Mark Bunker and Marty Rathbun Reveal their ties

Sponge · **Posted:** Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:58 am

Scientology Apocalypse! Mark Bunker and Marty Rathbun Reveal Their Ties
by Tony Ortega, Village Voice. 26th July 2011
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninsca ... gy_apo.php

Quote:

For Scientology watchers, a stunning development tonight that, not so long ago, we can hardly imagine happening.

Mark Bunker, dean of the old time Scientology critics, has written a guest poston Marty Rathbun's blog this evening -- well, I would be hardly more surprised if a Michael Wolff editorial appeared in tomorrow's Wall Street Journal with a glowing preface by Rupert Murdoch.

Rathbun, who not so many years ago was charged with keeping tabs on critics like Bunker in his role as one of the highest executives in Scientology, is well aware what a surprising turn this is:

"Whatever Mark Bunker's views, and whatever I may think of them, Mark Bunker is a decent, honest guy."

Rathbun, as inspector general of the Religious Technology Center, answered only to Scientology's ultimate leader, David Miscavige. As we've pointed out numerous times before, Rathbun was an enforcer, a fixer, and went after Scientology's perceived enemies seemingly with glee. But in 2004 he left the organization and then two years ago began suddenly speaking out against Miscavige at his blog, "Moving On Up a Little Higher."

Tonight, we learn the surprising secret that when Rathbun needed help setting up his blog, he received that help from an unlikely source: Mark Bunker.

(I am having deja vu: 12 years ago, when I wrote about Tory Christman leaving Scientology, what set her on the road to defection was in part some helpful tech advice from Operation Clambake operator Andreas Heldal-Lund. The web: its power is amazing.)

....continues in article link....

There's now a discusion thread in the Opinions & Debate section on this same topic:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36429

Braveheart's Girlfriend · **Joined:** Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:26 pm **Posts:** 1037

And why would it be wrong for someone like Mark Bunker to have helped Marty along the way? I don't think the analogy to Tory and Andreas is equivalent, but I do think the intentions were the same, and for that there is no better reason to help a person struggling to come to terms with having given a third of their life and more to a destructive cult.

I agree with Mark that Marty has done a lot to join the many long-term and hard working, committed efforts to expose Miscavige's criminal behavior in what is now a criminal organization in several critical aspects. Scientology, the corporate organization, hasn't changed, but the players in it have in this case. I'm interested to see what comes of this, if anything. Ideally, Marty will be more inclined to consider Hubbard's heinous intentions and completely uninformed, uneducated activities as he constructed this cult and manipulated others, like Marty and Mike, to take charge in fulfilling its ultimate goals. I don't know that Marty is still fascinated/seduced/mind controlled by those goals that we all abhor: criminal fascistic ideals. So far I would trust him this much: 1/4 inch, and hopefully that is all Mark is intending to do by this "merger."

I'm looking forward to reading what others have to say.

magoo1 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:37 am

For me it's a simple thing:

OSA's #1 goal on the Net IS: "Divide and Conquer"
Hubbard didn't make that up, it's from "The Art of War"
which IS their bible.

So when ever I see people who *basically* have very similar
goals (Getting people OUT of $cientology, or educating people
so they don't join)............whenever I see them against each
other, I feel bad as I know three things are happening, whether you
want to hear it, or not:

1) OSA is taking a big win on that. I know some have said to me
over the years: "I don't care what OSA thinks" and I understand that,
too. However, to win any game, one has to know your opponents
and know how they operate. In the final scheme of things, it *does*
matter, quite a bit.

2) We all fighting amongst each other diminishes our (We the critics
of $cientology, including Anonymous, X's, Critics, and Indies) power,
I feel. Trust me, I understand and know WELL that "we" isn't as if
any of us are a group. As Stacy told me 11 years ago, in 2000: "The
critics are like stray cats, and that is one of their strongest assets:
No one can find them". Still true, today. Meeeeoooooooooow. :mrgreen:

3) If fighting, certainly kindness has gone down the drain.
Seeing Mark helping Marty
I thought was fantastic. I know many people want various things
from Marty and Mike. My view: It's up to them how and what they
are going to do, same as it is for each of us. (Granted, people will say:
"We didn't do ____" I got that. How they handle their past is theirs
to work out and I'm sure they will, all in good time).

Right now? They *are*
helping get people out--per the ~~people's~~ own words, and that, to me
is very valuable. Just as I feel Anonymous created a safe space ((Safety
in numbers), whether they intended to or not, because of their very
presence around the world- so MANY people could finally come out, tell who they are, tell their stories, write books, etc.

In a totally different way, but sort of similar, I feel Marty and Mike
are creating a safe place for people to leave, per the people's own words.
I've heard others very real concerns, and those need to be addressed, too.
My deal is as long as anyone is helping either get people OUT of
C of $ or helping educate people on the abuses of $cientology so they
do not join.......I'll support them, as long as they are NOT doing the
abusive things. Marty and Mike are doing this, and I've met more than one
person who has told me they left due to Marty's blog. ((I've had many people
tell me they left because of Xenu.net, or Xenutv.com or because of Anonymous---or because of Arnie Lerma's Web site, or they saw my videos, ....etc.)) I say Great
on ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of it!!!!

