One opened, more to come!
It is currently Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:12 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:09 pm
Posts: 10211
Location: Los Feliz, California
Carisa Marion came out today on Marty's blog: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/1 ... /#comments

1. Carisa Marion appears to have written the KR that got Tommy Davis busted. Imagine the furor inside of OSA if she posts that KR online! Do it Carisa!

2. Carisa got a refund from the Cult after nine months and is now publicly saying she will show other Indies how to follow the same path. She has lawyers in Florida that know how to get refunds.

3. She gave interviews to the St. Pete Times on its current expose of the Money Machine of Scientology.

4. Carisa's translation of "serving LRH" is to publicly fight the Cult:

Quote:
I’m still on post and I’m still working for LRH. They know I’m not going away. Okay you guys, are we ready to take it to the next level or what?!!! Anyone can reach me at

carisamarion@gmail.com

ref: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/1 ... /#comments

It seems that "Serving LRH" and "KSW" translates among the Indies as:

A. Blowing the Cult and publicly exposing its lies, crimes, and treacheries.

B. Whistle-blowing on Tommy Davis and other top execs so that they get RPF'd.

C. Helping others who have blown to get big dollar refunds.

D. Giving the insane David Miscavige a continuing flood of well-deserved bad PR, Hill 10's, and flapping flaps.

These forms of "Serving LRH" and "KSW" are quite different from the ways these doctrines are practiced inside of the Cult.

*****
Two notes on the Karmic Vortex:

The Scientology Diaspora of 2009 has turned into a Torrent of Scientologists blowing and going public. Indie or not, people are leaving the Cult. My prediction is that members blowing will Hyper-Accelerate in 2012 in a way that the Cult has never seen.

According to my Karmic Clock it is now 11:45 PM inside of the Cult.


/////

_________________
Image

http://www.youtube.com/user/SurvivingScientology
http://www.survivingscientologyradio.com/
http://scientologymoneyproject.com/
contact: scienowriter@gmail.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:32 pm
Posts: 513
J. Swift wrote:
It seems that "Serving LRH" and "KSW" translates among the Indies as:

A. Blowing the Cult and publicly exposing its lies, crimes, and treacheries.

B. Whistle-blowing on Tommy Davis and other top execs so that they get RPF'd.

C. Helping others who have blown to get big dollar refunds.

D. Giving the insane David Miscavige a continuing flood of well-deserved bad PR, Hill 10's, and flapping flaps.



Swift if you actually think this is true then you are delusional. The indies regard themselves as scientologists, not squirrels. They don't translate KSW. They adhere to it. The fact that they regard David Miscavige as an SP doesn't change that.

Aside from that, I don't think an opponent of scientology abuses should be quite so keen on people being RPFed.

_________________
“These guys are crazy. And all of this shit is straight out of the L. Ron Hubbard playbook. That’s their scriptures. They say they’re not a turn-the-other-cheek religion. No. They’re a knock-you-down-and-kick-you-in-the-balls religion.” Jason Beghe


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:03 pm
Posts: 1950
Location: Kansas
The War between Indies and Churchies is a War of scientologist vs. scientologist. It is a rebellion. I see the Indies as the Idealists and the Churchies as the Cultists. Even when I was in many years ago, it seemed like there were two groups within the church, and one group translated Lron differently than the other. One group's intent was to help people and make a better world, and their translation aligned with that. The other group got into other drives: there were people on power trips, ego trips, political flunkies, brown-nosers, a few sociopaths, drama queens who fell victim to the others, sheep, wolves, and everything in between.

Apparently some critics see all scientologists as the same, and do not accept that there could be any difference from one scientologist to the next. That is stereotyping in my book.

Carisa seems to have some real balls and I respect that. I think it's ironic that what the Church wants is for those who leave to just "shut up and go away", and not do any any more scientology, and apparently what some critics want, is exactly the same thing: for a scientologist who leaves to just "shut up and go away", and not do any more scientology. As if that is supposed to be "better" than what some of these Indies are doing. Meh. Critics perfectly aligned with CoS goals. How stupid imo.

