Dating a Scientologist

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WOG3232
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Dating a Scientologist

Post by WOG3232 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:19 am

I've been dating a woman for the past 3.5+ years. Sometime after meeting her I discovered that she has been "involved" in Scientology for at least 15 years. I say "involved" because like most things its a bit complicated (I'll explain). She is not in the "Org", but I believe she's about as close as one can get. I've been doing a ton of research on CoS and its many fronts/divisions the past 12 months. You name it I've read it, so I'm not completely ignorant to the "tech" process, TR's, rundowns, course work, tone scales, OT levels, etc. I realize I'm what is known in their circles as a PTS or SP.

History: Shortly after meeting her she gave me "The Road to Happiness". I know, I know.. that was my first sign. Keep in mind this was over 3.5 years ago when I was just another mindless WoG. After reading the book I pretty much discounted it as another self-help book. If I'm being honest it was mind-numbingly boring and full of the same old drivel I've come to expect from those types of publications. Nothing new in there. As the months went by we got to know each other. We took trips together and enjoyed a very full relationship.

A little over a year ago I visited her office. I saw something on the wall that seemed out of place. It ended up being the infamous "Tone Scale". She brushed it off and we left. Around that time I asked her what her official job title was. She told me she was is a "TITLE?" (it was a weird title - I think it was something like OMP or OPM. I researched it at the time and I remember one of the responsibilities was to "make sure the producers had what they needed") but she refers to herself as the Chief Executive Officer 'CEO" when we are in mixed company. That's when I started to do some serious homework on the CoS. Her company and its owner are listed on the WISE directory and they utilize MGE management tech. It even has the 200 question MasterTech "Personnel Potential Analysis" questionnaire posted on their career site (complete with horrible grammar and misspellings.) I know exactly what that is. The are basically recruiting for the CoS.

It was at that point I started to really dig in and do my homework. All it took was one Google search on "Tone Scale" and I was introduced to a whole new world. I'm a veracious reader and I tore through over a dozen books in as many weeks. I also started researching everything I could online. I really wanted this whole thing to be a bad dream but the more I read the uglier it got. During that time I even read Dianetics! It took me several tries to get through it but in the end I managed to read it cover-to-cover. My personal library has more books than I can count, so when I say it is one of the most outrageous, eclectic PoS I've ever read that is saying something.

My girlfriend and I have had 2 major blow-up arguments. They both centered on us discussing her "involvement" in Scientology and the application of its tech in her job. I only attempted to have a conversation with her about this once I was confident in my ability to sense the subtle queues in her mode of conversation. From my reading I recognized that she was attempting to apply the tech to me during the course of the argument. In the end she backed off and walked away. Neither of us won and we didn't talk about it for a long time. The second argument was a few months ago. It was the typical type of argument that couples have when they are on completely separate pages. We could not reconcile. It got ugly and I left... I mean to say I was leaving for good. A couple hours later she came over to my house, their was crying and we started to talk a bit. I told her that in the 7 hours or so that passed since I left her house I had time to think about some things in a different light. Mainly how her involvement in the CoS bothered me. I had just finished reading "Going Clear" by Lawrence Wright. I asked her if she would read it. I expected her to reject that idea immediately, but she agreed. Its been well over 2 months since I gave her the "Going Clear" book and she has not yet finished it. In fact she never even talked about it after I gave it to her. I continued my ongoing quest to learn as much as I could about the CoS.

Currently we are going through a very rough patch - communication is way down, and we haven't seen much of each other lately. Its almost like we decided to take an unannounced sabbatical from each other.

We never moved in with each other. I live 30 minutes away from her. She has kids and so do I. We are both previously divorced. I feel like I cant win. I've decided that I can't stay in a relationship with someone that continues to support an organization as dangerous, evil, corrupt and self-serving as the CoS. Having said that I can't ask her to leave the CoS without her quitting her job and trying to start over somewhere else. She's surrounded by it all the time, every day for the past 15+ years. I honestly 't think she doesn't realize what she's a part of. She was basically raised in it and I'm afraid she's in too deep to even realize or accept the fact that the CoS is as evil as it is.

One of her kids is exhibiting some typical rebellious behavior. One of the first things she did was to get her into a course. Its her default way of thinking and dealing with the world around her. She has been completely assimilated and I'm not sure how I didn't notice it earlier. Perhaps I did, I just didn't want to admit it. I'm afraid if she did agree to leave she would most likely resent me later for it and that's no way to sustain a healthy, long-term relationship. I'm still in love with the version of her that I knew before I discovered all of this.

