Children in the CofS, Sea Org

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
User avatar
KMomma
Posts: 732
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:19 pm

Children in the CofS, Sea Org

Post by KMomma » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:24 pm

Hi, DC, I've been meaning to respond to your post, it was in Oh for the love of God topic. I thought it was interesting enough to start a new topic though, and not necessarily direct it towards you, but the whole board to feel free to comment on.


Don Carlo wrote:
Due to the forced abortions in Sea Org starting about 17 years ago, Sea Org lacks children to exploit. A CoS member who reads an accusation about exploited children, yet has never seen exploited children, will conclude at least this critic is blatantly lying. This could alienate the about-to-escape or newly-escaped CoS members and staff, and they might even go back into CoS rather than deal with such liars. So know your history, and read freshly escaped ex-CoS members to know the current situation. THEN post, with precision.
As far as I know, and everything that I have read that is current, the SO currently still recruits and "employs" adolescent children. Which, considering it is the Sea Org, that is exploitation of a child just by joining. The Sea Org is basically a slave labor camp, that a grown person should not be subjected to, let alone a child. If current military laws does not let a person under the age of 17 join the military, I don't see how 14 year olds are allowed to join the SO, regardless of parental consent. It is another facet of the CofS that needs to be brought to the proper authorities attention.

Outside of the SO, public CofS members children are also regularly exploited and mentally abused. Some of the Scientologists I know, pulled their children out of perfectly fine public schools and put them in Scn schools for no reason, other than they were told by CofS officials that the public schools teachers were "invalidating" their children. Two things are going on here:

1) It is just another way for the CofS to use their Front Groups to make money. It is NOT about the welfare of the child at all.

2) The parents are being brainwashed into thinking what is best for the child in Scn ways, to further the CofS agenda, rather than what would really help the family.

To expand on point number 2, what before had seemed normal in the childs life is suddenly being turned upside down. All of a sudden, they are switching schools, taking these course at the CofS, and when these courses don't work out for the child, the course supervisors are convincing the parents it is another reason and the child then has to take another course. Which goes back to point number 1, it is all about the $$ for the CofS. No real caring about the family at all.

Not to mention the childs state of mind throughout all this. Especially in the highly charged teenage years.

Imagine a child who doesn't do well on a course, then all of a sudden the CofS finds out a CHILD has counter intentions on Scn and that is the reason that the entire family is having problems, according to the CofS. Can you imagine what that kid had to go through? And what effect it will/is having? And that really did happen to a family I know.

Just wanted to point out that there still *is* exploitation in the CofS, and always will be, IMO. Please feel free to add or correct me if you feel I'm in error.

User avatar
shelby
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:52 pm

Post by shelby » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:33 pm

Ok, I just had a thought. Since this is considered a "school" or "private school", what exactly does the department of education (both state and federal) have to say about the cirriculum? There are some mandates, criteria, and curriculum that must be follwed, despite the fact that they could be considered a "private school". Furthermore, are they receiving any department of education funding? If what you say is accurate, there could be considerable consequences here. JMO and something to throw out there. Of course, I too could be wrong.

ETA: As for the SO, I don't think there are any maritime laws about child labor. :?:

The Anabaptist Jacques
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:42 am

Post by The Anabaptist Jacques » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:31 pm

Hi,

Education is one area which the government authorities and especially the media has overlooked with regards to the Church. There are no teachers in Scientology schools. I don't mean just Sea Org schools, I mean the private Applied Scholastics Schools. The kids generally are very uneducated. The wealthier Scientologist can afford private tutors, so some do okay. But for staff members and poorer Scientologist the Scientology schools are producing an underclass of under-educated and uneducated kids. These kids will have a struggle in life do to their lack of education.
If the media ever questioned these kids they will be shocked at the lack of knowledge these kids have. It is a shame because most have natural intelligence.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Don Carlo
Posts: 11796
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Post by Don Carlo » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:34 pm

Very interesting, KMomma. What we need are eyewitnesses that can go to the State of California or the State of Florida and say, My name is ___ and I saw the org in ___ City at ____ Street employ ___ number of people that I know are under 18, and they are still there.

The eyewitness should provide as much detail as possible, like the names of the teens, the names of the CoS people that hired them, the work they do, housing, any adult "boyfriends," etc. Photographs would be great. CoS may claim the children are volunteers, but if the children have made over a threshold amount (like $200 a year), they are legally employees.