_________________
“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
― Hannah Arendt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:40 am
Posts: 2121
Location: Los Angeles, CA
There are Indies that are asking for their $$$ money back.
But the Church is playing hardball, hanging on to the $$$$$ tight.

FSO in response to her Advanced Payment Repayment Request.


The current C of $ indulges in Grand Theft and Fraud. NOTE : This request was UNUSED advanced payment.

Image

Image

There is actual Church policy to refund unused monies.
It was also part of the IRS final agreements granting the 501C3 status.

This person was DECLARED Suppressive person ~~ but the "CHURCH" keeps the
substantial amount of $$$$$$$$$. It's all about the CASH !

_________________
Radio Podcasts
http://www.survivingscientologyradio.com/
Follow me on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/karendelac
Follow me on Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/KarendlaCariere
Follow me on Google+ - +SurvivingScientology/posts


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:09 pm
Posts: 5170
Location: Bondi Beach
operatingwog wrote:
J. Swift wrote:
It seems that "Serving LRH" and "KSW" translates among the Indies as:

A. Blowing the Cult and publicly exposing its lies, crimes, and treacheries.

B. Whistle-blowing on Tommy Davis and other top execs so that they get RPF'd.

C. Helping others who have blown to get big dollar refunds.

D. Giving the insane David Miscavige a continuing flood of well-deserved bad PR, Hill 10's, and flapping flaps.



Swift if you actually think this is true then you are delusional. The indies regard themselves as scientologists, not squirrels. They don't translate KSW. They adhere to it. The fact that they regard David Miscavige as an SP doesn't change that.

Aside from that, I don't think an opponent of scientology abuses should be quite so keen on people being RPFed.


This^

_________________
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:32 pm
Posts: 513
Dorothy wrote:
The War between Indies and Churchies is a War of scientologist vs. scientologist. It is a rebellion. I see the Indies as the Idealists and the Churchies as the Cultists. Even when I was in many years ago, it seemed like there were two groups within the church, and one group translated Lron differently than the other. One group's intent was to help people and make a better world, and their translation aligned with that. The other group got into other drives: there were people on power trips, ego trips, political flunkies, brown-nosers, a few sociopaths, drama queens who fell victim to the others, sheep, wolves, and everything in between.

Apparently some critics see all scientologists as the same, and do not accept that there could be any difference from one scientologist to the next. That is stereotyping in my book.

Carisa seems to have some real balls and I respect that. I think it's ironic that what the Church wants is for those who leave to just "shut up and go away", and not do any any more scientology, and apparently what some critics want, is exactly the same thing: for a scientologist who leaves to just "shut up and go away", and not do any more scientology. As if that is supposed to be "better" than what some of these Indies are doing. Meh. Critics perfectly aligned with CoS goals. How stupid imo.


Dorothy I don't know who you would identify as belonging to the group of "some critics" who see all scientologists as the same and/or who are aligned with CoS goals in wanting ex-CoS members to be non-critical of current leadership. I haven't come across anyone on this board who appears to me to belong to this group.

(In case you're thinking I do, I should just tell you that I don't. I do think it's good when the abuses of CoS are criticised, whether by scientologists or by others. Who wouldn't? I do think there are big differences between scientologists. Who wouldn't? I do agree that [inevitably] scientologists interpret LRH by their own lights, regardless of whether or not they accept that they do this. I do believe in freedom of belief and practise within the boundaries of appropriate laws. I merely object to Swift's attempt to present the indie scientologists as something they're patently not, in the face of clear evidence to the contrary.)

_________________
“These guys are crazy. And all of this shit is straight out of the L. Ron Hubbard playbook. That’s their scriptures. They say they’re not a turn-the-other-cheek religion. No. They’re a knock-you-down-and-kick-you-in-the-balls religion.” Jason Beghe


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:40 am
Posts: 2121
Location: Los Angeles, CA
♥♥♥♥ DOROTHY ♥♥♥♥

I applaud you for being able to distinguish your

IDENTITIES, SIMILARITIES and DIFFERENCES !

