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 Post subject: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:43 pm 
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Where can my husband and I seek help if we are being kept away from a family member? This is urgent! Please help....

The Wog in the room...


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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:03 pm 
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Hi, Tunes! Welcome to the board. I moved your post out of the guest book to here, where people can see it.

You might try going to the ex-Scientologist message board for help on this one. (FORUM.EXSCN.NET)

Unfortunately, losing a family member is common in Scientology and extremely difficult to fix. They are experts at poisoning their members against non-members, including family (even husbands, wives and kids).

That's why many of us are here.

Still, there are cases were people have gotten their loved ones back.

I believe there is a book by Steve Hassan that might help. Hopefully Wieber will chime in with the title.

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"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/


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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:08 pm 
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If your family member is younger than 18, you may seek a legal recourse.

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“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.


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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:33 pm 
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The book by Steven Hassan is called Releasing the Bonds but the information in it is only good if someone is in contact and can talk to the cult member. It does give some things to do if the person is cut off but it's not that effective.

Marc Headley as Blownforgood had a method he said worked to get people out of the sea org. If disconnection has happened this may do the trick. Depending on circumstances the method may have to be modified to suit. You'll find his thread on this here:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24066&p=277658#p277658

$cientology's sea org has moved people around to keep family members from making contact. In some instances they will send them to another country.

Tunes, I recommend you do NOT divulge any information about what is going on with your family member or anything about them on this message board. If you must give updates on what is going on keep them vague and misleading. $cientology's office of special affairs monitors this message board.

I do look forward to your update that tells us your family member is out. By all means post that when it happens.

_________________
"Disconnection is both an act of war and an admission of defeat."
Jon Atack

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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:24 am 
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I think seeing this interview with an ex scientologist would be helpful. She tells the story of how her family did an intervention that was successful. She calls it "deprogramming" but deprogramming is heavier, uses force and is against the law. She's really describing an intervention.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=91242

I agree Steven Hassan's book is a must-read for you, Tunes.

It would be great if we could get more details about the intervention she talks about in the interview. Maybe the interviewee in the video could post here and answer questions. It would be helpful to me too. I have family in that I would like to get out too.

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“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
― Hannah Arendt


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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:19 am 
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I call it deprogramming, too, as in I managed to deprogram myself. But Dorothy is right, most people when they hear or read "deprogramming" it brings to mind very negative connotations. Some people even find "intervention" on the strong side.

I think in Tunes case the immediate problem has more to do with getting the family member away from the cult. If they have disconnected the problem is greater. If they have joined staff, greater still. If they have joined staff in the sea org that's the worst.

If disconnection has happened and the family member has not joined staff find people who were not involved in $cientology who were their friends. Contact them, get them to come and see you, educate them so they won't be hoodwinked by the cult and find out if they are willing to help you get your family member back. Building a team like that is dealt with in Releasing the Bonds. Doing that is probably still a good idea if they have joined staff locally. Your family member may not talk to you but they might talk to an old friend.

If they have joined the sea org and have moved to another city then it's time to figure out how to use Marc Headley's advice. Maybe some former sea org staff members could come forward and help with where a person who has joined the sea org will go. I've never been in the sea org so I'm not much help with that.

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"Disconnection is both an act of war and an admission of defeat."
Jon Atack

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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:17 am 
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Thank you so much for your help; how irronic that you would suggest Dr. Hanssan's books. I didn't realize that he had written any books. My husband is filling out a form that Molly emailed to us for his review; as soon as she recieves the form back she will set up a conference for us to speak with him. I had been trying to spin my wheels trying to get in contact with the Cult Awareness Organization in seeking councilling for my husband and I. However, in doing so, I'm pretty sure that I outed our concerns regarding my brother-in-law and his new wife entirely. I found out that the CofS purchased the the Cult Awareness Organization and then sued their newly purchased organization in order to invalidate the Cult Awareness... Needless to say, I'm pretty worried... The person we are being kept from is my 95 year-old father-in-law; we had always been the two family members who assisted him; suddenly my father-in-law is kept from seeing us alone... He thinks we are trying to have him found incompetent; he accused my husband of having a violent-temper... he seems to think that my husband has taken financially advantage of him... We can prove other wise and document it. My husband told his father that we wanted to see him with out the brother and new wife present; he refuses to do that now. If we try to speak to the brother or new wife; they hang up the phone. The new wife has endeared herself to the father's closest friend in the assisted living home; who is now convinced that my husband is an abusive son; not! My father-in-law is conviced that I'm trying to tear the family apart and that I have a controling influence over my husband; I wish? We have no idea where this is comming from. My husband took ill this past year and the brother was required to help a bit; between the new wife and her newly formed endearing friendship with my father-in-laws friend at the assisted living center; our life has turned into a nightmare. I've contacted Senior Protective Services to see if they can help intervine here... The problem is my father can't take any stress and does not want to hear about it; he is most of the time pretty coherent for his age... We contacted the Director at the Assisted Living Center to express our concerns; he thinks that my father-in-law is still pretty much in control of the situation. We will not be around the brother & new wife; they are too abusive to us. If we try to speak with my father-in-law he threatens to take my husband out of the will. The truth of the matter is the only thing he has left is a couple of fairly small insuance policies that my husband viewed when he was helping him to fill out the paper work for him to move into the assisted living facility. We could care the less who he leaves his will to. Currently the will leaves everything to my husband name only; as an encentive for my brother-in-law to leave Scientology. Final arrangements have already been made over 20 years ago; however, there are still expences that will be needed to cover his final arrangements. Like I said, the policies are not large; however, large enough for these two to take their final courses to make it to OT8... We don't hate my brother-in-law and we don't really know anything about the new wife; other than what we used to refer to as "The Elephant in the Closet," has since turned into a "Stampede of Elephants" since she has came into our lives... Not to mention the pain we both feel from being kept away from my father-in-law. It seems that we are being accused or having the brother & new wife re-project some strange ideas into my father-in-laws head that are completly false; and they are using the fathers friend as a vehicle to implant them... We don't know how to fight this anymore; we can't talk to the father and the conversations are controled by the new wife and the father's best friend when we do see him... This is not right... We do not know where to go with this?? Does any of this sound familiar to you... I'm writing a history of the family dynamics to send for Dr. Hanssn... Covering the period of when the brother first moved home; when I say the change in my father-in-law and his new fear to be around us alone is frightening... Especialy when the father seems so coherrent in all ways until we try to expain to him why we don't want to be around the Brother and his new wife; or his close friend until someone can straighten her out... We both feel lilke we have woken up in the middle of the Twillite Zone and don't know how to get out... We don't care if the Brother & new wife want to disconnect from us; they can believe what ever they want to believe. We are understandably concerned that what seems to be over-night; my father-in-law is affraid to be around us alone.

Thank you,

Tunes...


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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:13 am 
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It seems that the brother and wife think that the father-in-law has money that is to be left to someone in his will. On the other side of those two you will find a registrar, an executive director, an ethics officer, possibly a director of special affairs and if the money he has is substantial there will be other people further on up and in the organization.

They have a team. You need a team.

If his money goes to you $cientology will not get it. The brother and wife are probably thinking along the line of getting the money for $cientology services, while the staff members behind them are thinking of getting the money, all of the money as soon as possible, like today! There will be nothing left for the father-in-law's funeral. $cientology will get it all. That will be the plan.

It doesn't seem that the brother-in-law and the wife are interested in getting the father-in-law into $cientology either. If you have power of attorney I would suggest you get a lawyer and invoke it. A sudden change in behavior at that age indicates that one is not of sound mind and therefore they are not fit to make another will. That's callous but you may need to use that tactic.

If you have other family members you can bring into this do it now. In the meantime, when you discuss things with your father-in-law, brother-in-law and the wife keep your tone and attitude calm, if not pleasant. Do not tell them what your are doing or what your plans are. Do not raise your voice. Do not display anger. Do not take any bait to get you angry. Do not say anything critical or disparaging about $cientology. A bit more difficult for you to do is do not appear to be in a state of covert hostility. If you smile that can be taken as covert hostility. If you're nice that can be taken as covert hostility. Since the other side has much to gain if they can they will peg you as being covertly hostile.

They will also be using third party statements and behavior with your father-in-law to estrange his relationship with you. If your father-in-law seems to be not long for this world, so to speak, it might be worth your while to suggest prearranging his funeral and having him pay for it. Any funeral home will do that. The other thing you need to insist on is that while your father-in-law continues to live that the money he has is used to keep him comfortable and in a situation where he is getting very good care.

At the same time you may be able to start using Steven Hassan's techniques from Releasing the Bonds on the brother-in-law and the wife. It would serve the $cientology organization right if you could intervene sufficiently to get those two out of it. If you can do that you might find they aren't as evil as they appear to be now.

All the best with what you're doing. I hope it works out in your favor and your father-in-law's favor.

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"Disconnection is both an act of war and an admission of defeat."
Jon Atack

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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:37 am 
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Thank you so much; I really do appreciate all of your help more than you know. If nothing else you are confiming to me that we are not being parinoid is suspecting the Brother & his new wifes motives. I think it is well past intervention for either of these two; they hang up the phone if we try and speak to them... All we want to do is to let them know that if we can't agree to disagree with them regarding whatever it is they are into; then we do not need to have contact with them. Unfortunately, Cane & Able here share the same father; and this brother does not appreciate the other brother & his new wife trying to take advantage of his father's frail state. The brother has already managed to drain the father financially, and took most all of his fathers personal belongings that were being held in storage; all that is left is the two small policies that I mentioned and we just want to make sure that those are preserved if needed to take care of the fathers final arrangements. Moreover, what little time is left we don't want to be kept away from the father unless those two are arround. The new wife is telling us what we can and can not talk about with the father.

Thank you for your advice; I know your right! It has been very difficult to keep our tempers in check while this is going on; that alone makes us look a whole lot less credible...
Please forgive my scattered ramblings. Neither my husband nor I have had too much sleep over this deal in the past few weeks; trying to get help with this situation has been difficult. When we try to explain to someone not familiar with Scientology, exactly what is happening, and why we suspect that the father is being taken undue advantage of; we get some pretty strange looks... What can I say? We have lived with the "Elephant in the Room" and now we can't live with it anymore...

Cheers,
Tunes


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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:12 pm 
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If relatives suddenly accuse you of being an SP, figure out if the only people who could have outed you were the (now CoS-controlled) Cult Awareness Network (CAN). If so, write down all the facts (who what when where) now about what you revealed ONLY to CAN, that will prove the danger and evil of the present Cult Awareness Network.


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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:38 pm 
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That reminds me of the two lines:

"Good news! You're not paranoid. They are out to get you."

"New definition for paranoid: someone who has all the facts."

People tend to paint other people with themselves. That's my observation. When they come across a real psychopath they just can't fathom it. They just won't believe it. A victim under a psychopath's manipulative control doesn't know they are a victim, thinks they are being well treated and will defend the perpetrator of their abuse to a long end. Psychopaths use people's conscience against them in order to victimize them. They get material gain and a feeling of superiority from doing what they do.

Yes, those are generalized statements. There is such a thing as a psychopath. There is no such thing as a suppressive person.

The people from whom you are getting strange looks haven't been involved in $cientology or any other cult and then been deprogrammed. They paint other people with their own personalities and won't believe that such abusive conditions and people can exist.

Most of the people on this message board get exactly what you are talking about, Tunes.

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"Disconnection is both an act of war and an admission of defeat."
Jon Atack

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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:53 am 
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I'mglib,

Today I watched the entire Los Angeles press conference. My question for this board is this, why are the authorities not doing something to shut this corporation from hell down? My husband just spoke with his father a bit ago; and our worst fears have been confirmed. Is there anything that we can do? You told me to build a team; what kind of team do we need? Do the police listen to you if you speak to them? Nancy Many had stated in one of the interview's, that she had been in contact with the FBI; why in two years have the FBI not done anything to shut this faux church down? People are reporting kidnapping, forced abortions, slave labor, beatings, and somewhere in all of this I'm hearing exactly the same kind of manipulative techniques, and undue influnce being used on a frail old man by one of his son's that we are witnessing in our own family. Some of this stuff sounds like Federal crimes to me! We are not bad people; but suddenly my father-in-law is being turned against us, and we can't even talk to the brother without him hanging up the phone on my husband.

