Bull Baiting

Share your personal experiences with others. We're not here to judge or criticise, but to share and support.

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irbcsz4986
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Bull Baiting

Post by irbcsz4986 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:16 am

At the Org I went to, the course Sup's were trying to be hardcore to-the-letter on the tech. In regards to bull-baiting TR's this meant when LRH said to really "hard" and "stomp" on the PC's buttons, they had you really do exactly that !

The worst I heard was some guy apparently had a button about his spanish accent, so the bull-baiter was screaming stuff like "I can't understand you, you miserable beaner!" " Hable Ingles? Speak English!!"
and so on.

I was partnered with someone and was told he wanted to work on his button of feeling nervous with the boss. So I acted like a tyrannical yelling boss " Pathetic loser ! I should have hired someone else ! Can't you do anything, LOOOSEEERRR!" "Get out of my office, you're worthless !" and so on.

I guess I didn't go until the button went flat cause after that the guy always was mad at me.

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Post by kins » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:53 pm

I was an over weight kid, so typically bullbaiting always started with someone letting me know, in no uncertain terms, how fat I was...poking me in the stomach, etc.

Let's see - Another instance involving my sister...the couse supervisor would try to unsnap her bra through her clothes. After a while, just him reaching toward her back caused a FLUNK.

How censored should we be with this, because some of it gets fairly graphic?

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Post by touchstone » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:43 pm

Despite being a longtime lurker, every now and then I get surprised by some novel aspect among the abusive behaviors of this organization. I had had it firmly in my mind that there had at least been a 'no physical contact' rule for the Bullbaiting TR's. Silly me. This only goes to show once again that telling your stories here serves better than just about anything else to expose the depravity of this cult. I hope others will not hesitate to tell their stories, simply because 'it's the same as what's already been told'. The repetition hammers home how these tales are not isolated incidents.

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Post by brownjedi » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:29 pm

Kins,
So in order for her not to flunk, she would have to allow and not react to the touch, reaching hand of the supervisor...how far did this sick bastard take this. Shirt still on...flunk...this is sickening.

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Post by kins » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:02 pm

Touchstone, my understanding now is that touching was not supposed to happen, but both our course supervisors (one woman and one man) used touch occassionally while bullbaiting. I wonder - did anyone else see this happen, or were we in a unique situation?

Brownjedi, it only went as far as him touching the bra in the back to unhook it - shirt still on. Aside from the stomach poking and bra unhooking, the only other touching I remember was an occassional leg stroking It only took one or two times of him actually touching one of our legs or unhooking a bra to make all of us react (FLUNK) when he would reach toward us in any fashion.

Mostly bullbaiting was a verbal barrage of things that might cause crying, anger, or embarrassment. Since we were all teenaged girls, embarrassment was a HUGE button. And topics of a sexual nature were a guranteed FLUNK FLUNK FLUNK. Once we would flunk with the course supervisor, we four were turned loose on eachother to practice for the next 'test' - we were just as ruthless with each other and would take whatever subject the Course Sup flunked us on and run it into the ground.

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Post by brownjedi » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:11 pm

THis is just not right. This would be considered a hostile work environment and would warrant a sexual harassment case.

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Post by friendly nature » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:06 am

My inderstanding of the TR's patter was that the coach "may do anything except leave the chair". So I was pretty nasty back in my scieno days, and..like..I was on course with Pitbull. So I took my wang out and grabbed Pitbull by the back of the head and pulled his face down on my wingy-dingy. When I let him up he was smiling from ear to ear and so I'd always say "Flunk! you smiled!..Start!" I don't think he ever got flat on that TR.

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Post by programmer_guy » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:00 am

Dana (1970s ASHO Day Qual) used to like to bullbait me on being a Jesus Freak. It was weird because I had absolutely no button on it whatsoever (yes, there are some absolutes in this universe :proud: ). I think that she had been in the Sea Org for so long that she had lost her ability to bullbait effectively! :lol: :lol:
Last edited by programmer_guy on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Galileo » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:10 am

I don't know if there is a "tech" reference on this, but when I was trained as a course supervisor physical contact during bullbaiting was considered "not OK" according to all the experienced sups in my org.

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Post by 'Alert' » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:36 am

Patter as a confronted Subject:
The coach may say or do anything except leave the chair. However, the coach must be realistic in his coaching, giving real conditions and circumstances that could come up in everyday life. The coach may not touch the student empasis mine

The student's buttons can be found and tromped on hard until they no longer produce a reaction. Any words not coaching words may recieve no response from the student. If student responds, the coach is instantly a coach (and follows the patter above).

Student passes when he can be there comfortably without being thrown off or distracted or made to reat in any way to anything the coach says or does and has reached a major stable win.
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55

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Post by programmer_guy » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:40 am

'Alert',

I have found no HCOBs that state that the coach could not touch the student.

Would you provide the HCOB date where you found that?

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Post by magoo1 » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:01 am

I remember something coming out in I believe the '70's re "no touching'....
or perhaps it was just that 'coaching had to be real" and the sups equated that with no touching, but I do remember that was not Ok at ASHO,
and CC where I trained, early on.

I always enjoyed bullbaiting, and was good at finding people's 'buttons',
to the point where one time a businessman came into CC. People had tried to 'find his buttons' and he didn't crack a smile: Nothing. Yvonne J. (the Commanding officer of CC) came and got me. She explained she needed me to find his buttons, as "We know he has some, and is just suppressing them".

Ok, so I sat down and did a few of the typical bullbaiting deals, most people had buttons on. He laughed at none of them. So I sat back, and just looked at him. Suddenly, I just said, 'FROGS". He BURST out laughing! I said, "Flunk, you laughed. Start". and we did that a few times.
He laughed and laughed. Finally he asked for a time out, to ask me something. Amazed, he said, "How did you know?"

I said, "Know what?" He explained for years he used to walk around
Central Park with a toy frog on his hand, talking to kids. What could I say? "My OT abilities in action" (teasing of course).

We knew he'd really become a Scientologist just from that one drill.
That was the beginning for a man I called "Froggie" for years. If you're reading this, give me a call :wink: That just goes to show how something so small can truly rope someone into the Scio/Truman show.

Best to all :wink:

Tory/Magoo~~ 8)

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Post by SchwimmelPuckel » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:04 am

I recall bullbaiting as fun too. Not something very sinister that could show how evil $cientology is. Part of the initial communications course that is rather agreeable in order to get people started.

hmm.. I don't remember any touching. I think we were told not to.

However, bullbaiting by it's nature gets raunchy. Most people have 'buttons' on sexuality. I bullbaited a very charming young girl who cracked up just because I looked down at her lap. She was screaming with laughter and the button didn't seem to flatten.

We then bullbaited something easier for a time. But I could still crack her up by looking and making eyes.

Even next day. She wore a longer skirt... I jokingly flunked her for that and did as yesterday. So she was redfaced and hiccuping from laughter again.

I don't think there's any bad effects of these TR's as such. Dry eyes from TR 0 for sure.. One of the TR's is the one where you try to 'raise' an ashtray by commanding it. Makes you feel rather silly...

The stated aim for it all were to train yourself to better 'confront'. Being better able to percieve what's around you without prejudice. Hold your ground in a discussion without being agitated. That sort of things.

There was the idea that you could 'exteriorize' during TR 0 and check out your own hairdo from behind. People were convinced that they did.. They said so anyway... I didn't experience anything like that. However, sitting absolutly still for so long makes you feel weird. I felt like wearing a hat at one time.

This thread discusses the TR's in debt: The "Source" of TR-0 (eyes open)

I think that making people believe in 'exteriorization' is a little first step in the entrapment. Being a 'thetan', past lives and all that. Then believing in 'auditing'.

If all that worked as advertised we wouldn't have this discussion.
:onebounce:
[i]Ask not what [url=http://www.lermanet.com][color=blue]Scientology[/color][/url] can do for you, ask what the F*arck! is going on.[/i]

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Post by kins » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:07 pm

I feel the need to vent for a minute....

Perhaps bullbaiting amoung adults is indeed harmless and fun, but in my experience, this is one of those Scientology-related situations where treating a kid like a big Thetan in a little body results in something much less palatable.

Think of the subject matter you all bantered back and forth about, the buttons you pushed, the effort to hurt feelings or make someone angry, the effort to find an insecurity and exploit it, the language and topics...now imagine yelling them at 12 to 14 year olds. Perhaps we had some very zealous Course Sups? I am not sure I have ever talked to any other kids who were raised in Scientology about their bullbaiting experiences to know if there are comparisons. But I will say it is ridiculous to expect 12, 13 and 14 year olds to flatten any and all reactions when confronted by an adult describing sexual situations in penthouse forum-type details. Then to find yourself in auditing when you expressed negative feelings about this, until you convinced yourself that you must have some real overts/withholds on the subject.

I think if you asked me or any of my sisters...we would argue with you as to how fun, helpful, and harmless it was.

....End rant.

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Post by zeutheir » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:20 pm

When I ran TRs on HQS, I had three coaches try to have a go on me, and none ever found buttons. There was minimal touching, but definitely some presence of touching when I was being baited on sexuality, just hand rubbing, etc.

All I remember from the patter is that the coach could do anything to tromp hard on buttons without leaving the chair and keeping reality in.

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