Don't do OSA's job for them.

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
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Mewba
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Don't do OSA's job for them.

Post by Mewba » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:11 pm

I think posts along the lines of "why are numbers going down?, why are people losing interest? Is Anon in flux? or fading into apathy?" Are not useful, are not true, and are in fact harmful to our cause. When I go onto public boards where the readers are discussing a magazine article about Anonymous there's usually a $cientologist posing as a public person saying those very things. Then they usually get exposed by an educated poster. OSA lurkers jump for joy when they read morale-killing posts like that here. Please don't do OSA's job for them.
Ron Hubbard's the kind of person that would just as soon tell a lie as tell the truth.
--Me

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Benny's Friend
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Post by Benny's Friend » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:28 pm

I gotta agree with Mewba here. It makes for interesting discussion, but it's putting ammunition in the wrong hands.
The more who speak out, the more who get out.

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Fanboy The Great And...
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Post by Fanboy The Great And... » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:50 pm

I just don't think that the numbers ARE going down in any meaningful way.

The numbers are down in the areas where the fight is seemingly already won, where Scientology has lost big-time or refused to fight at all - or where they'll win until the end of the CoS itself and all we need is a 'placeholder' group to enturbulate them and make Dainty Davey waste money, like LA. Even so, despite 'down' numbers, LA had some major fucking wins this weekend, like the Subway kids.

Places like San Francisco, London, Australia, the attendance was up or at least the same as past months because the feeling of victory was in the air.


Scientology is caught between a rock and a hard place.

If David Miscavige orders all the orgs to just IGNORE the protesters and hide from them, then most of Anonymous will go away. However, if he does so, it'll show more and more Scientologists how hollow and empty Scientology IS at 'confronting and shattering suppression' and lead to more and more defections.

If DM orders more and visible action in accordance with KSW, then it'll only entertain the Anons, educate more people as to how abusive and genuinely evil Scientology is, and lead to more and more defections as Scientologists still in 'wake up' and realize that this is not where they wanted to be, not what they wanted to do.

It's lose/lose for David and he knows it. That's why this protest saw such a schizophrenic set of responses from the CoS; London and Australia hid, Los Angeles tried to bully the surrounding businesses, Berlin tried to raise the specter of Crystal Night...

He's spreading out his orders, trying to find SOME solution that works because Hubbard's tech has failed, and he'll fail too because the only things that will TRULY get rid of Anonymous he isn't willing to do:

Completely reform the Church of Scientology, accept his guilt in the matter, pay off his spiritual and physical and mental and monetary debt to the thousands of ex- and current members, admit that the Church of Scientology was a criminal organization first and foremost, and dissolve the CoS and all its front organizations entirely.
"Of course he went by Ron; who would have
taken a guy named Lafayette seriously?"

"Scientology is only about convincing the able they're crippled,
and lying to the crippled with the promise of making them able."

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Mewba
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Post by Mewba » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:04 am

I agree with you Fanboy. It's still a very positive picture. Anonymous scored 5 runs in the 1st inning! Maybe the 2nd wasn't as exciting but jeeeez, you gotta be ready for a long game everybody.
Ron Hubbard's the kind of person that would just as soon tell a lie as tell the truth.
--Me

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Post by songbird » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:51 am

Mewba wrote:OSA lurkers jump for joy when they read morale-killing posts like that here.
If so, their joy will be short lived. The truth about Scientology is getting out daily and, frankly, I see no stopping that.
All DM's horses and all DM's men cannot put Humpty together again. :wink: :lol:

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Post by Roan » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:05 am

I agree with everything said in this thread so far.

There is no turning back the clock for Scientology: new "recruits," i.e. bodies in shop are at painfully low levels. Though the staffers I talk to blythely chirp that Scientology is expanding. :roll:

I can't imagine a person in a Western society, not having heard of Scientology, buying into it after checking it out on the internet.

.
“The failure to condemn an activity is indeed, an offer of tacit approval.
All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.” — Edmund Burke

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Re: Don't do OSA's job for them.

Post by antiscn » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:37 am

Mewba wrote:I think posts along the lines of "why are numbers going down?, why are people losing interest? Is Anon in flux? or fading into apathy?" Are not useful, are not true, and are in fact harmful to our cause. When I go onto public boards where the readers are discussing a magazine article about Anonymous there's usually a $cientologist posing as a public person saying those very things. Then they usually get exposed by an educated poster. OSA lurkers jump for joy when they read morale-killing posts like that here. Please don't do OSA's job for them.
I totally agree.
Those kind of subject-headings,whilst they may arise out of concern,can actually generate apathy and even possibly discourage people.
I was reading one thread on enturb about a guy who did a lone picket.
Whilst I always discrourage lone picketing,I really admired this guy's bravery and his spirit.To me,that's amazing.People are becoming a lot less scared of the cult.That's not to say that we shouldn't be careful,but they really have a HUGE problem on their hands at the moment.
Really,numbers don't matter too much and Anonymous is a very loose affiliation of people which will naturally shift and change.It has already created many,many people who have educated themselves about the crimes of the cult,and who are educating hundreds of others all the time,creating a ripple outwards which I believe we are only just beginning to see the effects of.

