A Call for Reformation of the Church of SCN

programmer_guy · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:10 am Post subject:

Terril,

The info on your link says, "Yes Ron knew that eventually Scientology would have to be reformed."

This is really part of the problem... you hail Hubbard as someone who was a great person. This is false. He was the very person who started this mess to begin with.

_________________
codo ergo sum.

mtilse · Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Posts: 120

21. The so called "church of scientology" shall at it's own expense publish a complete unexpurgated account of hubbards life, including sworn testimony of his physical and mental state in the years before and at his death. Every part of his life shall be examined in detail with exact time place form and event and supporting independently verified documents and sworn testimony from people who knew and worked with him. And in so doing, it shall note in this account every fabrication and lie that hubbard told about himself or the church has told about him with regard to his education, military record, travels, accomplishments, writings or any other area of his life in which hubbard or his followers has claimed or declared anything.

22. The so-called "church of scientology" shall publish a comprehensive list of all "PR" and "guardian's office and "office of special affairs" actions, intelligence gathering and legal and illegal actions and projects it or hubbard or their agents committed over the years, what exactly was done by who with exact time place form and event to create "acceptances" or "PR" coups or to "handle situations", including full documentation.
The "church" MUST reveal ALL its lies and overts.

23. The "church" and all its organizations and affiliated "associations" must publish at it's own expense with full documentation it's entire financial history, including all the monies EVER gathered, regged, donated or legally or illegally aquired, giving detailed precisely accurate information as to where the money was gotten and when. the financial history will be complete with where EVERY PENNY of the money has been spent, given to hubbard, laundered, wasted, stashed in accounts, used to hire lawyers, private eyes, criminals or whoever. FULL and COMPLETE DISCLOSURE regardless if it implicates hubbard, the "church" its members, its management or anyone in crimes or mismanagement or frauds upon the courts and its own members.

24. Full and complete immediate and cheerful financial restitution IN FULL WITH INTEREST LUMP SUM to ANYONE who asks for it. This includes any ex-scientologist asking for refund of their "donations" and restitution to ANYONE who hubbard the "church" its agents or associates have attacked or harmed or caused to be attacked, sued, harmed. It has to make amends and pay back the money to anyone who ever donated money or gave them funds. All that money was obtained under circumstances of FRAUD. It has to be given back.

Well, that is just a start for me. There is lots more that should be demanded.

olska · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:05 pm Post subject:

Ha! Looks like you guys are trying to put scientology ethics in on scientology! Wink

it shall note in this account every fabrication and lie that hubbard told about himself or the church has told about him

Some of us on staff used to joke that there was an ethics condition below confusion and the formula for it was find out who your father really was. Looks like you're having the CoS start there.

Carry on! Smile

programmer_guy · Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:11 pm Post subject:

Barky,

16. The Church shall restructure itself into a standard framework and shall not use shadow organizations and special practices to hide a true accounting of its finances from its members.

Would you please rephrase "restructure itself into a standard framework" so that it makes more sense. IOW, I don't know what a "Standard Framework" is.
Are you refering to laws concerning corporations?

_________________
codo ergo sum.

programmer_guy · Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject:

Olska,

"Looks like you guys are trying to put scientology ethics in on scientology!"

No. I would like to see WOG ethics "put in" on Scientology.

_________________
codo ergo sum.

programmer_guy · Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject:

Tory,

(My rewording of what you said.)

17. The Church of Scientology shall not discourage or disparage anyone from seeking medical treatment, by any "board" certified doctor, for any disease recognized by our societies' certified medical practitioners.

(Message edited by Programmer_guy on April 02, 2005)
_________________
codo ergo sum.

programmer_guy · Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:29 pm Post subject:

HM,

19. The Church of Scientology will cease.

This is not in the spirit of what I intended.

_________________
codo ergo sum.

programmer_guy · Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject:

Alan,

20. The Church of Scientology shall not employ any person under 18 years of age.

_________________
codo ergo sum.

programmer_guy · Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:40 pm Post subject:

Tory's #18 I have to replan as it is similar to other points.

Michael's points #21-24 are good BUT I want to re-state those in terms of WOG law because those can get nasty concerning legal "rights".

_________________
codo ergo sum.

tammy · Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 1256

Hey Programmer Guy! Here is another post I wrote a while back and dragged over here. I don't plan to make a habit of it, I guess I just have a little backlog to handle, since it took me so long to register. I wanted so much to come out and talk to you guys!
I think your list looks great, once you are reasonably happy with it I hope you will let us be your editors and proofreaders, there is no such thing as too much help before you publish. Thanks again for staying up with me all that night, my family and friends think I should just try to forget it all, but that wouldn't be me. You really helped me decide to just jump in. Thanks!

Prior to the Reformation begun in Germany in 1517 by Martin Luther, the
Bible was in Latin and available only to a few Priests and wealthy,
educated individuals. In 1520, the Bible was made available to the public
for the first time in German by Martin Luther. In 1526 it was published in
English by William Tyndale, who was later put to death for his belief that
the "secret scriptures" should be available to all, not just the
"authorities". Sound familiar?

programmer_guy · Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:35 am Post subject:

If you are refering to upper level OT stuff then I understand. If you are not refering to this then I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

(BTW, I know about Tyndale. His translation was the major basis of later translations - like the translation sponsored by King James, 1st publication in 1611.)

_________________
codo ergo sum.

programmer_guy · Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:41 am Post subject:

An historical quiz:

When Gutenberg built his 1st printing press what was the first book that he printed?

Some info:
http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blJohannesGutenberg.htm

_________________
codo ergo sum.

programmer_guy · Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:02 am Post subject:

The 1611 translation came about because King James did not like the anti-aristocracy margin notes in the Geneva Bible. Up to that time, the Geneva Bible was the most popular among Protestants.

The Roman Catholics used Jerome's Latin translation at that time - not understood by most English speakers who did not know Latin.

The Eastern Orthodox (much like Catholics but don't answer to the Pope) still used the (Greek) Septuagint.

_________________
codo ergo sum.

tammy · Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 1256

Is this the same Programmer Guy? Who talked to me about the Reformation on the Guest book a couple weeks ago? I just took a quick look in my dictionaries and didn't find the original Tyndale, but I will look up the whole story and report back to you. I remember he had something to do with the Gutenberg Press and a major flap in the church because prior to his making the bible available to all, it was a big moneymaker for the church to sell absolutions as only priests and royalty had access to the "secret scriptures" and the public believed if they paid money their sins would be absolved. I studied alot about religions when I first got out of scn, including Catholisism and Luther. I don't remember enough details to debate you right now, but isn't this you?....

Programmer Guy
Senior Member
Username: Programmer_guy

Post Number: 4655
Registered: 2-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 1:23 am:

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I started this in the spirit of Martin Luther.
(That should be obvious.)

programmer_guy · Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:07 am Post subject:

The "King James" 1611 translation was done by Reformed scholars who had their meetings in Westminster Abby, London.

_________________
codo ergo sum.