Discussion of Abuses and Punishments in Radical Scientology

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Karen#1
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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:41 am

Thanks Glibby.

There is a Sea Org pitch given to those asking to route out, I myself received the same pitch ::

1) You will never make it in the mad WOG world !
2) You will be flipping burgers at Mcdonalds for $5 an hour !
2) You will be homeless and living under a freeway bridge !

Image

When I meet folk like Sergio and I hear the Then and NOW , the before and AFTER the Sea Org,

I think to myself ::

Flipping Burgers Indeed !

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by skeptic2girl » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:52 am

I'mglib wrote:Karen, I hope your friend Jeanie reads this and wakes up soon. I'm glad Sergio woke up.

Someone said to me once that everyone leaves the Sea Org eventually. This is of course an exaggeration, but it does seem that a large percentage reach their breaking point eventually, and get out.

Maybe seeing a thread like this will help some people.
No exaggeration. It's just that with some people, they only leave when they die. Then again, maybe it is an exaggeration, because after signing the billion year contract, you're going to have to come back.

***

re: routing out and the *warning* that "You will be flipping burgers at Mcdonalds for $5 an hour !"

Work at McDonald's part-time, for 20 hours a week, and even after taxes, you'll still make more than the $50 (or less) that people make in Sea Org. And something tells me, even the Employee of the Month doesn't have to work as hard. Plus, I've never worked at McDonald's but I'm sure if they had an RPF, we would have heard about it.

Honestly, isn't the constant threat of the RPF enough reason to leave? Tory Christman mentioned once that Scientologists have been schooled by L. Ron Hubbard that manual labor is good for you and supposedly people will get courses -- but surely people who suffer the RPF find that that's not true.

I know it's more complicated than that. I understand that it's mind control and threats and more, but honestly, what could they come up with in the "wog" world that's worse than RPF, or the RPF's RPF?

It makes sense to me, though, that if someone had been in the cult all of their lives, the outside world would be scary. But if you had been a "wog" and then become a Scientologist, you would know how things are.

(I don't mean to imply that people "would" or "should" not be afraid to leave the Sea Org, but it amazes me the lies that the higher ups would try to tell!)
"The truth is out there."

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by I'mglib » Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:45 am

Karen, was Jeanie married to David Sonenfeld?

There was just a leak of some documents from David describing in detail how to reg people, including finding their savings, IRAs, money market accounts, etc.

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/ ... st-1967774
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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:00 am

I'mglib wrote:Karen, was Jeanie married to David Sonenfeld?

There was just a leak of some documents from David describing in detail how to reg people, including finding their savings, IRAs, money market accounts, etc.

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/ ... st-1967774


AFFIRMATIVE.


Jeanie was

Jeanie Hare (married to James Hare, younger brother of the old Fred Hare of the Guardian's Office and more recently OSA helper.)

Jeanie Franks (Married to Bill franks Former ED INT)

Jeanie Bogvad (Married to Jens Bogvad former CO Munich and ED LA D ~~ deceased)

Jeanie Sonenfield (married the last 18 years or so to Dave Sonenfield ~~ former AOLA staff. an Aussie.)

Yes, those leaked docs would be his.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... 1&hl=en_US

UPDATE !!!


Sonenfield is HIGHLY HIGHLY disaffected.
He barely steps in the Org.
He makes a guest appearance when EXECS are in town.
He has been reading the web for some 2-3 years.
He is probably reading this as we speak ! :wink: :wink: :wink:


Where are those Sec Checkers ?
Ooooooops a new mission to slam, attack, beat up and bash is on the way !
He could have leaked those damning docs on how to vulture reg to WWP himself !

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by I'mglib » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:15 am

Hmmmm, interesting.

I found an old thread from 2005 saying the Cincinnati org was doing badly, and that they might be disaffected. I hope it's true.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=13854&start=15
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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:41 am

Today at a Thanksgiving dinner get together I met with a lovely Swiss German girl ~~
Karola Andris

13 years Sea Org on the Sea Org ship Freewinds.
The year was 1996 and Miscavige was there for Scuba Diving Fun.
Then comes the MANDATORY showing of scuba diving video shot by Miscavige that
all Ship's crew MUST attend.

