Was L. Ron Hubbard Sexually Molested as a Child?

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Peter Schilte
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Postby Peter Schilte » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:50 pm

I second that.
"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM."
- L. Ron Hubbard

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prevail
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Postby prevail » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:57 pm

quaoar wrote:My personal thanks for "both" of you for the production. I am amazed; I bow before your talent(s). Yes, you are a writer!


And, as they would say on Monty Python; "You're a loony!"

quaoar wrote:Let us know when your next work will be available. I will be your first customer.


Do they allow books in the booby hatch? You know... paper cuts and all...

Sheesh.
S toboi ostatsa dol'she

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Os Wilkes
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Re: Was L. Ron Hubbard Sexually Molested as a Child?

Postby Os Wilkes » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:43 pm

J. Swift wrote:ref: http://www.scientology.org/en_US/l-ron-hubbard/meet/index.html

At the official Scientology website, LRH's latest bio is offered. We are told:

At the end of 1923, young Ron travelled to Washington, D.C. via the Panama Canal, meeting Commander Joseph C. Thompson of the U.S. Navy Medical Corps. Commander Thompson was the first officer sent by the U.S. Navy to study under Sigmund Freud, and took it upon himself to pass on the essentials of Freudian theory to his young friend. “Through his friendship,� Ron noted, “I attended many lectures given at naval hospitals and generally became conversant with psychoanalysis as it had been exported from Austria by Freud.�

Scientology tells us that a US Naval Officer took L. Ron Hubbard to lectures on Freudian psychotherapy in 1923 when Ron was only twelve years old. Freudian psychotherapy deals heavily with human sexuality and sexual repression. Why was an adult male taking a twelve year old boy to lectures that dealt with human sexuality and Freud's graphic descriptions of sexual repression and sexual acts? This would today be viewed as a singularly unhealthy and unnatural relationship between a man and a boy. It suggests that Commander Thompson could have been a pedophile who was grooming young L. Ron Hubbard for sexual molestation. If Hubbard was sexually molested by Commander Thompson it might explain Hubbard's adult behavior. As one author says:

Many untreated survivors of severe childhood abuse appear to spend considerable time and energy balancing trauma-related distress and intrusion with avoidance mechanisms such as dissociation, externalization, or substance abuse

Was Dianetics and Scientology, in some way, LRH's attempt to heal himself of having been molested? Dianetics and Scientology are all about "energy flows" or, "energy balancing of trauma-related distress and intrusion." LRH did exhibit, "avoidance mechanisms such as dissociation, externalization, or substance abuse." Scientology is all about dissociating from "wog" reality so perhaps Ron needed to create an alternate reality where he was all powerful and could never be abused again. Hubbard also externalized all of his threats: The FBI, aliens, English Bankers, etc. -- Ron may have well externalized all of his pain into SP's. And what if Fair Game is an expression of Ron's need to destroy people he had unconsciously externalized so that they reprsented the man who molested him?

Could a phenomena Ron called "snapping terminals" have caused Ron to dress as a US Navy Commander in his later adult life because he was molested by a US Navy Commander?

Is this a possibility?

*****

This is all very disturbing. L. Ron Hubbard wanted people to believe that he had become, "conversant with psychoanalysis as it had been exported from Austria by Freud� at age twelve through his "friendship" with an adult male authority figure. But maybe there was more to this? Was Ron covering up for his abuser as many children do when threatened with violence by their abuser?

Let me ask you this if you are a parent: Would you allow your twelve year old son to attend lectures about human sexuality that discussed explicit repressed sexual content with an adult male?

What are we to make of this matter? On the one hand, Scientology is out to destroy psychiatry, and yet as others have pointed out, L. Ron Hubbard clings tenaciously to Sigmund Freud - the greatest psychiatrist of all time -- in order to establish his authority as an expert in the human mind. On the other hand, the way in which Hubbard establishes his expertise in Freudian psychoanalysis is either very disturbing or it is a lie. Did L. Ron Hubbard learn about psychosis tragically and firsthand as a victim of Commander Thompson?

****

Is this section of Hubbard's biography just another lie in the endless series of lies told by L. Ron Hubbard? Are we to believe that a twelve year old boy in 1923 could grasp Freudian psychoanalysis? Are we to accept that an adult male exposed the twelve year old L. Ron Hubbard to the sexually-laden content of Freud innocently?

This whole story is suspicious and disturbing on so many levels and yet Scientology presents it all as if it were remarkable. What is remarkable is how disturbing this episode is if it is true.

.


Dear J. Swift,

I just wanted to revive this because I am totally with you on this. I want you to know that THIS HAPPENS. Joseph C. Thompson was a SPYCHIATRIST. Young people from Naval families SOMETIMES get USED UNWITTINGLY in espionage. They HYPNOTIZE THEM, they TORTURE THEM to get them into a controllable amnesia, the DRUG THEM, they SEXUALIZE THEM to get them to bond to the "handler", and then when they are programmed properly-

they DEPLOY THEM.

They muddle the issue with a bunch of OCCULT HOGWASH to keep the UBOAT (aka "Manchurian Candidate") entranced as much as possible and from figuring out what has happened to him. "Paranormal or psychic effects" serve to explain any flashbacks or other artifacts of hypnosis.

Please read the "Greenbaum Speech" by D.C.Hammond. There is a good copy here showing his credentials:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/greenbaum.htm

^^^THIS is what I think happened to L. Ron.^^^


How do I know that L. Ron could have been used this way?