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Post by Sponge » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:33 am


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Ladybird
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Post by Ladybird » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:05 am

Thanks Sponge. That South/North Dakota clip was funny. Historic outhouse is about right. Did you know the QEI (Quality Executive International) Diane Kettering is from North Dakota? Her parents and most of her family have died and I believe she is still in the SP room at Hemet, so I don't know who she could call to come and save her.

There are lots of people like her who have burned all their real bridges.
[i]"There is nothing as wild in the books of Man as will probably happen here on Earth...it will happen and be allowed to happen simply because all this is so incredible that nobody will even think of stopping it until it is far, far too late"~LRH[/i]

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Post by spacecootie » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:16 am

I have to disagree strongly with the premise of this thread.

Anonymous got involved in the whole Co$ issue due to suppression of information. Any discussion of life inside the Scilon empire is full of tales about people not mentioning the obvious problems for fear of being labeled an SP or being assigned a lower ethics condition.

If you really want to see why $cientology will ultimately end in epic fail, read Fishdaddy's amazing account of his decades at the wheel of the Co$ public relations/advertising/promotions machine. He's still posting new chapters, but it is already the best account of life inside Co$ that I've ever read.

http://counterfeitdreams.blogspot.com

In Chapter Six, he writes about going on photo shoots with Hubbard, which resulted in those incredibly hokey-looking illustrations that graced many Co$ publications in the mid-seventies.
Of course, the resulting photos were awful. The shoddy sets, strange costumes and corny poses all combined to make photos that were truly cringe-worthy. Yet while everyone knew it, it was never stated aloud. Anything the Commodore did was brilliant and creative and perfect, and one kept any other opinion strictly to oneself. Like the Emperor’s New Clothes, no one wanted to be the first to admit that they didn’t see the Commodore’s genius in every shot.
Co$ can't admit its shortcomings, so it can't do anything to fix them... which will ultimately be its undoing.

Instead of repeating its mistakes, we can learn from them.

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Post by Ladybird » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:39 am

The cult has godzillions of security cameras all around all of their properties. If someone broke their windows they do have it on tape. What a fricken hoke it is to pretend that they are are being abused and threatened when obviously they have the means to identify the perpetrators. Faking a Kristallnacht is just another cult trick invoking Godwin's Law. You lose scientology. You lost the the game long ago and everybody but you has noticed the putrid smell of your dead cult.
[i]"There is nothing as wild in the books of Man as will probably happen here on Earth...it will happen and be allowed to happen simply because all this is so incredible that nobody will even think of stopping it until it is far, far too late"~LRH[/i]

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Mewba
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Post by Mewba » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:04 am

spacecootie wrote:I have to disagree strongly with the premise of this thread.

Anonymous got involved in the whole Co$ issue due to suppression of information.
No one's talking about suppression of information. I'm talking about negativity that can have an effect on morale. "Where has Anonymous gone? Will the D.C. event be the swan song for Anonymous? What will the gathering in D.C accomplish?" While these are someone's thoughts which they have every right to, we have a purpose here to take advantage of our best shot in the history of the cult to take it down. If and when a funeral march is appropriate we can have one. Until then I think we should stay focused on our goal and do what we can to help rather than hinder. We are all here to bring down a dangerous soul killing cult aren't we?
Ron Hubbard's the kind of person that would just as soon tell a lie as tell the truth.
--Me

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Benny's Friend
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Post by Benny's Friend » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:18 am

Again, I'm with you, Mewba. ^ ^ ^

Anons and critics alike will one day enjoy the place in history they are carving out for themselves.

This is no small thing.

This is radical upheaval.

Let's cheer one another on and celebrate our accomplishments.

Leave all that doomday talk to the other side where it rightfully belongs.
The more who speak out, the more who get out.

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Wieber
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Post by Wieber » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:29 am

Stats schmatz. We don't care 'bout no stinkin' stats!

By the way, scientology, how are your stats?
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

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Gumbythetruth
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Re: Don't do OSA's job for them.

Post by Gumbythetruth » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:37 pm

Mewba wrote:I think posts along the lines of "why are numbers going down?, why are people losing interest? Is Anon in flux? or fading into apathy?" Are not useful, are not true, and are in fact harmful to our cause. When I go onto public boards where the readers are discussing a magazine article about Anonymous there's usually a $cientologist posing as a public person saying those very things. Then they usually get exposed by an educated poster. OSA lurkers jump for joy when they read morale-killing posts like that here. Please don't do OSA's job for them.
The truth is, the numbers at our 7/12/08 event were down to 14, then 7 individuals. This is a down turn and has to be taken into consideration. To go from 200+ to 7 protesters bears questioning. To ask intelligent and factual questions is responsible activism.

To not ask questions is to allow activism to stagnant. To not ask intelligent questions ,is akin to sticking ones head in the sand and hoping for the best.

It is not my wish or intention to do OSA,S job for them. If intelligent questions are not asked, information is not gained. If information is not shared and gained. How does one succeed within his or her activism?

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