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 Post subject: The Crucial Lies of Scientology
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:06 pm 
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What are the lies that are most crucial to make Scientology seemingly make sense?

In my opinion, one huge lie is the idea that we each get a "Forgetter Implant" in the "Between Lives Area" between each of our so-called lives.

Without this lie, we should easily be able to recall past lives and retain past knowledge. That neither of these is the case pretty much proves that "past lives" is not a valid concept.

Therefore it is necessary to mask that little fact with an unprovable explanation.

So how can you recall the Forgetter Implant if it makes you forget so effectively, meathead? :huh:

Another great lie is the idea that theta and MEST are separate. (Thanks to however came up with that on another thread.) Humans are composite beings, not a "thetan" imprisoned in a body. The concept of separate planes of existence is not original, but making the physical universe such a booby trapped labyrinth was brilliant! That thetans cannot now create new isnesses sort of blows that one out of the water. Oops! We must be terribly degraded to have lost all our abilities.

Another is that the living component of humans is a static. The exact opposite is the truth. Life is ever-changing and moving, or it doesn't survive. The only thing static in this universe is "standard tech." ;)

Any more?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:37 pm 
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A crucial lie is printed at the start of every Scientology book and magazine:

"The only reason a person becomes confused or leaves an area of study is because he or she has past a word that was not understood."

In other words: is anything in Scientology doesn't make sense or if you want to give it up, it can only be because YOU have MUs!

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Mike de Wolf
"A science that depends on Authority alone is a breath in the wind of truth and is therefore no science at all." - L. Ron Hubbard


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:57 pm 
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"$cientology can help you with that." :crazy:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:15 am 
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Good one, Mike!

How about Keeping Scientology Working?

It didn't work in the first place!

Another one: "A being is only as valuable as he can be of service to others."

Wot happended to my other dynamics, ethics officer?

Valuable to whom? (I think you know the answer to that one, boys and girls.) ;)

For me, I guess the first and most crucial lie would have been the concept of the Reactive Mind from DMSMH. Nasty thing, the Reactive Mind.

Fortunately it doesn't exist!
;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:36 pm 
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scientology lies,

1. if you are ill you have done something wrong
2. if you say LRH is a piece of shit you need to go to a forced labor camp
3. if you think scientology is a piece of shit you are insane
4. if you are not a scientologist/clear you have no rights
5. christ was a pedophile
6. mohammed (islam) was a small town booster
7. china is a place with too many chinks (lrh diary entry)
7. your body is a mass of dead space aliens
8. if you disagree with scientology you have MU's
9. al money/property belongs to scientology

shall i go on ? ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:53 pm 
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P-Jay:

Actually Scientology doesn't say any of these things.

Posting exagerations like this just damages our credibility when real Scientologists surf to this site.

Let's keep the discussion gounded in real references and first-hand experiences please.

Mike

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Mike de Wolf
"A science that depends on Authority alone is a breath in the wind of truth and is therefore no science at all." - L. Ron Hubbard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:27 pm 
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Thanks, Mike.

And please lets keep it to the most crucial lies upon which Scientology is founded.

You are not a body is a very crucial lie and totally false. The concept of a "thetan" is not possible to demonstrate in the real world.

Here's a terrible OT lie: For any of us to get free we ALL have to get free.

Any concept of an absolute state or human condition, such as Clear or OT. Such concepts are not based in human reality. No such states exist, nor could such states continue if they did exist. Life is change.