It happened to MY DAD, the son of a Rear Admiral, and it happened to ME. My father was conversant with me about his spookery in as much as he could tell me and I was involved with him in executing it. We were in the same area as L. Ron and Jack Parsons et al, my Dad at the same time and both of us onwards, running into the same sector of spychiatrists and "cultists" who handled the new generation of zombies a little more effectively than they handled the last. Poor sad Sirhan Sirhan had the misfortune to run into this group and see where he ended up. It is said he was programmed while in hospital after a horseback accident, the same hospital my own Daddy visited only to come back as someone else. Some people like my Dad are "talent" or "bloodline" and therefore not exploited to death. He got very rich.

But not a one of the people used like this could EVER pass for sane upon close inspection. L. Ron Hubbard is no exception, the writing is all over his wall. He never knew what hit him, poor old sod. He was working for OSS and maybe ONI and never knew it. What a tragic waste of potential.

http://www.answers.com/topic/oss-united ... c-services

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The Warfare State was set free, following November 22, 1963, to show its ugly face. The war in Asia began to escalate, with no noticeable provocations, only three weeks after the murder of President Kennedy. (7) John Foster Dulles was U.S. Secretary of State from 1953-1959. Before and following these years heading the State Department, this public servant wielded tremendous power and influence with the military and industrial monopolies of power and wealth in the world. He was the architect of "containing Communism."(8) Mr. Dulles confided, "President Eisenhower surrendered all his power to me." In 1956 he said, "Don't bother about what the President said. I write what he says.'(9) The State Department was "in my hat." You did not have to rely on the department or its bureaucracy. (10)

His brother, Allen Dulles, headed our spy agency formerly known as the OSS. As long as John Foster Dulles was Secretary of State, Allen Dulles had no need to "chafe under political control." Both brothers "placed supreme confidence in their personal judgments." They were completely trusted and were able to act at will and " shielded from any unpleasant consequences." (11) Adolph Hitler declared war in 1941. By 1942 Allen Dulles was moved to Switzerland for the purpose of rounding up and importing to the United States, German "specialists." Two years before the war ended, or its fate was decided, the United States was making arrangements for Nazi scientists, arms experts to come to our democracy (for which the boys were fighting and dying at that moment). (12)

From 1945 until 1952 the U.S. military brought over 642 alien "specialists" and their families from nazi Germany. They were known collectively by the code name "paperclip." German missile and rocket experts, munition makers, war experts were carefully selected and located into aerospace programs, war industries, armament factories, defense and warfare manufacturing.(13)

Violent anti-communist fears by the military and munition makers justified the exchange for a once democratic nation into the fascist state we have today. Members of the nazi party now hold key positions in our universities, factories, aircraft and aerospace programs.(14) When the nazi empire collapsed in 1945, ex-nazi General Reinhard Gehlen joined forces with our OSS. Gehlen was placed in charge of wartime intelligence for Foreign Armies East. "It was not long before Gehlen was back in business, this time for the United States. Gehlen named his price and terms."'(15) A series of meetings was arranged at the Pentagon with nazi Gehlen, Allen Dulles, J. Edgar Hoover and others.(16) The Gehlen organization combined forces and agents with the OSS, which was soon to become known as the CIA. Experts in clandestine and illegal control of Germany through political assassinations and reversal of judicial processes became the new teachers for Allen Dulles and Richard Helms. They helped form the new CIA in 1947, based upon clandestine activities in nazi Germany.(17)

Espionage networks were supposedly to spy out secrets of other nations. Instead they have secretly engaged in clandestine political actions, stirred revolts, overthrown governments and attempted to bring about political change.


http://www.ctrl.org/essay2/NCTJFKA.html

This would be a good place for Hubbard's Mushroom to jump in and post comments by L. Ron that support he was into doing such things as destabilizing countries. I do recall reading L. Ron on the subject.

Next link is a nice overview of OSS operations in L. Ron's day, showing how they create and disseminate memes:

http://www.psywarrior.com/PSYOPOrgWW2.html

And what is L. Ron doing? Creating and disseminating memes.

I am FURIOUS FURIOUS FURIOUS at the exploitation of youth!!

Anyhow, it's very interesting to note that while Hubbard vilifies psychiatry, his mentor was a well known Naval Psychiatrist, and documented SPOOK. Small wonder that L. Ron would be involved in SPOOKCRAFT.

William Sims Bainbridge, Noted Sociologist wrote:Snake Thompson was the best friend of my great uncle, Con (Consuelo Seoane). Together, around 1911, they spent nearly two years as American spies inside the Japanese Empire, charting possible invasion routes and counting all the Japanese fortifications and naval guns. It was an official but top secret joint Army-Navy spy expedition, with Con representing the Army, and Snake, the Navy. They pretended to be South African naturalists studying Japanese reptiles and amphibians, and Con was constantly worried that Snake had a camera hidden in his creel, which would get them shot if the Japanese checked too closely. Thompson habitually wore a green scarf fastened with a gold pin in the shape of a snake.


His other mentor, Aleister Crowley was also reportedly similarly employed. He loved his handler, but hated Jolly West, one of the most mentioned key figures in the "conspiracy theory" that our Government is creating "Manchurian Candidate" hypno-programmed zombies for fun and profit. No doubt he had contact with West, possibly others like Ewen Cameron, Frank Ervin, and others. He could well have been accessed and programmed while in the hospital during his service.

This is another thing that irks me about Scientology- it is a front for mind control operations which is creating a bunch of extremely obedient and fanatic soldiers, some of whom will NEVER REMEMBER WHAT THEY MAY HAVE DONE "IN SERVICE".

