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 Post subject: Hello again!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:23 am
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Location: Decatur, GA
This is my first post in nearly two years. I just landed a new job after two years of unemployment, and frankly, I just didn’t have the energy to be on this site for a while, since virtually all of my energy and time went towards job hunting. Things finally turned around, and wanted to check in again.
That being said, there are two reasons for this post.
1) When I checked in a few weeks ago to browse recent posts, I was glad to see the ones from Debbie Cook. Even though she still clings to respecting Hubbard and his wretched tech, at least she was able to see what a monster David Miscavige is, left and then began speaking out. Overall, I saw this as good news, even though she might never, as a lot of other exes, ever be able to accept and come to terms with Hubbard’s monstrous crimes. However, I’m still struggling to accept the fact that are few people in history who are guilty of such staggering crimes against humanity as Hubbard and Miscavige have gotten away, pretty much free and clear. Hubbard, obviously, has been dead for more than 25 years. But I simply cannot get my mind to accept that Miscavige has never been charged, let alone convicted for his hideous crimes. I have long hoped that Miscavige would be arrested, do the “perp walk”, be placed on trial, sent to jail for life without possibility of parole, and all the money he has stolen be returned to the true victims of Scientology and see this evil cult permanently dismantled.

But I am also a realist and know that this might never come to pass regardless of how well deserved the above actions would be. However, I still hold onto hope that he will at least be charged with at least half of his crimes.

2) The second item is something I need help from any of the posters on this MB who can provide me with the following assistance.

Shortly before I stopped posting on a regular basis two years ago, there was a thread regarding people who found attorneys who were able to get back ALL of the money they ever spent on Scientology services rooted in the fact that EVERY book, tape, auditing and academy classes were all based on lies and fraud. I have kept virtually every receipt on any book/tape/service I ever took with them. Overall, I spent approximately $15,000 on Scientology. I realize this is a mere pittance compared to those who had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on this cult. But frankly, I fell deep into debt during the time I was unemployed and getting this money returned would be a heaven-send.

So the question is, can anyone provide me with the names of attorneys and/or law firms who have successfully been able to return all monies spent on anything to do with Scientology by former members based on coercion and fraud? This would be greatly appreciated and if this is info that would best be kept private for the time being, then by all means, please send me a private message. Either way I very much wish to pursue this so long as whomever I am referred to has had successful actions on getting all monies spent returned.

Thanks ahead of time to anyone involved for any assistance provided. I’ll check in next month and talk about how my job is going (in case anyone is interested), and hopefully go back to posting on a semi-regular basis.

Larry/4truth2

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"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
George Orwell


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 Post subject: Re: Hello again!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Welcome back, 4Truth2. Glad to hear you found a job, yay!

I agree with you that DM should be on trial and should go to jail. He uses the religious cloaking to get away with murder, I believe.

As far as getting money back, I have never heard of someone successfully getting money back for books. I guess it's possible, but I haven't read about it.

I have heard of people getting some money back though. Some have more success than others. I will dig up some threads on it.

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"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/


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 Post subject: Re: Hello again!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Here you go:

http://kiwianon.com/forums/index.php?topic=398.0

The only problem is the church has recently dug in and refused to return money lately. See this post:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.p ... post631458

Here's a Youtube video. Not sure if it works, but she says she got $300,000. She says that the old tactics of threatening and using a lawyer doesn't work anymore. You have to go throught their process, and be patient and polite. I have no idea, but i sounds plausible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfqpxG-y ... eUy8WcisA=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3jpbddr ... PgJioDFXU=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvAd7ZrY ... f71G4zUFA=

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/1 ... t-for-you/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_NTc0gj ... f71G4zUFA=

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"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/


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 Post subject: Re: Hello again!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:45 pm 
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Hi, I'm glib! Thanks for the response and the well wishes. It looks like I might just have to be patient and wait to see who else replys to this thread. I did indeed hear about people getting refunds even on books and tapes completely based on the fraud defense. I mean really, did Hubbard EVER tell the truth about ANYTHING? Of course not! Which is why the fraud tactic was working for some people, at least when I first heard about it. Secondly, NO ONE who has researched what the cult is really about in the last 12-15 years, via internet postings here and elswhere about their lies, theft, abuse, disonnection, slave labor, etc, etc would ever set foot in an org. Which is why I thought the fraud thing was brilliant since Scientology never delivers what is promised in their promos and strong-arm redge tactics. There are no clears, are no OT's, and Hubbard wrote and lectured when he was high on speed among other things, and was one of the cruelest and most vicious men who ever lived. But then you already knew all of this.

