomplished.

Anyone forbidding or advising against the writing of Knowledge Reports.

Anyone forbidding or advising one not to send Knowledge Reports to RTC.

Anyone advocating or inducing you or another to do something illegal.

[...]

Sexual or sexually perverted conduct contrary to the well-being or good state of mind of a Scientologist in good standing or under the charge of Scientology, such as a student or preclear.

[...]

Instigation of destructive activities.

Any actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce or impede Scientology or Scientologists, such as the suppressive acts/high crimes listed in HCO PL 7 March 1965RB, SUPPRESSIVE ACTS, SUPPRESSION OF SCIENTOLOGY AND SCIENTOLOGISTS, HCO PL 10 September 1983, PTSNESS AND DISCONNECTION, and any crime listed in HCO PL 7 March 1965RA, Issue III, OFFENSES AND PENALTIES which has been reclassed as a high crime due to it being severe, of magnitude, harmful to many and committed repeatedly.

Retrieved on 20 June 2011 from http://www.rtc.org/matters/ethics.html

Dorothy · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:11 pm

According to your source, Caroline, then it would have been someone in RTC who would have given orders to Jan Eastgate, a question I had asked earlier. Thank you.

caroline · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:25 pm

Dorothy wrote:

According to your source, Caroline, then it would have been someone in RTC who would have given orders to Jan Eastgate, a question I had asked earlier. Thank you.

Scientologists at exec level who forward command intention (i.e., who "cooperate") don't really need orders. But they do need to report, especially on Matters of RTC Concern.

L. Ron Hubbard wrote:

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 5 MAY 1974

Remimeo

ORDERS

(Originally written by LRH for the Apollo OODs of 5 May 74. Issued as an HCO PL on 28 Aug. 80.)

Orders become necessary only when COOPERATION fails.

Cooperation fails by lack of understanding of the scene and the tech to make things go right. When people do not keep themselves informed of what's going on at the time, they don't understand the scene.

Thus they begin to demand orders.

Cooperation is senior to orders at all times. But "CO" means together. There isn't any together where there is no understanding of what's occurring. So cooperation depends upon being able to see and grasp the scene. And the tech to make things go right.

When I am asked for "orders" I know at once that understanding is missing.

Therefore initiative cannot be practiced-orders take its place.

So-what is going on? What are seniors or myself trying to accomplish or get done? What's the scene?

There is no real operation without co operation.

And the seat of one's pants planted in a chair in a course room will give you all the tech you ever heard of in any field including your hat.

These are the elements of success-being in the know on the current scene (not rumor but fact); seeing what tech one needs and getting it grasped fast; cooperation with the team.

If one did that he'd never hear an order (or get an ethics condition) for months-and he'd be soaring.

L. RON HUBBARD
Founder

Hubbard, L. R. (1974, 5 May). Orders. The Organization Executive Course. (1991 ed., Vol 1, p. 144.) Los Angeles: Bridge Publications, Inc.

Dorothy · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:12 pm

True, but in this case, I'm sure the report was one of "compliance: situation handled, sir!". Although I'd love to see Jan Eastgate pay for the alleged crime, I hate to see her scapegoated by an organization whose command intention was (allegedly, but per policy) to shut the child up, cover up the man's crime and keep it all "in the family". I hope this case opens up an even bigger look into the activities of this organization. Can an organization legally have its own "system of Justice" that supersedes or overrides the state's system of justice? Apparently not in Aussieland.

caroline · **Posted:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:03 pm

Dorothy wrote:

True, but in this case, I'm sure the report was one of "compliance: situation handled, sir!"

"She over there, with the pink legs sticking out, didn't like me."

L. Ron Hubbard wrote:

When you're close to power, get some delegated to you-enough to do your job and protect yourself and your interests-for you· can be shot, fellow, shot, as the position near power is delicious but dangerous, dangerous always, open to the taunts of any enemy of the power who dare not really boot the power but can boot you. So to live at all in the shadow or employ of a power, you must yourself gather and USE enough power to hold your own-without just nattering to the power to "kill Pete," in straightforward or more suppressive veiled ways to him, as these wreck the power that supports yours. He doesn't have to know all the bad news, and if he's a power really, he won't ask all the time, "What are all those dead bodies doing at the door?" And if you are clever, you never let it be thought HE killed them-that weakens you and also hurts the power source. "Well, boss, about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn't like me." "Well," he'll say if he really is a power, "why are you bothering me with it if it's done and you did it. Where's my blue ink?" Or "Skipper, three shore patrolmen will be along soon with your cook, Dober, and they'll want to tell you he beat up Simson." "Who's Simson?" "He's a clerk in the enemy office downtown." "Good. When they've done it, take Dober down to the dispensary for any treatment he needs. Oh yes. Raise his pay." Or "Sir, could I have the power to sign divisional orders?" "Sure."

Hubbard, L. (1967, 12 February). Responsibilities of Leaders. Organization Executive Course (1991 ed., Vol 0 Basic Staff Hat, pp. 629-41)

Child sexual abuse and coverup in the Sea Org

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