Here are a couple of L. Ron quotes concerning Thompson. Note that he refers to Thompson as a father figure. Out of context use of the word "Father" is commonly reported by mind controlled subjects as a cue word for absolute obedience to the "handler". Mother is similarly employed as a trigger to obedience. For what it's worth:

L. Ron Hubbard wrote:In the twenties I was fortunate enough to know Commander Thompson of the Medical Corps of the United States Navy. He was a colorful man; he was very poised, was very traveled; he was curious in half a hundred sciences. And the United States Navy, having heard of the work of Freud, naturally, took ahold of Thompson and they sent him over to Vienna, and they had him soak up anything that Freud had to say and study very thoroughly under Freud himself.

Commander Thompson came back to apply that information to the United States Navy. I was just a kid and Commander Thompson didn't have any boy of his own, and he and I just got along fine.

Why he took it into his head to start beating Freud into my head, I don't know. But he did. And I wanted very much to follow out this work - wanted very much to. I didn't get a chance. My father, a naval officer - a very fine officer but a very, very dogmatic officer about his own opinions - said, "Son, you're going to be an engineer." So I talked right back to him and I said, "Yes, Father," and went and took engineering.

Well, the engineering course which I embraced, taken at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. — Washington, D.C. had a lot to offer, and one of the things the university had to offer was something that I suppose no one will ever see the like of again: It was the first course, as far as I know, of atomic and molecular physics. We called it at that time atomic molecular phenomena, and today they call it nuclear physics. And by the way, there are very few nuclear physicists who have ever studied nuclear physics. Most of them study just basic physics.

We had a lot of fun; we were trying to measure light and so on. It was all new; it was a brand new world of Alice in Wonderland. Anything went, and amongst the things that went was the fact that I wanted to find out what is the smallest particle of energy in the physical universe? What is it? Now, is it ultraviolet light particles or what is it? The smallest particle of light, and where would I look for it?

Well, I looked for what I considered to be the smallest container of the “mostest,” which is the human mind. Obviously the human mind had to have an awfully small order of energy in order to operate at all. Well, as a matter of fact, I had considerable encouragement to go ahead and research this. Nobody was against a boy researching this sort of thing in those days.

It was my idea that the brain was something like a very good electronic computing machine that ran on some kind of energy. That was an interesting study, and I found various things startling and unknown about the mind.

Here, all of a sudden, we had an engineer and he was looking at the mind, and he was not looking at the mind through anybody else’s glasses; he was just looking at energy and phenomena.

One of the projects would amuse you very much: it was how to write poetry which invariably makes the mind respond — how to write poetry which invariably gets response — by the use of sounds; a study of the effect of sound on the mind itself, so that you can write nonsense poetry which will make the person sit down and cry. It is what sound does to the mind. Interesting studies. They, of course, led to nothing very much. But I found out, for instance, the brain operated on 2.4 watts. And I found the rate of nerve impulses flow, the possible kind of energy that flows along nerves. Very interesting stuff.

And then one day I found out that no physical-universe energy known to man could be responsible for the operation of a human mind — just like that. It was impossible. There was no order of energy that small. And I looked at it and looked at it and scratched my head and tried to figure. And then I figured out, if this memory that we get was stored in punched protein molecules — oh, just lots of memory stored in one molecule, maybe a thousand memories stored in a molecule . . . There are ten to the twenty-first power binary digits of neurons in the human brain. That is an awful lot of them. And there are an awful lot of molecules in the human brain. I sat down and figured out how much a person observed for how long in order to answer up this problem;

I found out a man had enough memory to last him three months.

Every three months we inevitably must get amnesia.


We can’t possibly remember earlier than three months if the mind runs on energy as we know it, because there is no place to store it. It was interesting to me that one of the boys out at Ma Bell (you know, the big Bell Laboratories) — we know quite a few of those boys and we have a lot of fun sitting around shooting the breeze about what might be and what might not be — had just repeated this same experiment. He didn’t know I had done it already. And he found out that, obviously, if the mind runs on energy, the human brain does not function any longer than three months. In other words, you couldn’t possibly remember who you married or if you were married, if you were married more than three months ago. It is as ridiculous as that.

Well, puppy to the root, I thought, “Oh my, this is wonderful. This is wonderful. Now I’ll go to the man who knows.”

Well, there was Dr. William Alanson White, a very fine man. He was head of the big St. Elizabeth’s, the big mental institution there in Washington, D.C., and he had been a friend of mine for quite a while. I had met him through other friends of Dr. Thompson’s. And I went over there and very proudly I said, “Now, look what I’ve done.”

He took a look at it and — “It doesn’t run on energy, huh?” I hadn’t realized it, but he hadn’t ever considered that it even ran on energy. He had just never looked at it from this viewpoint, that it was a machine, that it was an electronic computer, that it was any of these things. And he was very, very nice about the whole thing and he told me the sky is the limit, and he said, “If you carry out these researches, if you’ve got nerve enough to do it, then one of these fine days,” he said, “you’ll certainly, undoubtedly wind up with something. Bad or good, you’ll certainly come up with an answer.” After that he used to see me every once in a while, and he would smile at me and we would have a talk about the subject. We were in different worlds as far as that was concerned, because he was a Jungian and he believed in the soul and basic instincts.