Questions:

1.) How concerned should I be for my own personal safety or that of my children? I know she has gone through auditing and takes course (she recently told me she took another one. If she shared anything about me or my kids during those sessions it will be on permanent record somewhere within the archives of the CoS - I have nightmares)

2.) Should I even attempt to provide her with any of the findings from my 12+ months of research? If so how could I do it in a way that won't put her on the defensive?

3.) If I do decide to "disconnect" from her is there anything I should do to protect myself and my family?

In my research I visited this forum many times. I saw a lot of tough love and sage advice being dispensed. I'm at a point where I need some of it myself.

Don Carlo
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by Don Carlo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:42 pm

It is safest to play dumb and just say you've found someone else, or you don't like (insert non-Scientology flaw) about her. Say you're breaking up or getting out, don't use the loaded word "disconnect." You don't owe her a speech about Scientology's evil deeds. If she won't read the Going Clear book, nothing else will work.

Are you going to become a publicly known critic? If then, CoS might send her after you to entrap you somehow. Or, she might tell CoS real or false dirt about you.

If you say goodbye and remain anonymous as an online critic, you probably will be okay.

You should break up with her, since she could get her hooks into your children and alienate them from you.

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spacecootie
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by spacecootie » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:09 am

Frankly, I wondered if this was a troll post. It's hard for me to believe that anyone could date a Scilon for three years without being dragged into the local org and/or bombarded with recruitment efforts.
WOG3232 wrote:Questions:

1.) How concerned should I be for my own personal safety or that of my children? I know she has gone through auditing and takes course (she recently told me she took another one. If she shared anything about me or my kids during those sessions it will be on permanent record somewhere within the archives of the CoS - I have nightmares)

2.) Should I even attempt to provide her with any of the findings from my 12+ months of research? If so how could I do it in a way that won't put her on the defensive?

3.) If I do decide to "disconnect" from her is there anything I should do to protect myself and my family?
I really doubt the Scilons will harass you if you simply end a relationship with a cult member. Their hands are full trying to deal with the many high-profile defectors and critics.

You're in a better position to answer #2. If she works for a WISE business, she's pretty deep in the cult culture, and much of her world revolves around it. If she's taking courses, she will undoubtedly be interrogated with an e-meter to determine if she's connected to an SP.

Do you think your relationship is important enough that she is willing to do things that could get her kicked out of Co$ and fired from her job? There is no future for her at a business permeated by management tech if she starts looking at "entheta."

Edited 12/5/14 to fix
tag.
Last edited by spacecootie on Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Don Carlo
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by Don Carlo » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:40 am

CoS may be so desperate for new people they may risk allowing a member to date a non-member who has made critical remarks. They might lure the man's children into Sea Org.

WOG3232
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by WOG3232 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:01 am

Don - That scares the shit out of me. I know enough to know that these crazies are the type of people that might actually try to do that.

If I do break it off with her should I sit down with my kids and share all of my research? My kids are almost out of high school so they should be able to comprehend some of the complex subject matter. Knowledge is power.

Thoughts?

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I'mglib
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by I'mglib » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:59 am

Hello WOG3232.

Welcome to Clambake!

I am sorry to say I don't think there's much hope for going forward with the relationship. I don't think anything you say will have an impact, as far as criticizing the church. It would be like criticizing Jesus or Mohammed to a Christian or Muslim. Only worse because a Christian or Muslim might debate you. Scientologists don't respond to being told about the abuses or whatever in the church. They're trained to flip it around and to see it completely differently--e.g. that you're attacking her faith.

As far as any retaliation goes, I would say that you don't have anything to worry about. They have much bigger fish to fry right now, such as people writing books, making movies, and taking them to court. Simply breaking up with someone shouldn't get you on the enemy list.

I think you dodged a bullet, but if nothing else it will make an interesting story.
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/

Don Carlo
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by Don Carlo » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:50 pm

You should focus on the child and teen abuse stories for your children, like Jenna Miscavige Hill's book, Beyond Belief. It's hard for anyone to grasp the vast abuse of innocent children, smart adults and vulnerable elderly, and sometimes people think the critic is crazy and obsessed when you tell too much at once.

