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 Post subject: My experience with a Scientologist boyfriend
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 3:07 am 
Part One:

I dated a Scientologist for one year, we broke up about 1 1/2 years ago. I still feel a need to tell people about what I saw and experienced through this connection with Scientology. When I met my boyfriend, I didn't know he was in Scientology. By the time I guessed (due to all the L. Ron Hubbard books at his apartment) I already thought I was in love with him. Plus, due to my own emotional state, I wasn't able to walk away right then and there. Instead, I felt compelled to try and make things work. When I read more about Scientology on the internet, I became very scared and wondered how to free my boyfriend. I took Steve Hassan's advice and tried to do things slowly. I tried to get him to start using his own critical thinking skills and to look at things logically. It worked to some extent, though he is still in Scientology and we no longer are in contact. But, the emotional toll this took on me was quite a bit. I now pray almost daily for the people that are enslaved, both mentally and physically. I believe Scientology enslaves your mind and prevents you from using critical thinking skills or any sort of analysis on your own.

When I first met my ex-boyfriend, he wasn't in the best of situations. I didn't know at first how deeply he was in debt. He was almost 30 and his only posessions seemed to be a stereo, a waterbed, and a bookcase full of Scientology books. He has no plans for his future, for retirement, for supporting a family. However, he was such a likable and lovable person. He was shy, but very sweet. He was funny and it was fun to laugh with him. Due to some experiences as a teenager, he was uncomfortable socially around women, he thought he was ugly (not true!). When we met, we connected instantly (avoid this! Be careful of people that you feel you connect with instantly!!!!) and we started spending alot of time together. As he became less shy, his real personality started to come out. And, that is the person I fell in love with. But, there was another side to this, the Scientology side. My boyfriend had started a small company but let it be taken over by another Scientologist who came in and promised to make the company worth alot of money and then to sell it and give everyone involved a bit profit. My boyfriend believed this and never questioned anything. He seemed to let other people direct him and make things happen for him instead of making things happen for himself. This new owner was not a good owner, in my view. My boyfriend worked like a slave 6 days a week and the new owner gave him hardly any pay. The reasoning was that they had to put everything into the company to make it big, fast. This new owner gave not attention to making sure the person doing the work, my boyfriend, had a living wage.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 3:10 am 
Here are things I saw with my own eyes concerning behaviors of a person in Scientology.

1) My boyfriend jumped whenever the new owner said jump. He didn't question anything. He never questioned that he was doing most of the physical work, had needs like paying for groceries and his rent, and he was getting maybe 100 dollars a week. My boyfriend just believed this was the right thing to do because the company would be really big and then he would have alot of money when the company was finally sold.

2) He never questioned whether he was getting his money's worth out of Scientology. I was his first real girlfriend when he was in his late 20's. He became a Scientologist when he was a teenager right out of high school. 10 years and hardly any dates???? Hmmmmm, this wouldn't get a high rating with Consumer Reports!!!!

3) All the terms that Scientologists use seem to get in the way of communication with outsiders. I refused to use the terms that he was using. I asked him, doesn't this make it hard for you to communicate with people that aren't Scientologists? My boyfriend admitted that it did. This practice seems to cut down on communication and to isolate the person from non-Scientologists.

4) The knowledge reports were upsetting to me. I couldn't believe my boyfriend had to write one because someone said something against Scientology. My boyfriend tried to explain this to me, why it was a good thing, but it just seems sneaky and a way for them to get info to use against you or others if needed.

5) Scientologists seem to believe that everyone outside Scientology has a big problem. When people steal or lie, it's because they don't have Scientology. Yet, in the course of the year, I saw and was told by boyfriend about situations where his business partners had lied, had forged a signature, had taken some money that belonged to the company, that sort of thing. I was angry about that, yet my boyfriend just said, it's being handled. Yeah, the offending members had to do some extra Scientology stuff. Yet, how is this different from when outsiders lie or steal? They are still doing it as Scientologists! WHen one becomes a Scientologist, one isn't automatically amoung people that are less "criminal". It is just hidden better because they have to go through Scientology mediation instead of taking things to normal authorities, like the police or to court.