—L. Ron Hubbard
Lecture: Dianetics: The Modern Miracle 02-06-1952


My own Dad beat Freud into my head, trying to convince me that all my urges were sexual, and that I wanted to kill him to fuck my mother. He made me read tract after tract of Freud in the same manner Scientologists are caused to do Misunderstood Words and Training Routines. He also beat the Old Testament into my head, in much the same way as "Alice in Wonderland" is used in Scientology. I read L. Ron's own testimonial as one big long veiled description of having been MANIPULATED by a GROUP of SPYCHIATRISTS starting when he was a youth, and the resultant misplaced loyalty and bonding to these psychiatrists in the face of his general vilification of same is SOOOOOOO telling.


L. Ron Hubbard wrote:I travelled with Commander Thompson from Seattle, Washington through the Panama Canal to Washington, D. C. when I was about twelve and knew him during all that time that I was in Washington and later. Commander Thompson was the first man to study with Sigmund Freud from the U. S. Government and had just returned from his studies, bringing psychoanalysis back to the United States Navy. He was a tall, rangy, eccentric individual. His friends called him "Snake" and his enemies called him "Crazy". He had lots of both. He lived a life to very much please himself in spite of being a Naval officer and would read until he fell asleep, falling sideways over onto his bunk and get up and go about his duties when it pleased him, regardless of Navy schedules. Through his friendship I attended many lectures given at Naval hospitals and generally became conversant with psychoanalysis as it had been exported from Austria by Freud. All the various schools which sprung up later, such as Horney, seem a far cry from Freud's original work and it has seemed to me that there are no psychoanalysts who practice Freudian Psychoanalysis. Commander Thompson wrote innumerable monographs on all manner of observations in various parts of the world which he had visited, and all of them dealing with ethnology. He was a very fine man and I was very fortunate to have known him.


http://www.solitarytrees.net/cowen/misc/auto2.htm

I really would like to hear what people think about this. It is my true belief, based on my own experience.


Love,

Os
Latest stuph:

The latest fave video- a blast from the past:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxOmrS6uqVM

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Postby J. Swift » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:17 pm

Os, this data you have posted blows me away. Your contribution here adds a tremendous dimension to my thesis that L. Ron Hubbard was sexually molested as a child. Thank you for posting this extremely potent material.

I got my ass kicked for, among other things, daring to suggest that L. Ron Hubbard had been sexually molested as a child. Yet, I built my case from the very source materials of Hubbard and Scientology. A critic can't do better than using LRH's and Scientology's own sources to make a case.

I stand by my thesis. Others have added to and expanded my thesis and I appreciate what has now become a group effort. Os, what you have said here, well, it is massive to confront. However, it all makes sense of many things in Hubbard's life, particularly his military career and his life during 1945 - 1950. I have always posited the theory that LRH was given an OSS "plug and play mind control system" in 1947-1948 following occult initiations conducted by his OSS handler Jack Parsons. I have also posited my TRTS thesis (Two Ron's/Two Scientology's) as the only way to explain Hubbard and Scientology. Os, you may found the Rosetta Stone of Scientology for which I have been searching for many, many years.

****

I had a high-ranking Scientologist who was on the Apollo with Ron agree with me. This person agreed with my thesis that L. Ron Hubbard was sexually molested and damaged as a child, and that it showed in Ron's behavior as an adult. This person said that, in their opinion, many of the top people in Scientology were severely damaged as children.

.....
Last edited by J. Swift on Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby J. Swift » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:27 pm

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex

HCO BULLETIN OF 26 AUGUST 1982
Remimeo

PAIN AND SEX

(Note: This HCOB probably won't increase my popularity but I would
be very remiss if I did not pass on an important discovery.)

There are two items in this universe that cause more trouble than many others combined.

One is PAIN.

The other is SEX.

One should know more about these things.

They may have applications but they are used by destructive beings in great volume to cave others in.

Despite the false data of Freud, psychologists, psychiatrists and other criminals, they are not native to a being. They are only artificial wavelengths. They have exact frequencies that can be manufactured. A being or a machine can synthesize either one.

Pain becomes a lock on a being's abhorrence for misalignment of his own electrical flows. It is a lock upon unconsciousness which shuts off knowingness.

Sex is a lock on and perversion of the "joy of creation" which involves a whole being and expands him, but by using just one wavelength, sex, this can be perverted and he contracts.

When pain enters a scene, a being withdraws, contracts and can go unconscious.

When sex enters the scene, a being fixates and loses power.

Destructive creatures who do not want people big or reaching -- since they are terrified of punishment due to their crimes -- invented pain and sex to shrink people and cut their alertness, knowingness, power and reach.

Thus, you see people who are "experiencing" either pain or sex introverting and not producing much.

Pain and sex were the INVENTED tools of degradation.

Believe it or not, a being can be so overwhelmed by either that he or she becomes an addict of it. Priests become flagellants and cut themselves to pieces with self-whipping. Torturers drool over pain. Lovers are very seldom happy. People do the most irrational things when overcharged with sex, and prostitutes use it as a knowing stock-in-trade. Combined, pain and sex make up the insane Jack-the-Rippers (who killed only prostitutes) and the whole strange body of sex-murder freaks, including Hinckley*, and the devotees of late-night horror movies. Under the false data of the psychs (who have been on the track a long time and are the sole cause of decline in this universe) both pain and sex are gaining ground in this society and, coupled with robbery which is a hooded companion of both, may very soon make the land a true jungle of crime.

Go into an asylum or a prison and look at the increasing institutional population and know what you are looking at. In the main, these are pain and sex addicts, decadent and degraded and no longer capable. They were sent on that route down through the ages by the psychs and here they are still in the psychs' hands! And do they get well or go straight? Oh no. Whether in prisons or insane asylums they just get worse. And the psychs in both places rub their bloodied hands as they turn their products loose again upon the remaining population! It's no accident. And the stocks-in-trade of psychs are PAIN and SEX. They will even tell you it's "natural" to steal!

