Scientology Orgs: Interfering with religion?

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Twin A
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Scientology Orgs: Interfering with religion?

Post by Twin A » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:05 pm

What exactly is this misdemeanor code number for "Interfering with religion"? I couldn't find it upon search of internet. I found interfering with someones civil rights because of their race or religion, I found damaging property because of someone's race, sex, religion, etc. --- but I didn't find any numbered code about interfering with religion. I hope someone didn't misread the code? I mean if they think that the "because of" applies to the civil rights term before it, that would be totally idiotic. No one gets special civil rights because of their race or religion.

I'm wondering if what some of the things that that Int base staff did towards me when I was stuck out at OGH would be considered interfering with religion? I was born and raised in a Christian family. I prayed and I celebrated Easter and Christmas. Not much, but it was part of my religion. I was told that Scientology was non-denominational and anybody of any religion could use it. My mother was also told this when she had signed my parental consent to join the Sea Organization.

OK... so... flash forward... in 1983, I'd joined the Sea Org and I was told by someone in CMO CW that "praying" was "another practice" and also that it was "stupid" to pray to god. Later on, in the later 80's I got handed, while at INT the Tech Bulletin "The WHY is God" which is atheist. I had to read this several times over. I had to write down in some of my O/W writes ups (written confession of sins and secrets) that I had prayed to God before I'd gotten into Scientology, as if it was wrong that I had done that because it was somehow a squirrel practice or an "other practice." In 1995, I was shown a goldenrod Committee of Evidence on a member of the FB Mgmt team. Included as part of her RPF Assignment was that she had "confessed" to be "praying to God" and "trying to get closer to Gold" with Scientology --- as if it was something wrong! From 1997 onwards I was prevented from celebrating Easter and Christmas completely. In 1999, a lady who spent some time with me at the OGH area of the Hemet base was explaining to me the bible during a meal break and some after work hours. I enjoyed this. She used to be a Catholic Nun. One night I went to go see her and she looked sullen. She was sitting in her room and she said that she was not "supposed" to be talking to use about the bible, because her auditor/Scientology counselor had said it was a "constant PT overt" on her part and that she could not do it while she was getting her auditing. Later,she also pointed out to me that the LRH Calender that the staff were given as gifts now no longer contained Easter and Christmas.

So I was unable to learn about or practice the Christianity I'd been raised with and the choice had been made for me by staff at both the Church of Scientology in Clearwater and the staff at The Church of Scientology International.

the last Three months I was in the Sea Organzation, when I was getting some PAB 6 steps and being prepared for offload, I was allowed to read the bible. One of the people assigned to watch me verbally told me that LRH said that Jesus Christ was "just an implant." I acknowledged her and I asked what reference it was, which LRH reference exactly? And she replied that it was on the Class 8 lectures. I did not discuss this with her since I was not a Class 8 and did not have access to those tapes.

I did get to continue to read the bible as a public Scientologist but I was still kind of hung up about what I'd heard in LRH lectures about how he though Jesus was a gag and an implant. And I was kind of mad that I had not been able to read the bible earlier while on staff.

I found a story on the internet about how Micheal Pattinson had been told that he had to relinquish his belief in Christ in order to continue as a Scientologist. This is extortion, since if a person choses to leave Scientology in their later stages of involvement, it would mean losing a great deal new contacts and friends that one has become dependent on. It is something that should be made known to anyone BEFORE they get involved in Scientology, that at the higher levels one is expected to relinquish their belief in Christ eventually.

I was expected as part of my "dissemination" duties as a public Scientologists to try and convince others that Scientology would not intefer with their Christian belief system--- but I knew otherwise. So.. what I did was I bought a book called The Jesus Mysteries. It has kind of a different view of Christ. It acknowledges the possibility that Christ may have meant a spiritual energy that we all have inside us represented by the man on the cross story. It was more of different view of Christ, a gnostic view. It wasn't the same as the claim that he didn't really exist, or that he was a "gag" or an "implant" and I sent this book up to the Snr CS INT Office in an effort to discuss this matter, to clarify what LRH's position on Christ REALLY was? Was it Gnostic perhaps? What did LRH actually say on those Class 8 lectures? I needed to know what I could honestly tell others about how Scientology related to Christianity. I don't think I ever got an answer, maybe a thank you for sending the book. But I don't know.


Currently I believe that Scientology is ANTI Christian and that in being misleading and dishonest about this, I was prevented from continuing what I was taught as a Christian and from studying the bible and making my own decisions about Christ. This was interfering with my religion.