The erroneous concept that there is just one cause for every human phenomenon, such as nattering caused by overts, illness caused by PTSness, etc. Life is far more complex than that. Every human reaction is unique and has its own unique genesis.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:11 am 
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Mike de Wolf - during my time in Scientology, I heard the group making such statements as listed by Xenu's nephew over and over again. In fact, he has compiled an excellent, brief description of statements that indicate the actual demented viewpoints of Scientology, as related by many, many former Scientologists over the years. For a glaring example, 'everybody's property belongs to them' - they told us right from the time we all first got in that they are destined to take over the world, so obviously they believe that everyone's property belongs to them. That's what the whole Scientology threat is about, and why they think they have a right to rip off people by means of their complex spiritualist racket. I mean, you were in Scientology and you don't know about that? In any case, if you don't believe that these statements represent the actual viewpoints of Scientology then what are you doing on an anti-Scientology site? What 'real references' are you talking about anyway? And this business of trying to make it seem as if his attack on Scientology is improper is absurd - his comments are completely proper - it is your comments which are inappropriate. What 'real references' are you talking about anyway?" Perhaps you should just come on this website and attack Scientology and reveal some damaging secrets about it. But then, if you really think that the statements relayed by Xenu's nephew are not 'real references' then I guess you don't really think that Scientology is a bad thing as described by hundreds of former Scientologists.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:20 am 
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George,

The comments were off topic because they didn't address the question.

The question was "What are the lies that are most crucial to make Scientology seemingly make sense? "

None of those items fit the bill except perhaps #8.

Let me restate the purpose of this thread so that it makes a little more sense.

What are the crucial concepts that are most fundamental to Scientology thinking, but are lies?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:25 am 
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The concept of ultimate empowerment -- that by using scientology training and processes an individual person can gradually, eventually become like GOD and be "at cause" over matter, energy, space, time, life, as delineated on the grade chart.

That you can have all of life the way YOU want it, with all YOUR dreams and desires granted as YOU wish.

This is the big lie. It's very seductive.

To believe it, you must ignore all the other 6 billion (human) beings on this planet who also have dreams and desires, many of which will no doubt conflict with yours.

(Or maybe you could get into theta-wars with them and battle to see who is the Biggest Being?)

It SEEMS to make sense because it is so nicely laid out on the grade chart, so scientific! so orderly! and the "wins" at the introductory level are sometimes quite real, and are verified by FNs and celebrated with success stories and applause.

You feel better. You feel bigger, more powerful. These serve to make the whole trip seem plausible.

Then, when your expectations are heightened, and you've gone at it long enough to meet with disappointment, there is always an explanation (usually your fault):

It's on the next level or a higher level (it's on the OT levels!); you're PTS; you're out-ethics; you're just not being "OT" enough to get on your OT levels; you have mu's; you're an ARC breaky pc, you're a black-five case; or the psychs did it.

These are the crucial lies that explain why the Big Lie isn't forthcoming. And they seem to make sense because they are written up in official-looking policies and technical bulletins that you are sent to ethics or to cramming to read and be word-cleared on and it all seems just so scientific! so orderly!

There are lies within lies within lies, and more lies to back up the lies that came before.

It begins with one Big Lie: that you are GOD, and you just forgot you were GOD.

(Logic would tell you that if you really were GOD, you wouldn't forget that.)

It seems to make sense because it is presented as a researched, scientific, orderly set of truths and techniques.

Human beings generally have a low tolerance for disorder and are continually organizing, classifying, cataloging, arranging and re-arranging things, and exerting control wherever they can. ElRon knew that fact and used it to make scientology APPEAR legitimate.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 1:14 pm 
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Mike, ??????

u rote,

>>> Actually Scientology doesn't say any of these things.


WTF dood, why are you giving me a whisle for faul play ?

Is this the friggin Clambake or WTF, common dood, whos side r u on ? ofcourse cos says these things.

And its not what it says literally on paper anyhow that is actually the main point and the key here.

Many policies conflict, but its the ones that consistently dominate that matter, you only know how this works through personal experience..

The point is Scientology is made up of many snippets of information, if you know which policies are applied and which arnt (just 4 PR purposes) and put those together an entirely different picture emerges of a fascist totalitarian police state, also a lot of it is only taught to SO staff and not made public

The key is, if you follow the policies through to their final conclusion you get G.W. Orwells 1984 multiplied by a zillion, that is what I was referring to, I thought that didn't require further explaining here amongst advanced critics.

Greets, Xenus_Nephew


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:13 pm 
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Olska,

"The concept of ultimate empowerment -- that by using scientology training and processes an individual person can gradually, eventually become like GOD and be "at cause" over matter, energy, space, time, life, as delineated on the grade chart.

That you can have all of life the way YOU want it, with all YOUR dreams and desires granted as YOU wish.