6) The WISE stuff didn't seem to work out that well. The company was being run under WISE "tech", and the new owner (who wasn't as swift as first believed) put money and effort into having a big office space when they hardly any clients. But, according to WISE, the first thing was to have some physical space that was your own. Or, something like that. They followed WISE yet the company still sank like a rock. Chaos seemed to run rampant and common sense approaches to running the business were overlooked.

7) My boyfriend tried to get me interested in Scientology. He told me about the initial training. About how you had to learn to communicate. He said the very first thing you learn was how to "be there". I read on the internet about how this is done by sitting still for a long time and not blinking and that this causes a person to go into a trance-like state and have less critical-thinking ability. ANother training method my boyfriend told me about was "finding one's buttons". How they say things to you that make you react, and keep saying them until you no longer react, you can just take it. What is the point of this? To make you shut off your reactions?

8)My boyfriend talked about clears and how great that was. He did tell me about one clear he knew that still got angry, yet it was because he chose to be angry, not because of his reactive mind acting up. Ummmm, is this just a cover-up for the fact that technology didn't work? Why be angry (and lower on the tone scale)? Isn't it better to choose to be happy?

9) The tone scale seemed fishy to me. It seemed odd to assign moral values to feelings and to rank them. It seemed to me that since anger and doubt were very low on the tone scale, you wouldn't want to admit to having those feelings.

10) My boyfriend told about how they don't talk to each other about their cases, that they all have to concentrate on handling their problems. But, if you can't talk about it, aren't you a bit isolated? If you have feelings that things aren't going so well, yet everyone else seems to be saying things are great, won't you be less likely to speak up? Won't you start to question yourself and think you aren't doing something right?

11) I thought it was weird that having doubt was bad. In my view, doubt is a safe-guard. It allows you to stand back a bit, to get information and observe and analyze before you make a decision. My boyfriend was in doubt about his company, and he had to go through some formula for doubt to get out of it. It didn't make sense to me, it was something about defining your enemies and dealing an effective blow to those enemies. My boyfriend spent hours, trying to define his enemies. I said that I didn't get it, and he said, "yeah, this is really deep stuff.". It seemed he thought because he couldn't understand it, it must be really great and something like rocket science.

12) My boyfriend was not happy I wasn't receptive to being in Scientology. He said later that our relationship was going the way it was supposed to. He thought that he could tell me how fun and great it was, how it was "so true", and then I would want to look into it, experience it for myself. Yet, why do I have to "experience it for myself"? I don't have to go bungee jumping to know that I don't want to do it. I am not a thrill seeker, I'd rather stay home and read a book. Later, he tried to make me feel bad about myself. We were spending alot of time together, and I didn't have many friends. He pointed that out to tell me I had a problem that Scientology could fix.

13) WHen he was really having problems with the company and thinking about leaving, the owner tried to get him back on track by having him go through this "Repairing Past Ethics" counselling. At the same time, I was talking to him and saying, you know, what about what you had originally wanted to do when you were in high school? What about that? That got my boyfriend thinking about his original plans to go for an Electronics degree. He was a whiz with anything mechanical or electrical. Luckily he decided to leave the company and pursue going to college. He was able to find a good, steady job as a electrical technician at a non-Scientology company. Later,
he switched his goals and said all he wanted to do was make money and do Scientology. I was suspicious at this time that other church members were in a struggle with me over him and they were counselling him and coaching him. All of a sudden they offered him free courses and said he had some money in an account (that they never told him about before) so he could take even more courses. Before this he was so broke he couldn't pay for the courses, and noone offered him a free course or told him about some credit he had towards courses.

14) My boyfriend really seemed stuck in a teen-age mentality even though he was almost 30. I don't mean a "getting drunk and smashing pumpkins on Halloween" sort of thing. I mean a real naive approach to things, a tendency to let others direct him and do things for him. Instead of thinking things through, he turned to those Scientology formulas (like the one for Doubt) to decide what he should do. Things that should have taken a person a short time to decide took him alot longer as he pondered those confusing formulas.

15) He never questioned why all of the other people in his company had bad credit and money problems. Even the owner that was supposed to be so great with business. I mentioned this, but he snapped "what do you know about this?" at me.