Wonder what the statue of limitation is on interfering with someone's religion? Should I report CSI as a group for preventing me from visiting my family and celebrating Easter and Christmas as part of my Christian upbringing?

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elwood
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Post by elwood » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:50 pm

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen.html. Try California PENAL CODE
SECTION 423-423.6.
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy.
-- Dave Barry

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ZenuEtrawl
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Post by ZenuEtrawl » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:39 pm

elwood wrote:http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen.html. Try California PENAL CODE
SECTION 423-423.6.


That only applies to violence, threat of violence, or physically obstructing the way into a church (or reproductive health clinic), though... a law obviously passed in response to the Operation Rescue tactic of making entry to reproductive health clinics impossible, with churches thrown in as a political balance.

42 USC 1983 is closer, but only applies to persons who, in some way or another, act as agents of government. 42 USC 1985(3), a law passed in response to the KKK, seems germane to what she's thinking about. The trick then would be proving conspiracy - and surviving years of litigation against a wealthy opponent.

Caveat: IANAL, hopefully someone who is will set this thread straight.
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Quietheart
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Re: Scientology Orgs: Interfering with religion?

Post by Quietheart » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:45 am

Twin A wrote:What exactly is this misdemeanor code number for "Interfering with religion"? I couldn't find it upon search of internet. I found interfering with someones civil rights because of their race or religion, I found damaging property because of someone's race, sex, religion, etc. --- but I didn't find any numbered code about interfering with religion. I hope someone didn't misread the code? I mean if they think that the "because of" applies to the civil rights term before it, that would be totally idiotic. No one gets special civil rights because of their race or religion.

I'm wondering if what some of the things that that Int base staff did towards me when I was stuck out at OGH would be considered interfering with religion? I was born and raised in a Christian family. I prayed and I celebrated Easter and Christmas. Not much, but it was part of my religion. I was told that Scientology was non-denominational and anybody of any religion could use it. My mother was also told this when she had signed my parental consent to join the Sea Organization.

OK... so... flash forward... in 1983, I'd joined the Sea Org and I was told by someone in CMO CW that "praying" was "another practice" and also that it was "stupid" to pray to god. Later on, in the later 80's I got handed, while at INT the Tech Bulletin "The WHY is God" which is atheist. I had to read this several times over. I had to write down in some of my O/W writes ups (written confession of sins and secrets) that I had prayed to God before I'd gotten into Scientology, as if it was wrong that I had done that because it was somehow a squirrel practice or an "other practice." In 1995, I was shown a goldenrod Committee of Evidence on a member of the FB Mgmt team. Included as part of her RPF Assignment was that she had "confessed" to be "praying to God" and "trying to get closer to Gold" with Scientology --- as if it was something wrong! From 1997 onwards I was prevented from celebrating Easter and Christmas completely. In 1999, a lady who spent some time with me at the OGH area of the Hemet base was explaining to me the bible during a meal break and some after work hours. I enjoyed this. She used to be a Catholic Nun. One night I went to go see her and she looked sullen. She was sitting in her room and she said that she was not "supposed" to be talking to use about the bible, because her auditor/Scientology counselor had said it was a "constant PT overt" on her part and that she could not do it while she was getting her auditing. Later,she also pointed out to me that the LRH Calender that the staff were given as gifts now no longer contained Easter and Christmas.

So I was unable to learn about or practice the Christianity I'd been raised with and the choice had been made for me by staff at both the Church of Scientology in Clearwater and the staff at The Church of Scientology International.

the last Three months I was in the Sea Organzation, when I was getting some PAB 6 steps and being prepared for offload, I was allowed to read the bible. One of the people assigned to watch me verbally told me that LRH said that Jesus Christ was "just an implant." I acknowledged her and I asked what reference it was, which LRH reference exactly? And she replied that it was on the Class 8 lectures. I did not discuss this with her since I was not a Class 8 and did not have access to those tapes.

I did get to continue to read the bible as a public Scientologist but I was still kind of hung up about what I'd heard in LRH lectures about how he though Jesus was a gag and an implant. And I was kind of mad that I had not been able to read the bible earlier while on staff.

I found a story on the internet about how Micheal Pattinson had been told that he had to relinquish his belief in Christ in order to continue as a Scientologist. This is extortion, since if a person choses to leave Scientology in their later stages of involvement, it would mean losing a great deal new contacts and friends that one has become dependent on. It is something that should be made known to anyone BEFORE they get involved in Scientology, that at the higher levels one is expected to relinquish their belief in Christ eventually.

