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Wieber
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 4675
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 Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:16 am Post subject:
Random Thoughts
Subject description: Not enough for a whole thread-doesn't fit into another thread-put it here
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Ideas sometimes come from reading threads that don't fit into those threads. Ideas sometimes come that aren't fully developed for an entire thread on their own. Rather than let them sit or forget about them put them in this thread.
I have a couple of things. After that take this thread in any direction you like without regard to what went before or what may come after.
If there are parts of scientology that people feel have been of benefit to them isn't it just possible that there are parts of psychiatry and parts of psychology from which people can derive benefits?
Use that as an argument with a person in scientology or who recently left it who says they've had wins or gains or whatever they've had.
I have figured what I feel is the reason for "keeping scientology working" and the demand for "exact duplication and application" of the "technology" of scientology. L. Ron Hubbard and now David Miscavige own the copyright on the materials of scientology and dianetics. To the degree that a person strays from "exact duplication and application" of the "technology" of scientology they stray from materials for which L. Ron Hubbard and now David Miscavige own the copyright for those materials.
Should a person involved with scientology do their own research, make their own discoveries and come up with their own therapeutic methods then L. Ron Hubbard and now David Miscavige will not own the copyright on the new materials and not be entitled to any remuneration for the use of those materials.
_________________
Reading List: http://www.worldcat.org./profiles/Wieber/lists/563909 scientology is a cult. -1 +1 "Then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi. scientology, check your six.
Last edited by Wieber on Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dr. Donna Shannon
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 555
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:36 am Post subject:
"PTS"
Subject description: The name says it all
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The concept of "PTS" seemed wrong to me from day 1. "PTS", or "POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCE" is named based on what impact the person or thing could have on $CIENTOLOGY, not on what's really going on with the person, and how the "tech" can help him. Supposedly a "PTS" person (i.e., per the definition, someone who could cause a problem or embarrassment for the "church") is connected to a "suppressive person" or "suppressive thing." As we "suppressives" know, this means anyone who has the balls to question things that don't seem right, and who at some point decides that he really IS able to trust his own perceptions; or even anyone who might want to DISCUSS things rationally with each other; or "suppressive things" that might take your attention away from the "church", like reading novels, flying airplanes, going on vacation with your family (somewhere besides FLAG!), riding horses, or even having a pet!
Let's say Dave notices that even though he is over the limit on his credit card, the "registrar" harasses him into spending even MORE on it; knowing that he really is getting into debt he can't repay, he feels bad. His friend Tom is sympathetic and Dave vows not to let them do it again. But then, it comes up in his session, and suddenly it turns out that he is "PTS" to Tom; after all, Tom is trying to stand in his way, and prevent him from "total spiritual freedom!" So, one by one, he disconnects from friends and family. He becomes more and more indoctrinated.
So really, "PTSness" is just another way of severing family ties, and ending friendships, so that the cult can enforce more and better mind control.
Why are Sea Org members sent on a "mission" for a year, and not allowed to be with their spouses? Why do the "execs" come in to Sea Org members' rooms IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT to send them "on a mission" or to the RPF? I know of three people in the Sea Org who told me that they got back to their rooms late at night after a long day (we're talking 2, 3 AM here, after getting sleep deprived for months or even YEARS in most cases) to find out that they had been "moved" to another room, with different roommates (of course, they had gotten along GREAT with the former ones)? For the exact same reason that a person is declared "PTS": TO SEVER THE TIES AND COMMUNICATION BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS, AND CREATE CONFUSION, SO THAT MORE CONTROL CAN BE EXERTED OVER THE PERSON, AND SO THAT HE WILL CONTINUE TO DOUBT HIMSELF AND HIS OWN PERCEPTIONS, AND WILL HAVE NO RECOURSE AS FAR AS FINDING SOMEONE WHO WILL HELP HIM.
The "church" of Scientology is a shameless con game. Every single thing done has the same goal- control over a person, especially his finances, and ultimately, his life and soul. It's a disgusting, slimy monster that must be squashed.
_________________
"There's a place up ahead and I'm goin'
just as fast as my feet can fly
Come away, come away if you're goin',
leave the sinkin' ship behind." -John C. Fogerty, Creedence Clearwater Revival |
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ZenWarrior
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 66
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject:
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The greatest of the human freedoms is to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances
Scientology's #1 dictum is exactly the opposite, to CONTROL it's members attitudes in EVERY set of circumstances
"PTS Handling" is just another one of Evil Incarnate Blubbard's methods of CONTROLLING his victims |
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SeeYaBye
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 260
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject:
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Yes, even when I was a staff member, PTS "tech" seemed pretty stupid. I would get a slight cold, but of course I am not allowed to take a decongestant (that is a drug, and so a no-no), and allowed only touch assists to help me get over it. And of course I am routed immediately to the ethics officer for PTS handling -- who am I being suppressed by? NOBODY!!! I just have a fricken cold. Of course, it is part of standard tech, so you quickly learn to tow the line.