Our relationship really went south as he started having some good things happen, like leaving the company and getting a good job with great benefits and making plans to go to a technical college. It seemed like he didn't need me so much after that, which is probably a good thing, and he could get back into Scientology since he started having money again. As a daughter of an alcoholic, I was very good at taking care of others, taking their problems upon myself and really carrying their load. I felt angry thinking that I was used, but if I was I let it happen. Maybe if he had hit rock bottom, which he almost did, he would have had to go back to his parents and live with them until he got back on his feet. Maybe he would have realized that he got nowhere in 10 years with Scientology. I was hoping that once he got a decent job and got on his feet he would realize that there was a better way than Scientology. But, getting him on his feet only caused him to run right back there. He once told me about how he was when he was in junior high, about how he liked to fix everything mechanical and how he could make the whole classroom, even the teacher, laugh with his funny jokes. Yet, he never realized that those talents that made him likable and a great mechanic he had before he entered Scientology. Scientology didn't give him that, they were part of him at birth. And, that is what I loved about him. We were constantly laughing, and I admired his skills at fixing things so very, very much. BUt, I could never be a part of Scientology. I grew up with a very controlling father and from an early age I resisted being controlled. I wanted to think for myself, to look at things in my own way. Loving someone isn't enough to give up your right to use your mind to look at things critically and logically, your right to ask questions, your right to information.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 9:01 am 
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Anonymous: It sounds like you really cared about him, but you were very lucky that the relationship didn't go any further.

I married into a scientologist family (although my marriage is no longer). The beginnings of my relationship with my ex were very similiar to what you describe. I had the same lines used to try to get me in (the hard sell was after I was married, so for the sake of my marriage I did end up "taking an honest look" at Scientology---because if I didn't our marriage "had no future" ), and I made many of the same observations. Unfortunately, I had to make them from inside the Church. :(

I was never really a believer (taking an honest look took care of that for me), so even while taking courses I lived in constant fear that they would eventually talk my spouse into joining staff, or that we would actually have money to spend someday and then I would REALLY lose him to the church, or that we would have children and there was no way I wanted the church near my children. My Ex eventually left the church, following my refusal to go back there (this was before our breakup), but I suspect he might have since joined again. I'm glad I don't really know for sure.

I know it may not feel like it at times, but you were spared a lot of heartache. If he couldn't get out, at I'm very glad that at least you aren't in.

Thanks so much for sharing your story and your observations. I hope for him that the blinders will come off someday soon.

D.J.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:47 pm 
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Thanks for your story, Anonymous. You have a lot of insight.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 2:37 pm 
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Hi Anon and D.J. Ridley,

Thanks for sharing your personal experiences. You were very fortunate that you did not have children. My ex and I had two. We divorced when they were three and ten years old.
He has been (and still is) a scientologist since 1974.

Read Tom Padgett's story for a look at what can happen if your spouse is a scientologist and you have children.

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/Scientology

(It may take a little time to load)

Scroll down to THE SCIENTOLOGY WAR MEMORIAL where you will find Tom Padgett's story along with these. Scroll past this and you will come to the links for the Padgett story.

GRAHAM E. BERRY, ESQ.

(He defended the victims of Scientology and was utterly ruined by Scientology when he refused to give in to its oppressive tactics designed to scare him away.)

KEITH HENSON

(Keith sought political asylum in Canada when threatened with imprisonment for practicing free speech in the United States.)

TOM PADGETT

(Tom left the cult, but his wife didn't. Scientology is using its vast resources to use the legal system in Madisonville, Kentucky to deny Tom access to his children in an effort to shudder him into silence.)

BOB MINTON

(Bob is a millionaire hero who stepped forward to "just say no" to the crimes perpetrated daily by Scientology.)

JESSE PRINCE

(Jesse is the former #2 in command of Scientology who bravely stepped forward to expose the cult and help its victims.)

STACY BROOKS

(Stacy is a former high-level Scientology Sea Org officer who also stepped forward to help expose the cult and help the victims.)

THE LISA McPHERSON TRUST

(This organization is dedicated to sticking to the side of Scientology like the advisory on a pack of cigarettes to warn the public of the risks inherent in involvement in Scientology.)