Even better would be for a child to come forward himself. I caution against trying to lure a child out of Sea Org to escape or to complain. Tthe child could later be coached by CoS to accuse you of abuse or kidnapping. If a child wants to escape, get an official like a social worker, undercover policeman, or city official to talk to the child about leaving.

User avatar
KMomma
Posts: 732
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:19 pm

Post by KMomma » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:09 pm

DC, great advice! I just want to clear up though, I don't personally know of children in the SO. I got my info from Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org and some of the personal stories in the other forum. Serenity Now comes to mine, and I believe she is still young, so it couldn't be that long ago.

Shelby, I wish it was that simple. I am not sure if it has been in the past an intentional blind eye towards what is going on or not. I've written several letters to some authorities about a school in my area and have not had one response back yet.

Anabaptist Jacques, exactly!! Those poor kids, man.

User avatar
shelby
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:52 pm

Post by shelby » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:28 am

Unfortunately, the departments of education are extremely understaffed and don't go out looking for things. I've had the same experiences here and I could tell you horror stories about some of the things I have seen. However, there is an ombudsmen, in some states, that may be more helpful. Also, how about contacting children's protective services? If children are being used for forced labor and are not being given a proper education, then children's services may be interested to have this information.

I'll say this here....I do have some contacts of my own....various government contacts.....I'm not afraid to use them to get us in touch with proper authorities. However, I too wish to remain anonymous and I'd prefer to do everything through PM. So, if anyone wants to at least give me a state they are in, maybe I can help out. I'll look into Florida.....I have some good contacts down there. :twisted: And post it here if I can get any information.

User avatar
Ladybird
Posts: 5630
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:22 pm

Post by Ladybird » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:58 am

Threads like this give me hope, and depress the hell out of me at the same time.

We MUST keep trying!!! But please don't be so naive to think it hasn't been tried before. Many people have tried, in nd out side of the cult. Google scientology child abuse, scientology schools, sea Org kids, etc...ask me something specific, like "What about the Scientology schools"? and then I can give you a list and then you can google or write your state board for info on accreditation. There is so much info already on line, please look:

The following is a list of schools that appear to be related to
the Church of Scientology, which have advertised in one or more
of the following publiciations:

The Communication Line (701 Cleveland St, Clearwater, FL 33755)
The National Communicator (same as above)
Word of Mouth Directory of Honest & Reliable Businesses (same as above)
Needs And Wants Newspaper (119 N Wetherly Drive #7, Los Angeles CA 90048)
Who? What? Where? Directory (PO Box 1510, Glendale CA 91209)

Alexia, you might especially want to investigate the three
rural "Ranch Schools" that are in the list below: California Ranch,
Mace-Kingsley, and Mojave.

A to Be School
814 Franklin St, Clearwater, FL 33756 (813) 446-1722

Ability Plus School - preschool and K-12th grade
6624 Lockhurst Drive, West Hills CA 91307 (818) 992-5267

Ability Plus Orange County
pre-school through 8th grade
220 El Camine Real, Tustin CA 92780 (714) 731-9006

Academy For Smart Kids - Connie Case & Vecki Farrara-Marshall
address not given (213) 666-7668

Advanced Education Academy - Diane Key
"Are you amazed at how poorly your child spells?
Is your child's handwriting poor?
Does your child hate math?
Are you afraid that your child is falling behind or will not graduate?
We handle completely all areas of education." K-12th grade
8727 Fenwick, Sunland CA 91040 (818) 353-4473

Bradberry Institute - Lorie Bradberry, Jean Thompson K-12th grade
11120 Oro Vita Avenue, Sunland CA 91040
(818) 353-5304 (818) 353-9440 (818) 951-0728

California Ranch School - John McCormick
"on a horse ranch nestled in the hills overlooking the city of Riverside.
Room and board can be arranged for out-of-town students."
17305 Santa Rosa Mine Rd, Perris CA 92570
(800) THE-RANCH or (909) 943-1658

Canyon View Academy - Wendy Booth
"19 acre campus, in town, safe space"
(address not given) Sunland/Tujunga Area (813) 353-5777

Carroll-Rees Academy
4474 De Longpre Avenue (Near Fountain & Vermont)
Los Angeles, CA 90027 (213) 663-9050

Chicagoland Achievement Academy - Kathy Marier Pre-K through 9th grade
1040 Thacker Street, Des Plaines, IL 60016 (847) 699-2777
"Utilizing the Heron Curriculum as used in the Delphi Schools"

Clearwater Academy
814 Franklin St, Clearwater FL 33756 (813) 446-1722
(hmm, same address & phone as A to Be School)