I'll check back a couple of times a day in the next week or two and see what other responses I get.

Thanks again!

Larry/4truth2

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"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
George Orwell


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 Post subject: Re: Hello again!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:48 pm 
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I watched the first YT video only, and at the 28 second mark she says she received back the money she had on account, which was $399,000. Money on account is different that money spent on courses or auditing.

Recently, Bert Schippers and Lynne Hoverson filed a lawsuit in Pinellas Co. Florida trying to get their money back that was on account. That sum was $27,000. The judge said the court couldn't intevene, and they had to go to internal Scientology arbitration.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/jud ... bt/1219054

I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear. I hope someone can help you get your money back.


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 Post subject: Re: Hello again!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:57 pm 
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You won't get back the money spent on books. Books can say anything due to freedom of the press; the only dangers the author need fear are libel lawsuits, copyright infringements, and possibly betrayal of government top-secrets. Many, many books lie, exaggerate, and oversimplify. I've never heard of anyone getting their money back for a falsehood in a book.


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 Post subject: Re: Hello again!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:19 am 
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Yeah, it sounds like the church is totally thumbing its nose at the IRS agreement, where they promised to return unused money to people. Maybe they feel that they have gotten away with murder so far, and no one seems to care, so they'll just forget about the agreement.

The videos I posted aren't complete, because they don't explain the whole process, unfortunately. But it sounds like what has happened is the church has decided it can get away with saying that you can get your money as long as you go through THEIR process. If you threaten or call a lawyer, that's not part of the process so they blow you off. I think they feel the courts won't intervene, because courts don't want to get involved with church procedures or doctrine.

This woman says she got her money back, but the videos are incomplete. On Youtube it says she gave a seminar at a Freezone meeting, which doesn't help.

_________________
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/


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 Post subject: Re: Hello again!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:59 am 
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Hi, 4truth2!

I can't give you the advice you asked for, but just want to pipe in that you - as much as is safe and comfortable for you - publicize your quest as much as possible.

Certainly, the cult has a poor history of returning money. But at the very least, you can turn their ripping you off and your willingness to stand up to them yet another footbullet for them.

And that way, you win no matter what. :)

Good luck!

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"The truth is out there."


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 Post subject: Re: Hello again!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 11:19 pm
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Welcome back! congrats on the new job


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 Post subject: Re: Hello again!
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Thanks for anyone who chose to post on this thread. Skeptic2girl, I was already thinking along those lines. I'll post any progress.

In the meantime, when I made my initial post on this thread, it was based on some info (I just can't recall who posted the info) about getting back money spent on tapes and lectures. Although it is true that there are millions of hucksters in the world, and it is not uncommon for people (especially with "get rich quick" books) to make exaggerated, if not downright false claims in their books.

However, Scientology is rather unique in that Hubbard lied about EVERYTHING! Every book, every taped lecture was a deliberate falsehood. This is why I am going to keep digging around and hope I get a response based on the fraud defense. If Hubbard had ever been even partially truthful, and just exaggerated or occasionally lied, it would be a different story. He was too selfish, had far too big an ego, and was too consumed with his hatred for humanity to ever tell the truth about anything.

Whomever and whenever I get a positive response, especially if I actually get a refund for the 15 grand I laid out on this devious cult.

BTW, in case anyone is interested, I shipped virtually all of my books, tapes and periodicals (the Auditor, Advance, etc) to Andreas in 2004. He paid for the shipping to ?Europe and I was more than happy to be rid of Scientology's crap!

Larry/4truth2

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"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
George Orwell


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 Post subject: Re: Hello again!
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:33 pm 
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Hi 4truth2, that lawsuit I referenced above Schippers vs. Co$ has been appealed to the district court within the last month.

It should be interesting to see how much of his money he gets back. He was out $27K on account, and a lot more than that paying his children's freeloader debt from the SO.


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