To compound their felony -- if that is possible -- they tell you it's the body doing it. Another crashing big false datum on top of all their other lies.

These are data which emerged from recent thorough research of the whole track. This is not theory or some strange opinion. It is provable electronic fact. The waves are just synthesized.

They are the most-used tools in the campaign against beings in furthering the general goal of those creatures whose sole ambition is destruction. The universe does not happen to be either destructive or chaotic except as such obsessed creeps make it. Statements it is otherwise are just more false data from the same suspect "authorities." It fits their purposes to make seem natural what they make artificially. The universe only seems that way to a being because such loathsome psychotics make it seem so. They destroyed every great civilization to date and are hard at work on this one. The one thing they can't stand is the light of truth, so despite their objections, one must turn it on them. Only in its glare do their lies wither. It is the potent weapon they can't fend off.

These facts may not be very palatable. But they could clear up some mysteries for you.

For wherever there is a mystery (and both pain and sex have been these for man) there are answers. As both pain and sex could have messed up your life, the above may be some answers you've been looking for.


L. RON HUBBARD
Founder

*Hinckley: John Hinckley, an American who, after receiving psychiatric treatment, attempted to assassinate US president Ronald Reagan in 1981.


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Postby Morsicle » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:36 pm

I’m not at your guys level on this. But I have noticed that if one thing is a hallmark of Blubbtoad’s work from beginning to end, from A to Xenu, from Dianetics to OTVIII has been that the key goal is always “Get it out of me!!”

$cientologists are taught to think:

1) They got engrams implanted in their head that shouldn’t be there
2) They got Body Thetans inplanted in them that shouldn't be there
3) They got unpure things in them that need a Purif Rundown to remove
4) And even in the very universe in which they live, conspirators have “planted evil seeds” that shouldn’t be in there

With $cientology at all levels, the person is told that they have something akin to “evil seeding” deeply and maliciously implanted that needs to be removed.

And thus by conning thousands of people into $cientology, L. Ron has tried to compensate for his being molesting by tricking people into auditing his case.

And all this misery because straight-forward treatment was not obtained for a poor pathetic little boy who suffered egregious childhood. trauma.
"What a lot of people don't realize is that Scientology is black magic that is just spread out over a long time period."

-L. Ron Hubbard Jr.

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Postby Vled » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:05 pm

I'm glad that this thread got resurrected, I enjoyed reading it the first time and will do so again to refresh my memory at some point...

Just wanted to add a few things however.

Firstly, it is very debatable that Aleister Crowley was ever a member of any national spy network. Although he may have wished that he was, the evidence that we have in regards to it cannot by any means be classified as primary...therefore we must be highly suspicious of secondary commentary only. I know that it is easy to say that since he was a spy it would be harder to get primary evidence, but from the extent to which I know the life of Crowley I personally do not believe that he was ever a member of any intelligence organisation other than the one in his own fantasy image that he wanted to project.

I am also not willing to take at face value the idea that the Navy regularly tortures, drugs, rapes, and brainwashes young individuals to serve their country. I know that there are plenty of conspiracy buffs out there who go for theories like this, but to me they are not supported by anything substantial other than what some people say.

Forgive me if I misunderstand what you had said there Os Wilkes - but are you saying that you were treated in this way? There is a big difference between having a fundamentalist Christian background and having Freud forced on you (I feel very sorry for you for that!) and the kinds of activities that you referred to involving government programs...

I am very interested in this idea of Hubbard, but I don't believe it to be beneficial to go down the route of conspiracy and government brainwashing torture/rape programs...maybe that's just me though.

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Postby Os Wilkes » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:54 am

J. Swift wrote:
Combined, pain and sex make up the insane Jack-the-Rippers (who killed only prostitutes) and the whole strange body of sex-murder freaks, including Hinckley*

<snip>

*Hinckley: John Hinckley, an American who, after receiving psychiatric treatment, attempted to assassinate US president Ronald Reagan in 1981.


////


My friend Smitty has done some research on the Hinckley case. Of course, as a conspiracy buff, I had already done some math regarding the Bush Family Dynasty and the WW2 Nazi regime. I don't have much to give right now or I would certainly give a detailed response to Vled, an "abortion theory" to Morsicle and a genuine gung-ho heads up to this post if I had the OOOMPH. Limp as I am, I could not resist the urge to pass on this little tidbit before I pass out for the night:

Smitty wrote:George W. Bush's brother Neil was supposed to have dinner with Scott Hinckley, the brother of John W. Hinckley, on the same day that John W. shot President Reagan. The Hinckley Family were longtime supporters of the Bush Family's political campaigns.


I can't help but think of the movie "the Manchurian Candidate" when thinking of poor Hinckley. Very significantly L. Ron brings him up in the above tract. It is very interesting to me that L. Ron seemingly randomly inserts these connections into his tracts and lectures. It is as if he is trying to put together a puzzle from his own subconscious- rectifying some unacknowledged cognitive dissonance.

(An aside about the movie "the Manchurian Candidate". You know, that movie was removed from circulation in the US and other countries for decades concurrent with the assassination of JFK. Did you also know that another Sinatra movie about Presidential assassination ("SUDDENLY") was also removed from circulation when it was said that Lee Harvey Oswald viewed it a few days before JFK was shot?)



Love,

Os
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Postby Vled » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:16 pm

In regards to the Manchurian Candidate being pulled, this is a widespread myth that even a cursory examination of the facts proves to be false.

