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Lisa
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 92
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 Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject:
Debate: Daughter of Norwegian PM commits suicide
Subject description: Adding this info in the most visited section of the board
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The 20 year old daughter of a Norwegian PM has commited suicide after getting a negative reading on her scientology-test.
I know this has already been mentioned in the media-reports section, and that Andreas is all over this, giving interviews on the subject etc, but a lot of people I know (including myself *shame*) frequent THIS section of the board much more then others, and it hasn't been mentioned on opinions & debate.
Besides, there is much to discuss regarding this topic:
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=26867
Personally, reading about it made me sick. Poor girl.
A test like that would be so upsetting to a young girl with her history.
To think of a person giving it to her, and then just hammering away at her weak points and insecurities afterwards, without offering her any ACTUAL help (apart from: "sign up!") makes my blood run cold.
Anyway, I would like to hear from people who have administered these tests to people themselves.
If you were a scientology-recruiter yourself at one point:
How would you have handled a fragile girl like this?
Do you know of cases like this, is there a standard-policy for them? (Other then to deny you had anything to do with it) Do recruiters feel bad when they notice they are emotionally upsetting their target, or do they only think of stats?
Your input and explainations would be appreciated.  |
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SomebodyElse
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 1489
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject:
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Norway seems to be on fire with media about this. I saw at another forum that a spokesman did no favors for the cult on national TV.
Some highlights/comments
| Quote: | | Scilon PR-guy admits on national tv that he sent PIs after critic |
| Quote: | After his performance on national television today, I expect that a full investigation of the church of scientology in Norway will be carried out.
He came off as a fanatic, taking zero responsibility for the situation. His arguments were paper thin and recourse will likely follow in form of a full investigation of the cult's practices.
You don't kill people and get away with it. |
| Quote: | Yeah, he could use some more charisma though.
But that scilon eels performance made him look like a divine being passing judgement. |
| Quote: | People, like kill themselves all the time. The fact that our personality test, complete with "you are human waste" verdict was found at the scene, had nothing to do with it.
The media already wants this guy's head on a plate, it won't be long before the government will follow suit. |
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The Truth of Scientology |
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frode
Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 68
Location: Norway, Stavanger
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject:
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I'm sure Andreas will provide details later. Just wanted to mention that he is at this movement on his second live intervju on national Norwegian television, and did several radio intervjues in radio earlier today. It's storming around Scientology in Norway today.
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Frode |
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mickwenlock
Joined: 24 May 2002
Posts: 716
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Debate: Daughter of Norwegian PM commits suicide
Subject description: Adding this info in the most visited section of the board
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| Lisa wrote: | The 20 year old daughter of a Norwegian PM has commited suicide after getting a negative reading on her scientology-test.
I know this has already been mentioned in the media-reports section, and that Andreas is all over this, giving interviews on the subject etc, but a lot of people I know (including myself *shame*) frequent THIS section of the board much more then others, and it hasn't been mentioned on opinions & debate.
Besides, there is much to discuss regarding this topic:
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=26867
Personally, reading about it made me sick. Poor girl.
A test like that would be so upsetting to a young girl with her history.
To think of a person giving it to her, and then just hammering away at her weak points and insecurities afterwards, without offering her any ACTUAL help (apart from: "sign up!") makes my blood run cold.
Anyway, I would like to hear from people who have administered these tests to people themselves.
If you were a scientology-recruiter yourself at one point:
How would you have handled a fragile girl like this?
Do you know of cases like this, is there a standard-policy for them? (Other then to deny you had anything to do with it) Do recruiters feel bad when they notice they are emotionally upsetting their target, or do they only think of stats?
Your input and explainations would be appreciated. |
If I had been doing the evaluation and it was clear that I had found the person's ruin I would have been ruthless about trying to exploit it. Why? Because HUbbard said that if you found someone's ruin and told it to them they would move up the awareness level to "demand for improvement" - ie "How can I fix that?" and that is where you would sell them the comm course or a book. |
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Don Carlo
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4591
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject:
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Gawker names Op. Clambake on this story:
| Quote: | | Members of the anti-Church site Operation Clambake are discussing the story with mild skepticism. While Scientology does have a presence in Norway, the whole affair could be a coverup for another cause of death, or a political maneuver. |
from Daughter of Norwegian Parliament Offs Herself after Bad Scientology Test Says Tabloid at
http://gawker.com/380005/daughter-of-norwegian-parliament-offs-herself-after-bad-scientology-test-says-tabloid
"A political maneuver?" Where did we say that? |
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Whitedove
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 946
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject:
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Ok, here is my own speculation.
First, she was probably at least suffering from depression. Impossible she was all happy going and the personality test drove her to suicide so the media is not telling us the whole story.
Second, if she was suffering from depression, this is the PERFECT example that $cientology DO NOT KNOW HOW to treat depression. Plus, someone in that mental state is fragile so depending what she was told by the $cientologist who evaluated her, THAT have drove her to the edge.
$cientology doesnt believe in mental illnesses and see what is happening.
Hey TC, $cientology is the authority on the 'mind'?! 
Shut the hell up! 
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We are still masters of our fate. We are still captains of our souls. - Winston Churchill |
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Simonymous
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 786
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject:
Re: Debate: Daughter of Norwegian PM commits suicide
Subject description: Adding this info in the most visited section of the board
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| Lisa wrote: |
To think of a person giving it to her, and then just hammering away at her weak points and insecurities afterwards, without offering her any ACTUAL help (apart from: "sign up!") makes my blood run cold.