Good on ya ! :D :D :D

_________________
Radio Podcasts
http://www.survivingscientologyradio.com/
Follow me on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/karendelac
Follow me on Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/KarendlaCariere
Follow me on Google+ - +SurvivingScientology/posts


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:03 pm
Posts: 1950
Location: Kansas
operatingwog wrote:
J. Swift wrote:
It seems that "Serving LRH" and "KSW" translates among the Indies as:

A. Blowing the Cult and publicly exposing its lies, crimes, and treacheries.

B. Whistle-blowing on Tommy Davis and other top execs so that they get RPF'd.

C. Helping others who have blown to get big dollar refunds.

D. Giving the insane David Miscavige a continuing flood of well-deserved bad PR, Hill 10's, and flapping flaps.



Swift if you actually think this is true then you are delusional. The indies regard themselves as scientologists, not squirrels. They don't translate KSW. They adhere to it. The fact that they regard David Miscavige as an SP doesn't change that.

Aside from that, I don't think an opponent of scientology abuses should be quite so keen on people being RPFed.

OW, I'm trying to understand what you are saying. I'm trying to "translate" your words into something meaningful to me. I'm not trying to misunderstand you.

I don't understand why you think J. Swift is "delusional", for writing A, B, C, D above. If I read you correctly, if what he wrote was "delusional", therefore crazy, then the opposite of what he wrote would be the actual truth or reality? So you see it this way:

Indies not applying KSW or serving LRH; not exposing lies; not whistle-blowing on people like TD; not getting refunds; not helping to ruin DM's PR in the news :?: Please clarify, you are causing confusion.

operatingwog wrote:
They don't translate KSW. They adhere to it.
Isn't translation a necessary step before adhering? How does one adhere without first translating?

I disagree with you there. Every person who reads KSW translates it for themselves. For example, if you read it, and I read it, we might both come up with something different, based upon our different experiences, background, and much more that goes into the translation process. I translate it differently now, than I did when I was in, and my translation of it continues to evolve as time goes on. You have no idea what KSW 1 means to any Indie. It might mean different things to each individual.

operatingwog wrote:
Dorothy I don't know who you would identify as belonging to the group of "some critics" who see all scientologists as the same and/or who are aligned with CoS goals in wanting ex-CoS members to be non-critical of current leadership. I haven't come across anyone on this board who appears to me to belong to this group.

(In case you're thinking I do, I should just tell you that I don't. I do think it's good when the abuses of CoS are criticised, whether by scientologists or by others. Who wouldn't? I do think there are big differences between scientologists. Who wouldn't? I do agree that [inevitably] scientologists interpret LRH by their own lights, regardless of whether or not they accept that they do this. I do believe in freedom of belief and practise within the boundaries of appropriate laws. I merely object to Swift's attempt to present the indie scientologists as something they're patently not, in the face of clear evidence to the contrary.)

You are very confused about Mr. Swift. He is not the one presenting Indie scientologists as something they are patently not. And I have no idea of that "evidence" you are talking about. Here's my evidence: There is a bandwagon that some critics jump on imo. I probably jumped up on it too occasionally and probably Swift as well. At least if you search my posts, you'll find statements that support the bandwagon "think" I'm talking about. I can't really speak for Swift but I can speak for myself. As I see it the bandwagon's position is: there is nothing good in the scientology doctrine, it is (all of it) dangerous and evil, it is capable of causing psychotic and sociopathic behavior, when one becomes a scientologist, when one reads KSW and adheres to it, they can no longer be trusted because they are now a "Ronbot" and nothing else. It doesn't matter that they are fighting the abuses of CoS, it is assumed that because they "adhere to KSW" they will perpetuate the exact same abuses (hence, can't be trusted or supported). I'm not saying the "Ronbot" mentality does not exist, clearly it does. I could go but that's enough for now.