MANDATORY ATTENDANCE means there are Ethics penalties for not attending.
Giving high applause, clapping and saluting Miscavige's photography is an internal matter. It is almost considered a high crime to not participate.

Image

Karola was late, getting off her job and some mishap occurred where the door jammed and she could not make it.

A series of actions cascaded one after another because of her absence of attendee on the Scuba diving video and Karola was removed from post.

There are 2 things that most humiliate a human being. Being kicked out of a space, removed from a job he wants and was doing well at, and the reverse of that, the corollary, being in enforced lock down ~ a kidnap scenerio, a hostage scenario ~~ locked down against will.

I could say that so many years later, I have NEVER been able to get over my enforced lock down against my will at INT BASE.

Korola asked to leave the Sea Org and was confined to the ship for the next 15 months. She had a video camera pointing at her in her cabin 24/7 with no privacy from male security guards and was under surveillance for the next 15 months. One time, within minutes of leaving her cabin Security was in her face, she was being VERY closely monitored.

At one point, she did what I did. She stood up for herself and said that what they were doing was ILLEGAL even under Panamanian Law. (Freewinds is registered in Panama.) This is simply to avoid US jurisdiction. Panama is relatively easy going on maritime Law with ships that fly their Flag.

Tax free for the global commercial transactions.
Tax exemption for below 20 year’s vessels on least revenue.
Non-existence of requirements for minimum tonnage.

Pleasure vessels or private vessels shall make one single payment of US$1,500.00 every two years to be registered in the Panamanian registry. If the craft owner is Panamanian or if made through a Panamanian corporation, the payment shall be of US$1,000.00.

Source: http://www.panamashipregistration.com/i ... icle&id=16


Image

That was not well received by Sea Org execs and soon after 15 months after she had asked to leave, in the year 1998, after her Sec checks looking for her CRIMES, she was permitted to depart.

Then came the INTERNET........and lots of reading with Eyes Wide Open.

She lives in Switzerland and is doing very well. She made it through.
She is NOT flipping burgers for $5 an hour ! :)

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by peter » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:37 am

Karen#1 wrote:'Alert' and skeptic2girl Thank you for your kind words !

Image

David Mayo was and is a close and personal friend.
He got into the Church in Auckland, New Zealand at 17 and served
half his life working the 60 hour weeks for cents by the hour.

I spent many happy times of my life with him on the Flag Ship Apollo

Image

David was as hardworking as they come. A workaholic. Rarely did he secure for the night without working
into the early hours of the morning. He was loyal, he was very competent and he was well loved.

What happened to David Mayo was unspeakable cruelty. Miscavige saw him as a threat and went into a DESTROY mode.
It was barbaric
It was medieval middle ages punishment.
He was removed from post and made to run around a tree"The running Program" 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, and made to run around a tree in all types of extreme desert condition.
Due to physical drain on his body, he lost most of his teeth.,

A huge purge occurred at this time, where all TOP EXECS were removed and everyone was put on Security guard watch like they were felons.

It was a military JUNTA takeover the likes of which you would not image could occur in a CHURCH

David Mayo was not allowed to run around the same tree as the other 19. He was given a tree in isolation from the other prisoners. He was malnourished and underfed for the marathon running he was forced to endure.

ALL this occurred at the infamous "INT BASE" or "GOLD BASE" Southern California's Guantanomo Bay where
Sea org members are imprisoned and tortured and all civil and constitutional rights are severed.

The CULT jokingly makes DVDs on Human Rights and pretends it is a Human Rights Advocate !

Image

Miscavige was bent on destroying Mayo in a fever and vengeance rarely seen. He threatened to destroy Mayo's reputation utterly.

At this time, I received a heavy justice action for saying in my private confessional folder that I LIKED DAVID MAYO and that I would always be his friend..

