Greetings, all!

I have been a "lurker" for the past several months, and I am now inspired to come out from the shadows and participate in your so-very-stimulating discussions.

Up until this past April, 2001, I had never even been on the Internet. Then our computer system at work was updated and revamped, and we got Internet access. We are allowed to use the Internet on our breaks and lunches, only no porn sites (I've no interest there anyway, woo-hoo!)

I got into Scientology around 1972, when I was 13 years old. I did several courses, but received only a little auditing, which was for a special action I needed during the 2-D Alignment course. As far as I was concerned, Scn was IT! No ifs, ands, or buts about it. But then, I had been "indoctrinated" by my older sister and her husband before I ever even set foot inside an org.
The only thing that kept me from going a lot further was the expense. I was just a poor Junior High School student at the time; my parents weren't thrilled at their children getting into Scientology, but to their credit, they gave us the freedom to make our own decision to be involved in it. So I took one course at a time, as I was able to pay for them from my meager part-time after-school earnings.

When the "Solution to Inflation" came out, I was dumbfounded. I felt like the proverbial donkey with the carrot being held out front, trying to catch up with it but never being quite able to. I would say that this was the first (and perhaps most powerful) thing that eventually persuaded me that there was a rift between the stated goals of Scientology (To Clear The Planet) and the reality of what the Powers That Be wanted to achieve (mega-multi-millions $$$).

So, after graduating High School, I worked on staff at the Denver Org. My dream was to join the Sea Org. I signed my billion-year contract, and was so very full of the grand purpose of bettering the world. My expenses were quite minimal; I went on food stamps, and my share of the rent at the house that I was sharing with 3 other staff members was only $40 a month. I think back to my very first payday.....a grand total of $5.27!!! I had to keep borrowing money (from my parents, who weren't too happy about it) just to pay my meager portion of rent.

Alas, however, I was denied eligibility to Sea Org Staff, on account of the fact that I had used LSD a few times. I was so bitterly disappointed! This was soon after the purification r/d had come out; it just did not seem right that on one hand it was claimed that these drugs would be cleaned from your body, yet you STILL couldn't join SO if you'd done acid! This was another BIG outpoint for me, something further for my analytical mind to gnaw on.

When I started browsing the internet this past April, I started to think about one of the last things I had heard as an active scientologist: Diana Hubbard had announced sometime in ‘79 or ‘80 that we would clear the planet by the year 1984! I just hadn't heard or read anything in the news about scientology for all those years since I routed off staff (after working for about 6 months; there was no way I could survive on $5 a week), and I did a search for "scientology" just to see if anything had been said about why the planet was not yet clear.

HAHAHA! I think now, how hysterically naive of me, to think that COS would give reasons for not making a target; indeed, for me to think that they would even ACKNOWLEDGE past goals that had never been achieved. One of the first things I discovered in my search was Robert Vaughn Young's affidavit regarding the death of LRH. I read it with growing amazement. After that I started visiting every critical site I came across, read every critical book that had been posted to the Internet, checking out all of the media reports. I felt like I had been living under a rock for the past 20 years!

I am flabbergasted to read about life in the Sea Org, with the RPF, the bogus Ethics conditions (another element that, as much as I believed in the validity of Scn, looked just plain nuts to me), the beans & rice, the forced abortions/divorces, and the disconnections. And yet, although I never experienced any of these things for myself (there, but for the grace of Timothy Leary, go I), I did not doubt that these things have indeed happened, and are still happening. I never thought I'd be so happy to have been an ex-acid head!!!!!

So, for the past 8 months or so, I have been absorbing as much information as I can get ahold of. And not everything critical rings true for me; some people strike me as not really having known what it's like to be a really gung-ho scientologist. I feel that I can separate the chaff from the grain pretty well, though. The bottom line is, it is SO VERY VERY WONDERFUL to find a whole world full of people out there that have had similar experiences, and who know what I'm talking about!!! Gawd, I love the Internet!

And I had no idea how indoctrinated I still was! When I read the OT III story, which I was very anxious to do, since that was the "big big mystery" everyone wanted to know about, I just couldn't believe it! Body Thetans??? Body Thetans!?!! And later that day, I caught myself musing about how a health problem I had been troubled with lately might be caused by body thetans. It was at that point that I knew I was going to have to make a conscious effort to restructure my thinking.....

I bookmarked Operation Clambake and have been visiting every week, if not every day. For the first time since quietly leaving Scientology, I feel now like I'm back in the warm presence of friends and confidants; only THIS time, the others are "real people", not Rondroids (I love that word.....)!!! And I'm still such an unsure net user, I wasn't even sure I could post comments to the discussions, until I did so yesterday.