For example, Alert keeps BAWWING about the fact that J. Swift has "changed". He's clearly very upset about this and never misses an opportunity to BAW about it liberally. Why? Because J. Swift has jumped off the bandwagon. You asked "who I would identify", well, I'm in the process of identifying. I recently placed Gerry, Caroline, Alert and Gumby together for a reason. They seem to adhere to the above way of thinking, and Gerry and Caroline are its ideological leaders. If you support Indies, you automatically support scientology and its abuses. If you support Indies, then you support the Fair Gaming of Gerry. Do you see how ridiculous it can get? Hence the terms "apologist" and "sympathizer" that are so easily bantered about. They will claim that they don't care about or belong to any "faction" one way or the other, yet they are the ones polarizing critics and creating their own ideological faction. I have no problem with someone having a position or way of thinking. But when anyone who fails to adhere to their position continually gets called names such as "delusional", I have a problem with that. If you want to debate a point, then debate it. But I don't see the people doing the name calling coming up with any coherent discussion.

You must know by now that I support all critics coming together to fight scientology's abuses, whether those abuses occur in or outside of any institutionalized structure. Together critics can become a powerful force against scientology's abuse. Divided, critics spend too much time arguing and infighting instead of organizing. Don't you think Indies know that if DM's CoS goes down, and if they "get their church back", that the powerful force that took down CoS will be all that much more united and capable of turning against them, if they were to continue the same abuses?

I will debate these points till the cows come home. BRING IT ON.

_________________
“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
― Hannah Arendt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:23 pm
Posts: 487
Location: All over the place
Originally posted by Terril Park on Ex scientologykids.com

From my mailbox.

--------------
Scientology Reformation Manifesto June 19, 2011 version

Distribution

To anyone. This Manifesto is a guide for those who wish to help accomplish the goal, notification to those who wish to prevent that goal and hope to those who are indecisive.

Objective / Goal Reformation of Scientology.

Definition

reformation: An improvement in the existing form or condition of institutions or practices, intended to make a striking change for the better in social or political or religious affairs.

Purpose

Anyone, whether Scientologists or non-Scientologists, free to use those aspects or portions of Scientology they wish to use to improve their lives, without hinderance.

Assertions

It is not asserted that L. Ron Hubbard was perfect.
It is not asserted that the technologies of Scientology are all perfect.
It is asserted that there are positive aspects of Dianetics and Scientology which people can use to improve their lives and the lives of others if they choose to do so.
It is asserted that the Church of Scientology no longer practices Scientology as written by L. Ron Hubbard. The Church no longer attempts to fulfil Scientology's benevolent and beneficial intent, nor does the Church attempt to follow the teachings in Scientology texts and lectures written and spoken by LRH. The Church has repeatedly, intentionally altered original Scientology texts to pervert and undermine their intent and effectiveness.

Explanation

This Manifesto addresses reformation of Scientology, not reformation of the Church of Scientology.

The knowledge and potential benefits which can be derived from Scientology are much more important than any organization or personality. While the Church might be reformed as a result of this Manifesto, it is not intended to do so.

Critical to the success of this Manifesto is restoration of self-determination and cause to the Scientology community, both inside the Church and outside it. This will be accomplished by gradiently restoring self-determinism and cause to individuals, whether they are active in the Church of Scientology or have ceased to be active.

Debate whether LRH was a good man or a bad man, and how much of either, are not relevant.

Debating what aspects of Scientology are good and what aspects are bad are not relevant.

Each individual is free to decide upon these matters themselves.

Initiatives

Suggestions adding to or amending these initiatives are welcomed.
Your personal effort to accomplish these initiatives is welcomed.
Some initiatives are already being implemented.

A. Files
The ability of any present or former Church of Scientology member to obtain
- possession of the original of their counselling (auditing) folders and their ethics folders, and
- copies of Scientology "justice" actions folders on them, their personnel folders, intelligence files/entries on them kept by the Church's intelligence arm (GO/OSA) and any other data held on them by any arm of Scientology associated with the Church or RTC.

B. Writings and lectures

Original L. Ron Hubbard Scientology material freely available, and the differences between LRH Scientology and material distributed by the Church of Scientology clearly identified.

C. Freedom of religion

Scientologists and non-Scientologists free to practice or use any or all aspects of the Scientology religion without hinderance by the Church of Scientology or governments.