Do you know of cases like this, is there a standard-policy for them? |
Lisa,
I've never been "in" but I've read a lot about that Personality test. The answers are rigged to make you sound bad. Even if you get the perfect answers, they have a script in place to tell you how awful you are.
There's a file on some critical site called OCA-RESULTS.PDF that you should look for. (I don't have a link, anyone know where it is?) In it, it explains, when your score is tallied, what each set of scores means. All the answers are like, "You are inhibited, submissive and afraid to face up to handling people..." In the nine pages, there's not one positive answer.
It also has an IQ summary, and whether your IQ is less than 100 or over 120, Scientology will help you and raise your IQ!
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Uwe Stuckenbrock was destroyed by Scientology. These harms must never be allowed to continue. |
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chipgallo
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 118
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject:
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I took a short course in how to run the "testing line" when at Flag in 1982 or so and it sounds like nowadays they are squirreling their own tech on the subject. Further, if you go back to the OEC Vol VI Policy Letters, they recommend using a classed auditor to give the eval while the person is on the meter. A trained auditor would follow the Auditor's Code even while not formally in session and heavy invalidation might not occur. They hopefully would also spot BIs (bad indicators) and not let the person walk out all caved in. There is an insurance liability to having someone fall while crying or get hit by a car in front of the org, whatever.
Long story short, DM has fathered another abusive tool of control. Any organization using this bastardized recruitment tool needs to be seriously monitored and even closed for an external review.
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Unlisted
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 52
Location: :noitacoL
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:59 pm Post subject:
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| Whitedove wrote: | this is the PERFECT example that $cientology DO NOT KNOW HOW to treat depression. Plus, someone in that mental state is fragile so depending what she was told by the $cientologist who evaluated her, THAT have drove her to the edge.
$cientology doesnt believe in mental illnesses and see what is happening.
Hey TC, $cientology is the authority on the 'mind'?!
Shut the hell up! |
Unless you're a trained and licensed professional, STFU.
If you are it's intensely unprofessional to make such an evaluation on a messageboard, particularly since no one asked you for one.
Show some respect. |
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Whitedove
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 946
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:37 am Post subject:
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| Unlisted wrote: | | Whitedove wrote: | this is the PERFECT example that $cientology DO NOT KNOW HOW to treat depression. Plus, someone in that mental state is fragile so depending what she was told by the $cientologist who evaluated her, THAT have drove her to the edge.
$cientology doesnt believe in mental illnesses and see what is happening.
Hey TC, $cientology is the authority on the 'mind'?!
Shut the hell up! |
Unless you're a trained and licensed professional, STFU.
If you are it's intensely unprofessional to make such an evaluation on a messageboard, particularly since no one asked you for one.
Show some respect. |
HUH?
unlisted? have you read what I wrote?
Do you have a misunderstood word?
TC (Tom Cruise)
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We are still masters of our fate. We are still captains of our souls. - Winston Churchill |
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SomebodyElse
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 1489
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:40 am Post subject:
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| Unlisted wrote: | Unless you're a trained and licensed professional, STFU.
If you are it's intensely unprofessional to make such an evaluation on a messageboard, particularly since no one asked you for one.
Show some respect. |
Err? Misunderstanding perhaps?
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The Truth of Scientology |
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Whitedove
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 946
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:48 am Post subject:
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| SomebodyElse wrote: | | Unlisted wrote: | Unless you're a trained and licensed professional, STFU.
If you are it's intensely unprofessional to make such an evaluation on a messageboard, particularly since no one asked you for one.
Show some respect. |
Err? Misunderstanding perhaps? |
That or something else which I wont say right now and give him the benefice of the doubt.
When I said TC i meant Tom Cruise
sheesh. my messages are REALLY mild compare to many many others.
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We are still masters of our fate. We are still captains of our souls. - Winston Churchill |
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Unlisted
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 52
Location: :noitacoL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:20 am Post subject:
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sorry I misunderstood you, I'm just a little bit protective of Kaja I suppose.
and I'm not a him btw  |
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Whitedove
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 946
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:27 am Post subject:
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| Unlisted wrote: | sorry I misunderstood you, I'm just a little bit protective of Kaja I suppose.
and I'm not a him btw |
no harm done.
glad we cleared this up.
got it girl
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We are still masters of our fate. We are still captains of our souls. - Winston Churchill |
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Lisa
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:22 am Post subject:
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Thank you for your replies everyone!
Simonymous, I know about the fact that they are rigged, but thanx for saying it anyway because that fact should be repeated as much as possible!
What I am basically interested in is if the recruiters realise this and tear people down on purpose (which is unimaginable to me).
What Mickwenlock and Chipgallo wrote seems to support that, though.
To me it seems such a contradiction to become a scientologist to help people, and then tearing them down just so you can sell a book or course. Surely recruiters must know deep down inside that what they are doing isnīt exactly... Well, īniceī, to put it mildly.
Unlisted, I mean no respect to Kaja at all. My heart goes out to that poor girl and her family. Iīm not interested in dissecting her character and motivations at all, I wanted to hear the recruiters point of view.
Did they ever have someone become very upset and if so, are they taught to just see that as an opportunity to recruit and follow a standard "one approach fits all" method when confronted with such strong emotions, or do they actually try to help.
Because regardless of what happened with Kaja, I think there must have been many other cases where people felt worthless after being told they scored very low. Itīs human nature to be a little bit shaken when someone tells you that you have a bad or underdeveloped personality!
It just makes me mad that they would use such a manipulative method of recruiting people.
(btw Mick you scare me!  Glad you are out so that you donīt have to be such a ruthless person anymore. |
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