The movie flopped on its initial release in 1962 - take note that it was released over a year before JFK was assassinated, if you can tell me of a film that had a wide release for over a year without making any money I would like to know. Because it didn't do well in its initial run this is the reason it was not pushed for re-release very much. Added to this however, arthouse and independent cinemas were running the movie throughout the 1960s and it was even shown twice on network television in the 1970s. Suddenly, was also not withdrawn. Here's a quote from someone who did research into the film and the myth surrounding it:

. In reality the film was pulled because of a financial tiff between Sinatra's company and United Artists, and was withdrawn simply so it wouldn't drain the profits from other better-received Sinatra pix like the terrible Sergeants Three. In any case, Sinatra was already associated with another film about an attempt on the life of a president, Suddenly. It wasn't withdrawn, even though it later lapsed into the Public Domain. And Sinatra made yet another sniper-assassin picture four years later with The Naked Runner.


The reason it took so long to get a wide-spread re-release in the 1980s was because of legal issues surrounding the rights for the movie.

Like almost every conspiracy theory, there are usually far more simple explanations for the reality of the situation. I'm not saying that there is no truth at all to conspiracies about the government (i.e. MKULTRA), but they are usually overblown.

The problem is that conspiracy theorists really like to quote each other as evidence (I do realise that this is essentially what I have done above, the difference being the sources that the information is taken from more closely fit acceptable standards of research and academic integrity). What this means is that it is rare for people to go through primary sources when putting together their arguments - far easier to just quote another book on the same topic, which quoted another conspiracy book before that etc. It ends up being one large circle of self-referential 'evidence' that doesn't actually point to any evidence in reality other than supposition and a couple of individual's large jumps in argumentative logic.

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Postby Antique Hoax » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:38 pm

I very much appreciate your time and input Vled.

You are another poster I will admit to taking a shine to.

...of course I need Os to push it to the limit!

He goes where I believe no man has gone before...that is a compliment I think, ...not just an over-statement.

I very much appreciate Os' time and input also.

L o v e,
Charles

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Postby Os Wilkes » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:04 pm

Dear Vled,

I know I am an incredible source. Sigh. So when I say something which is true, people are going to read the spin that I am a "woo-woo conspiracy theorist who believes in psychic abilities and reincarnation" and disregard it. That is the price I pay for wearing my heart on my sleeve, so to speak.

Anyhoo... it is widely believed that the movie Manchurian Candidate was banned. So my statement that it was banned can demonstrate support, even if not from your source.

To whom is the following quote attributed?

. In reality the film was pulled because of a financial tiff between Sinatra's company and United Artists, and was withdrawn simply so it wouldn't drain the profits from other better-received Sinatra pix like the terrible Sergeants Three. In any case, Sinatra was already associated with another film about an attempt on the life of a president, Suddenly. It wasn't withdrawn, even though it later lapsed into the Public Domain. And Sinatra made yet another sniper-assassin picture four years later with The Naked Runner.


Anyhoo... thanks in advance, I'd love to read something from someone who researched that particular movie because my buds and I all had a really bizarre run-around when we tried to get info on it.

A bunch of us "Kolchak" types were trying like mad to see it in the early 80s, and we could find no source. We had all read the John Marks book and we wanted to see the frickin' movie from whence it's name was generated. It became a cause celebré.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/marks.htm

We did the phone thing and the studio, agency and distribution sources told us it had been removed from circulation with no plans of re-release. That's all. No reason, even when pressed. They did not say it was out of circulation due to jumping the shark, or to give Sinatra's other movies a wide berth. We did our due diligence at the time, and this was what we got.

If you called Disney or other studios and distribution companies, for example, they would tell you why something was not circulated. We also did this with Snow White. (Now, there's IS a conspiracy regarding Snow White and that is the exploitative handling of the Italian artist performing the title role. :roll: I hate Disney as much as Scientology- maybe more.) Anyhow, Disney told us that Snow White was out of circulation because it was slow, and that they were going use the scarcity of it to build some hype. They planned to re-release it in '83, hoping to catch a wave of nostalgia. They even provided an estimated re-release date. None of this happened when we checked out the Manchurian Candidate. It was indeed SPOOKY... why would crappy Sinatra movies be in circulation but not a great one? Read the reviews on Imdb. It is a BRILLIANT well directed movie.

Both the Manchurian Candidate and Suddenly were certainly banned in Finland and may remain so today- at least is says so on Imdb. My recollection is that it was taken off the Finland ban in 1989 or thereabouts. Anyhoo... I remember the re-release of the 60's version the Manchurian Candidate. It was TOUTED as being RE RELEASED after having been BANNED. So, not only were we given to understand it was under ban, we were being told that the ban had been lifted when it was re-released.

An alternate story that circulated is that Sinatra himself, out of deference to the family of the Kennedys, had it shelved after the assassination. We heard both those stories. I am certain if I look, I can find materials on that all over the place. Certainly, that was what we were all given to understand, but it could have been hype. But why hawk it like that to a handful of conspiracy theorists? I do remember EVERYBODY who was ANYBODY in "Conspiracy Theories" (all ten of them) were trying to see that movie, and the studio, agency and distribution folks probably got a lot of calls about the "ban". So, rumours of banning could be some kind of advertising hype. But it was generally accepted as true by anybody interested in that movie. Nobody I knew believed the "Frank Sinatra worried about Jackie and the kids" spin, but we did believe his people were distributing that story.