References:

Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights

C.1 Nullify copyright and trademark laws in respect to original religious works of any religion

C.2 Form groups of people who work together to teach Scientology principles and use Scientology to help others by using counseling (auditing) and other methods.

D. Public perception

Improve public perception of Scientology-related issues through increased, unbiased media articles and editorials.

D.1 Publics and governments understanding that "Scientology" and "Church of Scientology" are not one-in-the-same, that is, they should not be considered identical.

E. Restore self-determinism

Assist anyone at Int Base, in RPFs or otherwise active in the Church not of their own volition.

E.1 Utilize habeas corpus when appropriate.

References

The Aims of Scientology
From Dictatorship to Democracy, by Gene Sharp
http://www.aeinstein.org/organizations/org/FDTD.pdf

Self-Liberation: A Guide to Strategic Planning for Action to End a Dictatorship or Other Oppression,
by Gene Sharp with the assistance of Jamila Raqib
http://www.aeinstein.org/selflib/SelfLiberation.pdf

Scientologese Note

In this endeavor, we are auditing the third dynamic Scientology. (YOU are included as part of the
"we".) The Scientology third dynamic "case" has been going downhill for at least thirty years. Do not expect this Manifesto to be accomplished easily or swiftly, just as one does not expect a one-shot Clear. Do not be disheartened. Those in the Church who are destroying Scientology and its organizations want you to tire, become apathetic and give up. That is part of their strategy.

What you can do

1. Decide which initiative or initiatives you most wish fulfilled.

2. Create your own cell of individuals who wish to accomplish the initiative(s) you have
chosen, or join a cell already pursuing those initiatives.

3. If you created a cell, communicate with and work with other cells pursuing the same initiative(s).
We do not have the resources to investigate who might be pretending to reform Scientology but are actually working against reformation. Therefore, we will not give you names of people to contact. You have to judge others by their actions. We suggest you remain anonymous when you first contact such persons or groups, until you are convinced of their sincerity.

Authorship

This Manifesto is a collaborative effort. In order to reduce the likelihood of real or created accusations by the Church of Scientology and its agents, the collaborators of this Manifesto are not revealing their identities.

Copyright

This document is copyright. It may be reproduced and distributed providing it is copied in full, unaltered, and the person or organization reproducing or distributing it does not assert or imply they are its source.

Feedback

Suggestions to improve this document can be emailed to srm at hush . com

Only emails which help pursue the objective or purpose of this Manifesto will be answered.




The website for our internet Org.
http://www.freewebs.com/techoutsidethecofs/
_________________
http://www.freewebs .com/techoutside thecofs/

I have NO idea of the Source of this, however this was posted on the Ex scientology kids website, by Terril Park. Now, I know I keep bringing this up, but these vultures of the Freezone prey on vulnerable people, just as Scientology does by strictly adhering to the L. Ron Hubbard written works. It matters not to me what they do to themselves, but it does matter to me, that they blatantly prey on already, very vulnerable people whom have already been preyed upon by a cult existence. A lot of these ex kids have lost families, friends, been abused in unimaginable ways by L. Ron Hubbard's quackery, only to have more of it thrown down their throats, by so called sympathetic Freezone Vultures, whom quite frankly cannot live without L. Ron Hubbard's verbal and literal diarrhea oozing from every orifice of their enlightened minds.

And I quote:
Quote:
C. Freedom of religion

Scientologists and non-Scientologists free to practice or use any or all aspects of the Scientology religion without hinderance by the Church of Scientology or governments.



Free to practise or use any and ALL aspects of the scientology "religion" without hinderence by GOVERNMENTS?

First and foremost, Scientology is only a religion for tax purposes and to make it alright to break the law.It's apparently amazing what you can get away with behind the facade of religious status.

Secondly,I do not need to go into the policy letters, bulletins, written works of L. Ron Hubbard for you to know that parts of those "religious" ideologies use fair game, disconnection,lower conditions and heavy ethics, the RPF, they are ALL parts of this religious freedom that these idiots that wrote this Reformation Manifesto are talking about.

It is precisely the lack of Government intervention that these pariahs have managed to keep going as long as they have.