Thanks, thanks, and thanks again, guys!!!! (Now I've got to try to get on ARS....I'm like ANONYMOUS; I can't get into ARS either. I will try Lorelei's suggestions.....)

---Saguaro Rose

Welcome, Saguaro. It's a treat to read a post like yours and feel like we've helped unmask Scientology for you.

You know, you gave away a lot of information about yourself in your post. Scientology lurkers do read this site. You're probably okay as long as you are careful. This means
1. No jokes about Cruise missiles (which got Keith Henson arrested)

2. No posting long paragraphs of Scientology text on your own website, if you have one. COS threatened www.xenu.net's Internet Service Provider, Interliant about this site. Although Interliant probably would have won any lawsuit, they dropped Andreas rather than risk legal expenses.

3. No posting long paragraphs of Scientology text HERE (they'll threaten you legally)

4. No picketing with pushing or shoving - Minton got in big trouble for acting panicky when threatened by COS goons. He pushed them away with his picket stick, and was charged with assault.

5. Be careful about naming names if you talk about crimes. You might have to worry about libel.

On the bright side, you don't seem to have family in COS (or you would have seen or heard of some of the abuses). Some of us have family in the org who are still cordial with us, and who must not know that we are critics, because we may be the only lifeline back to the real world.

Meanwhile you can jump into the message board here anytime. It's more civil and conversational than a.r.s., where many, many posters talk a lot, but few listen. On the other hand, a.r.s. is on Usenet, not the World Wide Web (both Usenet and WWW are parts of the Internet), so it's very safe from attack. You can also just read A.R.S. week in review:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/WIR/

Saguaro Rose: "Alas, however, I was denied eligibility to Sea Org Staff, on
account of the fact that I had used LSD a few times."

The CIA won't take you either.

By the way, you were dropping acid before you were thirteen!?

Welcome, Saguaro Rose. We're happy you're here and hope you stick around.

The CIA takes drunks but not acidheads? So much for diversity in employment.

Welcome Saguaro!! I can't wait to read more about what you have to express.
.....................................

Re:Drugs, the only way to find out about if someone has done acid is through a spinal tap. Does the Sea Org. examine by tapping? I'd like to see the statistics about people who have been on the Sea Org. that have done LSD. Sounds like a covert operation already in progress by the FBI. This is a whole new post entirely.

......................................
Saguaro, any relation to Indians of Arizona?

-SD-

Welcome, Saguaro Rose!

friend

Why have a spinal tap, when you can hook up to the e-meter? (Rush right down to your local drug rehab place and give them this news. )

Don Carlo: Thanks! Yes, I intend to be careful and not post any long excerpts; I've seen all of the hullabaloo regarding this. Fair Use quotes only. And I only know one person who is still in Scn (an ex-boyfriend, but we're still friends) who, just by coincidence I am sure, has the initials E.J. It has been good to read other peoples stories and affidavits, and in so doing, get a much deeper and broader viewpoint regarding the outpoints of Scn.

EJ: I was 11 when I first tried acid. Seems young, I know; but I was a wild child and I grew up very early. It also helps (wrong word, maybe) to have older siblings that have already experimented with things; they got me into all kinds of bad stuff, but I survived and grew into a clear-thinking, responsible adult all the same. And come to think of it, so did they!
I look forward to discussing things with you; although I consider myself an EX-Scio, there was a great deal of good that I got out of it, and that I still use today. (And I'm not planning to apply for the CIA anytime soon.....

SanDiego: Nope, no Native American relations, although I work with a lot of them, and love them all dearly. And, I'm not sure what the SO does (besides hooking you up to the Emeter) to find your past drug deeds; I'm just SO glad that I didn't get around to pushing it that far......they might have accepted me! YIKES!

Charlie, RonIsXenu, friend, and Freeborn: thanks, guys, and I'm looking forward to interesting discussions with all of you.

You all make me glad I un-lurked!

Saguaro Rose,

it's good to have a fellow Scientologist here on board, someone who can see both sides. Did you cross The Bridge yet?

New Guy

Saguaro Rose:

I got into Scientology in 1972 also. I was 26, had a college degree and moved into an apartment shared by 4 other Scientologists. My auditing and academy levels cost $9,000. I didn't even have to dip into my savings, in fact I was richer after my year in Scientology than before. If I had it to do over again, I would.

I say this as one who left the church for twenty years, and was drawn back in by relentless calls to my house several times a week for years.

Then they expelled me because I went bankrupt and lost my credit cards.

