That's what COB demands to be called. So, in other words, you deserve to have your balls cut off and you hung by your toes, too? <g>

Marty has written on his blog that he has no plans or intentions for getting back into any organized version of scientology. I'm sorry I don't have a quote for you and I don't expect you to trust him either- I understand why people don't. But I do believe him at least when it comes to this particular point. Once a person leaves that kind of "lifestyle" (if you can call it that) behind, they don't go back to it. Scientology is so much more rewarding and fun when you are an independent. There is little fun in a billion year contract, wearing a uniform, and not having any family or life outside of work.

And even if he did want to return to organized scientology, I disagree that it would be easy for him to waltz in and "take over". Things don't work like that in scientology. I have a lot of experience with this organization. I was submersed in it for many, many years. It operates more like a bureaucracy. The admin lines are extremely slow. Anyway, I don't want to go into a long explanation about why that is so unlikely. Trust me, it is.

David Miscavige needs to GO for the reasons I stated, period. The people inside of scientology, the staff and public, need to take back their organization. They need to show some autonomy, initiative, self-determinism, some balls. So many of them know deep down inside that something is very, very wrong. They need to act upon that instinct NOW and do what they know is right, what they know must be done.

Now is the time. Before the FBI does it for them.

Do the Branch Davidians exist any more? Neither will scientology if the FBI is forced to intervene because of rampant abuse. As long as scientologists continue to turn a blind eye to what's really going on, they risk losing it all. Yes, some people want to see the complete end of scientology, but they are not who this message is meant for.

Scientologists who do not take action now, are helping to bring about the end of scientology. They think their organization is invincible, but it isn't. They need to stop listening to the PR Miscavige is giving them and start looking at the facts.

Scientology critics have to keep a zero-tolerance policy on violence. Not only is it the right thing to do, it's so easy for the Scilons to twist words and take something that isn't meant whatsoever, and get you thrown in prison for a long, long time.

Keith Henson angered them by protesting Gold in the old days; and they exacted their revenge when he made a joke about something with the same initials as Turner Classic Movies. He never intended violins, and threttin'd nobody. It didn't matter. (I won't even use those words here, because you never know.)

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All that said, I wholeheartedly agree Miscavige Must Go. But do it peacefully, take a vote, stage a protest, but do not allow this man to continue his reign of abuse.

Re: Subject Matter:
So you really think that Scientology is intrinsically good, and it's only Miscavige who is ruining things?
Would his departure really make it a simply adorable organization?
Would his departure make all those who have already left want to go back again?

I think not.

The organization is rotten to the core. The entire subject was written by a megalomaniac. Anything that is good in the subject was usually stolen from other sources anyway, such as Buddhism, and is only included to aid in the manipulations.

Any philanthropic acts the COS engage in are simply thinly-disguised machinations to recruit more gullible members with deep pockets that they can pillage.

All religions are designed to control people, not free them. Scientology is the prime example, though by no means the sole offender.

C'mon, honestly - how many people here would become a Scientologist again if Miscavige left?

I think he's doing a good job. More people despise Scientology than ever before. Let's keep him I say.

I don't believe it will ever get better or be good, I just want him put in jail. And when the new boss becomes same as the old boss, put him in jail, too.

I don't disagree with you, TRNU. But I hold my position re: David Miscavige must step down in order for scientology to have a chance at surviving into the next generation.

TRNU, I am not an independent nor am I a FZer. A look at my history here at clambake will show you that. I have left scientology 100%. I have my own personal reasons for wanting to see David Miscavige gone from church rule.

Being a scientology and staff "alumni", I can step into the shoes of a scientologist and see what they see and think how they think. Not everyone will want to leave scientology no matter what happens. I can support their desire to continue to believe whatever it is they wish to believe. But I cannot support their desire to ignore the facts about their current leadership. They need to face the music.

I rarely bump my old threads, but I feel it is time to bump this one.

Yes, Dorothy it is time. I personally have felt it more and more these past few days. I don't see how Miscavige can last much longer. CoS' top management (if there really is such a thing anymore) should band together and start ousting him now before an outside authority does it for them. Then they will be spared the embarrassment of explaining why THEY did NOTHING. The guy is outta control and it seems that he is unable to self-correct. It is clinical and criminal. And it must be stopped.

I called my mom "Sir" once.. I had eat a bar of soap. Never called her "Sir" again.

Nahh.. DM will be around for a long time unless he goes berserk and runs off to places unknown, then the cult will do what it's always done. Claim that all the stories of DM going nuts & running off are wog lies.

Last year, after several years of Mike Rinder blowing & going public, I was informed by Scilons that reports of his quitting the church were all lies and two publics reported seeing Rinder at PAC the day before.

What many forget is the power of group control & propaganda in a regime. Look what happened in Nazi Germany. Hitler was determined to fight, and allow lives to be lost "for the Fatherland", until the Russian forces invaded Berlin & came knocking at his front door, then he quickly committed suicide. His determination to stay into power was so profound that he ordered children as young as 6 to take up arms & defend Germany.

Scientologists today are no different. They are spellbound and are open to only listening to, and adhering to the propaganda that is being fed to them. Miscavige is probably feeling alot of hurt right now, but he's got a whole lot of faithful drones, spellbound by propaganda, ready & willing to defend the COB.

Remember the July 20 plot to kill Hitler? It failed. Many people were executed over the plot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_July_plot. If it weren't for the Western forces winning the war, Hitler would have remained in power.

No, don't think so, Smurf. This has a different feel. And the past couple years haven't been good ones for
dictators. Assad also probably thinks he is invulnerable as did Ghaddafi. I believe things are only going to get worse for Scientology's "Dear Leader."

Remind me of this is 10 years when DM still hold's the reigns.

Does anyone know if the Co$ has a constitution and bylaws, or a similar type of document, that would detail how succession or recall in leadership is to be carried out? I believe most churches have these types of documents. From what I understand, Hubbard ran everything his way, then it was a power grab by Miscavige when Hubbard died.

If everything is not spelled out in legal documents how to force Miscavige out, and strong leadership all lawyered-up to do it, I don't believe Miscavige will ever give up the reins. He is dictator-for-life, just like Fidel Castro. He could have 99.9% of the active membership calling for his resignation, and he'd just call for a sec check for everyone, then enjoy a glass of scotch.

LRH spelled out how the cult was to be run, after he died. David Miscavige came in with his team of lawyers and changed all that. Hubbard's last wishes were not granted.

I suspect DM masked the change in occupation with forged documents. Given my past experience working with OSA attorneys, I believe DM paid attorneys handsomely to help him ascend to the throne of power. One of those attorneys, Joe Yanny, later quit working for the cult, and he became a target of vicious harassment & a lawsuit from the cult. http://www.lermanet.com/cos/yanny.html

I agree with you, Judith. It does have a different feel.