Another quote:
Quote:
D. Public perception

Improve public perception of Scientology-related issues through increased, unbiased media articles and editorials.

D.1 Publics and governments understanding that "Scientology" and "Church of Scientology" are not one-in-the-same, that is, they should not be considered identical.


So, tell me what's the difference?

Quote:
The Scientology third dynamic "case" has been going downhill for at least thirty years.


Well, let me see, I have been speaking out about Scientology since, 2007, it's now 2011, when I first started talking about it, 38 years had gone by, I was in the Sea Org for just a little under 2 years with L. Ron Hubbard.I had already grown up with Scientology for 4 years previously. Mmm,So, when did the Scientology third dynamic "case" start going down hill?

Quote:
Debate whether LRH was a good man or a bad man, and how much of either, are not relevant.

Debating what aspects of Scientology are good and what aspects are bad are not relevant.


So, locking children up, locking adults up, overboardings, disconnection, teaching children to become mind controlled thugs, "baby watching", Introspection rundowns, sec checks, bull baiting, fair game, driving people psychotic, inducing mental breakdowns, sleep deprivation,more sec checks, taking money under false pretenses, coercion to break the law, coercion to have abortions, beatings, pretending to be a religion with the sole purpose of tax evasion and slave labor.NOT RELEVANT!!!!!!!!

No wonder whom ever wrote this wants to stay anonymous.

_________________
Look at our brokenness.
We know that in all Creation
Only the human family
Has strayed from the sacred way.

Teach us love,compassion,honour
That we may heal the earth
And heal each other.(part of an Ojibway prayer)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:40 am
Posts: 2121
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Dorothy :

++++It is the INDIES, many many of them that have spent hours, days, weeks with the FBI reporting the inside felonies.

++++It is the Indies in other countries that have reported to Government agents in those countries.

+++++It is the Indies that have reported to local law enforcement each and every time, taking lots of time
to be specific and enlighten various agencies on what goes on inside the "Church".

++++It is the Indies that are sought out by journalists, authors, media, religious scholars, and others who are in a position to shame the US Government into action.

++++It is the Indies that provide the greatest THREAT and DANGER to Miscavige causing more and more to depart daily as they have a safe harbor to arrive at (other Indies).

The rah rah against the Indies is neither here or there. It is a force that is growing in momentum by the day.

By the way, I am only on this board because of (initially) J. Swift, and then Glibby, Benny's Friend, who have shown me HUGE support, courtesy and friendship.
Thank you

_________________
Radio Podcasts
http://www.survivingscientologyradio.com/
Follow me on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/karendelac
Follow me on Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/KarendlaCariere
Follow me on Google+ - +SurvivingScientology/posts


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am
Posts: 9647
The Manifesto should add
* No personality cult leadership; any abuse, theft, or other lawbreaking by any executive is intolerable. (Of course, CoS ignores its ethics rules).
* Compliance with minimum wage, overtime, and child labor laws. Any "stats" payment to staff should be in addition to minimum wage & overtime. If a group is unable to pay its staff, it is legally required to lay off its staff until it can afford to pay them. No IOU's, no empty promises, no trading auditing or "credits". Pay with a real paycheck (not cash), and follow all social security and other deductions.
* No verbal promises of higher IQ, healing, or treatment of addiction without scientific proof (CoS claims are unproven). No scientific proof? Boo hoo for you; stop lying.
* No attempted practice of medicine, for example telling a student to quit prescribed medicine.
* Indie groups claiming to be a tax exempt charity, should conform to the nation's laws about benefitting the community and not just being an enclosed group that only helps its own members.
* Indie groups not choosing to claim religion status need to comply with all business regulations including fraud and extortion. If they are a religion, they are mostly protected if they scare the student about needing to buy the next course to save his or her eternity. If they are a business and tell the student he or she might go insane unless they take the next course, this intimidation smacks of extortion.
* No pushing "barley milk" on infants.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:09 pm
Posts: 5170
Location: Bondi Beach
Dorothy wrote:

For example, Alert keeps BAWWING about the fact that J. Swift has "changed".