Image

Nothing infuriated me more than seeing the hate website put up by the Church on him. I saw the lies, I saw the propaganda, and this black propaganda website on Mayo helped me make my final decision to speak out against DM and the CULT ~~ now morphed into a criminal organization which led to my very public Exit.

As is modus operandi with the CULT, a targeted member is "set up" fraudulently for the most salacious crimes.

Interpol was an old ENEMY of the Church. Long blamed in the same vein as Psychiatry.

But to get back at David Mayo, INTERPOL was employed to serve the Church's needs.

On August 4, 1994, Scientology(tm) utilized INTERPOL, the US DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency), and the DNCD (Dominicana Nacional Control de Drogas) to try to enforce Scientology’s(tm) religious beliefs on me, to persecute me and to get me jailed by false allegations to INTERPOL. INTERPOL had received and acted on a report that I was “practicing Scientology(tm) without a license”; that I had “destroyed Scientology(tm) property”; that I was “representing” myself as a “Scientologist”. Ventura Bayonet, head of the Dominican Republic DNCD said that he decided to act as a result of a phone call from INTERPOL alleging that I had damaged “millions of dollars of Scientology(tm) property


DAVID MAYO AFFIDAVIT

CD - 23

14 October 1994

Copyright (C) 1994 David Mayo

Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes.

I, David Mayo, declare as follows

14. ( David Miscavige ) threatened that if I ever escaped, he would personally see to it that the resources of the Church of Scientology would destroy my character and reputation internationally. During that six-month period of captivity, I was forced to run around a tree in the desert in temperatures of up to 110 degrees for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 3 months I was under tremendous coercion and duress I was refused medical and dental treatment (after escaping captivity I lost six teeth and required thousands of dollars of dental work to save the rest of my teeth) I was not permitted to make or receive phone calls and all letters I wrote were read by Scientology security guards I was often awakened during the night and interrogated (mainly by Jesse Prince) In early February 1983, I was told by Rick Aznaran, Director of Security, RTC, (husband of Vicki Aznaran, President of RTC), to get the idea of leaving out of my head because I would never leave the property alive.

Click here to read more~~
http://www.freezone.org/reports/e_mayo02.htm
Soderqvist1: Who is the author of this doctored quote from David Mayo’s copyrighted 1994 affidavit item 14 where David Miscavige acting on order of L. Ron Hubbard is removed, because I cannot find that quote or affidavit in you link? Emphasis in bold type by me!

Copyright (C) 1994 David Mayo
14. On August 29, 1982, David Miscavage, and others, acting on the orders of L. Ron Hubbard, kidnapped me and subsequently kept me captive and physically and mentally abused me for six months. During this period, David Miscavage, an officer and director of RTC, told me in the presence of Vicki Aznaran, President of RTC, Mark Yaeger, Commanding Officer, CMO INT of CSI that if I ever escaped, he would personally see to it that the resources of the Church of Scientology would destroy my character and reputation internationally. During that six-month period of captivity, I was forced to run around a tree in the desert in temperatures of up to 110 degrees for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 3 months I was under tremendous coercion and duress. I was refused medical and dental treatment (after escaping captivity I lost six teeth and required thousands of dollars of dental work to save the rest of my teeth). I was not permitted to make or receive phone calls and all letters I wrote were read by Scientology security guards. I was often awakened during the night and interrogated (mainly by Jesse Prince). In early February 1983, I was told by Rick Aznaran, Director of Security, RTC, (husband of Vicki Aznaran, President of RTC), to get the idea of leaving out of my head because I would never leave the property alive.
http://holysmoke.org/dm/dmayo005.htm
A simple explanation with few explanation grounds is to prefer, except when you need to hide your flaws! - Peter Soderqvist

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by peter » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:40 am

Karen#1 wrote:Mr Bad said
From this, I am completely dumfounded by the Indie movement.

Is there any such thing as a deal-breaker?