I was expected as part of my "dissemination" duties as a public Scientologists to try and convince others that Scientology would not intefer with their Christian belief system--- but I knew otherwise. So.. what I did was I bought a book called The Jesus Mysteries. It has kind of a different view of Christ. It acknowledges the possibility that Christ may have meant a spiritual energy that we all have inside us represented by the man on the cross story. It was more of different view of Christ, a gnostic view. It wasn't the same as the claim that he didn't really exist, or that he was a "gag" or an "implant" and I sent this book up to the Snr CS INT Office in an effort to discuss this matter, to clarify what LRH's position on Christ REALLY was? Was it Gnostic perhaps? What did LRH actually say on those Class 8 lectures? I needed to know what I could honestly tell others about how Scientology related to Christianity. I don't think I ever got an answer, maybe a thank you for sending the book. But I don't know.


Currently I believe that Scientology is ANTI Christian and that in being misleading and dishonest about this, I was prevented from continuing what I was taught as a Christian and from studying the bible and making my own decisions about Christ. This was interfering with my religion.

Wonder what the statue of limitation is on interfering with someone's religion? Should I report CSI as a group for preventing me from visiting my family and celebrating Easter and Christmas as part of my Christian upbringing?

Twin A,
Would it be ok with you for me to post a link to this thread on the Christian boards I'm on? I will never post links to anything said here without permission.
Last edited by Quietheart on Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

RedPill
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Anti Bible/Anti Christian

Post by RedPill » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:50 pm

Not only is Scientology anti Christian and anti Bible, it is downright Satanic. LRH professed, in so many words in the OT8 material, that when he came back here, he would be a political leader, THE anti Christ.

Prior to Scientology, he convinced himself that he was the Devil incarnate, and went about "assuming that beingness". If you go to Gerry Armstrong's website, also if you read what Nibs, aka LRH Junior, aka Ron DeWolf had to say about his father, he states that LRH was into black magic bigtime.

If someone is a 100% true believer by the time they reach the Xenu story on OTIII, they then believe that they are ridding themselves of body thetans, that is, beings degraded to the point where they believe that they are, for instance, your left big toe or some such thing. In true belief, you then attempt to initiate contact with these beings to get rid of them. But perhaps that is not the way it works. Maybe what you are really doing is searching for unclean spirits/fallen angels with an electronic divining rod, i.e., an e-meter. Instead of shooing them off, you are really inviting the little buggers in by opening up communication with them. The more you attempt to shoo them off, the more of them start hanging around you. Getting rid of them for real might be like attempting to get rid of email spammers ... once you get on the lists, your email just keeps getting spammed again and again, regardless of how hard you try to get off the lists. Ultimately, in either case, you can prevail, but it might not be all that easy.

Pete

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Twin A
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Re: Scientology Orgs: Interfering with religion?

Post by Twin A » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:32 am

anonangl wrote:Would it be ok with you for me to post a link to this thread on the Christian boards I'm on? I will never post links to anything said here without permission.
Angl


Sure, thanks for checking.

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Quietheart
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Post by Quietheart » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:43 am

Thanks, I'll post it tomorrow, celebrating my birthday today.
Last edited by Quietheart on Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Twin A
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Post by Twin A » Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:15 am

anonangl wrote:Thanks, I'll post it tomorrow, celebrating my birthday today.
Angl
Happy Birthday anonangl!! Lots of June birthdays around here.

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Sea Horse
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Re: Anti Bible/Anti Christian

Post by Sea Horse » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:53 am

RedPill wrote:Not only is Scientology anti Christian and anti Bible, it is downright Satanic. LRH professed, in so many words in the OT8 material, that when he came back here, he would be a political leader, THE anti Christ.

Karin Pouw, Scientology spokesperson blurts out, “So we think Jesus is a figment of the imagination! So what!”
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2008/05/scientology_rea.php
We are the architects of our own lives. Design and build the life you want.

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magitad
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Post by magitad » Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:59 pm

-maggie, human being

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elwood
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Post by elwood » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:54 pm

All of the laws we have looked at depend on "force or the threat of force" as the means by which access is denied to churches, people are intimidated, etc. In Henson's case the Scienos insisted that their "parishioners and staff" were terrified of Keith (a lone picketer) and that his Internet postings constituted "threat of force". This is greatly simplified, but I think the point is made.

The Anons will keep it peaceful and will keep the videos cranking.
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy.
-- Dave Barry

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