Generalizing much?
Don't let the facts get in the way of your own "BAWWING"



Dorothy wrote:
He's clearly very upset about this and never misses an opportunity to BAW about it liberally.


Yet again, people like you misunderstand my use of emphasis in my posts and confuse it as "angry" or "very upset". I guess it suits you to make blatant misrepresentations, constantly.

Dorothy wrote:
Why? Because J. Swift has jumped off the bandwagon.


What rubbish. Heaven forbid you should even try quantify your misrepresentations with my exact words.

Dorothy wrote:
You asked "who I would identify", well, I'm in the process of identifying. I recently placed Gerry, Caroline, Alert and Gumby together for a reason.



LMAO!!

Lurve yer hypocricy


Dorothy wrote:
They seem to adhere to the above way of thinking, and Gerry and Caroline are its ideological leaders.



I think you should properly define the word "seem" or at least open a thesaurus

Dorothy wrote:
If you support Indies, you automatically support scientology and its abuses. If you support Indies, then you support the Fair Gaming of Gerry. Do you see how ridiculous it can get? Hence the terms "apologist" and "sympathizer" that are so easily bantered about. They will claim that they don't care about or belong to any "faction" one way or the other, yet they are the ones polarizing critics and creating their own ideological faction. I have no problem with someone having a position or way of thinking. But when anyone who fails to adhere to their position continually gets called names such as "delusional", I have a problem with that. If you want to debate a point, then debate it. But I don't see the people doing the name calling coming up with any coherent discussion.



Yep, moar hypocrisy

Dorothy wrote:
<snipped hypocrisy>


Mebe you really should take a leaf outta suzyscientologist's book and at least say you have me on ignore or just pretend I do not exist....rather than you trying to use me as some sort if reference point in your hypocritical argumentation.

_________________
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:03 pm
Posts: 1950
Location: Kansas
Karen#1 wrote:
The rah rah against the Indies is neither here or there.

Yes of course it's neither here nor there, to you. If I was an Independent scientologist I would probably just be carrying on with my business and ignoring the "rah rah". But I'm not that, I'm a critic of the subject of scientology. "Critic" does not equal "critical" as LRon defines it. It means I take a critical look at the whole thing, including those for it and against it. I'm interesred in all its parts, not just one.

Karen#1 wrote:
It is a force that is growing in momentum by the day.
I'm happy about this. Indie action may be the only thing that makes a difference for some of the people I love, in terms of influencing them to leave organized scientology. If they leave CoS, and they decide to continue an independent approach to scientology, their lives will improve greatly, so I appreciate what you guys are doing.

_________________
“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
― Hannah Arendt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:03 pm
Posts: 1950
Location: Kansas
Tamsin-SP wrote:
So, locking children up, locking adults up, overboardings, disconnection, teaching children to become mind controlled thugs, "baby watching", Introspection rundowns, sec checks, bull baiting, fair game, driving people psychotic, inducing mental breakdowns, sleep deprivation,more sec checks, taking money under false pretenses, coercion to break the law, coercion to have abortions, beatings, pretending to be a religion with the sole purpose of tax evasion and slave labor.NOT RELEVANT!!!!!!!!

Not being relevant to the Manifesto does not = not relevant, period. Evidence: the debate IS ongoing within the Indie/Freezone community.

So anyway, I guess it is your contention that Indies intend to carry on all of the above abuses at some point in the future, because LRon is instructing them to, so they most definitely will do all these things, or, they cannot be trusted not to. Once an abuser, always an abuser, there is no hope of reform. Lock them up and throw away the key. Tit for tat. Dispose of quietly and without sorrow. Death penalty for scientology.

If anyone deserves to hold that view, it is you. Just realize what it is you are doing.

_________________
“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
― Hannah Arendt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another Reason Why I Like the Indies: Carisa Marion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:03 pm
Posts: 1950
Location: Kansas
Okay, Alert, so you're not angry or upset, you just "emphasize". Good to know. Sorry there, matey.

It just seemed to me you had a bone to pick about a certain person who couldn't just change their mind or think differently or make friends with the wrong people, they had to have been "handled" by Marty.

_________________
“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
― Hannah Arendt


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group