Unsophisticated people may believe we live in a "just world" like an murder mystery or a blockbuster movie, where the evil are found and punished. They may also believe the government should "know" and "fix" criminality. It's also a deep shock that a "nice person" can be involved in such an evil group without KNOWING about the evil. If they are confused about high-demand groups, try showing the book Releasing the Bonds by Steve Hassan.

WOG3232
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by WOG3232 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:57 pm

Thanks Don. Good advice.

I have an update:

Last night I sent a text asking if she was happy with the was our relationship was going. I thought it was a fair question. I was not however prepared for the response.

Her reply: "No. Also I've been struggling with wanting to tell you that I am going to be doing courses. I know you don't like it but it's what I've always done. And I still want to do it when I want to."

My response text was: "I'm not surprised to hear you've been doing courses. I think you've been hiding it for a while. A healthy relationship needs open, honest communication and we haven't had any of that in a while. You know exactly where I stand on that and why. As part of the process you'll be reporting overts/withholds (if you haven't already) and that will most likely lead to me being identified as a PTS/SP in your life. Please know that I'm not sending this with any anger in my voice. I understand the process and ask that you leave me and my children completely out of the picture. I wish things were different, but I get the feeling you were already prepared for this type of response and perhaps you've already started moving on. You know I hate doing this via text but lately you've been avoiding talking to me so I really don't have a choice. My heart is completely broken. I honestly hope you find what you're looking for. I'm not going to try to change your mind."

Her response text: "I think you're overreacting. Meaning about Overts and withholds. It's just Course. I have been honest with you. I did stop doing courses when we had that last conversation. But I don't think that that's fair to me. And I think it's not that big of a deal. You're looking at all the bad stuff. You should try to look at the good stuff..."

NOTES: She has not been honest with me. She's been leading a dual life. Also, in my research I did look at the CoS objectively. I seriously wanted to find something good in it because my girlfriend (whom I loved) was in it. I wanted to understand something that she was so passionate about. My research ultimately lead me to discover that the CoS (and all of its associated fronts/division) is a corrupt, self-serving, evil, brain-washing organization.

I realize not all of you would agree with my course of action. I thought my responses were appropriate. Remember also that I've been with her for 3.5 years. Hopefully this helps you understand to what level she is involved in the CoS.

QUESTION: Never having actually been in it I'm not sure exactly what she means by "It's just Course". Perhaps someone can tell me what that involves.

Don Carlo
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by Don Carlo » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:15 am

She's pretending what she's doing is like taking a communication course at a local community college. This is absurd, since community colleges don't become insatiably demanding of your money, your family, your volunteer time and maybe slave labor for you and your children.

WOG3232
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by WOG3232 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:31 am

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I'll continue to update this thread as this drama unfolds. I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that I need to move on. Perhaps (eventually) this will help someone else in a similar situation.

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Demented Source
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by Demented Source » Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:15 pm

I think there is a way of getting people out of the Church of Scientology, it worked for my friends -- I gave them Corridon't book, L. Ron Hubbard:Messiah or Madman? They both are no longer Scientologists. It depends on how long one has been in a cult. My two friends had a relatively short exposure to Scientology which lasted for about a year.
"Xenu is on me. He has been inside me for 75 Million years. Xenu and I are one".
L. Ron Hubbard, Excalibur, pg. 69

""Voy a copular con mi amante, Xenu, en frente del mundo. Que buena idea!"
L. Ron Hubbard, Saentologia 666

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heyjupiter
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by heyjupiter » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:15 pm

I haven't been on Clambake for a while but read this with interest because I can relate to it through my own experience. I dated a scientologist for 7 years. I knew nothing about scientology when I met him, other than that Tom Cruise was one and it was something to do with Aliens- daft but harmless. What an awakening I had.

He was and still is a public scientologist- not on staff. I found out he was one when he left me outside his local Org one day- he went to hand in an envelope full of cash. He left me outside for an hour- which in itself was odd. I was less than pleased and asked him why he was in there so he told me he was a scientologist and was instantly defensive, telling me not to listen to anyone who said it was a cult. That was a red rag to a bull to me so of course I started to do research. I went to a few events with him, met a few scientologists, saw the vast amounts of materials crammed into his house. I entered into a relationship that has been the most damaging of my life. There is too much to relate- I have posted a great deal on here in the past as I joined this forum whilst still involved with him.