Here is what Imdb says about the "ban":

The topic of the movie was considered politically so highly sensitive it was censored and prohibited just before its theatrical release in many of the former 'Iron Curtain' countries, such as Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria - and even in neutral countries such as Finland and Sweden. The theatrical premiere for most of those countries was held after the collapse of Soviet Union in 1993.
<snip>
Contrary to popular belief, the film was not pulled from circulation following the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The film made its American television debut on The CBS Thursday Night Movies in September 1965 (source: Broadcasting magazine), and was repeated on that network later that season before turning up for third and fourth network showings on NBC in spring 1974 (source: TV Guide) and summer 1975 (source: Variety). Only when the rights reverted to Frank Sinatra later that decade did the film disappear from view. Frank Sinatra's neglect in keeping the film in distribution gave rise to the legend that it was suppressed because of its alleged role in Lee Harvey Oswald's assassination of the 35th president. The legend was further perpetuated when Frank Sinatra, in alliance with MGM/UA, re-released the film to theaters in 1988. When the rumor was debunked in an article in Films In Review, another myth, one claiming that Frank Sinatra and UA had a dispute about the profits, took its place. The myth survives to this day, but it is pure fiction.


This kinda debunks the debunker you quoted, but hey... ask any Conspiracy Theorist worth his salt and they will tell you that one thing "THEY" with a capital "T" (aka "The Powers That Be") like to do is distribute multiple stories- the truth is anybody's guess...

Now, as to it being an unpopular dog, look at this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056218/awards

LOOK AT ALL THOSE AWARDS!!! Certainly Oscar nominations and Golden Globes Awards create interest. Frank Sinatra was INCREDIBLY POPULAR in the 60's. How could any Sinatra movie tank? While it is credible that any movie can tank, it is incredible that a movie so well received by the industry would be pulled for decades while any grainy braindead B "film noir" or even Plan 9 From Outer Space could be viewed.


Love,

Os
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Postby Os Wilkes » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:45 pm

Antique Hoax wrote:I very much appreciate your time and input Vled.

You are another poster I will admit to taking a shine to.

...of course I need Os to push it to the limit!

He goes where I believe no man has gone before...that is a compliment I think, ...not just an over-statement.

I very much appreciate Os' time and input also.

L o v e,
Charles


Thank you Charles. I wish I could do more on the complex subjects, but I spend a lot of time in an addled condition. I hope anything I write is helpful. When I write it, I sincerely believe it is helpful to somebody or I wouldn't bother. This is genuinely my true motivation.

BTW- on this thread I posted a personal thing about my own history. THIS is WHY I do not talk to strangers on the phone, especially people involved in any way with any cult or mind control operation. If you only knew the horrible experiences I had with "researchers" "advocates" and "helpers" who turned out to be wolves in sheep's clothing.

There was a time in the 80s where I ran into an operation to find and restimulate people who were processed like me. They set themselves up like C.A.N. after the Scientology takeover, to lure people they had already processed in for more processing and for character assassination.

One group specialized in drugging people surreptitiously prior to video interviews, and then holding the video over the head of the targeted subject, distributing these videos whenever the target pointed a finger at the perps. Also, they hypnotized people into believing bizarre things, interviewed them, and threw that back in their faces. I knew one of these guys who hypnotized women into doing "scat" pornos in addition to the other dead agenting activities. He would chortle in his joy showing these things.

I myself was suckered into a DOCUMENTARY made by PBS. It was produced by the daughter of a famous director who was blacklisted during the McCarthy era. Because of the credibility of the project, I allowed myself to be interviewed. It was the worst dead agenting hackjob I have ever seen, thoroughly discrediting all the participants by featuring incredible shams and charlatains along with the credible.

In my case, I gave two hours of testimonial with sheaths of paper attributions. I was showing that alien abductions were created through hypnoprogramming, and I had verification that such projects had been done on unwitting civilians which could explain the symptoms of alien abduction completely. I also discussed my field investigations backing this up. They cut my segment down to a witty soundbyte, showed a clear frontal and profile view, and LOUDLY announced my REAL NAME, LOCATION and STOMPING GROUNDS. The relevant testimony was all left on the cutting room floor, as my face and whereabouts was advertized in conjunction with the most bizarre sideshow participants they could muster.

SO MUCH FOR CREDIBILITY.

You should see how the perps who talked me into stepping into this trap were featured on documentaries produced by The History Channel, The Learning Channel and The Discovery Channel. One of them was the "scat" porn producer and both he and his "partner" were practicing satanists.

I worried for Tory because she posted that she was being interviewed by BBC, another credible producer which might have had ulterior motives. I thought about posting a warning to her. I bit my tongue because not everybody on earth trips over evil in their random travels like I do. I have some idealistic hope that the world other people live in is somehow better than the one that gets shoved down my throat.

So, whenever I see something nasty, I do try to warn folks. God forbid anybody should go where I have gone.


Love,

Os
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Postby Os Wilkes » Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:25 pm

Morsicle wrote:I’m not at your guys level on this. But I have noticed that if one thing is a hallmark of Blubbtoad’s work from beginning to end, from A to Xenu, from Dianetics to OTVIII has been that the key goal is always “Get it out of me!!”

$cientologists are taught to think:

1) They got engrams implanted in their head that shouldn’t be there
2) They got Body Thetans inplanted in them that shouldn't be there
3) They got unpure things in them that need a Purif Rundown to remove
4) And even in the very universe in which they live, conspirators have “planted evil seeds” that shouldn’t be in there


With $cientology at all levels, the person is told that they have something akin to “evil seeding” deeply and maliciously implanted that needs to be removed.

