...effectively destroy the foundations of our concept of "person"
Nothing is destroyed by telling the truth about this. It just means that one has to re-think this.
According to Russell, god is as real as a teapot between Earth and Mars.
But have you ever looked inside of your brain to find "you" in there? From the same perspective for which god is not real, you are not real either.
So how can something that is not real be made accountable for something?
For example, for murder.
What if there is nothing in your brain that can be made accountable... it all happens just like rain, water flowing down the river, apples falling from the tree. Complete non-intentionality: That is what science is working toward according to it's own a-priori removal of anything "subjective".
Our interior perspective and the impression of free will that we live our lives by will not go away, no matter how irrelevant science might want to make it seem in order to get it out of the way so that it can complete its universe of "objective" causality.
I beg to differ. There is no such thing as TOTAL free will.
Take a look at this (watch the whole thing):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0J4F_UEs94
Derren Brown would show you anything if it just catches your attention.
I don't see any scientific basis for free will either. But I definitely experience it. For example, I am choosing to write this comment right now. Try to explain that one away if you will
But of course our "subconsciousness" is very strong, and religion is one way of getting in contact with it.
Whether you believe there actually is a connection to something larger through it, or whether you think it is just a gigantic unknown entity inside of ourselves that we have the most intimate connection with.
Okay. You tell me what you mostly rely upon when you want the truth.
Tell me what you rely upon to get to the truth on anything.
I do like to quote Paul Feyerabend in this case, who said: "Anything Goes". Whatever is the strongest and most workable thing is what we do.
Of course empirical science is really great! It's just that there are things I am dealing with (such as my relationship to my unconscious for example) that science doesn't provide me an answer for. Instead, it pushes me out of my brain and says I don't really matter.
...hello? I'm still here. (...and will be with some luck for the next 40-60 years... Sorry.)
Please don't play that "fundamentalism" card.
That's a "cop out" if I ever heard one.
(Sorry for being so blunt.)
Well, science only allows a very specific set of methodologies to get to "the way things really work". They involve graphs, formulas, equations etc.
It is in fact quite fundamentalist this way. Storytelling, artistic expression, music, dance, chanting, a good dinner, flowers, and a lot of other things are not permitted, yet very relevant to my life.
That is why I would call the scientific method a fundamentalistic ideology.
I like it, but I also like to find some nice looking chrysanthemes.
Of course it can all be delegated to evolution somehow. That might be fascinating, but don't forget the flowers over it, here they are!! yay
No worries about the bluntness, I know these discussions can get quite passionate! We should probably continue this somewhere else, the last thing I would want is to water this board down with meaningless discussions, or to sound apologetic toward "Hubbard".imho attacking Scientology through an acceptance of its self-labeling as "religion" - (by saying all religions are nonsense and unnecessary because we now have science) - is a dangerous and potentially hurtful path.
I would rather frame it as a totalitarian mind-ideology, and its primary outcome is the surrendering of control over one's life/wallet/family to the Scientology organization.
Just my 5 cent...