Mr Bad

I am posting for one reason only. To report the crimes and illegal acts that have occurred in relatively recent times. Law Enforcement and Government agencies could care less about what Hubbard said or didn't say. He has been dead and gone 28 years. David Miscavige is alive and well with several people in lockdown with no free passage through the gates at INT Base to leave.

DO NOT Confuse the "CHURCH" or CULT of Scientology (Miscavige, his hired thugs and criminal lawyers and his his enablers that run the show with the actual writings and technology.)

Frankly what Indies believe or disbelieve is none of your damned business.
Do not judge people in whose shoes you have not walked in.

I whistle blow because I believe the corruption, the crimes, the ongoing acts of sadism and ABUSE and other atrocities must be exposed because PRESENT TIME perpetrators should be held accountable and should walk down the PERP walk in handcuffs. I am here to talk about relatively recent criminal acts. JUSTICE needs to be served.

Who wrote what in the 1950s does not mean a hill of beans to Federal Prosecutors and other agencies.
I am reporting on recent crimes and focusing on Miscavige because he is alive and well, living like a Rock Star, funneling $2 million a year to Monique Yingling his private and personal attorney (who was a former Department of Justice and IRS insider) ~~Monique Yingling who enables and covers up his dirty deeds along with former mafia Lawyer Elliott Abelson and a host of other lawyers who are paid big big bucks $$$$$$$ to protect Miscavige.

Got it ?
Mr Bad
I am posting for one reason only. To report the crimes and illegal acts that have occurred in relatively recent times.
Soderqvist1: fine, go on with this!
Law Enforcement and Government agencies could care less about what Hubbard said or didn't say. He has been dead and gone 28 years. David Miscavige is alive and well with several people in lockdown with no free passage through the gates at INT Base to leave.
Soderqvist1: it may be truth that it is not possible to prosecute a corpse!
But in the huge LRH orders data base of the INCOMM containing supporting evidence why David Miscavige act as he do. Maybe this complementary evidence is what the government is missing in order build up a convincing case against David Miscavige?
Hubbard (and Miscavige) Squirrel the Tech by Jesse Prince
5 But I want to make sure it is clear that this whole idea came from LRH, not from Miscavige. Miscavige is continuing to carry out LRH's orders as well as he knows how. But make no mistake about it: Miscavige is doing his best to forward Command Intention, which is contained in the huge LRH orders data base of the INCOMM computer system of Scientology. The LRH orders database is a hidden data line that no one knows about outside of Int management. And it is these orders that Miscavige and his people are operating on.
http://www.lermanet.com/prince/changingtech.htm
DO NOT Confuse the "CHURCH" or CULT of Scientology (Miscavige, his hired thugs and criminal lawyers and his his enablers that run the show with the actual writings and technology.)
Soderqvist1: Tell that to Paulette Cooper, and the rest of Hubbard’s victims!
Frankly what Indies believe or disbelieve is none of your damned business.
Soderqvist1: truth!
But this is the forum with the name; ‘Opinions and Debate’ not ‘Opinions and Muzzled’!
Do not judge people in whose shoes you have not walked in.
Soderqvist1: why do you judge David Miscavige if you have not walked in his shoes?
I whistle blow because I believe the corruption, the crimes, the ongoing acts of sadism and ABUSE and other atrocities must be exposed because PRESENT TIME perpetrators should be held accountable and should walk down the PERP walk in handcuffs. I am here to talk about relatively recent criminal acts. JUSTICE needs to be served.
Soderqvist1: next time you are talking to government agencies tell them about policies in the said LRH orders data base of the INCOMM who instigate them to these crimes!
Who wrote what in the 1950s does not mean a hill of beans to Federal Prosecutors and other agencies.
Soderqvist1: not truth, Hubbard’s writings is part of the evidence in various courts over the world in example the child custody case in High Court of London 1984!
http://www.xenu.net/archive/audit/
I am reporting on recent crimes and focusing on Miscavige because he is alive and well, living like a Rock Star, funneling $2 million a year to Monique Yingling his private and personal attorney (who was a former Department of Justice and IRS insider) ~~Monique Yingling who enables and covers up his dirty deeds along with former mafia Lawyer Elliott Abelson and a host of other lawyers who are paid big big bucks $$$$$$$ to protect Miscavige.
Soderqvist1: that’s good!
Got it ?
Soderqvist1: no, do you got it?
A simple explanation with few explanation grounds is to prefer, except when you need to hide your flaws! - Peter Soderqvist

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:38 pm

The coercion of enforcing documents to be signed on VIDEO CAMERA


Image

There is not a single person that can leave the Sea Org wthout signing 1/2" to 1"
thick of documents. Each clause, if violated is a penalty of $50,000 to the
Church !

Karola was saying how she would have signed away her life to get off that ship !
I know of no RELIGION that holds you against your will for 15 months, 19 months,
over a year at any rate when you just want to LEAVE !

++++++

I recall being summoned by OSA INT 3 months after I had finally LEFT.
I was still an emotional wreck ~~ I have come a long ways ~~ but was in
poor condition at the time.

I was shuttled into a room with a video camera. Carol Martiniano (no longer at OSA INT
~~ in a lower Org) was my handler.

The video camera was of significance due to what would happen next.

Obediently and meekly I would show up for these SUMMONS.

Carol demanded that I never ASK for CHILD Support from Heber Jentzsch for Alexander and had me sign on camera. There was a sheaf of documents and it all had to be done with the video camera running !
I had just served 20 years and the Church wanted to be SURE I had no right to ask for any $$$.

Image

I was stunned. It had never occurred to me to demand Heber pay out of his $25 a week child support for
Alexander. I hurriedly signed every document so I can get out there.


The Church wanted to be SURE I wouldn't ask for Money !!!!!

Extorting money is a CHURCH of SCIENTOLOGY special !

Not every one else is looking to extort funds $$$$$$$

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:31 am

Tory Christman Tory/Magoo

So much has been said about Tory and her good works, Andreas created a whole page on her:

http://www.xenu.net/archive/personal_story/tory/

so I will not repeat what has been covered in such depth on the web.
I would like to state that the "Church" had no business interfering with her medical prescriptions
and playing Doctor.

Tory, like me, only intended to vent a bit on the web and continue her life, but because of the vicious
malicious retaliation they actually inspired her to become a full time activist.

Image

It is vengefulness and vindictiveness FULL Bore on an ex-Church member that isolates the "Church" of Scientology from any "CHURCH" in existence.

Marty Rathbun posted and Internal Dirty Program designed to harm Tory and it was an eye opener.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/1 ... -dark-ops/

+++++Imagine a Church giving out a private home phone number to a Porn site so that the ex-Parishioner received vulgar phone calls all night.
+++++Imagine a CHURCH going to every single neighbor circling a person's home to hand out diabolical accusations in an attempt at Character assassination.

Tory, like Larry Brennan Tory, Mark Bunker, J.Swift, Benny's friend, Glibby, Graham Berry and others
have BROAD BANDWIDTH, that wonderful ability to tolerate other viewpoints and even care about people with whom one disagrees.


I come from a background of complete control.
Control on what I thought
Control on what I said.
Control who I could or could not befriend.


No more.
No more getting embroiled in anything I do not choose.
No one will preach to me or attempt to drawn me into any dialogue or game or debate I do not want to participate in !

I am sovereign to my own domain !

I am done with the black and white "You are either with us or against us!" CULT TYPE THINK !
I am partial to the idea that in this world it is NOT all black and white.
There are no absolutes.
There are many shades of grey

For those that seem to have such disagreements with what I say or don't say, I have one message !
Move on and stop reading my posts !


I am doing a lot more than posting on the boards to expose the criminal and dark side of the "Church."


Tory, I so look forward to my next invitation to the fabulous Suppressive Person Parties you host ! I just did not know how fabulous it was to spend quality time with SPs !
Long may you thrive on your actions ~~ you go Girl !
Last edited by Karen#1 on Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:58 am

I mentioned the Tabloid vengeful Hate pages posted on Tory by the "Church".