Delphian School
20950 SW Rock Creek Rd, Sheridan, Oregon 97378
(800) 626-6610 or (503) 843-3521

Delphi Academy of Florida
(also seems to be called "TRUE School")
1831 Drew Street, Clearwater FL (813) 447-6385

Delphi Academy of Los Angeles - Maggie Reinhart, Head of School
4490 Cornishon Avenue, La Canada, CA (818) 952-0909

Jane Warner's School
Preschool (ages 18 months & up) and K-8th Grade
(address not given) Pasadena/Altadena, CA
(818) 797-0758 (818) 798-5379

Jefferson Academy
Newborn through 12th grade
1301 North Highland Ave, Clearwater, FL 33755 (813) 446-5730

Kids' World School - Paula Gonzalez
2442 Hyperion Avenue, Los Angeles CA 90027

Learning Academy - April Huff, Educator K-12
510 N Buena Vista Street, Burbank, CA 91505 (818) 841-7040

Lewis Carroll Academy - Kathy Welch, Principal
"Academic Excellence, Literacy & The Arts" K-8th Grade
5345 Wilhelmina Ave, Woodland Hills, CA 91367 (818) 888-3222

Life Improvement Through Education (LITE) High School
701 Cleveland St, Clearwater FL 33755

Mace-Kingsley Ranch School - Sherry Faust, Ranch Director
"Is your teenager's life out of control?
*Rebellion *Bad grades *Waste
*Drinking or Drugs *Stealing *Non-Production
On our 18,000 acre ranch in the New Mexico wilderness
we apply the correct technology to salvage your child's life."
PO Box 428, Reserve, NM 87830 (505) 533-6857

Mojave Academy
"located in a spacious valley, far from the city. It specializes
in the high dynamic child." A year-round boarding school, ages 7-17.
44579 Temescal Street, Newberry Springs CA 92365
(800) 576-3866 or (760) 257-3866

Pinewood Academy - Doug & Rose Hogg
4490 Cornishon, La Canada, CA 91011 (213) 664-4700 or (818) 952-1900
also at same address:
"Hogg's Hollow is a preschool where L. Ron Hubbard's philosophy
is fully applied. For ages 2-5" (818) 790-1700

Renaissance Academy - Ivy Kimmich, Executive Director
Kindergarten through High School
4490 Cornishon, La Canada, CA 91011 (818) 952-3055

The Tutoring School - Debbie Swanson, Director
3130 Foothill Boulevard, La Crescenta, CA 91214 (818) 541-9526

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Read this farce:

[quote]Scientology/scientologists v. Times Publishing Company
District Court of Appeal of Florida - Sept. 1992

http://www.xenu.net/archive/CourtFiles/occf67.html

On September 20, 1991, seven deputies of the Pinellas County Sheriff's
Office Youth Services Education Division were invited to the Scientology
Cadet School to give a puppet show. Upon arrival they noted conditions
indicating that the elementary school children were being neglected or
abused.

Later an H.R.S. (Health and Rehabilitative Services) "inspection of school
premises had uncovered no basis to believe the children were being abused
or neglected" (small wonder) and the Sheriff of Pinellas County, Florida,
was not allowed to accommodate the public records request of the SP Times.

More on this is here http://www.shipbrook.com/jeff/CoS/flag-rpt.html

Civil Case #91-18290-CI was fascinating. I'm really interested in seeing
what's in the sealed portion of its files. Judging from the unsealed
parts, they contain one or more reports from the HRS (Health and
Rehabilitative Services) concerning child abuse and/or neglect at the
Scientology Cadet School. There was an HRS inspection in October 1991,
based on information from the observations of seven Deputy Sheriffs who
had been at the school earlier to perform a puppet show.

(One of the Scientology lawyers pointed out to the judge that these shows
were normally performed by only two Deputies, rather than the seven who
were there that day. While two of them performed the show, the other five
apparently had a look around, and what they saw was deemed by the HRS to
be sufficient cause for an inspection.)

At least two reports were produced from the HRS inspection, and on 16
October 1991, Scientology lawyers from the firm of Johnson and Johnson
moved that the documents be sealed because, among other things, they
contained the names of minor children. Prior to their motion, however, the
Sheriff's Department had shown those reports to at least one newspaper.

(So far, the details of the HRS reports are still unknown to me.)