Has anyone contacted Childrens/Adults Protective Services? IF so what are they doing about these reports? Is there any ex-members that can speak to us or advise us how to handle this situation? Why isn't the Los Angeles Times keeping on top of this story? Why isn't someone demanding that arrests be made in order to shut this corporation down? Is there any legal orgaization familiar with this type of, I don't even know what to call it; that we can goto to seek help?

How do all of you contain your anger with what these people are doing? My husband is besides himself right now; he say's he does not even know who his brother is anymore. They are using his dad's friend to influence his dad; and she is not in much better shape than he is. All of a sudden we have became the two least credible people in the world as far as his dad is concerned; we don't even know where that is comming from?

Tunes...


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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:44 am 
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Tunes, I know it's crazy but people have been trying for years to get law enforcement to do something, but nothing has worked. Basically the problem is Scientology is seen as a religion, and that squelches any investigation or criticism. Even if the cops go in to do a welfare check on someone, the person is produced before the cops, and says they are just fine...and the cops leave.

The FBI was doing an investigation, but it seems to be stalled.

The Headleys sued the church for not paying real wages and for human trafficking among other things...and they lost the case because the judge didn't want to get involved in the workings of the church...because of freedom of religion. Just like how the FLDS is left alone, and other cults.

Still, people are working on many angles. The Headleys have appealed, people are hoping for the FBI to pick up the investigation, or perhaps the IRS will review their exempt tax status and take that away. People appear at city council meetings and county meetings, etc, to warn public officials who might be considering doing some favor for the church.

Mainly people are trying to make the public aware of how evil this church is, so that they can't suck in new members. Far harder, though, is getting people out.

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"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/


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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:48 am 
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How do we de-program my father-in-law & his friend? Has any Scientologist ever filed a complaint with the Department of Labor? I don't get it? No one is having a problem going after the Catholic Priests for the abuses suffered in the Catholic Church? What is the difference? I did write to my Congressman to have the CofS tax status reviewed... Neither my husband nor I are in Scientology, we have had to tolerate it; which we did until we noticed that my husband’s father was being unduly influenced. We know that even just a very short time ago he was even more against Scientology than we are; until this latest change, quite frankly I just thought it was just plain weird!

Weird turned to a visceral reaction after watching my sister-in-law die after being treated for breast cancer with Voodoo, vitamins, coffee & tea; in the end, once the cancer metastasized she was given traditional treatments but it was way too late by then. The doctor who treated her and several other women for cancer was arrested and sent to prison; I cringe every time I think about this. Like I said I'm not even a Scientologist.

However, how my sister-in-laws cancer was treated haunts me to this very day; almost as if I carry a perpetrators guilt from knowing about her loony treatments and not trying to do more about it. I suppose there is no law if someone does not want to seek treatment for cancer at all; but what I don't understand is that doctor that was treating these women was arrested and sent to prison, all of the women to my knowledge were Scientologist; so why didn't the people who arrested this doctor turn a blind eye to the victims of this type of nonsense? I just don't understand? There is way too may victims speaking out for the authorities to just stand by and taking a blind-eye to what is going on here?

Tunes...


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 Post subject: Re: Help for disconnected family members?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Part of the problem is the treatment of Scientology as a religion by the USA government, as I'mglib noted. But there is another part of the problem that very few ex-Scientologists know about. To know this part you must live in a big city such as NYC and, perhaps, LA.

CoS donate a lot of money to election campaigns of NY politicians who return the favor in one form or another. I have a NYC Scientology magazine which was sent to me via regular mail in 2008 (special issue). There was a large Scientology event in NYC. A lot of local politicians, including Charles Rangel and former NYC mayor Ed Koch, participated in that event.

Sen. McCain, who gets his share of campaign money from CoS, regularly criticizes the German government for “violation of religious rights”. All this shit goes largely unnoticed because majority of the ex-Scientologists live in small cities; nothing of this sort is happening in their residential areas.

We all love to hate Tom Cruise, I am not an exception from this rule. But he is a useful idiot who gives Scientology a bad name. Travolta, on the other hand, is far more dangerous motherfucker because he uses his celebrity status to gain access to the politicians and to convince them that Scientology is a harmless group.

_________________
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.


Last edited by Demented LRH on Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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