This is the big lie. It's very seductive.

..........

It begins with one Big Lie: that you are GOD, and you just forgot you were GOD."

Superb! I think you have put your finger on it exactly. I congratulate you for such a simple yet rational analysis of THE BIG LIE.

LRH said that absolutes were unattainable, and yet he often postulated absolute states such as Static, Ethical, Native State, Serenity of Beingness, Clear and OT.

I congratulate you on a very well thought out and clearly written post.

:proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud: :proud:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:16 pm 
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As I see it, the BIG LIE Of Dianetics is the Reactive Mind, and the BIG LIE of Scientology is the ultimate empowerment of the Godlike thetan.

This has been a great thread with some wonderful observations!

I learn so much from youse guys! ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:52 pm 
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On Xenu's Nephew's list:

I'm on the critc's site because I'm a critic, but I urge people to be factual because when we exagerrate we lose credibility with Scientologist who may happen to look at this site.

Another important point is that Scientology is different for Sea Org and Staff from what it is for public members. Most of the horror stories online are about life in the Sea Org which is harsher then life for non-SO staff, which itself is harsher than paying public.

While most public know that you can't get rich in the Sea Org, most have very little idea what really goes on there. When you post something like "In Scientology (insert Sea Org experience here)" a public Scientologist reading might think "I've been in Scientology 10 years and I've never seen that! This site is a bunch of lies!"

By references, I mean quotes from HCOB's PLs and recording lectures. There is enough bizarre material here that there is no need to exagerate or make stuff up.

So lets take these items one by one:

1. if you are ill you have done something wrong

As I remember, being sick means you are PTS - connected to a supressive person.

2. if you say LRH is a piece of shit you need to go to a forced labor camp

Only for Sea Org members - not public.

3. if you think scientology is a piece of shit you are insane

OK, that's true.

4. if you are not a scientologist/clear you have no rights

Where does it say this?

5. christ was a pedophile

This is from an alledged OT 8 ducument that appeared on the internet that is probably not genuine.

6. mohammed (islam) was a small town booster

OK, I think he did make some diparaging remoarks about Islam.

7. china is a place with too many chinks (lrh diary entry)

That's from his diary when he was a teenager. It is not from an HCOB, PL, recorded lkecture or other tech.

7. your body is a mass of dead space aliens

I'm sorry, where does it say this?

8. if you disagree with scientology you have MU's

OK, that's 3 that are somewhat correct, although you could have False Data or be an SP.

9. al money/property belongs to scientology

Again, where does it say this?

Mike

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Mike de Wolf
"A science that depends on Authority alone is a breath in the wind of truth and is therefore no science at all." - L. Ron Hubbard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:31 am 
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All of Xenui's nephews statements reflect lies that Scientology uses to justify its existence, and brainwash people into accepting its hypnotic authority. Even the sort of wierd statements you often hear bantered around in SCN facilities - such as that 'there are too many chinks to China'- is utlized to generally distort reality and present a mass of 'problems' that somehow Scientogy will handle. Meanwhile, Scientologists have done nothing to handle the real problems of the world, or even the neighborhood or city where they have their headquarters - Los Angeles. Well, they have handled the problem of how they can advance their own slefish interests by stealing governments grants by taking over the 'economic development' program in Hollywood. And that's how demented statements that are part of the 'unofficial' Scientology teachings help baffle Scientology followers - they can't figure out if Scientology is a fascist hate group or a progressive group because they keep getting hit with different 'teachings'. So, they simply stick with Scientology because it manifests as an 'authority', without even understanding what it stands for, really, or what side they are on. Scientology followers are lost within a hypnotic trance, not even being aware of what their church is up to right within their own city. But before we can fully discuss Scientology lies that keep their followers attached to it, it should be mentioned that there is more than one Scientology. There is Scientology the spiritualist racket, and there is Scientology as an organized criminal conspiracy, and Scientology as a fascist political conspiracy; the second two Scientologies are made up of inner groups. These are the folks who assasinated Lisa McPherson, because she was a traitor to the 'secret Scientology' - at least in their sick minds.


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