=====

Mike Gormez
--
Scientology & Dianetics
Tax-exempt child abuse and neglect?
www.taxexemptchildabuse.net

User avatar
shelby
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:52 pm

Post by shelby » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:37 am

Ladybird, you're right.....I, of all people, should know that things may have been tried before....but I'm one to pick it up where it was left off....I have OCD and that should explain everything. LOL! Aside from that, I really don't like to see kids being abused, used and neglected. I am a survivor of child abuse. I know what it can do...and frankly, this makes me sick. I won't give up....I will try....maybe they didn't talk to the right people....who knows. Besides, April is Child Abuse Awareness Month. Let me see if I can find out ANYTHING and we can start from there.

I kind of look at everything you guys are doing here this way. I may be new. I came here by fluke....simply researching Scientology. I became stunned and then, I became angry. I didn't join this site to just sit back and watch y'all fight it on your own. I joined this site because maybe, in some small insignificant way, I can make a difference. I'm not afraid to fight and I'm certainly not afraid to help.

I'll do what I can....if I run into a road block, I'll be honest about it....but that doesn't mean I'll give up. It may take a while, but I'm willing to try.

I swear, I'll do what I can.

Oh, ETA: The number of schools they have is just frightening....and the stories....well, I'm just really upset all over again.

Thelma
Posts: 693
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:19 am

Post by Thelma » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:56 pm

The number of schools they have is just frightening....and the stories....well, I'm just really upset all over again.
I agree!

I don't think people (general public kind of people) have any idea how far the tentacles of CoS reach. I'm sure to tell them, every chance I get.

Interesting, at an office birthday party the other day (gov't office) Scientology came up and the room exploded into multiple conversations. Folks had varying degrees of understanding of what CoS is about. I was happy to fill them in on some of the more interesting (horrifying) stories. One thing everyone agreed on, it's a cult and should be abolished.

Can't wait to hear how things pan out for you, shelby :D

User avatar
CP
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:33 am

Post by CP » Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:08 am

I've known lots of people who have joined the Sea Org before graduating high school. Many later left (with a good freeloader debt I might add). Those old enough (15+) are pushed to take some sort of quick highschool equivalency test (like a G.E.D.). The whole situation really sucks. If you believe Scientology works, how do you argue with someone when they tell you the Sea Org is the best way to clear the planet? Those recruiters are PUSHY and you have to play nice or you end up in Ethics. They enjoy recruiting children behind the parents backs and then springing their decision.

User avatar
lulu_belle
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 12:51 pm

Re: Children in the CofS, Sea Org

Post by lulu_belle » Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:42 pm

KMomma wrote:As far as I know, and everything that I have read that is current, the SO currently still recruits and "employs" adolescent children. Which, considering it is the Sea Org, that is exploitation of a child just by joining.
They absolutely do. I don't know if the pendulum has swung the other way by now, and they are now looking for older, more experienced people, but the last I knew they preferred these young kids. No drug history, no "out 2D history." They were considered "clean" (as opposed to the old "dirty" ones). Automatically HCO qual'd and int qual'd.

I suspect Miscavige also liked the younger ones because they hadn't been around long enough to realize that he was rewriting tech and policy to suit his needs. To these kids, Miscavige pretty much is LRH, since LRH was dead before most of these kids were even born. Which is, I'm sure, exactly what he wants.

There probably aren't a whole lot of children of SO members around these days to recruit because of the "no kids" rule that came about in the 80s. As a result, the heavy push is to recruit kids of public Scientologists.

Many of the exes with kids on these boards could tell you stories of the SO recruiters hanging around the doorways of Delphi and some of these other Scientology "learning establishments", ready to pounce on these kids when they come out of school. The schools really can't do much about it because objecting to it would get them in big trouble with the church. Unfortunately, the Scientologist parents of these kids are in the same situation. (There are public Scientologists who have taken their kids out of Scientology schools for exactly this reason; just to get their kids away from the Sea Org recruiters. I'm sure there are parents who won't bring their kids anywhere near a Sea Org org for the same reason, even if they themselves are doing services there.)

The parents are in a tough spot. If they let it occur, they lose their kids to the SO. If they fight it, they wind up in ethics; even threatened with declare.

May seem like a no brainer, your kids vs. the church, but you'd be surprised how much pressure can be put on these parents. Not to mention that a lot of public Scientologists have businesses, etc. with other Scientologists, or their whole client base consists of Scientologists, or they work for a Scientology owned company. So their whole livelihood and the survival of their family hinges on being "in good standing."