ANDREAS HELDAL-LUND

(webmaster of the famous www.xenu.net site--undressing Scientology one lie at a time).

Tigger

_________________
COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS

"If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the loneliness of imprisonment, the agony of torture, or the pangs of starvation, you are ahead of 500 million people in the world."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 6:06 pm 
Anonymous: Good for you for not letting yourself get sucked in. It is terribly difficult when someone you love is so deeply immersed.

My ex-boyfriend (but we are still friends) is, as far as I know, still in. I have been thinking a lot lately about how I would like to talk to him, and see if I can't steer him into checking out these critical websites. I think that maybe I'm a little nervous about him "turning me in" and writing up a KR, maybe getting me declared. Not that being declared would break my heart, nosirree! It's the dead-agenting crap that goes with the territory that I'd like to avoid (not that I would be worth the effort to them, but better safe than sorry!).

Fortunately, what I felt for him turned out to not be love. But, I admire your ability to stay independent and critical. It's so good to hear "success stories" such as yours, thank you for sharing with us!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 6:26 pm 
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Tigger, are your children grown now? If so, did your ex try to inculcate them into Scientology? And if he did, was he successful? I would be very interested in resources regarding what to tell children about Scientology if one of the parents remains and how to deter them from becoming a Scientologist. My ex and I have taken the approach of saying nothing. He doesn't want to incur my wrath and I don't want them having a positive view of it. (They don't even know the word 'Scientology', although I'm not sure this is the wisest approach.) Do you--or anyone reading--have any ideas on this? I really think this topic is an important one, not only for someone in a situation like my own (one in and one out), but for the general population at large, particularly if Scientology expands further. You know, tips on how to give a child the tools to safeguard them from getting involved in a mind, spirit and life controlling cult like Scientology--a very destructive activity.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 7:24 pm 
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Leave "Captive Hearts, Captive Minds," by Tobias & Lalich, lying around, if they're old enough to understand hypnotism. It doesn't use the $cientology name, and it talks about other cults, too, but it's really interesting in the mind-control area. You can also print out topics on mind-control from the Factnet web site and leave them where they can see them.

Even if they don't read it, it might generate some interesting discussions, where you wouldn't have to name $cientology, but where you could point out some of the characteristics of confrontational therapy, psychoanalysis, or even sci-fi. In short, give them critical-thinking skills that would be undetoured by emotional reactions to mom or dad. They might throw you some pretty tough questions about why people believe in God, etc.; but the better you can communicate with them, the better they will pay attention to your wisdom and hopefully will see The Tech for what it really is, in case they are exposed to it or to other books visible in the enemy's camp. ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 8:13 pm 
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While I was in Scienoland I witnessed many "relationships" where the people concerned hardly ever saw each other!!

Rather contradicts the "2nd Dynamic" don't you think??


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2002 12:44 am 
Hi Everybody, Thanks for responding to my post. DJ, I really commend you for being strong and not being sucked in. Words can't describe how miserable I was, wanting to be with someone I loved yet not wanting to be sucked into Scientology. That was only for a year, and for most of that year I was *miserable*. How can one be happy about a relationship that doesn't really have a future? I couldn't think about children because no way would I want children to be around this. So I just had to tough it out in hopes he would break free.

A book I read was "Recovery From Cults: Help For Victims of Psychological And Spiritual Abuse" editied by Michael D. Langone. I thought it was pretty good. I
did read the Captive Hearts book that Freeborn recommened and thought it was very good, too.

As far as how to help children avoid being enslaved psychologically, one good way might to start by looking at advertising and start a discussion about how the advertisers are trying to influence you. (I had an assignment in 8th grade that had us take a critical look at advertising.) Some methods that advertisers use are fear and promises of a better life. Fear ones are ones that make you think you will be in an embarassing situation unless you buy that product. Like the Shower-to-Shower commercial that had everyone in the elevator trying to stand far away from this woman because she didn't smell fresh. Or, ones for acne medication for teenagers, commercials that imply they won't get the date with the cute guy or girl if that person notices a blemish on their face. But, in reality, would that really happen? Probably not, but teenagers tend to be hypercritical and sensitive about their looks and might think that is a deciding factor for being asked out. Better Life ones are the ones that imply that if you buy this car or drink this soda, you will be popular and hang out with the "cool" people. The haircoloring for men commercial had the guy in a red convertible with a blonde as if he got there because he colored his gray hair. That sort of thing. I think this is a good way to start kids looking at influence methods and understanding that others want to control their behavior. Maybe next talk about variations of control. Like, parents do want to influence their children to have good manners, be honest and thoughtful of others. That is because it is for the good of the child and it makes for harmony in the house. Children should understand the difference between good parenting and trying to make them afraid in order to influence their behavior or telling them that they can't ask questions. I remember my boyfriend telling me that Scientology works, he doesn't have to ask why. He just had to know it was true. The book I mentioned had a good list that compared cults to religions. Some that I remember are that religions let you ask why, cults don't, religions strengthen the family, cults are against families and break them up, religions seek to intergrate all of you (like spiritual, emotional, intellectual), cults seek to split you into a cult identity with a pre-cult past. Also, religions are respectful of other religions and they don't intimidate or harass their critics. I myself am Catholic, and even though we have alot of rules and regulations ( :-) ) I can still question and debate without anyone trying to kick me out. And, it does say in the Bible to test everything and hold onto what is good. So, anyway, I guess we all need to keep informing others of what is going on and hopefully we will make progress. :-)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2002 5:31 am 
Anonymous above, I am also Anonymous until I feel safe to have a proper handle. Yet I can't imagine why I would be Un-safe since neither my partner nor I are involved in scientology in any way.

But: It *was* a challenging situation for us when we met 6 years ago as he had been on staff and decided it was not for him, so was paying off a freeloader bill - therefore at the time of meeting him and getting involved he was not allowed services until he'd paid off the debt. All I knew at the time was what he told me: "I'm interested in scientology, is that okay with you?"

I thought it was a religion so didn't care. I new absolutely nothing about it and, as it wasn't a part of his life at that point (although I didn't know why) I got involved with him and we were fine. Then three years into the relationship he told me he was interested in doing some "auditing" which he defined for me as "counselling."

That was when I got curious and began my internet search and found OC among other critical sites. I'd had a friend who had been in the S.O. and never discussed why she'd left so I also advised her of his intentions and asked her advice. Her shocked and totally negative response (including her awful personal experience in S.O.) to his getting back in touch with scientology was another big alarm bell, so I told my partner about all the negative stuff I'd read as well as what I'd heard from her.

He was open to reading the critical material (especially when I told him he wasn't "allowed" to) and as another poster reported, I did it gently, non-confrontationally, in the hope that he would take it on board. Initially he resisted and tried to take a "balanced approach" - i.e., that sceintologists and non-scientologists could coexist peacefully. That went back and forth between us for a few months (we were otherwise still extremely happy together) until I'd had enough of his prevaricating, printed off huge amounts of critical material off OC and said I really needed him to read it, take it seriously, do it now and get back to me. Which he did.

Even after reading it all he was not totally convinced (naively clinging to the hope that there must be SOMETHING good in it (after having invested as much as he had in it!), so I had to make a really tough call: I'd decided by that point that any continuation of his past involvement in the "church" would be a dealbreaker as far as our relationship was concerned - a really painful decision for me as he was/is a fantastic person and, as I said, we were very happy and well-suited.

I told him this one night and included my feelings about my being an SP making him PTS and that he'd ultimately be told to disconnect from me. That if that was what I had to look forward to then it was better to end things right there. I said this as nicely as I could, stayed rational and loving (Not easy) including the remark that if we were going to be sharing a future both emotinally and financially, I had every right to question and comment on the liklihood of his investing close to $500,000 down the track on scientology. How would he feel, I asked, if I decided to invest that amount over time to something he not only disagreed with but was strenuously opposed to.

He said it sounded like an ultimatim and I said there was nothing I could do to change that perception, but that for me any continuing involvement with the "church" on his part was simply unacceptable. Period. Gave him analogies, etc. etc. That based on a year of reading pro- and anti- websites, the only conclusion I could draw was that we would be forced to disconnect in any case at some point down the road, and that as far as investment went, I was not going to invest any more of my time/love/energy on something that had a "death clause" in it.