I strongly believe these malicious FAIR GAME type actions are precisely why a 2008 Gallup Poll found that Scientology was the most disliked and hated religion
in the United States.

Rated below Atheism !
Even with Radical Muslim activities and suicide bombers MUSLIMS were more popular than the CULT !~


Image

SOURCE : http://www.gallup.com/poll/106516/Ameri ... olics.aspx

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:33 am

It is interesting to view how Scientology is perceived in POPULAR CULTURE

This site posts 10 most....this and that.

One of its entries is

10 most SINISTER Organizations ~~

Image
Image source - dailycontributor
Regarded as the fastest growing religion in the world with 15 million members and counting, Scientology has attracted a lot of controversy over whether it really can be declared a religion or a money-making scheme. New members are required to pay “donation” fees in order to undergo tests, seminars and initiations. Should members wish to progress further up the echelons of the religion then they can expect to pay thousands of dollars. Founded on the basis of science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard’s bizarre musings the religion has attracted the attention of celebrity status with the likes of Tom Cruise, John Travolta and Kirsty Alley becoming members. It is thought this was done on purpose though to attract publicity and gain credibility. The church was embroiled in huge controversy in 1979 when it was discovered that operatives of the religion had been involved in events they called Operation Snow White. Infiltrating the U.S. government the church operatives were involved in spying and theft of government documentation on L. Ron Hubbard. The operation was considered to be the single largest infiltration of the US government undertaken in history.
Scientology is positioned below Al Quedda but more sinister than terrorist group Hezbollah, and more sinister than Mossad, North Korea and Blackwater (that favors mercernaries for hire !)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SOURCE http://urbantitan.com/10-most-sinister-organisations/

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by skeptic2girl » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:13 am

Karen, first of all, I love that wedding picture. :)

Do you know if there's anything that people (strangers who care about cult abuses) can do to help free those being held captive at INT base and who knows where else?

I did do research once and saw that random people couldn't just file missing person reports on people.

Do you have any recommendations?
"The truth is out there."

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by Karen#1 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:30 am

skeptic2girl wrote:Karen, first of all, I love that wedding picture. :)

Do you know if there's anything that people (strangers who care about cult abuses) can do to help free those being held captive at INT base and who knows where else?

I did do research once and saw that random people couldn't just file missing person reports on people.

Do you have any recommendations?
Dear Skeptic Girl,

Why we Protest, posted these instructions

HOW TO REPORT CRIMES COMMITTED ON BEHALF OF THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY TO FEDERAL LAW OFFICIALS

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/ ... als.90286/

The sames rules would apply to reporting to local Law enforcement.
The more reports the better.

There is no Religion in the world that has more complaints to Law Enforcement than the C of $

Image

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Re: Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

Post by skeptic2girl » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:01 am

^thanks, Karen.

Yeah, I remember looking at that post in the past. It was disappointing to me that the crimes had to be reported by the person who was the victim -- I'm sure there's a good reason for this, but still.

Also, if I witness, say, a bank robbery, I can call the police for that -- but I guess that's more of a tip?

I might be over-idealizing, but I feel like law enforcement MUST know about INT Base (like, if someone mentioned it, they wouldn't have not have heard of it before, unless they were new or whatever) but simply can't go in there and raid the place.

In a way, that's *good* since the government can't legally just storm in wherever they want, but of course in this case, I feel willing to make an exception.

Then again, they stormed David Koresh's compound because (?) there was a weapon stockpile. That certainly seems likely at Gold Base, doesn't it? Or does it have to do with whether or not the guns are illegal or not?

I don't mean to derail -- but it's important to me to understand law enforcement's views on this -- because if I felt like they didn't give a darn or were completely powerless, well, it would affect my spirit.

Karen, I assume you reported to the FBI or police about Heber -- what happened with that? What did they say?

(You had mentioned the missing person's report being filed, but you didn't say that you filed it.)
"The truth is out there."

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