Now that I mention it, touch assists in general were pretty lame. They never really did much to get over a sickness, but always had to have a cognition followed by the writing of a success story.
Ah yes, another item of lameness: writing success stories. You had to write these, and any resistance to writing your 20th one of the week, then it was off for review auditing, word clearing, or ethics handling. Again, you learned to tow the line.
And probably my all time favorite piece of BS technology in the "church": the Purification Rundown. This was a totally unscientific crock. It is based on LRH's discovery that traces of all drugs you take are trapped in your body's fat cells, which is complete science fiction -- oh yeah, he was a science fiction writer. If you believe that, then you deserve to purchase and do this wacko piece of pseudo science! Of course those who got sick doing the Purif, as it's inappropriately large doses of vitamins and minerals could easily bring on an ailment, would of course get PTS handling, and lots of touch assists -- of course followed by writing success stories!
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See Ya, Bye! |
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Dr. Donna Shannon
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 555
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:02 am Post subject:
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| SeeYaBye wrote: | Now that I mention it, touch assists in general were pretty lame. They never really did much to get over a sickness, but always had to have a cognition followed by the writing of a success story.
Ah yes, another item of lameness: writing success stories. You had to write these, and any resistance to writing your 20th one of the week, then it was off for review auditing, word clearing, or ethics handling. Again, you learned to tow the line. |
And of course, those "touch assists" were (at least, in my case) performed by a PAID AUDITOR, sometimes a Class XII, eating up hours; I remember the first one I ever had done; as a medical professional, I truly could not believe that they thought that crap would work. But, I thought, what the hell, I'll see. Well, it went on & on & on, & pretty soon I figured it out: better either say "THIS IS BS! I'M OUT OF HERE!" (boy do I wish I had done that), or you get with the program and pretend that the emperor really DOES have clothes, and have a "cognition" or say the condition "blew." Otherwise, you go for "review" which also eats up hours that YOU are paying for; wouldn't you think that "review" would mean that maybe THEY did something wrong? But WHO pays for it: SURPRISE!!! IT'S YOU!!!
And then, you write (almost the same) success story that everybody else writes. Two reasons, I believe, for this: (1) You are given hypnotic commands that have the phrases in them (ever notice that $cienos answers to "entheta" are canned, and almost word-for-word? Does the "patter drill" ring a bell? Or the "What do you do?" drill? HYPNOSIS!) (2) There really isn't much TO write, so you repeat the same old phrases "tools for a better life" "my thanks to LRH" yada yada yada.
Excuse me, I think I have to vomit now.
_________________
"There's a place up ahead and I'm goin'
just as fast as my feet can fly
Come away, come away if you're goin',
leave the sinkin' ship behind." -John C. Fogerty, Creedence Clearwater Revival |
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SeeYaBye
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 260
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:21 am Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Otherwise, you go for "review" which also eats up hours that YOU are paying for; wouldn't you think that "review" would mean that maybe THEY did something wrong? But WHO pays for it: SURPRISE!!! IT'S YOU!!! |
Why Dr. Donna, don't you know that you are responsible for your condition. If your ethics were in, you would not have pulled in having a sucky auditor, or that cold, or that stubbed toe. You are the one responsible for that! Oh my, you are all the way down in blame!!!
Doesn't it all just crack you up!!! I would laugh if it were not such a tragedy for so many good folks who have unwittingly bought into the big scam.
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Wieber
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 4675
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SeeYaBye
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 260
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject:
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Musical chairs or clubs. Really not that much of a difference. It's funny that some of the youtube videos are somewhat like foraging during the day. Excellent post!
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newclear
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 613
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject:
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The second thing I learned in Scientology was that everything costs money. Got a problem? Of course you do, everybody does. For a fee, we can fix it for you. Oh and by the way, you will die as a spiritual being unless you pay lots and lots of money for OT levels.
I never considered not writing a success story, no matter how lame the request, because that would cost me. How could anyone consider doing anything to generate a red tag, especially with a class 12 at $1K per hour? Some people must have money to burn.
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You're so screwed, so screwed, the Way to Slappiness is the way to flappiness. |
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xenuphobe
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject:
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| newclear wrote: | The second thing I learned in Scientology was that everything costs money. Got a problem? Of course you do, everybody does. For a fee, we can fix it for you. Oh and by the way, you will die as a spiritual being unless you pay lots and lots of money for OT levels.
I never considered not writing a success story, no matter how lame the request, because that would cost me. How could anyone consider doing anything to generate a red tag, especially with a class 12 at $1K per hour? Some people must have money to burn. |
I've never been in scn, but this concept bothers me quite a bit.
With normal religions, you give what you can or what you feel comfortable with, but get the same kind of teachings as everyone else. A normal religion lays out all their cards, and you can study and discover for FREE what it means in your life. You can talk about, criticize, discuss, research, hear varying opinions, etc.
It sounds like the CoS operates by giving you some wins for free or near-free, and then when you've become numbed a little, they put on the pressure by dangling these "advanced courses" in front of you. So you can't "advance" without paying. Discovering and discussing the advanced teachings early on would invite critical analysis, and the CoS *knows* that its teachings and theology are nothing more than the ramblings of a real bad drugged up sci-fi writer and con-man. No wonder they try to copyright, prosecute, and silence that kind of activity...and even bring up religious tolerance!
Another side sub-topic: I believe in my heart that folks like DM honestly know that the whole "religion" is nothing more than a money-making machine that has been protected from taxes. I also believe that while he is clearly a violent psychotic, he knows deep in his soul that the whole thing (xenu included) is a complete sham. I think he is too crafty to be brainwashed to the point of actually believing all that rubbish. |
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Wieber
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 4675
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:29 am Post subject:
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There is one aspect of a cult that is deeply insidious. I am still affected by it.
Cults are elitist.
The leader of the cult is the best person who ever existed at any time in the entire universe. That's the cult line.
After that all the members of the cult are the most intelligent, most aware, most capable, most ethical, most caring - most, most, most, most people in the world, on the planet, on earth, in the solar system, of all mankind, or of all something - maybe even of all nanny goats.
scientology does not have a monopoly on this. All the cults do this to their members.
As a cult member one gets an exalted, elitist opinion of themselves. They can't help it because this is fed to them continuously while they're in. When one gets out of the cult it is very difficult to come back to earth from that high.
It's hard to break. For one thing when you're going to be humble about yourself you will be the most humble person in the universe. Sigh!
_________________
Reading List: http://www.worldcat.org./profiles/Wieber/lists/563909 scientology is a cult. -1 +1 "Then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi. scientology, check your six. |
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opter
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 810
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:20 am Post subject:
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And as a cult member who is the most, most, most.... you cannot understand how most people cannot see the wisdom of the cult.
I attributed it to their reactive mind.
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Wieber
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 4675
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:08 am Post subject:
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From watching what's going on in the media, culturally, on the social networks and so on I have observed what looks to me like a rise in numbers in a particular sector of society. This particular sector of society is much like Anonymous in that it does not have any singular leadership.
I am not going to identify this particular sector. Although at this time it seems to not have any connection or relation to scientology as it becomes larger and begins to take on political influence organizational scientology may find itself suffering as a result. In other words organizational scientology will be blind sided as the metaphorical two by four strikes it upside its metaphorical head.
To those people in scientology lurking here and recording this stuff, if you want to conclude that I'm making this up as a broad generality in order to suppress you that's fine with me. I don't know how fast this movement is growing and it may be a while before its ineluctable influence becomes tangible. Meantime have a nice day. 
_________________
Reading List: http://www.worldcat.org./profiles/Wieber/lists/563909 scientology is a cult. -1 +1 "Then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi. scientology, check your six. |
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Dr. Donna Shannon
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 555
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:55 am Post subject:
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| caroline wrote: | Here's Hubbard on the family man.
From Lecture 10 December 1952 Flows: Patterns of Energy by L. Ron Hubbard who wrote:
Now, if you want to repair a marriage.. you can wreck marriages, as an auditor, with great ease. Just process one of the marital partners without processing the other one. The thing’ll fly out of balance like mad! And you’ve got to put it back in balance again somehow or other; you just keep an eye on it and make sure it doesn’t go too bad before you pick it up. |
How many of your problems that $cientology "solved" or helped you "handle" were created by them in the first place? Kirstie writes about how $cientology "saved her life-twice"---well, Kirstie, did you ever think about the fact that just MAYBE your drug addictions or whatever other problems you had might have been caused by Co$?
Just a thought.
_________________
"There's a place up ahead and I'm goin'
just as fast as my feet can fly
Come away, come away if you're goin',
leave the sinkin' ship behind." -John C. Fogerty, Creedence Clearwater Revival |
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Don Carlo
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4138
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject:
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| Donna, Chinese communists also separated husband and wife, and moved people far from their families and friends. The result weakened the person and the family, and gave the communist government more power over everyone. |
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