That's my two cents. Please don't bash me. I've had
a difficult week, and I'm really not up for that. If you have a
personal issue with Marty or Mike, I say write to them, try talking
with them. I did--and to my great shock, Marty posted to me
"For Your Eyes Only" a 2006 program, 23 step program to
a) Slime me on the Net, posting lies and untruths so people wouldn't trust me.
b) Trash my name with the media
AND
c) get me fired from my job
This was a 23 step program, including hiring PI's.... in great
details for each one. For me, that was *great*. I know for others, who
know THEY have something similar on them, or worse, it won't be
so helpful, yet. But remember....and I believe this: It'll all unravel
soon.

Remember
what Andreas asked for originally: "Speak to each other
as if you were in my (Andreas') living room".

Love to you ALL :love5:

Tory/Magoo
http://www.youtube.com/ToryMagoo44

brownjedi · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:47 pm

I hope that your week improves Tori. We are on the verge of Friday Eve.

I agree that any division between critics is detrimental and a distraction to the movement. That said, I think there can be some lines drawn between these critical groups. Marty and those of his ilk are critical of current management, not so much against the tech. Ok get people out of the cult initially, even if they are LRH believers. Just getting them out is a step. I doubt whether Marty will ever consider or acknowledge that LRH set up the whole scam and that DM, while not source, is reaping the rewards as LRH set up this con. Marty needs to step up, be honest, and admit to the crimes against humanity that he participated in.

Others are critics of the church, its tech, and its way of business. I dont see these sides coming together, but we do need to not step on each others toes. We cant do OSA's job of making critics look bad.

magoo1 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:35 pm

Thanks, brownjedi :alien:

Quote:

We cant do OSA's job of making critics look bad.

True...they do that ALL by themselves, every day,
every hour almost!

Mark Bunker::: Good luck with your documentary. I hope you get ALL
the support you need to complete this. The effects of his documentary
shall be broad, I'm quite sure. :cheers:

My best to you and ALL :wink:

Tory/Magoo

bagelboi · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:51 pm

Hi everyone this is my first message here. I've lurked for a long time though, finally getting the nerve to register a few months ago.

I've decided to jump in now because Tory, your post above was inspiring to me and I had to tell you so. Thank you, it was such a win for me to read it, I felt a sharpening of my Theta perception. Or maybe it just made me feel really really good. We all win when we work together.

I was a public Scientologist for about eleven years, exiting in the mid-90's. I look forward to being part of the action here. I'm sorry I waited so long to find my voice.

Warmest regards,
Guy

Sponge · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:48 pm

Welcome to Operation Clambake Message Board, bagelboi.

brownjedi · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:00 am

Welcome BB, feel free to share from your experiences as you feel comfortable.

Dorothy · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:13 am

bagelboi wrote:

Hi everyone this is my first message here. I've lurked for a long time though, finally getting the nerve to register a few months ago.

I've decided to jump in now because Tory, your post above was inspiring to me and I had to tell you so. Thank you, it was such a win for me to read it, I felt a sharpening of my Theta perception. Or maybe it just made me feel really really good. We all win when we work together.

I was a public Scientologist for about eleven years, exiting in the mid-90's. I look forward to being part of the action here. I'm sorry I waited so long to find my voice.

Warmest regards,
Guy

The mid-90's was a good time for a public scientologist to leave. Right after you left, things got even crazier for your kind. Here's a few highlights:

_ Late 90's: David Miscavige made up a whole new definition for "floating needle" and released his very own technical bulletin about it. This new definition made auditing take 10 times longer and so you had to spend 10 times the money to get the same number of steps done as before, and you didn't even feel as good afterwards.

_ Then, David Miscavige released his very own technical bulletins about the grades and about clear, and that also helped slow auditing down to a crawl and made sure nobody completed anything without spending at least 10 times the money.

_ Then, early 2000's, Tom Cruise made his crazy acceptance speech/video (for the freedumb medal) where he nails the entire populace of scientology for not "doing KSW". He gets everyone in the field writing KRs on each other for "out KSW" if they aren't doing scientology the "Tommy Cruise way". I was still in at the time, but I barfed anyway and thought TC was an A-Hole for his retarded speech, even though technically I wasn't allowed to think those thoughts.

_ Then, mid 2000's, everyone was made to buy all the basic books all over again and you also had to do all the new basic book courses before you could continue with any program you were on. Before that it was the "Congresses" (a series of lectures costing about 2K that everyone had to do). Lots and lots of extra stuff to do and re-do, plus lots more money to spend for stuff you probably already did.

_ Then, late 2000's, everyone gets weekly crush regging for Ideal Org donations. If you refuse to mortgage your house, beg, borrow or steal to donate, you are not a "team player", and you are not with the "in" crowd in scientology. If you refuse to get with the program and support the org by showing up at the weekly Ideal Org events, dress up in funny costumes and act like you are happy that you are being sucked dry for every cent you can somehow get your hands on, you might even get pulled in and questioned, for you've got "bad indicators".

_ If you live in Clearwater, same crush regging for Super Empty Power building donations.

Anyhow, glad you're out and welcome to the bake.

Don Carlo · **Joined:** Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am **Posts:** 8093

CoS started requiring members to sign The Lisa McPherson Clause* around the year 2000

Quote:

...with this form, Scientology is saying it has the right to kidnap and hold a mentally disturbed member at any time

**

* Critics' name for it. Form is at http://jeta.home.xs4all.nl/scn/scans/In ... lease.html

** Discussion at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Scientolog ... ction.html

Mark Bunker and Marty Rathbun Reveal their ties

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