I am now going up the bridge faster and enjoying it more with independent auditors. I have recovered much of my wealth. If I were to go back in time, I would do the same thing over!

I do not, however, endorse DM.

New Guy: I don't consider myself a fellow Scientologist; I consider myself an Ex-Scientologist. It's just that I did get a lot out of it when I was in; but the outpoints were too great for me to continue. I don't know.....maybe I should become a Freezoner? It's definitely a thought.....

RIG: At the time I got in, I was just a poor junior high school student, and I took all the classes I could afford to as I was able to pay for them. It was the extravagant price increases that ARC-broke me. It really angered me, because I already considered the prices to be high. And, no matter what lame-ass excuse they give for it, if the point was really to clear as many people as possible, Scientology would be available to more people than the very rich and the very willing-to-go-into-deep-debt.

I have to say, though; the affidavits I've read from so many people who have gone clear and OT, combined with what I have observed from OT's I had known, have made me realize that the abilities that have long been touted are false. I don't remember who it was, but one statement I read that was made by an OT was that if he had simply been told that, at the end of the bridge, he would feel good, have better perceptions of people and life in general, and just basically be a happier, more well adjusted person, he would have been satisfied with his wins. But it was the unfulfulled promises of being able to operate independently from his body, and be able to be "at cause over life", that was so disappointing. And he said, he surely would not have paid the hundreds of thousands of dollars that it took to get to where he was. See, I didn't realize until I discovered these critical sites, that NOBODY had actually achieved the ability to operate independently as a being.

I already had beliefs that we are all beings in bodies, and we have lived for a very long time, before I ever entered Scn. I still think that the ability to operate independently from a body is somehow possible, if not achievable at this time. I really think that LRH was onto something here; but his jealousy of others taking his work and expanding on it, combined with his extreme paranoia, caused the tech to go in a wierd, self-serving direction.

When I was on staff, David Mayo was a household name (org-hold?). It was widely known and spoken about, how Mayo would be the person who the tech hat would be passed onto. From what I have read since, it seems to me that the tech might REALLY have gone somewhere if he had, indeed, been left to carry on. After all, NOTS was all his doing! He was something of a personal hero to me. It was when I read that he had been declared that I knew I would never be returning to the COS. That's when I realized that the church had become a criminally run organization. By all that is sane, David Mayo SHOULD have been THE "DM" in Scientology!!!

I read his and his wife's stories (I think it was the interview with Jon Atack, I'm not sure), and I just wanted to weep over the waste of it all, the way they were treated. Just like all the other high-level old timers that were so very dedicated and knowledgable, but either declared, sent to the RPF, or just kicked out. THIS IS NOT SANE.....THIS IS NUTS!!!!!

As far as Hubbard goes, I have lost most of my respect for him. It took me a long time to accept the truth of his life, and what really went on during the early Sea Org years. The statement that most says it all for me, is a line I read that one of his earlier associates said, "Ron, you're like a cow who gives a good bucket of milk, then kicks it over".

Okay, I'm a-steppin' off my soapbox now.....

Saguaro Rose:

I have seen people make great gains from book one Dianetic auditing. While on course at the COS, my supervisor asked me to audit a PC that was on the Book 1 course (which at that time cost about $100 at the COS). I was on another course, but happy to help. I didn’t know what I was getting in for. I was asked to help audit out a secondary the guy had. What I didn’t know was that the secondary was the recent loss of his young wife.

The tears started flowing and I knew I had to be there until he completely ran the thing out. I thought I was going to be there all night! The guy was finishing his second box of Kleenex tissue. Then he stopped being grief stricken and got bored with the process. He said “I guess I got it all”, so I acknowledged the EP. I was still not certain that he had gotten the end phenomena. He brightened up real fast, though, and was soon laughing and smiling. I went back to my study a happy and somewhat relieved man! (this happened at an official COS org)

The prices my independent (or freezone) auditor charges are in line with Ron’s policy and considerably cheaper than those of the COS (except for book one auditing). I think auditing in the freezone is a good investment. However, price and the timing of the auditing do make an enormous difference!

As I have said before, I don’t endorse DM and I don’t endorse everything the COS does. But, if you can control the COS, you can get a lot out of it.

Saguaro Rose:

Having been expelled from the COS, I know that I have the Constitutional right to practice my religion, which is Scientology. I just can't call it Scientology because that name is, I believe, a trademark.

Perhaps some of the problems that Scientology is having have to do with the justice system, and not with Scientology!

Anyway, one freezone auditor I like can be seen at the site www.exscientologist.com.

Rose,

This New Guy is probbaly a clone.
i.e. a scientologist or a troll impersonating a known critic poster.