Painful, painful week followed while he went through the various stages of making a choice, but we were not hostile with each other, remained close and loving, and he decided that he'd rather be with me than with scientology. He felt we'd been locked in a power struggle, saw that he had been challenging me to a large degree from that basis, and that given all the information, there was every reason to not get re-connected with scientology.

That was 4 years ago, things have remained great between us, and he can now joke and degrade with the best of them. So the best advice I can offer is to stay calm, stay rational (let the steam off with your other friends!) and stay supportive to your partner while they make their decision. I don't know that my way is the best for everyone, but it was right for me: I really did believe I could not live with a scientologist (emotionally, morally, or ethically) nor did I want to. I really Was prepared to end it if he continued, however sad that would have been.

Threatening to "disconnect" from someone before they "disconnect" with you is a risky business if you don't mean it, and keeping the emotional peace is very difficult indeed when you're feeling you're about to lose something precious. I hope this is of some use/help to others facing this issue.

Anonymous4Now


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2002 5:40 am 
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You can type in a "username," below your message, without putting in a password or an e-mail address. The only people who are registered have parentheses on the second line (to the left of their messages). The rest just have a nickname, nothing more. It's just as safe as "Anonymous," and much easier for the readers to deal with.

I love the good news in your story, by the way! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2002 6:58 am 
Thank you Freeborn, and glad you like my good news. I'm trying to think of a nickname as I write.....thought of "Closecall" and then "Not" (liked it for the pun), but am getting close to settling on "Braveheart's Girlfriend." Not feeling terribly creative today, but will prevail eventually.

Reading some of the stories on this board is so disheartening - anything I can add to put a positive spin on it for someone I will. I think it's important for people in relationships with scienos or potential scienos to be reminded that it isn't always a losing battle (as some of the people on this board have proved), and that if one can keep it peaceful one has a better chance of being convincing (I think, anyway). I'm thinking, too, that if you do meet someone who is very much "In," perhaps you should think twice about getting involved.

The friend I mentioned in my last post was born into Scien., in the S.O. for most of her formative years, and though she's been out for 20 years, the scars are Still very painful and evident in all of her relationships with friends & family - it's as if she is petrified of staying "connected" to people and will provoke arguments or push buttons (which I'm sure is unconscious). The result is that she "disconnects" from people on a fairly regular basis on the hunch of a perceived insult. This has happened with me a few times in 10 years I've known her so that we've had the fallouts, after which we bow out of the friendship for a time, then, because I like her and because of her past in scientology, I initiate a "reconnection" with her, which is always successful - until the next time.

With anyone else I would have bowed out permanently, but because I'm aware of her absolutely appalling experiences in the S.O., I give her benefit of the doubt every time. Hopefully one day she will get some counselling re how that experience is still affecting her relationships. Even now she's afraid to look at the damages, and I have to respect that. It's almost incredible that one organization can cause so many people so much grief.

BG


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 3:45 am 
Anon.... I'm really sorry to hear that. It's a shame that the Co$ has him so completely brainwashed. However, I want you to do something- don't give up hope in him. Ya see, cults try to pry people away from the ones they love, friends and family, and make them serve only the cult. With no outside influences they have only one thing which does influence them- the cult.

The relationship may be over but, more than ever, he needs your help and friendship. Keep in contact with him and let him know how you're doing. In fact, if he read that post above you made then.... who knows? I've heard of a few people abandoning the cult, or not joining it, because they read this site. Well... I wish you all the best luck in the world with dealing with this wretched cult and I look forward to the day that you ex leaves it for good and starts living his life to the fullest extent imaginable.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 7:57 pm 
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Interesting to note how the cult can leave a person mentally scarred. I've been out for around 5 years now and although I put a brave face on it I sometimes think that I'm in need of counselling!!

The experiences I encountered virtually drove me to suicide so there's probably some mental stress still in me.

Still, I'm glad I'm actually reading OC rather than being a story in the LMT........... (No sarcasm intended, that story reduces me to tears.)


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