I witnessed over those seven years a bizarre level of obsession with getting me to accept scientology.I in the meantime was researching more and more and this placed me in a surreal position- everything I read or watched or listened to had to be done secretly- I learnt quickly that criticism was met with rage and shunning. He was emotionally abusive, controlling and lied to me the whole way through our relationship - the entire time we were together his one aim was to get me to join. I didn't at first have any idea that the relationship was being monitored by Church of Scientology but it became increasingly clear that this was the case. Scientology is the ''Third Party'' in every relationship where someone is a member- that is a harsh fact- it is designed that way. The loyalty of my ex was never to me and everything we ever said or did together was subject to scientology scrutiny- whether from his own controlled mind, from direct contact from Org members who attempted to recruit me to sign up, or because he was revealing all the details of our personal lives through auditing. Because you cannot openly criticise scientology to a member, you are also forced to become deceptive as you look into what is making them behave the way they do and find out the truth about this dreadful organisation. This means that the mutual trust necessary for a happy relationship is eroded- and that is exactly what scientology is designed to do. Knowledge reports on fellow members are a clear example of that- and they DO exist- my ex partner received them for daring to spend his money on doing normal things like going out to dinner with me.

The bitter end came for us when he told me I had to write a letter to his Org to explain why I wanted no contact from them- I had to explain myself to them like a criminal. He said it would help our relationship- it ended it. THey worked on him after that to disconnect from me if I couldn't be handled. Wr have been apart for over a year now. No-one that knew us outside scientology could believe we broke up- they knew how loving I was to him , kow much I did for him over those 7 years. None of it counted for anything.

It is a horrible feeling to know you have been lied to by someone you were so intimate with for so long. Of course I didn't know most of it until the relationship was nearly over - everything then though fitted into place- a huge curtain was drawn back revealing the sham our relationship had been. I now feel I was with a stranger all that time- I feel my privacy has been violated and every aspect of our relationship was tainted. It damaged me beyond measure and I don't think I will ever trust anyone with my heart again. I am glad I researched and found out the truth. The evidence I found, weighed alongside 7 years of personal experience affirmed completely for me the truly criminal and destructive nature of this revolting organisation. You can only stay in a relationship with a scientologist by becoming one and accepting that you are then of little importance to that person other than as a felow slave to the organisation. If you try to stay together and just stay non-critical and accepting without joining- knowing the truth about scientology- you become a traitor to yourself. I chose to stay true to myself and am glad that I am free to think and speak openly once more.

I have tried many times since we parted to get him to see the truth but I was just met with scientology quotes about 'hidden crimes' and I am now considered a Suppressive Person. That is a very good example of the hypocritical mindset you have to have as a scientologist. He ran every indicator of an SP on me while we were together and asserted I wasn't one. Once I started to speak out- speak the truth- he had to change his mind. So- he has to live with that weird mindset and keep lying to himself. I am glad I can be honest with myself and others -it is a much better way to live.

Don Carlo
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by Don Carlo » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:04 am

Best wishes on getting past this bad experience. You were right to speak up for yourself. Some people may never leave CoS despite scandals, bankruptcy, and exploitation.

mestentheta
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by mestentheta » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:08 am

WOG3232 wrote:I've been dating a woman for the past 3.5+ years. Sometime after meeting her I discovered that she has been "involved" in Scientology for at least 15 years. I say "involved" because like most things its a bit complicated (I'll explain). She is not in the "Org", but I believe she's about as close as one can get. I've been doing a ton of research on CoS and its many fronts/divisions the past 12 months. You name it I've read it, so I'm not completely ignorant to the "tech" process, TR's, rundowns, course work, tone scales, OT levels, etc. I realize I'm what is known in their circles as a PTS or SP.
So your relationship with her was fine until you realised she was a scientologist, then it all went wrong when you did some research and decided that scientology was evil.
Prior to your reaction, there was no problem. Is that correct?
The problem is with you matey, not her. This is the reason why you would be considered a suppressive person, because you're no longer permitting her her right to be who she wants to be.
From what you've written, neither her nor scientology has done anything wrong to you, but your paranoia has destroyed the relationship.

Don Carlo
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Re: Dating a Scientologist

Post by Don Carlo » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:34 am

Wog3232 only posted four times and then left, so your words likely won't reach him.
Before my family was ripped apart by disconnection, Scientologist relatives tried to recruit non-Scientologist young relatives. Wog3232, a man with children, needs to think about these things.

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