And thus by conning thousands of people into $cientology, L. Ron has tried to compensate for his being molesting by tricking people into auditing his case.

And all this misery because straight-forward treatment was not obtained for a poor pathetic little boy who suffered egregious childhood. trauma.


Dear Morsicle,

Think of what you just wrote along with the idea that L. Ron Hubbard was fixated on abortion. Something implanted inside that must be removed.

"the person is told that they have something akin to “evil seeding” deeply and maliciously implanted that needs to be removed."

A zygote resulting from a rape perhaps?

I get mad at Scientology, but I can only grieve for L. Ron whose mother clearly did not love or want him, and who probably tried to retroactively abort him psychologically.

“Get it out of me!!”

Well, that might also be something evil THOMPSON put in there... something fishy happened with that man/boy relationship. I remember my "first time", and I couldn't stress the "get it out of there" part enough. Scientology's attitude towards homosexuality is a good indicator that where there is smoke there is fire. Look at what happened with that beautiful soul Quintin, L. Ron's homosexual son. Quintin was EXPRESSING the REPRESSED UNDERCURRENT of HIS FATHER'S PSYCHOPATHOLOGY. And he retroactively aborted himself, or L. Ron arranged it, one or t'other.

So I really grok where you are going with this concept. It applies across the board in reference to the violations L. Ron may have endured himself.

I know I will be harangued by the "bullshit police" for saying this, but it is true and on a deep level WE ALL KNOW IT. Communication happens on many levels. L. Ron just wanted to be HEARD and some of us are hearing the deepest expressions of his soul. He wanted his PAIN validated. It was a huge pain, and required a huge sacrifice.

Unfortunately, the sacrifice was not his Mother. He was too afraid of She Who Must Be Obeyed. So, he became her. And sacrificed thousands of little L. Rons in the form of all the Scientologists who were induced to be clones or extentions of himself. Let's not even go to his treatment of women, what with his documented bigamy, satanic soul cracking, rape fantasies, setting his wife up for felony charges, Lisa McPherson, on and on.

What is the Scientology term for acting your case out on others? In psychology, it is called "projection".

L. Ron displays the symptoms of believing he was an "abortion" (unwanted, unloved, violated almost to death). In Dianetics, he went on and on about how many women attempt abortions, creating abberated children. Which women? Which children? His Mother and HIMSELF. He also is fixated on amnesia, claiming that people experience amnesia every three months. Which people? HIM. He thinks people are being driven by externally inserted beings. Which people? HIM. He represses or has amnesia and is under the control of others.

What does Scientology offer?

A fantasy way out of the condition of being under control by external forces while actually controlling people and micromanaging their entire lives. Scientology PUTS engrams and BTs IN while claiming to be benign and enlightening (bend over, kid... this is for your own good... Freud said all little boys want this).

Whew, I hope I made sense. I really think you hit a nail on the head with what you notice regarding implants, and it is so very descriptive of a picture I have in my mind of what happened to L. Ron. The rape of his mind or body by Thompson et al, the rape of his tiny self by a mother who wished he had never been, and the resultant defense of offense that he institutionalized, both in his behaviour and in his created religion.

This is a TRAGEDY for all involved, and one of the saddest things I have ever seen. When you think that all children are born perfect, and have infinite potential, and then you see how badly twisted they can get.

Please Scientologists, focus on your children and make sure they don't feel unwanted. Give them the best start in life you can design. That means BEING THERE FOR THEM!!! L. Ron is DEAD. No matter how many bodies were thrown onto the pyre of his need, it was never enough to fill it because his own parents were the only ones who could do that. They sold him to Xenu. Please please please don't do the same.


Love,

Os
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Postby Vled » Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:54 pm

Thankyou for the more detailed reply - I certainly do see that you took some lengths to get some primary information. I have to say that I cannot now find where I took that quote from - I'm an idiot for not putting in the link to begin with, it was the result of a long search through google and I can't find it again...But you certainly did provide enough stuff to show the situation better than I did anyway. I don't want this to get too off topic, so I shall concede here in the face of one who has done more research into this :D

I am still however not convinced that the US government was/is involved in the systematic torture, rape, and brainwashing of young people...But I respect your research and efforts and do not wish to undermine your work as I have not done enough searching on this topic myself. My opinions are based on the research I have done no the phenomena of 'Satanic Panics' which are almost entirely consistent thematically. In that area there have been thousands upon thousands of alleged satanic ritual abuse victims - practically none of which were able to actually provide solid evidence for their accusations. This does not mean that there aren't sick people out there who do sick things, but the idea that these abuses were so organised and prevalent is what was a fallacy. This takes on a personal note as I was a member of an organisation that was quite recently accused of such practices - suffice to say the accusations were swiftly discounted in court, but the initial response of us all upon hearing that we were apparently involved in satanic ritual abuse was a big WTF?!

What the 'Satanic Panic' era showed was that people are highly susceptible to the creation of false memories. Such people are then used by the media and scare-mongerers to see monsters around every corner. See 'Michelle Remembers' for one of the more famous cases. I am not saying that anything that you say has occurred to you or those you know Os Wilkes is a result of such created memories - but I would certainly not rule out the possibility of such in other cases. You don't have to be hypnotised to have these memories be created either, although it helps. This of course ties everything back into Scientology nice and neatly now with such regressive techniques :)

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Postby Vled » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:12 pm

I think in regards to this theory however it is important to remember that it is just that - a theory. We will unfortunately NEVER be able to know either way, although it makes for a very interesting viewpoint from which to look at Scientology teachings...


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