The CMO is the major org that works on these adolescents. For some reason they have some "special rules" that allow them to recruit really young kids. I remember someone once telling me they were considered a "training org" and that's what allowed them to do that.

Believe me when I tell you. You don't want to be a Scientologist "in good standing" and get into a tangle with the CMO. They will obliterate you. They have the power, and they have the tenacity. They are so desparate for staff that they will stop at nothing to get a recruit. It's the CMO units in the Sea Org orgs in SO bases like PAC and Flag that are majorly responsible for procuring the staff that wind up in Int Management and RTC, so you can imagine how powerful they are within the church.

That's what happened to the Moxons. Stacy was someone one of the lower (non-CMO) orgs was working on to join. Her father objected, saying he wanted her to finish high school first. That lower org dropped it at that point. (My guess is that he didn't want her to join at all, and was hoping he could dissuade her or she would change her mind by the time she finished school.)

But the CMO got wind of it, and strongarmed her father, despite his objections. They took her, and she was at first in the CMO in LA. She eventually wound up uplines, probably at CMO Int, then wound up at Gold, which means she didn't "make it", I'm sure, wherever she was originally sent. (Anyone who doesn't make it at Int or RTC uplines, if they stay uplines, usually winds up at Gold.)

You know the rest.

User avatar
lulu_belle
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 12:51 pm

Re: Children in the CofS, Sea Org

Post by lulu_belle » Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:03 pm

KMomma wrote:Some of the Scientologists I know, pulled their children out of perfectly fine public schools and put them in Scn schools for no reason, other than they were told by CofS officials that the public schools teachers were "invalidating" their children. Two things are going on here:

1) It is just another way for the CofS to use their Front Groups to make money. It is NOT about the welfare of the child at all.
Ironically, though, when I was in, there was a period of time where the Sea Org was attacking these Scientology owned private shcools.

The reason?

Parents were laying out a lot of money to send their kids to these private shcools....

....when they could be spending the money on Scientology services in the orgs.

I actually don't know how much money these schools give to the church. Most of them are not directly affiliated with the church; they are private businesses owned by Scientologists. I'm sure they pay WISE, but I don't know what other money they fork out to Scientology.

User avatar
KMomma
Posts: 732
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:19 pm

Post by KMomma » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:55 pm

CP - thanks for the confirmation of children in the Sea Org. I noticed you put 15+ in your post, CP. So, 15 is the age that children can join?

lulu_belle - hmm, I'm not sure, but in my area, D.C., we are not close to FL or CA and maybe that is the reason there is such a hard push to get all Scientology children in these schools. I am sure there is a way that money is making its way to the CofS.

shelby - please keep us updated on your efforts. I've tried in my area, maybe you have some better ways to go about it. Thank you.

Ladybird - as always, your expertise is much appreciated and invaluable. And, I do agree with you, threads like these give me much hope and depress me at the same time. Hopefully, we can get something going soon. Thank you.

User avatar
Ladybird
Posts: 5630
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:22 pm

Post by Ladybird » Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:55 pm

K'Momma, As I recall, the scientology school in DC was run by Lee and JoAnne Terbush. They were Flag Public, I recently saw Lee on a list of PTS/SP completions and some other stuff at Flag...he must be having some trouble? I also saw a picture of one of their sons with Osa PI Thierry DeChaunac on an OSA Op, I will see if I can find it.

They were a nice family, I was sad to see them still in.

PS: I found the picture of John Terbush..he is right after DeChaunacs pic.
Sorry this is a bit off topic, but I hope it shows what a scientology kid can grow up to be.

Ladybird



From: NewsForYou and Sockpuppets
Date: Sun, Aug 1 2004 3:09 pm
Groups: alt.religion.scientology


http://web.tampabay.rr.com/sp/PI.html

Photos of scientology PI thugs and dirtbags along with info. Examples
of IRS sanctioned "charitable activity" Pressure lawmakers and IRS
and ask why?

crackers
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:05 pm

Post by crackers » Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:12 pm

In the declarations and affadavits section of the Lisa Mcpherson trust webpage, there are declarations by Zoe and Astra Woodcraft, about their time in Sea Org, and training for the Sea org. Zoe's declaration in particular is a heart-wrenching story of how kids are treated in Scientology and how they're pressured into the Sea Org. Her declaration is really recent, it includes up to the year 2000-or 2001, so it shows what kinda things are currently happening to kids in Scientology.

Another good declaration in Tera Hattaway's, also located on the LMT.

The web address is lisatrust.freewinds.cx/

Post Reply

Return to “Opinions & Debate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests